Joe Brolly

[general_lee]

I'd happily change flag anthem and whatever else to accommodate unionists in a united Ireland. The thing is a lot of the more staunch Unionists/Loyalists won't accept unification under any circumstances. You only have to look at the behaviour of these Neanderthals over the weekend in Ballynahinch. Plan without these morons. They can have their place in a unified Irish state but they don't deserve to be consulted if they continue to refuse to even consider talking about it. The more moderate and pragmatic unionists/loyalists should be welcomed with open arms. The Uber-bigot DUP types can f**k off back to Scotland for all I care. There is no talking to them.

[ardtole]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south. Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

<Sigh>
I see you still don't get the message so I'll spell it out for you.
The vast majority down here would be in favour of a UI. But we have enough problems of our own without having to put up with the antics of the lunatic fringe of SF.
If you and your ilk want to keep fighting the battle of the Boyne over and over again with the extreme loyalist mob who has as little time for compromise and dialogue as you have, them you can frig off and do your point scoring and coat trailing somewhere else.
It would appear that most of the Nationalist in NI are sensible people and know there is more to a UI than a mere majority of one in any referendum that might be held sometime in the future and  I, for one, would have no difficulty in welcoming them onboard.
It's the loolas fringe that concerns us down here. There's a serious possibility that there will be strong opposition from the loyalist faction as it is without you and your fellow-travellers stirring the shit for them.
I dunno why Charlie Flanagan didn't release any report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie and neither do you. It doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties.
You sort out your differences with themmuns first before you bring your problems down here.

I'm sorry Lar but that post absolutely stinks of "I'm alright Jack". You think it's up to Nationalists in the North to engage with the Unionists/ Loyalists? Do you not think the South has a part to play there as well?

I do indeed and I thought I made that clear. Everybody north and south wlil have to accept that it will take a lot of compromise to get a UI to work. As I see it, that includes all of the shinners coming onboard and leaving their eyeballing the loyalists behind them. As I see it, there are plenty of rational, reasonable members of that party  that work hard for the common good as it is and I vote SF down here.
Mary Lou is gaining a lot of support down here, especially from the older women, believe it or not! They are putting it up to the traditional parties and good luck to them but please leave the headballs behind if and when a UI comes about!

Who are the headballs in SF that you are talking about. I think SF have been quite quiet during the whole brexit episode, and if anything are sitting on the sideline letting the dup dig themselves into a deeper and deeper hole.

[BennyCake]

This is what amounts to politics here. Sit on your arse and wait for the other side to put their foot in their mouth, then get up off your arse and attack them.

[Lar Naparka]

This is what amounts to politics here. Sit on your arse and wait for the other side to put their foot in their mouth, then get up off your arse and attack them.

That's  exactly what I mean!

[yellowcard]

I think any concerted push for reunification has to be led by voices within civic nationalism rather than by SF so as to bring the middle ground along with it. There is a hardcore element of unionism and loyalism that would not countenance a UI under any circumstances whilst there is a similar element within republicanism who would vote the opposite. The poll will be won and lost by how the 20-30% in the middle vote. That is why a SF led push for reunification may become slightly off putting to some within that grouping. The GAA are made up of people from different political persuasions and whilst you could argue that politics should be left out of the GAA, I think their support would carry significant weight among soft nationalists.
 

[LooseCannon]

I know that Senator Mark Daly did up a report on it. I think that it's on this link.
https://senatormarkdaly.org/uniting-ireland-in-peace-prosperity/
He seems to be a good guy. He did a lot for the Irish Sign Language and the deaf community.

[marty34]

While I think the vast majority of people south of the border are in favour of a UI, most would be apprehensive of the inevitable consequences. The probability of a violent loyalist backlash has most of us very worried.
Right now we have major issues of our own, namely Health, Homelessness and Harris in no particular order.
If there should be a hard Brexit, there will be a renewal of hostilities along the border at the re-introduction of customs posts.
The cost of subsiding the people of NI to the tune of billions of euro annually for the foreseeable future is another mater folks down here won't welcome.
All in all, Marty & Co. should take nothing for granted about public sentiment down south.Maybe a good start would be for the Shinners to tone down their aggressive approach to the debate about unification.

Says the person who uses the terms 'issues of our own', 'folks down here' and 'down south'....very partitionist terminology indeed.

I see Charlie Flanagan on the politics show - pity the interviwer didn't ask him why he hasn't released the Crowley report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie.  It was at a border post.

The GAA, according to some on here, shouldn't get involved in politics but recently they voted to have the report released but Flanagan won't do it - I wonder why?  Oh that's right, he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties!

<Sigh>
I see you still don't get the message so I'll spell it out for you.
The vast majority down here would be in favour of a UI. But we have enough problems of our own without having to put up with the antics of the lunatic fringe of SF.
If you and your ilk want to keep fighting the battle of the Boyne over and over again with the extreme loyalist mob who has as little time for compromise and dialogue as you have, them you can frig off and do your point scoring and coat trailing somewhere else.
It would appear that most of the Nationalist in NI are sensible people and know there is more to a UI than a mere majority of one in any referendum that might be held sometime in the future and  I, for one, would have no difficulty in welcoming them onboard.
It's the loolas fringe that concerns us down here. There's a serious possibility that there will be strong opposition from the loyalist faction as it is without you and your fellow-travellers stirring the shit for them.
I dunno why Charlie Flanagan didn't release any report into the murder of Aidan McAnespie and neither do you. It doesn't necessarily follow that he doesn't give a toss about the people of the 6 counties.
You sort out your differences with themmuns first before you bring your problems down here.

Lol..how partitionist can you get - how many phrases can you put into a few paragraphs?

And then you use the classic 'ni'...a failed statelet.

Good job there was lads like Pearse and Connolly about in 1916 - they'd wouldn't be happy with you!

[marty34]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

Yeah NI didn't work. But lets face it the Republic was a bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. Both failed.
Everything needs put on the table. From the NHS to flags and anthems and provincial assemblys etc. Then only when an agreed pathway is concluded should the people be asked to vote.
I also don't agree with this line that Unionists won't listen so lets just have the vote. Peter Robinson has recently said that Unionists need to engage on this issue. They're stanch but not stupid.

Unionists won't listen - get real.  We see that in these Brexit dealings - they don't care about the economy.  It's all about the apron strings to 'the motherland'. 

Look back at E. Phonex's colum 'One This Day' in The Irish News and you can see they were rioting in the 1920's by trying to get an orange parade through a catholic area.  Discrimination in the 50's and 60's.  Murder squads in conjunction with the Brits in the 70's, 80's and 90's. 

Have a chat with them and let me know how you get on.

[Rossfan]

Would you have anything constructive to offer?

[BennyCake]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

Yeah NI didn't work. But lets face it the Republic was a bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. Both failed.
Everything needs put on the table. From the NHS to flags and anthems and provincial assemblys etc. Then only when an agreed pathway is concluded should the people be asked to vote.
I also don't agree with this line that Unionists won't listen so lets just have the vote. Peter Robinson has recently said that Unionists need to engage on this issue. They're stanch but not stupid.

Yes but Peter didn't say that when he was in politics.

While in politics, he had to think of his party, seat and big salary. Any unionist that tried to compromise was ostracised (Paisley and Trimble more recently). Some of them talk more sense when they hang up the boots. While in the seat, they stir up the bigotry in their voters.

[marty34]

Would you have anything constructive to offer?

I presume that's to me? This is a forum. People agree, people disagree.  Who says you have to be constructive?  This is an ongoing debate.

Re: something constructive.  Did I not say talking to unionists is a waste of time?  That's constructive i.e. don't waste your time trying to convince them.  Your mates Leo and Simon know what they're like now after dealing with them in the Brexit shenagians.  You can't deal with them!

[marty34]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

Yeah NI didn't work. But lets face it the Republic was a bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. Both failed.
Everything needs put on the table. From the NHS to flags and anthems and provincial assemblys etc. Then only when an agreed pathway is concluded should the people be asked to vote.
I also don't agree with this line that Unionists won't listen so lets just have the vote. Peter Robinson has recently said that Unionists need to engage on this issue. They're stanch but not stupid.

Yes but Peter didn't say that when he was in politics.

While in politics, he had to think of his party, seat and big salary. Any unionist that tried to compromise was ostracised (Paisley and Trimble more recently). Some of them talk more sense when they hang up the boots. While in the seat, they stir up the bigotry in their voters.

On the money BC!

[Kickham csc]

Surely the sales pitch has to make a 32 county Ireland much more appealing than our current setup. How this is achieved is the million dollar question. I wonder would Joe be willing to have a new flag and a new anthem to effectively wipe the slate clean and start afresh? What would be the thoughts of those options? From living in the North I find our Irish flag is used almost as a weapon to act as a deterrent towards Unionists. For a UI to work we will have to embrace and promote the culture of every man woman and child on the island. Unionists need to be shown that a UI for them will not be what NI was for nationalists.

Does the bully think there's a problem with what he's doing? No.

As far as unionists are concerned, nationalists in the north were never discriminated against or denied anything. They defend gerrymandering, collusion, internment etc etc. For them, NI works and always has done. Well, it did up until the GFA when they had to try and share with those pesky fenians. And look how that worked out.

Yeah NI didn't work. But lets face it the Republic was a bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. Both failed.
Everything needs put on the table. From the NHS to flags and anthems and provincial assemblys etc. Then only when an agreed pathway is concluded should the people be asked to vote.
I also don't agree with this line that Unionists won't listen so lets just have the vote. Peter Robinson has recently said that Unionists need to engage on this issue. They're stanch but not stupid.

Yes but Peter didn't say that when he was in politics.

While in politics, he had to think of his party, seat and big salary. Any unionist that tried to compromise was ostracised (Paisley and Trimble more recently). Some of them talk more sense when they hang up the boots. While in the seat, they stir up the bigotry in their voters.

On the money BC!

Bit of a crazy statement there. Rome shithole

and the last bit, you contradicted yourself.

bit of a Rome shithole up until recently as well. does this not mean that the Republic is a success.

The republic has not only survived; a civil war and the usual 1-2 generations of post civil war politics, recessions and mass immigration, church influence, but it has developed to a modern society that has been extremely innovative in establish an industrial business sector, tourism business sector, agriculture business sector, and more recently a financial business sector. If the republic has failed, god help the north

[BennyCake]

Church influence, mass emigration and recession didn't stop at the border. Throw in 30+ years of the troubles and British state collusion/shoot to kill/internment etc etc.

While not meant as a partitionist post, just pointing out someone's fortune to be born on a certain side of the border.

Yes the north is a political cesspit which in turn influences economic affairs. Had the north a stable situation, things might be so different. And any prosperity it may have is all balanced on a knife edge. Brexit or a border poll, and the house of cards all comes tumbling down. The south doesn't live on such a precipice.

[seafoid]

Church influence, mass emigration and recession didn't stop at the border. Throw in 30+ years of the troubles and British state collusion/shoot to kill/internment etc etc.

While not meant as a partitionist post, just pointing out someone's fortune to be born on a certain side of the border.

Yes the north is a political cesspit which in turn influences economic affairs. Had the north a stable situation, things might be so different. And any prosperity it may have is all balanced on a knife edge. Brexit or a border poll, and the house of cards all comes tumbling down. The south doesn't live on such a precipice.

The border was pretty random
I think there were 3 options. Tyrone was only in one of them
What was unforgivable about the original elite of NI was the insistence that the people weren't Irish. They hated anything Irish
FFS