Paul Kimmage article about Athenry club dispute.

Started by Asal Mor, May 07, 2018, 12:14:02 AM

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Asal Mor

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Anyone else think this was way out of order on the Sindo's part?

The club handled the situation terribly and it's unacceptable to use that language when coaching u-12s, but tarnishing the name of two volunteers and sensationalising this matter with a journalist who doesn't seem to like or care about the GAA, was wrong of the Sindo imo.

I don't think O' Rourke, Brolly or Dermot Crowe would have touched this. Be interested to hear Brolly's take on it.

sid waddell

Quote from: Asal Mor on May 07, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Anyone else think this was way out of order on the Sindo's part?

The club handled the situation terribly and it's unacceptable to use that language when coaching u-12s, but tarnishing the name of two volunteers and sensationalising this matter with a journalist who doesn't seem to like or care about the GAA, was wrong of the Sindo imo.

I don't think O' Rourke, Brolly or Dermot Crowe would have touched this. Be interested to hear Brolly's take on it.

No.

A frequently used definition of news is that it is something that somebody, somewhere doesn't want people to know.

Two mentors broke GAA rules. That in itself is not the real story. While what the mentors did was against the rules, what they did were not, shall we say, hanging offences.

Had the mentors and the club held their hands up, admitted their mistakes and taken their medicine, as it were, this would not have become a story.

The problem, and what makes the story newsworthy, is the institutional closing of ranks by the club.

This involved:
i) Refusing to properly deal with the matter internally.
ii) A clear attempt to intimidate the complainants and the panel conducting the disciplinary hearing.
iii) A refusal to accept the outcome of the disciplinary hearing and attempt to spin an untrue version of such to the public.

There is something endemic within Irish institutions across all areas of society that leads to lack of accountability, denials and covering up. Institutional closing of ranks.

And it always, always, always makes things worse for the institution in question.




Syferus

Quote from: Asal Mor on May 07, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Anyone else think this was way out of order on the Sindo's part?

The club handled the situation terribly and it's unacceptable to use that language when coaching u-12s, but tarnishing the name of two volunteers and sensationalising this matter with a journalist who doesn't seem to like or care about the GAA, was wrong of the Sindo imo.

I don't think O' Rourke, Brolly or Dermot Crowe would have touched this. Be interested to hear Brolly's take on it.

You really don't want to be starting another thread about a fûcking cover up.

seafoid

I think centre half back is the ultimate risk manager. You anticipate problems and you smother them so nothing blows up. And they forgot that .

Junior C, Jeff
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Asal Mor

Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2018, 01:07:47 AM
Quote from: Asal Mor on May 07, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Anyone else think this was way out of order on the Sindo's part?

The club handled the situation terribly and it's unacceptable to use that language when coaching u-12s, but tarnishing the name of two volunteers and sensationalising this matter with a journalist who doesn't seem to like or care about the GAA, was wrong of the Sindo imo.

I don't think O' Rourke, Brolly or Dermot Crowe would have touched this. Be interested to hear Brolly's take on it.

No.

A frequently used definition of news is that it is something that somebody, somewhere doesn't want people to know.

Two mentors broke GAA rules. That in itself is not the real story. While what the mentors did was against the rules, what they did were not, shall we say, hanging offences.

Had the mentors and the club held their hands up, admitted their mistakes and taken their medicine, as it were, this would not have become a story.

The problem, and what makes the story newsworthy, is the institutional closing of ranks by the club.

This involved:
i) Refusing to properly deal with the matter internally.
ii) A clear attempt to intimidate the complainants and the panel conducting the disciplinary hearing.
iii) A refusal to accept the outcome of the disciplinary hearing and attempt to spin an untrue version of such to the public.

There is something endemic within Irish institutions across all areas of society that leads to lack of accountability, denials and covering up. Institutional closing of ranks.

And it always, always, always makes things worse for the institution in question.
The club handled it disastrously. No argument there.

Often those who complain most about volunteer coaches give precisely zero of their own time and expect the team to revolve around their child. I don't know if that's the case here but in the vast majority of these cases the complaining parent is a selfish pain in the hole and the coach is trying their best. Anyone who coaches underage teams these days would say that the parents are more challenging than the kids.

seafoid

This was in the Financial Times a while ago. How to deal with a clusterfuck :

"It is not complicated.
Any half-competent flak knows the drill.
Own the bad news.
Make sure colleagues and partners are prepared;
go public quickly, clearly, and completely;
be accountable; be available. Candour is a sign of respect."

The father may be a gobshite. But manage that. Don't start the omerta.
It is very unfortunate.


"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

thewobbler

I doubt there's a club administrator in any sport across Ireland who would, after reading that article, would anything but disdain for Paul Kimmage.

It's a borderline impossible situation as it stands being the facilitator of competitive leisure activities for the the children of inward-thinking, self-centred, paranoid and emotionally unstable parents, without Kimmage highlighting that it's possible to make local grievances into a national issue.

Moreover it now seems possible to taint an entire club and indeed the entire Association, because of a personal issue.... so long as you get the "right" journalist on the phone. Disgusting journalism if you ask me.

Farrandeelin

Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2018, 09:09:44 AM
I doubt there's a club administrator in any sport across Ireland who would, after reading that article, would anything but disdain for Paul Kimmage.

It's a borderline impossible situation as it stands being the facilitator of competitive leisure activities for the the children of inward-thinking, self-centred, paranoid and emotionally unstable parents, without Kimmage highlighting that it's possible to make local grievances into a national issue.

Moreover it now seems possible to taint an entire club and indeed the entire Association, because of a personal issue.... so long as you get the "right" journalist on the phone. Disgusting journalism if you ask me.

Totally agree wobbler. It is wrong to f**k a child out of it, but no need to bring it to the national press. As someone said parents can be more difficult to deal with.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

WT4E

As a football fan just looking in I would have lost alot of respect for the Athenry club after reading that. Handled very badly from start to finish!!!

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 09:42:45 AM
As a football fan just looking in I would have lost alot of respect for the Athenry club after reading that. Handled very badly from start to finish!!!
To be honest i dont think anyone comes out of that article particularly well.
Poorly handled by the club and Kimmage comes across as  a sanctimonious p***k (not for the first time)
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Owen Brannigan

This is a typical piece by Kimmage. He sees this issue differently from those connected to the GAA and he gives full details of his research and after his usual preamble gives it warts and all.

You might not like the Sindo or Kimmage but you miss the point by leaping to attack him for bringing the issue to a platform beyond the news in the West where partisan views on the issue have already been played out.

The issue as reported is just another microcosm of life in Ireland.

Nothing new, nothing learned from the past and again the organisation, it's reputation and members in key positions are more important than making things right. It is easier to destroy reputations of individuals who complain than face up to challenging behaviour of a few.

The rules are for others, behaviour from years gone by continues with the blind eye in use and worst of all child protection regulations and guidelines and training programmes are for others with no relevance to 'us' because we are above them.

There is nothing surprising in this article or issue but those within GAA hierarchy should be really worried that it is being replicated across the country and an article giving a platform to its reporting will encourage others to make similar challenges and administrators to react in a similar way.

straightred

Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 07, 2018, 09:39:17 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2018, 09:09:44 AM
I doubt there's a club administrator in any sport across Ireland who would, after reading that article, would anything but disdain for Paul Kimmage.

It's a borderline impossible situation as it stands being the facilitator of competitive leisure activities for the the children of inward-thinking, self-centred, paranoid and emotionally unstable parents, without Kimmage highlighting that it's possible to make local grievances into a national issue.

Moreover it now seems possible to taint an entire club and indeed the entire Association, because of a personal issue.... so long as you get the "right" journalist on the phone. Disgusting journalism if you ask me.

Totally agree wobbler. It is wrong to f**k a child out of it, but no need to bring it to the national press. As someone said parents can be more difficult to deal with.

When you're in a hole stop digging.
They were clearly in a hole and rather than fix it they made it a lot worse. The mass meeting is the bit that annoys me the most. That's not on.

Naming the coaches is also wrong - they are volunteers and that shouldn't be forgotten. This article is a timely reminder for those of us that do coach. I've done the courses etc and thankfully haven't broken any association rules but i have had to deal with difficult and testing parents. Its hard going at times.

The victims here are the kids. They need to be playing and all concerned need to be big enough to find a solution to allow that to happen

thewobbler

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 07, 2018, 10:05:06 AM
This is a typical piece by Kimmage. He sees this issue differently from those connected to the GAA and he gives full details of his research and after his usual preamble gives it warts and all.

You might not like the Sindo or Kimmage but you miss the point by leaping to attack him for bringing the issue to a platform beyond the news in the West where partisan views on the issue have already been played out.

The issue as reported is just another microcosm of life in Ireland.


Well if it is being presented as life in Ireland it is incorrect.

Ireland isn't the issue. The GAA isn't the issue.

It is life across the world for competitive juvenile sporting clubs.

longballin

A lot of nutters make their way into managing underage teams and think they have landed the county job. Is about enjoyment and developing young players. If there was a coach fucing and blinding about my boys I'd ask him to wise up.I have seen it though thankfully not at my club

clonadmad

Quote from: Asal Mor on May 07, 2018, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 07, 2018, 01:07:47 AM
Quote from: Asal Mor on May 07, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Anyone else think this was way out of order on the Sindo's part?

The club handled the situation terribly and it's unacceptable to use that language when coaching u-12s, but tarnishing the name of two volunteers and sensationalising this matter with a journalist who doesn't seem to like or care about the GAA, was wrong of the Sindo imo.

I don't think O' Rourke, Brolly or Dermot Crowe would have touched this. Be interested to hear Brolly's take on it.

No.

A frequently used definition of news is that it is something that somebody, somewhere doesn't want people to know.

Two mentors broke GAA rules. That in itself is not the real story. While what the mentors did was against the rules, what they did were not, shall we say, hanging offences.

Had the mentors and the club held their hands up, admitted their mistakes and taken their medicine, as it were, this would not have become a story.

The problem, and what makes the story newsworthy, is the institutional closing of ranks by the club.

This involved:
i) Refusing to properly deal with the matter internally.
ii) A clear attempt to intimidate the complainants and the panel conducting the disciplinary hearing.
iii) A refusal to accept the outcome of the disciplinary hearing and attempt to spin an untrue version of such to the public.

There is something endemic within Irish institutions across all areas of society that leads to lack of accountability, denials and covering up. Institutional closing of ranks.

And it always, always, always makes things worse for the institution in question.
The club handled it disastrously. No argument there.

Often those who complain most about volunteer coaches give precisely zero of their own time and expect the team to revolve around their child. I don't know if that's the case here but in the vast majority of these cases the complaining parent is a selfish pain in the hole and the coach is trying their best. Anyone who coaches underage teams these days would say that the parents are more challenging than the kids.


One of the parents has given more than enough of his time and service to both Athenry and Galway.