The Haas Talks

Started by Orior, September 20, 2013, 11:41:37 AM

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glens abu

Quote from: give her dixie on February 25, 2014, 12:38:20 AM
Exactly folks. There is too much money coming from the British teat in Downing street for anyone to stop sucking and say hey, hold on a moment.

Sure you can gather up all your support and put a big hole in it in May by voting all the 1798 men in to the councils ???

AQMP

Dealing With The Past??...

Judge Rules That Alleged Hyde Park Bomber Should Not Stand Trial

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/25/ira-hyde-park-bombing-1982-attack-john-downey

A man accused of murdering four soldiers in an IRA bomb attack in London's Hyde Park in 1982 has walked free from court after a judge ruled his trial should not go ahead because of British government assurances he received under the Good Friday peace agreement.

John Anthony Downey, 62, from County Donegal, had pleaded not guilty to the murder of four soldiers from the Household Cavalry who died in the blast on 20 July 1982 along with seven of their horses.

The bomb had been concealed in a car and was detonated as the soldiers rode past on ceremonial duties.

The case against Downey is understood to have relied heavily on disputed fingerprint evidence from car parks where the car was parked before the attack.

Downey's lawyers argued that he should not face trial because he was one of 187 IRA suspects who had been sent letters giving "a clear and unequivocal assurance" that they were no longer wanted by any police force in the UK. The assurance had been given by the British government in return for the IRA's promise to decommission its arms. During the Old Bailey hearings, the prosecution argued that there was evidence that Downey's letter had been sent in error.

The families of the bombing victims said they felt "devastatingly let down" after the prosecution collapsed.

The relatives of the Household Cavalry soldiers Corporal-Major Roy Bright, Lieutenant Anthony "Denis" Daly, Trooper Simon Tipper and Lance-Corporal Jeffrey Young said they "never ceased in their desire to see that justice be done".

In a statement, they said there had been a "monumental blunder" behind the judgment that lay "at the feet of the Police Service of Northern Ireland".

"The end result is that ... the full chain of those terrible events will never be put in the public domain for justice to be seen to be done. The torment for the families will be ongoing, knowing that John Downey will be returning to his family and life will be normal for him.

"Our men signed up to serve their country in good faith, yet now it seems that that faith was not supported by those within certain areas of authority. The families now seek a degree of accountability for this catastrophic failure. Two opportunities are known where the error in the issuing of this letter could have been raised, yet nothing was done. Had such an error been raised, it is recognised as being of such importance that it would immediately have required action and would not have gone uncorrected. However, on both occasions nothing was done."

Last week, at the Old Bailey in London, Mr Justice Sweeney ruled that the need to prosecute those accused of serious crime was outweighed by "the public interest in holding officials of the state to promises they have made in full understanding of what is involved in the bargain".

After a meeting on Tuesday morning with Dominic Grieve, the attorney general, the prosecution told the high court in London it would not appeal against the ruling, and reporting restrictions were lifted.

Downey is accused of planting the bomb, which exploded as soldiers from the Blues and Royals were riding in full regalia on their daily route from their barracks to Buckingham Palace.

Daly, 23, Tipper, 19, and Young, 19, died instantly, while Bright, 36, died of his injuries three days later.

Two hours later, a second bomb exploded under a bandstand two miles away in Regent's Park, killing seven soldiers with the Royal Green Jackets band.

The devices were among a series of IRA bombs that exploded in London over a four-year period, killing 20 people and injuring almost 200. The Hyde Park blast caused particular outrage, not just because of the human casualties but because of the deaths of the horses. Sefton, a horse that survived, was the subject of enormous media attention and came to be regarded by many in Britain as a national hero.

Rossfan

Shows how little the Brit public thought of their soldiers when a horse became a hero.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Minder

It was very cosy with Tony Blair by the looks of it.
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

give her dixie

This is a good link on Slugger where it shows details in Powell's book regarding the OTR issue, and the involvement of the DUP. They bought the deal and got Tony Blair to send a letter to big Ian saying they would blame Trimble on the concession.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/02/26/downey-case-and-the-uncomfortable-facts-of-our-peace-process-re-emerge-in-a-different-light/

next stop, September 10, for number 4......

stibhan

Robinson is threatening to quit, or at least posturing towards that. It's a very, very strange situation, especially when you consider that it more or less rewards those who went on-the-run rather than stayed in the north/Britain. That said I imagine it will be years before we really find out what's happened here in the full light of day.

omagh_gael

It has gotten very messy and looks like it could have a serious impact on the future of the assembly. Bet Gerry McGeogh wishes he had of stayed OTR a bit longer.

All politics aside, it must be hard for the relevant victim's families to watch this unfold.


under the bar

You'd think details of the the 'letter' in question might have surfaced before things got this far, or a quiet word might have gone out from the top to drop charges rather than have a furore once it reaches court? Weird

AQMP

Quote from: give her dixie on February 26, 2014, 12:00:29 PM
This is a good link on Slugger where it shows details in Powell's book regarding the OTR issue, and the involvement of the DUP. They bought the deal and got Tony Blair to send a letter to big Ian saying they would blame Trimble on the concession.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/02/26/downey-case-and-the-uncomfortable-facts-of-our-peace-process-re-emerge-in-a-different-light/

Heard something on the radio there to the effect that Eames/Bradley briefed the Policing Board on this in 2010 and that the "OTR Scheme" is referenced in their report.  I don't for one minute believe that this was a "secret".

No way Pete will resign...you do know there are elections coming up!!

give her dixie

Quote from: omagh_gael on February 26, 2014, 02:19:47 PM
It has gotten very messy and looks like it could have a serious impact on the future of the assembly. Bet Gerry McGeogh wishes he had of stayed OTR a bit longer.

All politics aside, it must be hard for the relevant victim's families to watch this unfold.

Gerry was grand until he ran for election. Couldn't have that now could we !!
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

Maguire01

Quote from: AQMP on February 26, 2014, 06:04:28 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 26, 2014, 12:00:29 PM
This is a good link on Slugger where it shows details in Powell's book regarding the OTR issue, and the involvement of the DUP. They bought the deal and got Tony Blair to send a letter to big Ian saying they would blame Trimble on the concession.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/02/26/downey-case-and-the-uncomfortable-facts-of-our-peace-process-re-emerge-in-a-different-light/

Heard something on the radio there to the effect that Eames/Bradley briefed the Policing Board on this in 2010 and that the "OTR Scheme" is referenced in their report.  I don't for one minute believe that this was a "secret".

No way Pete will resign...you do know there are elections coming up!!
That's exactly why he might. Although given that he is calling for an inquiry, he must be either confident that it will never happen, or confident that there'll be no evidence that the DUP knew about this.

Heard the reference on the radio this evening to Eames/Bradley as well, but it wasn't discussed in much detail to know what it means.

I don't understand why provision was made for OTRs, but not a full amnesty. Surely if some people are beyond the law for what happened prior to 1998, everyone should be? And why should it be different for someone who left the country? It's the arguments the likes of the DUP are making, but surely it's double standards to push for the Bloody Sunday soldiers to stand trial, yet support this scheme? Either everyone with evidence against them faces trial, or no one. I'm torn on which is the best of those two options.

Nally Stand

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 26, 2014, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 26, 2014, 06:04:28 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on February 26, 2014, 12:00:29 PM
This is a good link on Slugger where it shows details in Powell's book regarding the OTR issue, and the involvement of the DUP. They bought the deal and got Tony Blair to send a letter to big Ian saying they would blame Trimble on the concession.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/02/26/downey-case-and-the-uncomfortable-facts-of-our-peace-process-re-emerge-in-a-different-light/

Heard something on the radio there to the effect that Eames/Bradley briefed the Policing Board on this in 2010 and that the "OTR Scheme" is referenced in their report.  I don't for one minute believe that this was a "secret".

No way Pete will resign...you do know there are elections coming up!!
That's exactly why he might. Although given that he is calling for an inquiry, he must be either confident that it will never happen, or confident that there'll be no evidence that the DUP knew about this.

Heard the reference on the radio this evening to Eames/Bradley as well, but it wasn't discussed in much detail to know what it means.

I don't understand why provision was made for OTRs, but not a full amnesty. Surely if some people are beyond the law for what happened prior to 1998, everyone should be? And why should it be different for someone who left the country? It's the arguments the likes of the DUP are making, but surely it's double standards to push for the Bloody Sunday soldiers to stand trial, yet support this scheme? Either everyone with evidence against them faces trial, or no one. I'm torn on which is the best of those two options.

I think the real double standards lie with unionist "outrage" over this news  ;) ;) ;)which they didn't know about ;););), mirrored with their silence on the amnesty british forces have been operating under here for almost all of the conflict.

In 1972, 79 Irish people were shot dead by the British Army in Ireland. The vast majority of these were civilians. In July 1972, a strategic government and security meeting at Stormont Castle was held, involving the Secretary for State William Whitelaw MP, the North's most senior British Army officer the General Officer Commanding (GOC) General Ford, the Deputy Chief Constable of the RUC, plus Lord Windlesham the British government's representative in the House of Lords, British MP's, and senior civil servants from the NIO. Relatives for Justice recently unearthed a document from this meeting which was met with amazingly little "outrage" from unionism. The document stated that "The (British) Army should not be inhibited in its campaign by the threat of court proceedings and should therefore be suitably indemnified." As mentioned, this meeting took place in 1972. That year 79 people were shot by the British Army. The meeting took place in July. That month the British Army killed 20 innocent civilians. Not one British soldier faced a conviction for ANY of these killings throughout 1972.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Maguire01

So what's the solution going forward? An amnesty for everyone, or everyone subject to due process? Because whatever about the wrongs of the past, it's not a runner to support an amnesty for one side, but campaign for that justice must be served against the other.

AQMP

It would be interesting to see the wording of one of these letters.

Orior

It is quite entertaining to watch the unionists climbing over themselves to be the most offended whilst foaming at the mouth.

And what is Peter Protestant threatening to do? Resign. And what will that achieve? Stop any progress. Oh good one, Peter the Punt.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians