The ulster rugby trial

[Franko]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

On the initial evidence, including her testimony, I was inclined to believe that a situation she consented to got out of hand, and she immediately regretted it and got swept along by events.
As the evidence from witnesses etc came out, I was more inclined to think that was the case, particularly the eye witness testimony.
However, based on information supplied here about 'myths' regarding rape,  and more importantly by the just very unconvincing extracts from the police statements, I have come to start believing that this may in fact have been a "Bloke" situation, where the girl was collateral, and her consent was not the most important thing in the world to them. I think it's likely she was, in fact, raped.


The only thing I am uneasy about is the image the witness portrayed about Olding receiving oral, with his hands by his side, and no sign of any coercion.

If I was on the jury I'd certainly be leaning towards guilty, but am I beyond doubt? I don't envy them.

I'm in exactly the same position.  The evidence from the lads' interviews has been less than convincing.

[screenexile]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

On the initial evidence, including her testimony, I was inclined to believe that a situation she consented to got out of hand, and she immediately regretted it and got swept along by events.
As the evidence from witnesses etc came out, I was more inclined to think that was the case, particularly the eye witness testimony.
However, based on information supplied here about 'myths' regarding rape,  and more importantly by the just very unconvincing extracts from the police statements, I have come to start believing that this may in fact have been a "Bloke" situation, where the girl was collateral, and her consent was not the most important thing in the world to them. I think it's likely she was, in fact, raped.


The only thing I am uneasy about is the image the witness portrayed about Olding receiving oral, with his hands by his side, and no sign of any coercion.

If I was on the jury I'd certainly be leaning towards guilty, but am I beyond doubt? I don't envy them.

I'm in exactly the same position.  The evidence from the lads' interviews has been less than convincing.

At this point I haven't a clue. . . there are holes in the lads testimonies and there are holes in the girls testimony so it's coming down to a he said she said for me.

In that case can you convict someone to go to jail? Can you let 2 possible rapists back on the street?

Also as has been stated more than a few times. We're getting 2-3 lines of testimony every 20 minutes so we're missing a lot of what's going on.

[longballin]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

On the initial evidence, including her testimony, I was inclined to believe that a situation she consented to got out of hand, and she immediately regretted it and got swept along by events.
As the evidence from witnesses etc came out, I was more inclined to think that was the case, particularly the eye witness testimony.
However, based on information supplied here about 'myths' regarding rape,  and more importantly by the just very unconvincing extracts from the police statements, I have come to start believing that this may in fact have been a "Bloke" situation, where the girl was collateral, and her consent was not the most important thing in the world to them. I think it's likely she was, in fact, raped.


The only thing I am uneasy about is the image the witness portrayed about Olding receiving oral, with his hands by his side, and no sign of any coercion.

If I was on the jury I'd certainly be leaning towards guilty, but am I beyond doubt? I don't envy them.

I'm in exactly the same position.  The evidence from the lads' interviews has been less than convincing.

At this point I haven't a clue. . . there are holes in the lads testimonies and there are holes in the girls testimony so it's coming down to a he said she said for me.

In that case can you convict someone to go to jail? Can you let 2 possible rapists back on the street?

Also as has been stated more than a few times. We're getting 2-3 lines of testimony every 20 minutes so we're missing a lot of what's going on.

Possible isn't enough for a conviction though. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high bar

[TabClear]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

On the initial evidence, including her testimony, I was inclined to believe that a situation she consented to got out of hand, and she immediately regretted it and got swept along by events.
As the evidence from witnesses etc came out, I was more inclined to think that was the case, particularly the eye witness testimony.
However, based on information supplied here about 'myths' regarding rape,  and more importantly by the just very unconvincing extracts from the police statements, I have come to start believing that this may in fact have been a "Bloke" situation, where the girl was collateral, and her consent was not the most important thing in the world to them. I think it's likely she was, in fact, raped.


The only thing I am uneasy about is the image the witness portrayed about Olding receiving oral, with his hands by his side, and no sign of any coercion.

If I was on the jury I'd certainly be leaning towards guilty, but am I beyond doubt? I don't envy them.

Thats bang on where I am based on my admittedly brief knowledge of the published testimony.

One thing that does not make sense to me in the guys testimony was that none of them had condoms. I am open to correction here but i think both jackson and olding made reference to this which seems slightly strange, especially given it was Jackson's house. I know there are  reasons why this might be  the case but I know that if I went into our club dressing room and told the 15 or so 20-25 years olds that i would pay £100 for a condom there would be no shortage of takers.

[Milltown Row2]

What are condoms?

[sid waddell]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

And I live in Connacht.

[sid waddell]

What are condoms?

French rugby captain in the 1980s.

[Milltown Row2]

What are condoms?

French rugby captain in the 1980s.

Mates!!

[sid waddell]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

On the initial evidence, including her testimony, I was inclined to believe that a situation she consented to got out of hand, and she immediately regretted it and got swept along by events.
As the evidence from witnesses etc came out, I was more inclined to think that was the case, particularly the eye witness testimony.
However, based on information supplied here about 'myths' regarding rape,  and more importantly by the just very unconvincing extracts from the police statements, I have come to start believing that this may in fact have been a "Bloke" situation, where the girl was collateral, and her consent was not the most important thing in the world to them. I think it's likely she was, in fact, raped.


The only thing I am uneasy about is the image the witness portrayed about Olding receiving oral, with his hands by his side, and no sign of any coercion.

If I was on the jury I'd certainly be leaning towards guilty, but am I beyond doubt? I don't envy them.

The bit I've bolded is pretty much where I am.

I don't believe they had reasonable belief that she was consenting, they just assumed she was consenting due to their arrogance and sense of power, entitlement and invincibility, fuelled by alcohol, allied to a "blokish" ignorance of the concepts of consent and boundaries.

[AQMP]

Is it only the Connacht posters and Sid who think the boys are guilty ?

No.  In my gut I'm leaning towards guilty, but my head tells me the prosecution might not make the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold and they'll be acquitted.

[shezam]

Text messages exchange here https://twitter.com/ConorGallaghe_r

[Milltown Row2]

Guilty of being complete dicks... What normally happens in these type cases is that someone normally comes out of the woodwork claiming to have been raped also.. Any news on that?

[Minder]

Jesus they come across as some shower of wankers, "why are we all such legends ?"

[general_lee]

Jesus they come across as some shower of w**kers, "why are we all such legends ?"

I'd say every group whatsapp would be the same. Young fellas in their early 20s get on that way.

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus they come across as some shower of w**kers, "why are we all such legends ?"

Proper locker room stuff and standard chat on the whatsapps and snapchats and whatever else is out there for young bucks on the tear..

23 year olds at the time playing for Ulster and Ireland, they must have been getting their egos stroked most nights they were out..

No excuse BTW and some of the evidence from the police interviews will be making them sweat in their seats this week, maybe one or two from the jury were sitting on the fence will have stepped over it now