Underage Grades

[shark]

Also please explain the science behind "my club needs to stay at u18 level".

It's at best intuition. There's no proof.

I'd expect you've had a handful or two of lads in your club's history who struggled at under 17, then went on to play senior football. We've all had them. But lads like this very rarely skip reserve football as a building block.

If I thought that "reserve football" or the lower league divisions were going to be run in a much more coherent manner, with more games, then that would certainly help change my opinion. But that is not going to happen, not through a lack of trying, but a lack of space in the calendar. There are not many counties that treat football and hurling equally - but I'm in one of them. So you lose 50% of weekends straight off the bat.

My club needs u-18 as those young lads will then have more football. The 19 year olds don't get near as many games as them, unless they are good enough to make the senior team. Most won't be at that stage. My club is a large urban club with plenty of numbers. It's not easy to break in to the senior team as a young lad. We've done really well at player retention in the past 10/15 years thankfully, and have lots of players on our senior team who didn't break through until their early 20's. I can't prove that we would have lost many of them had they lost a year of underage - but I feel that we would have.

I get that the odd superstar may have more games as a result. But the majority of young lads need more games - not less.

[LeoMc]

A couple of thoughts on this.
1. Having u17 at inter-County and u18 at club works well imo. The lads who make County minors are not necessarily the main men on their club team, a great thing to keep pressure off and egos in check.
2. School years up to u12.5 work well for keeping boys with their friends but I like to see it back to u14, u16 after that as it means some lads have a good birthday for school football while others have a good birthday for club football. It means different lads get to be the leaders in different environments.

[manfromdelmonte]

I like the even age groups up to June/July, give those players a competition then switch to odd ages for rest of year. It also brings Feile to a nice conclusion. That way each age get a chance playing in their 'stronger' year and the 18 year olds can play adult if they want.

Young players don't get enough games. That's one of the biggest issues.

[lurganblue]

I like the even age groups up to June/July, give those players a competition then switch to odd ages for rest of year. It also brings Feile to a nice conclusion. That way each age get a chance playing in their 'stronger' year and the 18 year olds can play adult if they want.

Young players don't get enough games. That's one of the biggest issues.

Coaching under 10s last year and between go games fixtures midweek and a plethora of blitz's most weekends it actually was difficult to fit in training sessions to help develop skills.

I realise this is different to other age categories.

[This Years Model]

Is none of ye involved in Fixtures?

I think U13/15/17 makes so much sense.

Separating minor from adult opens up the whole club fixture calendar, where you can now have clubs playing minor and adult together on the same weekend as there's no clash for players. Even better for a dual county.

An U17 is most likely not in his Leaving Cert year (in the Republic), whereas an U18 is.

At the other end, kids are starting younger and younger, and by the time they get to 12 years old, they are sick of Go Games, where every game is a draw, and by that stage they want to start competing. Starting competitions a year earlier at U13 is a good thing. My county have changed the whole way down, so Go Games is now U7/9/11 and I think it works very well.

My 2c ...

[bigarsedkeeper]

I like the even age groups up to June/July, give those players a competition then switch to odd ages for rest of year. It also brings Feile to a nice conclusion. That way each age get a chance playing in their 'stronger' year and the 18 year olds can play adult if they want.

Young players don't get enough games. That's one of the biggest issues.

Coaching under 10s last year and between go games fixtures midweek and a plethora of blitz's most weekends it actually was difficult to fit in training sessions to help develop skills.

I realise this is different to other age categories.

I'd agree with that. Someone pointed out in our club the U10s played more matches/blitzes than most other teams in the club seniors included.

If the same effort was put into fixtures at 14-17 maybe there wouldn't be the same drop off.

[Dinny Breen]

If clubs focused more on participation than winning numbers falling away would decrease.

1. County boards should run u13, 14, u15, u16 and 17 leagues championships at the same time. Stop sending kids up age grades. I know talented kids that were playing u15 in Spring, u16 and minor in the summer and then u17 in Autumn/Winter. Madness.
2. For clubs that can't play at each age grade focus on the grades where you have numbers but alway make u17 your priority, for e.g if you have 18 u16s but only 7 u17s, you still play u17s only even though your u16 team are all of age.
3. If you don't have an age grade for a kid, let him transfer one year out, e.g. you have a 13 year old but no u13 or u14 team then let him transfer out for one year to another clubs or u13 or u14 team only
4. Look at introducing u18.5 and u20.5 age grades, this helps capture the kids who were July to December and missed out because of relative age affect.
5. If your club doesn't have a an u20.5 team they can play dual status with another club i.e. play adult with your club and u20.5 only with another club.
6. Finally remove all coaches egos, it's ok to lose, stop prioritising winning over loosing. If you have a panel of 25, all 25 get a least half a game.

We as adults are too quick to impose our values on young players, majority of kids play sport to have fun, to be with friends, to belong.....winning is way down the list. When kids lose games they might show disappointment, but that disappointment is not in the losing but the in the belief that they have let down their coaches and parents.

Finally abandon all development squads from u13 to u15. Very few of these kids go on to make it and a lot just give up when cut.

[SkillfulBill]

Dinny you make some excellent points in this post. The one however that I would strongly disagree with is the element by which you seem to put a lot of emphasis on not instilling a winning ethos into the underage system.  I personally think that by taking this element out you begin to introduce a 5 a side sunday league mentality into underage which will ultimately take the edge of some players. My experience is that this competitive nature is what drives most youth players into senior football. I suppose it comes down to what clubs want do the want to provide a sporting outlet in their community for youth or are they in the business of creating success at senior level. My club experience is that the latter is the over arching reasons for clubs having youth teams.

[Taylor]

Is none of ye involved in Fixtures?

I think U13/15/17 makes so much sense.

Separating minor from adult opens up the whole club fixture calendar, where you can now have clubs playing minor and adult together on the same weekend as there's no clash for players. Even better for a dual county.

An U17 is most likely not in his Leaving Cert year (in the Republic), whereas an U18 is.

At the other end, kids are starting younger and younger, and by the time they get to 12 years old, they are sick of Go Games, where every game is a draw, and by that stage they want to start competing. Starting competitions a year earlier at U13 is a good thing. My county have changed the whole way down, so Go Games is now U7/9/11 and I think it works very well.

My 2c ...

What would your recommendation be for the kids who just fall outside the under 17 group?

As it stands you would have to put them into senior (which the majority arent even close to being fit for) or ask them to train all year for a few under 20/21 games in the Winter?

[Keyser soze]

I like the even age groups up to June/July, give those players a competition then switch to odd ages for rest of year. It also brings Feile to a nice conclusion. That way each age get a chance playing in their 'stronger' year and the 18 year olds can play adult if they want.

Young players don't get enough games. That's one of the biggest issues.

Last year burnout was the issue!!

[This Years Model]

What would your recommendation be for the kids who just fall outside the under 17 group?

As it stands you would have to put them into senior (which the majority arent even close to being fit for) or ask them to train all year for a few under 20/21 games in the Winter?

Fair enough. Ideally, they should be starting with the adults at Junior or whatever. We all did it back in the day, and it was an education! ... And we did it at 16! I accept there's a gap, but adult clubs should be bending over backwards to accommodate lads when they come out of minor/U17 ... if they've made it that far, they're footballers of some level of ability and interest. The clubs need to look after them, not waste time whining about Co Board or Croke Park.

As it happens, in Offaly the U20 club football is in early Spring, so your 18-yr-old is straight into it. It's straight knock-out, so it's short, but yes, any 18-year-old should be training and playing with the adults. He's been playing for 10+ years, let him off ....

[oakleaflad]

What would your recommendation be for the kids who just fall outside the under 17 group?

As it stands you would have to put them into senior (which the majority arent even close to being fit for) or ask them to train all year for a few under 20/21 games in the Winter?

Fair enough. Ideally, they should be starting with the adults at Junior or whatever. We all did it back in the day, and it was an education! ... And we did it at 16! I accept there's a gap, but adult clubs should be bending over backwards to accommodate lads when they come out of minor/U17 ... if they've made it that far, they're footballers of some level of ability and interest. The clubs need to look after them, not waste time whining about Co Board or Croke Park.

There is a world of difference between the physicality of adult football now and say even 10 or 15 years ago. Some players just out of U17 are nowhere near ready for it physically and it shouldn't be their only option for football.

[This Years Model]

If a club can't put out two adult teams, then they've got fundamental problems, and that's maybe another issue. The thirtysomethings should be hanging in there for the sake of the club to keep the thing rolling. And yes, any 18-year-old should be able to join the Junior panel. Why wouldn't he? If he does need to be minded in training, fine ... the club and team managers should be mature enough to handle something like that. Any 18-year-old who wants to keep playing football is only itching to play with the big boys surely?

[Taylor]

If a club can't put out two adult teams, then they've got fundamental problems, and that's maybe another issue. The thirtysomethings should be hanging in there for the sake of the club to keep the thing rolling. And yes, any 18-year-old should be able to join the Junior panel. Why wouldn't he? If he does need to be minded in training, fine ... the club and team managers should be mature enough to handle something like that. Any 18-year-old who wants to keep playing football is only itching to play with the big boys surely?

Fundamental problems?
Can I ask how many members are in the club you are in?

To field two teams means you need at least 40 adult players - this simply isnt viable in many many areas.

So what we are saying is that if a club cannot field two teams every 17 year old+ is expected to play away with the senior team regardless of their physical development.

With some people thinking this way it is no wonder many clubs voices are being ignored

[bigarsedkeeper]

If a club can't put out two adult teams, then they've got fundamental problems, and that's maybe another issue. The thirtysomethings should be hanging in there for the sake of the club to keep the thing rolling. And yes, any 18-year-old should be able to join the Junior panel. Why wouldn't he? If he does need to be minded in training, fine ... the club and team managers should be mature enough to handle something like that. Any 18-year-old who wants to keep playing football is only itching to play with the big boys surely?

That's ideally what you want, a reserve/junior team made up of a mix of young lads coming up, thirty something senior players giving it you their last couple of years and then your eternal reserve players. Old fellas look after the young lads and brings them into the scene nicely. It just doesn't happen anymore though, young lads don't see reserve football as a way in to senior and older lads are holding on at senior longer and retiring out of football completely. It takes a big panel of players to keep 2 teams going throughout a full year.