A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)

[Milltown Row2]

The same way they stay safe on other roads.

Do the other roads of similar type have that volume of traffic going through it?

94% of serious crashes are due to human error

[Milltown Row2]

As has been said, human error isn't going to go away by itself. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the potential for it. This road is notorious and I would guess that people would be aware of the dangers on it and therefore would take extra care on it. That doesn't stop the accidents.
I'm not sure what you think you are achieving with this victim blaming/muddying the waters but it is entirely futile. There is only one fix to this problem.

Not sure you've read my posts correctly, there is nowhere in my posts I've said the road is fine and doesn't require upgrading. Victim blaming is a bit of a stretch if I'm stating facts. There are people who don't want this built and holding it up for their own reasons, that happens across planning everywhere.

But in the meantime, what can be done before the road is started? Otherwise more casualties or fatalities will happen on this road

[Rois]

I get your point MR. On this road, the margin for fatal or serious error is so small compared with other roads. A lapse in concentration on another road, and you may have enough space or time to correct a swerve. On this road, you just can't as easily .
People don't drive on it any differently - but the volume, the side roads, the lack of passing lanes, no hard shoulder etc all make any last minute adjustments all the harder and more likely to result in an accident.

[Eamonnca1]

"The 94 percent number comes from a 2015 NHTSA memo that surveyed crash reports from 2005 to 2007. It found that in 94 percent of cases a human action was "the last failure in the causal chain of events leading up to the crash" but that it is "not intended to be interpreted as the cause of the crash." This makes sense, as it is simply the way car crashes work. Humans are driving, so the last action before a crash is probably the human doing something. But that means absolutely nothing for what actually caused the crash.  To make such a determination, it would require a thorough investigation by qualified inspectors like NTSB or from a local police department. Very few crashes undergo such thorough investigations, making it easy and convenient to blame "human error" for everything, when other factors like road design, excessive speed limits, or weather conditions may have been more important."

Famous Statistic Blaming Car Crashes on Human Error Is Wrong

[trueblue1234]

People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

[imtommygunn]

There's roads in Fermanagh like this too. I went to a wedding in the Manor House and someone died out the front of the hotel in the middle of the wedding reception. It is like you say - it's not like people become worse drivers on a road like this. The roads are more dangerous.

[trueblue1234]

There's roads in Fermanagh like this too. I went to a wedding in the Manor House and someone died out the front of the hotel in the middle of the wedding reception. It is like you say - it's not like people become worse drivers on a road like this. The roads are more dangerous.

That's a bad entrance alright. Unfortunately there are many where the approach is restricted so that someone travelling at the speed limit will still be dangerous. There's some junctions were you could be pulling out of and the road clear, but someone comes around the corner or over the hill at the wrong time and you've committed to pulling out. And they might not necessarily be speeding. That's the causes of most accidents on the A5.

[armaghniac]

People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.

[trueblue1234]

People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.

I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.

[Milltown Row2]

People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.

I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.

So from these last few posts, people already know it's heavy traffic, loads of junctions, hidden dips, no overtaking lanes, and we all know it needs upgraded.

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

[armaghniac]

People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.

I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.

So from these last few posts, people already know it's heavy traffic, loads of junctions, hidden dips, no overtaking lanes, and we all know it needs upgraded.

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Reduce the speed limit.

[RadioGAAGAA]

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Would a significant bulk of the accidents be people pulling out not seeing/realising there was oncoming traffic?

Could probably adopt those automated speed reader things you see in some towns/villages to flash a red beacon back down the road upon detecting oncoming traffic - so the person in the side road knows something is coming.

[LeoMc]

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Would a significant bulk of the accidents be people pulling out not seeing/realising there was oncoming traffic?

Could probably adopt those automated speed reader things you see in some towns/villages to flash a red beacon back down the road upon detecting oncoming traffic - so the person in the side road knows something is coming.

With over 1300 entrances / exits that is a lot of flashing beacons.

[Milltown Row2]

That's nearly 1300 reasons why some people don't want a new road as it'll affect their lives, temporarily, as once it's done everyone adapts and moves on.

When the Carrickfegus to Belfast road was done it inconvenienced plenty and houses demolished and no right or left turns for residents that had that opportunity originally. It's now a dual carriage way to motorway as is the Larne rd.

[armaghniac]

And note that with the A8 to Larne they just got on with it, not the the A5.