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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Hereiam on June 08, 2009, 11:51:29 AM

Title: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on June 08, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Just wondering if anyone has heard what route this new road is taking. Road Service were to annouce it this month.
http://www.a5wtc.com/ (http://www.a5wtc.com/)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Donagh on June 08, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on June 08, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Just wondering if anyone has heard what route this new road is taking. Road Service were to annouce it this month.
http://www.a5wtc.com/ (http://www.a5wtc.com/)

The 'Staters were to build that. Probably gone the same way as the FF vote.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on June 08, 2009, 12:12:21 PM
From what I am hearing it is still going ahead, to be completed in 2015. I suppose this being the north of Ireland alot can change.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 08, 2009, 12:12:37 PM
Quote from: Donagh on June 08, 2009, 12:10:09 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on June 08, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Just wondering if anyone has heard what route this new road is taking. Road Service were to annouce it this month.
http://www.a5wtc.com/ (http://www.a5wtc.com/)

The 'Staters were to build that. Probably gone the same way as the FF vote.

Did they not commit to it again in the last budget or in some announcement a few months back?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Doogie Browser on June 08, 2009, 12:14:08 PM
There was public meetings in Omagh, Strabane, Ballygawley etc in the last 3/4 months, all residents received consultation notes in the post recently too, so AFAIK its still going ahead.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: orangeman on June 08, 2009, 12:17:34 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 08, 2009, 12:14:08 PM
There was public meetings in Omagh, Strabane, Ballygawley etc in the last 3/4 months, all residents received consultation notes in the post recently too, so AFAIK its still going ahead.

Good stuff - hoepfully the locals will get a bit of work from the construction of it instead of seeing all the strange number plates along the new A4 section.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: stpauls on June 08, 2009, 12:44:44 PM
The wife is from Ballygawley and from what i gather the road is still going ahead as they have cleared the stretch of road from Auchnacloy to the roundabout already.
not sure what route they are taking yet though, but they had a load of documentation send to the houses along the route that mat be affected, depending which alternative they choose.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: on the sideline on July 06, 2009, 03:05:23 PM
Any more word on this and where its going through?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on July 06, 2009, 03:17:10 PM
I hear it is to be annouced in Omagh on the 21st July. After all the big men come back from walking the Queens Highway
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2009, 04:22:40 PM
QuoteThe wife is from Ballygawley and from what i gather the road is still going ahead as they have cleared the stretch of road from Auchnacloy to the roundabout already.

The scheme from Auchnacloy to Ballygawley is an old fashioned straightening of the road and is not related to the Ballygawley Derry project.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on July 06, 2009, 04:28:29 PM
Quote from: on the sideline on July 06, 2009, 03:05:23 PM
Any more word on this and where its going through?

I've heard it starts off in Derry, heads to Letterkenny, Strabane, Omagh, Ballygawley, Monaghan.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: stpauls on July 06, 2009, 05:32:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 06, 2009, 04:22:40 PM
QuoteThe wife is from Ballygawley and from what i gather the road is still going ahead as they have cleared the stretch of road from Auchnacloy to the roundabout already.

The scheme from Auchnacloy to Ballygawley is an old fashioned straightening of the road and is not related to the Ballygawley Derry project.

i would have thought that it would have been one in the same? if they are 2 seperate projects, they are still being constructed to be linked together, at some stage in the future! seems like a awful lot of effort just to straighten the road, as it looks like it will be a dual carraigeway when finished.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 06:02:20 PM
This guy has all the info:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html

It's good to see the corners being taken of that road between Ballygawley and Aughnacloy - it's a horrible bit of road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
Quotei would have thought that it would have been one in the same? if they are 2 seperate projects, they are still being constructed to be linked together, at some stage in the future! seems like a awful lot of effort just to straighten the road, as it looks like it will be a dual carraigeway when finished.

I may be wrong on this one but I don't think this road is a dual carriageway or that they have even taken the land for a dual carriageway. As a twisty bit of road it was on the list for a scheme before the big Freestate financed plan emerged.

See Wesley Johnston's page on this one
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a4a5realignments.html
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Gnevin on July 06, 2009, 06:40:12 PM
Queue the NIMBY's or is it different up north?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on July 21, 2009, 08:35:46 PM
The preferred route was unveiled today, after some confusion last week.

http://www.a5wtc.com/Images/PreferredRoute.pdf (http://www.a5wtc.com/Images/PreferredRoute.pdf)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:06:52 PM
I won't miss the journey through Omagh and all those horrible wee places between Omagh and L'Derry.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Norf Tyrone on July 21, 2009, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:06:52 PM
I won't miss the journey through Omagh and all those horrible wee places between Omagh and L'Derry.

What you going to do when the Roes machine are in senior football?

First person to say teleport gets it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on December 08, 2009, 02:26:49 PM
Contractors announced for A5 Derry-Aughnacloy dualling 

The new dual carriageway would bypass Omagh and Strabane

The contractors who will build an £800m dual carriageway between Derry and Aughnacloy have been announced by the regional development minister.

Conor Murphy said three groups of companies, which include Balfour Beattie, Roadbridge and Farrans, will begin work in 2012.

Agreements still have to be made with landowners along the route before construction can begin.

There will also be a public inquiry in summer 2011.

Mr Murphy specified that the contractors will have to employ apprentices and the long-term unemployed.

He also stressed that the project is still subject to the availability of finance.

The 86-kilometre stretch between Derry and Aughnacloy is the largest single road building project on the island of Ireland.

The preferred route for the new route was announced by Conor Murphy in July.

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8400973.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8400973.stm)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: slow corner back on December 08, 2009, 02:30:49 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on December 08, 2009, 02:26:49 PM
Contractors announced for A5 Derry-Aughnacloy dualling 

The new dual carriageway would bypass Omagh and Strabane

The contractors who will build an £800m dual carriageway between Derry and Aughnacloy have been announced by the regional development minister.

Conor Murphy said three groups of companies, which include Balfour Beattie, Roadbridge and Farrans, will begin work in 2012.

Agreements still have to be made with landowners along the route before construction can begin.

There will also be a public inquiry in summer 2011.

Mr Murphy specified that the contractors will have to employ apprentices and the long-term unemployed.

He also stressed that the project is still subject to the availability of finance.

The 86-kilometre stretch between Derry and Aughnacloy is the largest single road building project on the island of Ireland.

The preferred route for the new route was announced by Conor Murphy in July.

Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8400973.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8400973.stm)

Hope it goes ahead as scheduled but the highlighted part is very concerning. There is no doubt that after the general election, however wins it is going to slash UK public spending.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
it is difficult to see this road proceeding in a short timescale, given the financial situation.

This might not be a problem for some people, of course

http://www.uup.org/news/environment/environment-news-archive/re-think-needed-over-costly-a5-plans.php

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1798
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on December 08, 2009, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 08, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
it is difficult to see this road proceeding in a short timescale, given the financial situation.

This might not be a problem for some people, of course

http://www.uup.org/news/environment/...y-a5-plans.php

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=1798

The UUP link doesn't work, but the Jim Allister blog is as sad as it is predictable.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2009, 03:40:51 PM
UUP link above fixed.

This is it anyway.

Ulster Unionist MLA Tom Elliott this week joined Lord Laird of Artigarvan and transport specialist Brian Guckian to look at local concerns over the proposed A5 Transport Corridor.

"While there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the existing route is in desperate need of upgrading, the word 'upgrade' rather than 'replacement' is key.

"Attendees at the event in Omagh's Silverbirch Hotel on Monday expressed great concern at the prospect of a new build motorway tearing through acres of virgin countryside.

"Having held a series of meetings from Aughnacloy to New Buildings, it is apparent that feelings over the proposals are very mixed, and that the prospect of an upgrade is welcome, but not at any cost," the Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA said.

"Opposition to these plans is based on a number of factors, from the environmental and personal impact of the build and of increased traffic, to the financial cost. These are all justified concerns and must be given a fair hearing.

"During the course of the meeting we heard issues over the destruction of badger setts, the proximity of the mortorway to an Area of Special Scientific Interest (ASSI), the proposed build's elevation at certain points - giving rise to fears of dangerous cross-winds, and the £800 million cost for which funds have yet to be allocated.

"These issues were all underpinned by a presentation from rail and integrated transport researcher, Brian Guckian, who offered a compelling argument for extending and replacing the railway network, which has been long abandoned in the region. Interestingly, the estimated cost of such a project amounts to in the region of £300 million - substantially less than the £800 million motorway build," the UUP MLA said.

"Highlighting that the new motorway will take up eight times the land that re-opening the railways would, will use 80 per cent more energy and produce 40 to 60 percent more CO2, Mr Guckian said that these plans completely oppose UK and European best practice.

"If we look to Scotland, and indeed to the wider UK, it is clear that our public transport structure is lagging far behind. To be on a par with our counterparts over the water, we should have some 600 miles of railway - instead we have just 200.

"While I must emphasise that I am fully in favour of improving the existing road network, the extension of rail services into the west is certainly worth considering. It is clear that our dependence on the road network, without an attractive public transport alternative, in turn breeds greater dependence which is costly both in terms of finance and environment.

"The A5 undoubtedly needs huge improvement, but the traffic levels simply don't justify a motorway and indeed a development of this size is contrary to contemporary best practice, which seeks to cut - not encourage - car usage.

"I will be lobbying the Minister to look again at this issue, in the firm belief that where there is a will to find a better solution, there is always a way.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.

if they build wider roads in the south there might be a chance you'll pull over and let some real drivers past  :D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.

if they build wider roads in the south there might be a chance you'll pull over and let some real drivers past  :D

South!!! I don't do much driving in Munster. No need for so call real drivers to ever have to pass me, I almost always drive at the speed limit (except if road conditions dictate otherwise). If your passing me out and you are 95% chance of being a speeder. I can drive faster, I choose not too. Its called civic responsibility & moraly right.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Archie Mitchell on December 08, 2009, 04:07:03 PM
You'd be shit at playing Mario Kart then.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.

if they build wider roads in the south there might be a chance you'll pull over and let some real drivers past  :D

South!!! I don't do much driving in Munster. No need for so call real drivers to ever have to pass me, I almost always drive at the speed limit (except if road conditions dictate otherwise). If your passing me out and you are 95% chance of being a speeder. I can drive faster, I choose not too. Its called civic responsibility & moraly right.

You've a civic responsibility not to cause road rage and get into the pussy lane.  Last time i checked Aughnacloy was to the north of Mayo.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.

if they build wider roads in the south there might be a chance you'll pull over and let some real drivers past  :D

South!!! I don't do much driving in Munster. No need for so call real drivers to ever have to pass me, I almost always drive at the speed limit (except if road conditions dictate otherwise). If your passing me out and you are 95% chance of being a speeder. I can drive faster, I choose not too. Its called civic responsibility & moraly right.

You've a civic responsibility not to cause road rage and get into the pussy lane.  Last time i checked Aughnacloy was to the north of Mayo.

Hard man eh! Speeding, f**k I prefer driving on the outside lane, but I only use it for overtaking, as it was intended. 100,000 speed cameras, thats what this country needs & eletric shock therapy for offenders.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 08, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 08, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
Will this road provide an economic benefit to the taxpayers of County Donegal, otherwise the Irish State should redirect the money to projects within the 26 counties to stimulate our economy.

if they build wider roads in the south there might be a chance you'll pull over and let some real drivers past  :D

South!!! I don't do much driving in Munster. No need for so call real drivers to ever have to pass me, I almost always drive at the speed limit (except if road conditions dictate otherwise). If your passing me out and you are 95% chance of being a speeder. I can drive faster, I choose not too. Its called civic responsibility & moraly right.

You've a civic responsibility not to cause road rage and get into the pussy lane.  Last time i checked Aughnacloy was to the north of Mayo.

Hard man eh! Speeding, f**k I prefer driving on the outside lane, but I only use it for overtaking, as it was intended. 100,000 speed cameras, thats what this country needs & eletric shock therapy for offenders.
I would use it for overtaking too if boys like you got out of the way   :D 

And listen to Jesus' cub who has never committed an offence in his life   ::)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on December 08, 2009, 04:47:02 PM
Although not convinced by what the UUP are saying, at least they are putting up a better arguement than the TUV.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 22, 2010, 10:15:48 PM
The design of this road has advanced, with new stuff on the website recently.

However another consequence of Cowan & co's management is that the 26 counties will not be able to pony up their share and the UUP will get to protect the planters of the Foyle/Shrule valley from a Freestate road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 22, 2010, 10:30:47 PM
I would say the long overdue road is dead in the water now.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Evil Genius on November 22, 2010, 10:40:45 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 22, 2010, 10:30:47 PM
I would say the long overdue road is dead in the water now.
I hear Dublin has asked for it back (but we offered them Gerry Adams instead  ;) )
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on November 22, 2010, 11:24:20 PM
Have it from good sorces that this road is going ahead as scheduled. All monies are in place
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on November 25, 2010, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 22, 2010, 11:24:20 PM
Have it from good sorces that this road is going ahead as scheduled. All monies are in place

According to the news last night Cowan is still going to provide his share.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on November 25, 2010, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on July 06, 2009, 06:40:12 PM
Queue the NIMBY's or is it different up north?

No we have them too. The AA5A dont want a new road going through their valleys. Instead tje money should be used to upgrade the existing A5 (i.e make it faster and even more dangerous for everyone on it :o) and to build a railway ( ???)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 25, 2010, 06:12:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 25, 2010, 05:27:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 22, 2010, 11:24:20 PM
Have it from good sorces that this road is going ahead as scheduled. All monies are in place

According to the news last night Cowan is still going to provide his share.

According to the Ulster Herald, the money's definitely there from the south for the A5, but not necessarily from Stormont.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 25, 2010, 06:15:01 PM
QuoteAccording to the news last night Cowan is still going to provide his share.

The political will is there, but there has to still be question mark over the ability to pay. Borrowing money at high rates of interest for this project or any of the other road projects in the 26 counties does not make sense, at present.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on February 02, 2011, 04:50:44 PM
I see in the email previewing tomorrow's Ulster Herald, there's a bit piece in it about an investigation into fake letters of objections, that was submitted against the new road being built.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on February 02, 2011, 05:34:41 PM
What is the story with the ££££££££? Are they available?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on February 02, 2011, 05:38:50 PM
Latest update from Wesley Johnston

14 Jan 2011: The DRD has released its draft budget for the period 2011-2015. This shows that the A5 and A8 schemes are being progressed at all costs - all other schemes (with the exception of the Cherrymount Link in Enniskillen) have been put on hold until at least 2015 in order to ensure there is sufficient money for the A5 and A8. Even so, the budget assumes that the £400m contribution from the Irish government comes through (see previous update). The decision to press ahead with the A5 and A8 will certainly provoke debate because (a) a number of smaller schemes are being sacrificed to allow the A5 and A8 to proceed (b) the Irish government contribution carries a high risk of withdrawal (c) the A5 is one of the most controversial in recent years.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2011, 07:17:45 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on February 02, 2011, 05:34:41 PM
What is the story with the ££££££££? Are they available?
FF were still saying yes in January. But they know they won't have to deliver on any such promise. One Labour TD (can't remember who) has already said it would not be a priority. And you couldn't really blame them.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 02, 2011, 07:37:14 PM
I could. This is a very important route as it is the main link from Dublin to Donegal and Derry and it needs to be upgraded every bit as much as all the projects which were completed under the Transport 21 programme
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2011, 07:40:20 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 02, 2011, 07:37:14 PM
I could. This is a very important route as it is the main link from Dublin to Donegal and Derry and it needs to be upgraded every bit as much as all the projects which were completed under the Transport 21 programme
Upgraded, yes, possibly. But is it an absolute priority? And does it need to be a full dual carraigeway? It's debatable. Anyway, is there any sign of the road being sorted up through Monaghan as far as Aughnacloy? Because that's one of the worst parts.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 02, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
I think it does need to be a dual carriageway all the way as anything short would be a road safety nightmare. I agree  with you that the road from Monaghan to Aughnacloy also needs to be upgraded
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2011, 07:44:55 PM
QuoteAnyway, is there any sign of the road being sorted up through Monaghan as far as Aughnacloy? Because that's one of the worst parts.

It is mixed. It is also not that busy as main roads go.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2011, 07:49:54 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on February 02, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
I think it does need to be a dual carriageway all the way as anything short would be a road safety nightmare. I agree  with you that the road from Monaghan to Aughnacloy also needs to be upgraded
It's not an overly unsafe road, is it? It doesn't have the reputation that the likes of the Dungannon to Ballygawley Road had. Would 2+1 lanes not work rather than a full dual carraigeway? Obviously the full works would be nice to drive on, but is there really the volume of traffic to warrant it?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on February 02, 2011, 07:51:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2011, 07:44:55 PM
QuoteAnyway, is there any sign of the road being sorted up through Monaghan as far as Aughnacloy? Because that's one of the worst parts.

It is mixed. It is also not that busy as main roads go.
Not that busy, but very bendy and very few opportunities, at least before Emyvale, to overtake. A horrible road to drive on, especially stuck behind a lorry.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Minder on November 09, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.

bbc describes the funding as "withdrawn"
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trileacman on November 09, 2011, 02:40:52 PM

To date, with not one foot of tar laid, the republic have spent 19 million euro's. Lads is it any wonder you're fucked.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Bensars on November 09, 2011, 02:45:32 PM
They were setting up Scaffolding and coning the area off, about a mile out of omagh on the dromore road yesterday. It looks like (im no enginneer) setting up for a bridge. I thought it was the start of the new through pass to Derry
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 09, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.

bbc describes the funding as "withdrawn"

According to SDLP West Tyrone MLA Joe Byrne on the party's website:

"I have had assurances through SDLP party leader Alasdair McDonnell, who met with Dublin government ministers this week and sought assurances that this is only a postponement and not a cancellation."

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trileacman on November 09, 2011, 03:03:36 PM
Quote from: Bensars on November 09, 2011, 02:45:32 PM
They were setting up Scaffolding and coning the area off, about a mile out of omagh on the dromore road yesterday. It looks like (im no enginneer) setting up for a bridge. I thought it was the start of the new through pass to Derry
Thats for pylons lad, you don't put a bridge with scaffolding. It takes in the region of 2-3 acres of foundations to make a bridge.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trileacman on November 09, 2011, 03:05:49 PM
Well even if it is only a postponement you can see which way the wind is blowing. Kenny trying to let us down easy I'd imagine.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 09, 2011, 03:10:28 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 09, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.

bbc describes the funding as "withdrawn"

According to SDLP West Tyrone MLA Joe Byrne on the party's website:

"I have had assurances through SDLP party leader Alasdair McDonnell, who met with Dublin government ministers this week and sought assurances that this is only a postponement and not a cancellation."

That's what north Donegal gets for Mc Guinness topping the presidential poll therein.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on November 09, 2011, 03:21:53 PM
Is stormount still planning on taking a chunk of this for repairs to some railway line?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2011, 03:42:42 PM
Scheme is toast, for now at least.

Irish Government Pulls Funding for A5. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15658959)

Funding postponed for Derry-Monaghan road link (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1109/roads.html)



Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Main Street on November 09, 2011, 06:44:37 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 09, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.

bbc describes the funding as "withdrawn"

According to SDLP West Tyrone MLA Joe Byrne on the party's website:

"I have had assurances through SDLP party leader Alasdair McDonnell, who met with Dublin government ministers this week and sought assurances that this is only a postponement and not a cancellation."

Those SDLP dudes are a bit dim witted, easy to pull a fast one on them,
thinking that a Leinster house assurance could miraculously turn a cancellation into a postponement.
;D

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on November 09, 2011, 02:40:52 PM

To date, with not one foot of tar laid, the republic have spent 19 million euro's. Lads is it any wonder you're fucked.
That's hardly unusual for a project of this size.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 08:41:11 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 09, 2011, 03:10:28 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 09, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 01:44:17 PM
Sammy Wilson just announced that Irish govt has postponed its part of the payment towards the planned A5 upgrade from Aughtnacloy.

bbc describes the funding as "withdrawn"

According to SDLP West Tyrone MLA Joe Byrne on the party's website:

"I have had assurances through SDLP party leader Alasdair McDonnell, who met with Dublin government ministers this week and sought assurances that this is only a postponement and not a cancellation."

That's what north Donegal gets for Mc Guinness topping the presidential poll therein.
Yeah, that'll be it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Main Street on November 09, 2011, 09:07:12 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.

Never underestimate the depth of feeling and the widespread sympathy felt by the southern brethren for their northern counterparts, for the poor state of the driving conditions they must endure.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties. And you say you are not partitionist  ::)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties. And you say you are not partitionist  ::)

Why should this road go ahead when others don't? f**k all decent roads West of the Shannon North of Galway City, in Donegal or in the North West midlands. Should that area of the country always be ignored?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 09, 2011, 10:20:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties. And you say you are not partitionist  ::)

Anything that makes it easier for Donegal to get to Croke Park is not a positive for anybody in 31 counties (never mind 25).

Bravo Minister Varadkar. He has done the state a great service with this decision.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:26:47 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties. And you say you are not partitionist  ::)

Why should this road go ahead when others don't? f**k all decent roads West of the Shannon North of Galway City, in Donegal or in the North West midlands. Should that area of the country always be ignored?

I didn't say it should go ahead instead of any other road, my issue is with the partitionism of your argument (considering you say you are not a partitionist)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:27:13 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on November 09, 2011, 10:20:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties. And you say you are not partitionist  ::)

Anything that makes it easier for Donegal to get to Croke Park is not a positive for anybody in 31 counties (never mind 25).

Bravo Minister Varadkar. He has done the state a great service with this decision.

:D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2011, 11:27:26 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
There is f**k all in Donegal so I don't see what the crying is about.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: front of the mountain on November 10, 2011, 10:37:13 AM
It will be massive loss for construction jobs especially in the times that it is!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on November 10, 2011, 10:51:05 AM
f**k knows what projects they'd have pulled if they hadn't 'found' the 3.6bn...??
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tubberman on November 10, 2011, 11:30:22 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...

Nally:

(http://thefreeman.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/not-listening.jpg)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...

But did Enda & Co think back in May that they could afford it? ("The previous government had committed to put money in there and we will honour that commitment." Enda Kenny, May 2011). Did nobody tell him about the debt crisis in May? Has nobody told him about the €3.6bn that has since magically appeared? Has nobody told him that funding for this road by the Dublin government was a committment of the St Andrew's Agreement?
I just don't understand how he has suddenly realised they can't afford the road, when he was full of promises a few short months ago. Maybe back in May, nobody told him they would have to pay €750m to foreign bondholders by the start of November.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:33:12 AM
Excellent contribution Tubberman. eh hem.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Trout on November 10, 2011, 11:36:52 AM
Surely a SF lapdog can understand a politician reneging on a commitment, can you not get it through your skull that this isn't the only project being shelved and it isn't a grand conspiracy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...

But did Enda & Co think back in May that they could afford it? ("The previous government had committed to put money in there and we will honour that commitment." Enda Kenny, May 2011). Did nobody tell him about the debt crisis in May? Has nobody told him about the €3.6bn that has since magically appeared? Has nobody told him that funding for this road by the Dublin government was a committment of the St Andrew's Agreement?
I just don't understand how he has suddenly realised they can't afford the road, when he was full of promises a few short months ago. Maybe back in May, nobody told him they would have to pay €750m to foreign bondholders by the start of November.

Nally now that Martin is back up North, will ya ask him can he put the money into to upgrading the Atlantic Corridor and the N5, I expect he will have no problem sucking the funds out of the North and let a few projects up there hit the shelf as part of the sarcrifice.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...

But did Enda & Co think back in May that they could afford it? ("The previous government had committed to put money in there and we will honour that commitment." Enda Kenny, May 2011). Did nobody tell him about the debt crisis in May? Has nobody told him about the €3.6bn that has since magically appeared? Has nobody told him that funding for this road by the Dublin government was a committment of the St Andrew's Agreement?
I just don't understand how he has suddenly realised they can't afford the road, when he was full of promises a few short months ago. Maybe back in May, nobody told him they would have to pay €750m to foreign bondholders by the start of November.

Nally now that Martin is back up North, will ya ask him can he put the money into to upgrading the Atlantic Corridor and the N5, I expect he will have no problem sucking the funds out of the North and let a few projects up there hit the shelf as part of the sarcrifice.

Did he say in May that he would do so?
Did he also specifically commit to doing so as part of the St Andrew's Agreement?
Is the N5 upgrading of benefit to All Ireland/cross-border infrastructure?


If yes to the above, then I' say he would be happy enough to put up some funding. Give him a ring.


Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
Nally now that Martin is back up North...
Is he in Donegal? Or are you being partitionist as always?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 11:52:21 AM
Nally doesn't seem to notice all the capital projects being pulled, except one. They can abandon roads, rail links, children's hospitals anywhere without comment, as long as it's not in Northern Ireland.

Partitionist.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 11:52:21 AM
Nally doesn't seem to notice all the capital projects being pulled, except one. They can abandon roads, rail links, children's hospitals anywhere without comment, as long as it's not in Northern Ireland.

Partitionist.

I just find it odd that they would commit to it in the St. Andrew's agreement, spend €19m on it to date, commit to funding the rest just a few months ago, and only now realise they can't afford it? Did the economic crisis only start on Monday? Jaysus you lads get terribly upset when it is suggested Enda broke a promise  :o
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: goal and a point on November 10, 2011, 12:02:56 PM
people in south dont seem too bothered about this, it was not even in top 10 news stories in the rte.ie yesterday. It is a massive blow for the North but think of the contibution southern people were going to gain out of it -and the number of experienced engineers / construction workers in the south who are out of work that it may have helped.
Remember Sisk and Roadbridge - Irelands 2 biggest civil engineering companies would have getting around £200 million for their section. Fair blow to these companies also. Where will they replace this turnover from??
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:03:55 PM
QuoteI just find it odd that they would commit to it in the St. Andrew's agreement, spend €19m on it to date, commit to funding the rest just a few months ago, and only now realise they can't afford it? Did the economic crisis only start on Monday?

Well the economic crisis hadn't started at the St Andrew's agreement. Enda was economical with the truth perhaps, but this is hardly the biggest change of policy brought about by circumstances. The money hasn't been withdrawn it merely has been postponed until the funds are available. Most capital money is being spent on schools rather than roads.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 11:52:21 AM
Nally doesn't seem to notice all the capital projects being pulled, except one. They can abandon roads, rail links, children's hospitals anywhere without comment, as long as it's not in Northern Ireland.

Partitionist.

I just find it odd that they would commit to it in the St. Andrew's agreement, spend €19m on it to date, commit to funding the rest just a few months ago, and only now realise they can't afford it? Did the economic crisis only start on Monday? Jaysus you lads get terribly upset when it is suggested Enda broke a promise  :o

I enjoy poking things with a stick to see what happens. It's nearly always surprising. This time I find out I'm considered one of us lads, whoever we are.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Norf Tyrone on November 10, 2011, 12:07:54 PM
I think Nally's points are all fair questions, and people appear to be ignoring his points/ questions.

When it was reaffirmed in May that the project was still going ahead, what's changed since then to stop it going ahead. We've heard countless goverment ministers time after time stating that the money for the road was ringfenced for this project and it would go ahead no matter what. So what's changed to stop this happening?

Read this morning in the paper too, that a lot of construction firms have contracts signed already by both goverments to work on the road. What happens them now?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bailestil on November 10, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
Where did this notion of Irish Gov agreeing to it in St Andrews appear from?
Maybe they ain't so stupid after all. If it ain't in writing it, they never agreed it.

http://www.nio.gov.uk/st_andrews_agreement.pdf
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 10, 2011, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on November 10, 2011, 12:07:54 PM
I think Nally's points are all fair questions, and people appear to be ignoring his points/ questions.

When it was reaffirmed in May that the project was still going ahead, what's changed since then to stop it going ahead.

€3.6 billion
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:13:30 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 10, 2011, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 09, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 09, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 09, 2011, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 09, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on November 09, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
well in fairness it would be hard to sell the cuts that are coming up in the budget to the 'sheep' while building a road in 'the nort'.
jao meebollicks would have had a fieldday :-[

Well if lots of road projects throughout the Republic are being cancelled, why should a road in the North get the go ahead. It would be a slap in the face of taxpayers.

The road would effectively be a corridor from Monaghan to Donegal so yes, it is of benefit to the 26 counties.
But if they can't afford to build the road through Monaghan and up to Aughnacloy, why would they prioritise the Aughnacloy to Derry section?

It was to meet up with the road in Monaghan.

Would you rather the new road avoided the north and went the long way round to Donegal?
My point is that there was no money and no sign of the Monaghan section being built. So why would the southern Government use taxpayers' money to prioritise the section in the north?

And let's not forget, this is only one of countless infrastructure projects that have been pulled.

Cos they promised before the election, and again in May, that they would provide the funds? Or was Enda treated as badly as Bertie....nobody told him in May that there was an economic crisis? Furthermore it would have meant that Derry would no longer be Ireland's only main city with no main road to Dublin.
Yes, but again, if they can't afford to fund the part of the road in their own taxpayers' jurisdiction...

But did Enda & Co think back in May that they could afford it? ("The previous government had committed to put money in there and we will honour that commitment." Enda Kenny, May 2011). Did nobody tell him about the debt crisis in May? Has nobody told him about the €3.6bn that has since magically appeared? Has nobody told him that funding for this road by the Dublin government was a committment of the St Andrew's Agreement?
I just don't understand how he has suddenly realised they can't afford the road, when he was full of promises a few short months ago. Maybe back in May, nobody told him they would have to pay €750m to foreign bondholders by the start of November.

Nally now that Martin is back up North, will ya ask him can he put the money into to upgrading the Atlantic Corridor and the N5, I expect he will have no problem sucking the funds out of the North and let a few projects up there hit the shelf as part of the sarcrifice.

Did he say in May that he would do so?
Did he also specifically commit to doing so as part of the St Andrew's Agreement?
Is the N5 upgrading of benefit to All Ireland/cross-border infrastructure?


If yes to the above, then I' say he would be happy enough to put up some funding. Give him a ring.


Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
Nally now that Martin is back up North...
Is he in Donegal? Or are you being partitionist as always?

The 6 counties are on the Eastern half of the island, typical Eastern Irish paritionist. What about cross-Shannon infrastructure.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: Hardy on November 10, 2011, 11:52:21 AM
Nally doesn't seem to notice all the capital projects being pulled, except one. They can abandon roads, rail links, children's hospitals anywhere without comment, as long as it's not in Northern Ireland.

Partitionist.

I just find it odd that they would commit to it in the St. Andrew's agreement, spend €19m on it to date, commit to funding the rest just a few months ago, and only now realise they can't afford it? Did the economic crisis only start on Monday? Jaysus you lads get terribly upset when it is suggested Enda broke a promise  :o

Another man who cannot stick to his word

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nzvpMlHuIrs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nzvpMlHuIrs)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 10, 2011, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Cork, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

(http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/darttodingle.jpg?w=400&h=533)

(http://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/olympics.jpg?w=400&h=593)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: thebigfella on November 10, 2011, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Cry me a f**king river  ::)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 01:31:54 PM
They used to say that there were only motorways East of the Bann in the 6 counties. Now that SF are in government there are still only motorways east of the Bann. Why?

Edit: I forgot about the twisty bit going to Dungannon.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Mario on November 10, 2011, 01:41:55 PM
I don't think this upgrade as important as it once was, the construction traffic on the A5 as rush hour is a fraction of what it used to be. I'd be happy enough for Stormonts proportion of this money to go on improving the A6 between Derry and Belfast. Bypass Dungiven, and build a dual carriage way from the M2 to the Toome bypass.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:50:07 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1110/budget_capital.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1110/budget_capital.html)

(http://img.rasset.ie/0003d9e4-314.jpg)

The Government will spend €17bn on capital investment over the next five years, but the Metro North and DART underground projects have been deferred.

Metro North plan has been deferred Play Stop  One News: Government details cuts in capital spending

Capital spending cuts hit road building hard
The Government will spend €17bn on capital investment over the next five years.

Just under €4bn will be spent on capital projects next year - a cut of €755m.

The Infrastructure and Capital Investment programme launched this afternoon reveals that priority will be given to school, healthcare and job creation infrastructure projects.

Deferred plans include Metro North, DART underground, Thornton Hall prison, and the Grangegorman DIT single campus project.

However, the so-called BXD project to link the two Luas lines and extend the service to Broombridge will proceed.

In health, over €2bn will be spent over the five-year programme on projects including the National Radiation Oncology Project, the Central Mental Hospital and the National Children's Hospital.

Part of the funding for the National Children's Hospital will be raised by an upfront payment from the next licence to operate the National Lottery.

Some of the health funding will also be allocated to enhanced primary care centres.

In education, 70,000 additional students are expected to enter primary and second level education over the next five years.

Funding will be made available for 20 new primary and 20 new second level schools, as well as extensions and refurbishment for a further 180 existing schools.

€1.6bn will be spent on the water system over five years - for improvements in leakage, drinking water standards and supply infrastructure.

€45m will be spent next year on flood risk management and mitigation. Major work schemes are to continue in Clonmel, Mallow, Fermoy, Ennis, Waterford and Carlow.

Road investment will concentrate on maintenance rather than building new roads.

The agriculture sector will receive supports totalling €800m over the next five years.

The total capital allocation to the Justice Sector for 2012 is €56 million. While the Thornton Hall prison has been deferred, €24m will be made available to provide additional spaces in existing facilities to ease overcrowding and for priority projects including in-cell sanitation.

Exchequer grants for energy efficiency for consumers are to be phased out by 2014.

Grants for enterprise next year will total €514m.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on November 10, 2011, 01:55:14 PM
As someone who was knocked down on that road as a child (my two sisters were also hit by a car in a separate incident), I was hoping that the new road would mean that heavy traffic wouldn't pass through the villages from Omagh northwards for safety reasons.  I also hoped that there would be additional passing options on the road between Omagh and Derry - I've seen fantastically risky moves on that road. 
But I understand why the Irish government cannot justify that spend when so many other services are crying out for it - health and education should be the priorities.

However, I hope the Stormont Executive presses ahead with its spending plans on some sort of upgrade to the road.  A journalist on the radio this morning suggested that people go from Derry to Belfast and then to Dublin - completely laughable.  This road is not just for Derry people, it's for those in the west (including Donegal) who want to travel on a safer and yes, quicker road, whether it be southwards to Dublin or northwards to Derry (where most people in the Strabane/Omagh area would travel for emergency hospital services to name but one).   
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...

You do understand the money isn't there. You fancy they do another Roscommon A&E so you can have your 30 pieces of aphalt!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...

You do understand the money isn't there. You fancy they do another Roscommon A&E so you can have your 30 pieces of aphalt!

That's it. Avoid my last point  ::)

As for no money...I am aware of the reason. My question all along which has yet to be answered, is why they are only realising this now, when back in May, (even before the 3.6bn magically reappeared), we were told that there was enough money to build the road. What changed?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...

You do understand the money isn't there. You fancy they do another Roscommon A&E so you can have your 30 pieces of aphalt!

That's it. Avoid my last point  ::)

As for no money...I am aware of the reason. My question all along which has yet to be answered, is why they are only realising this now, when back in May, (even before the 3.6bn magically reappeared), we were told that there was enough money to build the road. What changed?

They realised people from Tyrone would be able to get to Dublin quicker to wreck their heads.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...

You do understand the money isn't there. You fancy they do another Roscommon A&E so you can have your 30 pieces of aphalt!

That's it. Avoid my last point  ::)

As for no money...I am aware of the reason. My question all along which has yet to be answered, is why they are only realising this now, when back in May, (even before the 3.6bn magically reappeared), we were told that there was enough money to build the road. What changed?

They realised people from Tyrone would be able to get to Dublin quicker to wreck their heads.

In the same way they built an airport in knock? Hoping some of the Mayo inbreds wud take the hint and feck away off.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:46:46 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:45:16 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on November 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 12:15:04 PM
There is a lot of talk of partitionism here. Some Tyrone posters seem to think that welfare or pay in the 26 counties should be cut so that this road can go ahead right now, which is easy to say if it doesn't affect them.

Huge cuts in road infrastructure in the West. Maybe Dublin should get its Metro, o wait it isn't. If Dublin isn't getting something you know the rest of us have f**k all chance.

Meanwhile Derry is to remain Ireland's only main city which doesn't have a main road to the capital. Seriously, what changed since May?

Meanwhile, Derry, Letterkenny, Sligo, Carrick-on-Shannon, Ballina, Castlebar, Westport, Roscommon Town, Athlone, Galway, Longford Town, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Tullamore, Tralee, Killarney, Skibbereen, Cork, Mallow, Nenagh, Clonmel will continue to experience poor interconnectivity.

Talking about this with you...why am I wasting my time. It's like having the discussion with a four year old.

Maybe you should realise that 6 counties in Ulster are not the only places in Ireland.

Nally wonder could SF arrange for a new moterway between Mayo and Belfast, it would provide crossborder interconnectivity. It would also allow me to get to places like Sligo quicker and improve the N5 at least as far as Charlestown (yes I know the N5 officially does not got through the town anymore).

And how would that rectify the fact that Derry remains the only main city in Ireland without a main road to the capital?

Call a spade a spade your just being a mé féiner, a Tyrone buck looking to get to Derry and Dublin quicker, why should you have any more right than a Mayoman wanting to be able to get to Galway or Dublin quicker? The Mayo person is paying taxes for the road.

I go to Derry by the sperrins, which would still be best for me from my house if the new road was built. And going to Dublin, a road from Aughnacloy to Derry is no use to me what-so-ever. For the people of Derry/Donegal on the other hand...

You do understand the money isn't there. You fancy they do another Roscommon A&E so you can have your 30 pieces of aphalt!

That's it. Avoid my last point  ::)

As for no money...I am aware of the reason. My question all along which has yet to be answered, is why they are only realising this now, when back in May, (even before the 3.6bn magically reappeared), we were told that there was enough money to build the road. What changed?

They realised people from Tyrone would be able to get to Dublin quicker to wreck their heads.

In the same way they built an airport in knock? Hoping some of the Mayo inbreds wud take the hint and feck away off.

Think you will find the Airport up in Knock was built because Mayo people got up of their arses and built it. Get yourself a shovel and go build yourself a road sonny-boy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 10, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
Welcome to Mayo, try an land one of these babies in Tyrone  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGW6XepzPY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGW6XepzPY&feature=related)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Evil Genius on November 10, 2011, 02:56:31 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 10, 2011, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on November 10, 2011, 12:07:54 PM
I think Nally's points are all fair questions, and people appear to be ignoring his points/ questions.

When it was reaffirmed in May that the project was still going ahead, what's changed since then to stop it going ahead.

€3.6 billion
The Irish Governement didn't suddenly find €3.6 Bn in some account that they'd forgotten about. Rather, their Accountants have informed them that their total debt is €3.6 Bn less than was previously thought.

So even assuming the Accountants are correct, this adjustment is hardly an excuse to reverse previously planned cuts, never mind go on a spree. Rather, it merely offers a slightly earlier date by which the country's finances can be said to be manageable* once more.

Anyhow, whilst I'm disappointed that this road isn't now going ahead, I am astonished it's taken this long for Dublin to pull it. Indeed if I were an ROI taxpayer, or Welfare recipient, or Hospital patient, or parent with schoolkids etc, I'd be fuming at my Government spending this money in another jurisdiction which is hardly less well off than my own. 

And as for those ROI taxpayers etc in the NW who would benefit from its being built, there are plenty others of their fellow country men who've seen much-needed infrastructure projects cut.

Oh well.



* - Just seen an item on the News about Italy's debt rate reaching an "unsustainable" 7.4%. The equivalent Irish figure is still over 8%
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2011, 06:24:37 PM
Plans for a major Dublin to Derry road link are not being abandoned, Taoiseach Enda Kenny has insisted.

The Government also remains committed to helping upgrade a dual carriageway between Belfast and Larne, he claimed.

Mr Kenny has come under attack from both sides of the border for reneging on a 400 million euro promise towards the cross-border M2/A5 project.

Plans to start work on the road, which would connect Donegal with Dublin through Northern Ireland, were mothballed as part of the Republic's austerity measures.

However announcing Dublin's spending plans for the next four years, Mr Kenny denied the shelved projects were being abandoned outright.

"They are being deferred until the economic situation allows them to proceed," he said.

"The same applies to the A5/A8 road projects in Northern Ireland. The Government remains committed to these projects, even if they will now require a longer timeline."

Mr Kenny said he was seeking early discussions with authorities in Northern Ireland about a new timetable and implementation plan for the Dublin/Derry route.

These financial commitments were part of the St Andrews Agreement struck during intensive peace process negotiations between political parties and both the Irish and British governments.

It included vows to upgrade 19km between Monaghan and Aughnacloy and 24km from Letterkenny to Lifford. But those promises have gone the same way as Dublin's Metro and Dart underground light rail proposals, as well as other major infrastructure projects put on ice under spending restrictions imposed by the EU/IMF rescue package.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Minder on November 11, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
According to Ken Reid the Irish government has now pledged the money for the A5  ???
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 07:03:49 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
According to Ken Reid the Irish government has now pledged the money for the A5  ???

Disgraceful parochial politics from Messer Kenny, his republican Ulster roots are coming through.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 11, 2011, 07:06:02 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
According to Ken Reid the Irish government has now pledged the money for the A5  ???

Speculation it could only be from Strabane to Derry.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 11, 2011, 07:08:23 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 11, 2011, 07:06:02 PM
Quote from: Minder on November 11, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
According to Ken Reid the Irish government has now pledged the money for the A5  ???

Speculation it could only be from Strabane to Derry.

& then to Castlebar!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on November 11, 2011, 07:48:33 PM
mayogodhelpus

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MxvIJJqRSYE/Tjr4pT2TJAI/AAAAAAAAAFw/a-S9-iGBYxM/s1600/Look-at-Me.jpg)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2011, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 11, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
There is a simple solution.

If the new road was going to be 54 miles long with NI Executive going to pay £450 million and the RoI government was providing £400 million, then why not start off by the NI Executive paying for 27 miles of dual carriageway. 

1. Forget the road from Ballygawley to Aughnacloy. 

2. Build the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Newtownstewart (27 miles) or just beyond Omagh and connect back from Derry to Strabane.  Leave RoI with an incentive to complete either end of the proposed route when it gets the money.

3. Leave the end of the road suitable for continuation when the remaining funds become available or extend it to the border at Strabane by making routing savings or borrowing the rest of the money.

This extends the motorway and dual carriageway from Belfast into the heart of the West making the most of the new dual carriageway from M1 to Ballygawley.

This will provide an infrastructure into West Tyrone which will provide a lifeline for some minimal level of economic development.  To build any more roads in the northern sector of NI builds on years of discrimination against the south west of N.Ireland.  You only have to travel anywhere above Lough Neagh to see the difference in affluence, industry and infrastructure.

This is a test for SF to show it can use the Executive to correct years of wrongs or it lets the money go to the East and shows that the SF ministers and MPs are full of hot air unable to deliver when it matters.  SF owe it to Omagh to extend the road from Ballygawley after the SF Minister took the hospital from the heart of West Tyrone, sent it to Enniskillen away from the major populated areas and left Tyrone without a hospital.

The voters in the West should be prepared to make SF pay for any failure to extend the road from Ballygawley. No road means no economic future.
That would require voters voting on real issues rather than along idealogical lines. We're not good at that round these parts.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Norf Tyrone on November 12, 2011, 01:11:46 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 11, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
There is a simple solution.

If the new road was going to be 54 miles long with NI Executive going to pay £450 million and the RoI government was providing £400 million, then why not start off by the NI Executive paying for 27 miles of dual carriageway. 

1. Forget the road from Ballygawley to Aughnacloy. 

2. Build the dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Newtownstewart (27 miles) or just beyond Omagh and connect back from Derry to Strabane.  Leave RoI with an incentive to complete either end of the proposed route when it gets the money.

3. Leave the end of the road suitable for continuation when the remaining funds become available or extend it to the border at Strabane by making routing savings or borrowing the rest of the money.

This extends the motorway and dual carriageway from Belfast into the heart of the West making the most of the new dual carriageway from M1 to Ballygawley.

This will provide an infrastructure into West Tyrone which will provide a lifeline for some minimal level of economic development.  To build any more roads in the northern sector of NI builds on years of discrimination against the south west of N.Ireland.  You only have to travel anywhere above Lough Neagh to see the difference in affluence, industry and infrastructure.

This is a test for SF to show it can use the Executive to correct years of wrongs or it lets the money go to the East and shows that the SF ministers and MPs are full of hot air unable to deliver when it matters.  SF owe it to Omagh to extend the road from Ballygawley after the SF Minister took the hospital from the heart of West Tyrone, sent it to Enniskillen away from the major populated areas and left Tyrone without a hospital.

The voters in the West should be prepared to make SF pay for any failure to extend the road from Ballygawley. No road means no economic future.

Good reasoning and good sense there TYP. The dual carriageway from Ballygawley to the motorway is superb as a side point.

This in the hospitals issue is the real politics that the 'end of the troubles' has allowed us to tackle. Your spot on when you argue that this is a test of Sinn Fein. We'll see.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on November 12, 2011, 09:18:50 AM
As someone who would have benefitted greatly from the WTC, both professionally and from day to day use, it is annoying to see it pulled. Looking at it from an engineers point of view the design and scope of the project is from an era when money wasnt an object. It would never have even been proposed without the money from Dublin. The whole project was pushed for political rather than engineering reasons and there are other parts of the NI roads network in far greater need of less expensive work to bring them up to standard.

There is no need for a HQDC from Aughnacloy to Ballygawley, not now and even with the expected traffic volumes in 20 years. If it was ommitted you would save in the region of £200/220 million straight away, although there would be a smaller scheme of approx £10/15 million required to straighten parts of the existing road.

What is required for the A5 in its current state is

A complete bypass of Omagh with GSJ connecting the roads to Cookstown and Enniskillen.

A complete bypass of Strabane with GSJ connecting the road to Lifford, the current design for the WTC could simply be adopted as it would serve this purpose well and allow for future development.

A new road from Strabane to Derry, there is no real scope for online improvements on this stretch of the A5 and a new road would be the most cost effective option. It would make good sense to finish this future proofed for connection to the A6 to the east and for the proposed third road bridge over the Foyle.

The problem now faced is that there is a pot of £400 million that needs to be spent with in the next 5 years. There is no guarantee that this will stay with DRD for roads but if it does it will have to be spent on schemes that are nearly ready to go to tender, anything that hasnt already had a public inquiry if one is required wont stand a chance of completion in the timescale.

The schemes most advanced at the minute are the upgrade of the A6 Randalstown to Castledawson and the A2 at Greenisland.

The Irish Goverment are playing a cute game and are likely to come out shortly and offer a much reduced figure to show their political commitment to the scheme but not enough to complete any substantial works.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2011, 09:37:11 AM
Good post oakleafgael from an "insider".

It is believed by the BBC that Enda is only offering in the region of €50 million which is a bit shy of the original amount!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:17:24 AM
All they need to do is lower their ambitions for the road in line with actual need (i.e. volume of traffic). I read somewhere else that at the end of the Dual Carriageway at Ballygawley, more traffic uses the road to Enniskillen than the road to Omagh. Along a lot of the proposed route, the volume of traffic comes nowhere close to the levels to that would be required to justify this standard of road in the appraisal of other schemes.

Use the money to bypass the towns and add in 2+1 lane sections along the entire length with maybe Dual Carriageway on town bypasses and heading into Derry.

I use the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section a lot and the idea that it needs Dual Carriageway is ridiculous. Straighten / widen the road, cut out the village and create a few overtaking lanes. Considering this has already been done for the first mile on that road, it would be a relatively cheap and proportionate solution to bring the road up to an appropriate standard.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:36:06 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2011, 09:37:11 AM
It is believed by the BBC that Enda is only offering in the region of €50 million which is a bit shy of the original amount!
Yep, looks like £42m - half in 2015, the other half in 2016, so it's not even in the current NI budget period.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on November 12, 2011, 10:31:17 PM
the reduced offer coming in late is a good 'out' for Stormont. There is no reason Stormont couldn't spend their half anyway by-passing Omagh and Strabane, perhaps dualling Ballygawley to Omagh or Strabane to Derry but no doubt that £400m will be spent furter east.
Dublin was also supposed to part finance the M8 extension to Larne, what is the status of that project?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on February 13, 2012, 10:42:51 PM
I'm hearing that Sammy Wilson is making an announcement tomorrow that the duelling of this road is back on, from Ballygawley to Omagh, possibly to Derry.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 08:13:37 AM
Heard this too. In fact its been common knowledge that it is back on. Seems there was some high stakes bluffing going on all along. The contractor for the Ballygawley to Omagh section has been actively recruiting for the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on February 14, 2012, 09:28:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:17:24 AM
I read somewhere else that at the end of the Dual Carriageway at Ballygawley, more traffic uses the road to Enniskillen than the road to Omagh.
Would be interested in reading that if you can find a link, or even remember the paper?
I'd be surprised if it were true.


This is good news if it goes ahead. I know there are definitely valid arguments against the need for a full dual carriageway, but feck it, if we can get it we'll take it!

Do many posters on here do a daily commute along the A5 to Belfast? Does it do your head in? I only go up on a Monday & down on a Friday ATM, but thinking of doing the daily commute from April on.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on February 14, 2012, 09:29:53 AM
Excellent news if true. :)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 10:10:24 AM
Good boost for employment in the area. Might stop the drain of young people heading overseas.

One thing, if the tender was sent out for re-pricing the taxpayer would save millions.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: WeeDonns on February 14, 2012, 09:28:55 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 12, 2011, 10:17:24 AM
I read somewhere else that at the end of the Dual Carriageway at Ballygawley, more traffic uses the road to Enniskillen than the road to Omagh.
Would be interested in reading that if you can find a link, or even remember the paper?
I'd be surprised if it were true.


This is good news if it goes ahead. I know there are definitely valid arguments against the need for a full dual carriageway, but feck it, if we can get it we'll take it!

Do many posters on here do a daily commute along the A5 to Belfast? Does it do your head in? I only go up on a Monday & down on a Friday ATM, but thinking of doing the daily commute from April on.

The Omagh to Ballygawley bit does my head in. Ballygawley to Dungannon is superb considering what was there before.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: rrhf on February 14, 2012, 10:56:34 AM
If they do widen the road into Derry, how do you stop the exodus?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on February 14, 2012, 11:28:47 AM
Wilson announces more than £580m investment in roads and hospitals

Sammy Wilson announced the £580 investment in the assembly on Tuesday
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

A5 funding announcement expected
The finance minister has revealed a series of capital investments in hospitals and the road network.

Sammy Wilson confirmed over £500m of investment in the assembly on Tuesday.

He told MLAs that £330m will be spent upgrading two sections of the A5 between Londonderry and Strabane, as well as Omagh and Ballygawley.

More than £28m will be spent on the Altnagelvin Hospital in Londonderry and about £60m will go to the new Omagh Hospital and the Ulster Hospital.

Another £57m will be spent on improving the A2 Carrickfergus to Belfast road and £105m will go towards the A8 Belfast to Larne dual carriageway.

Mr Wilson said that the investment will have "significant economic benefits for Northern Ireland", including the creation of 2,500 jobs in the construction sector.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17026868

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on February 14, 2012, 11:44:26 AM
That is great. Should help a lot of folk back into work. :)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on February 14, 2012, 11:55:51 AM
Off course what should be done now is to start a fund raising effort to try and get the money together from the people in the border regions to continue the rest of the road to Aughnacloy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on February 14, 2012, 12:01:04 PM
You wouldn't need a dual carriage way that far. The new alignment  on the aughnacloy road already takes you to about 1.5 miles outside the town. all you would need is to widen that last stretch which passes the golf club.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 14, 2012, 11:28:47 AM
Wilson announces more than £580m investment in roads and hospitals

Sammy Wilson announced the £580 investment in the assembly on Tuesday
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

A5 funding announcement expected
The finance minister has revealed a series of capital investments in hospitals and the road network.

Sammy Wilson confirmed over £500m of investment in the assembly on Tuesday.

He told MLAs that £330m will be spent upgrading two sections of the A5 between Londonderry and Strabane, as well as Omagh and Ballygawley.

More than £28m will be spent on the Altnagelvin Hospital in Londonderry and about £60m will go to the new Omagh Hospital and the Ulster Hospital.

Another £57m will be spent on improving the A2 Carrickfergus to Belfast road and £105m will go towards the A8 Belfast to Larne dual carriageway.

Mr Wilson said that the investment will have "significant economic benefits for Northern Ireland", including the creation of 2,500 jobs in the construction sector.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17026868

So we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road! :(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
QuoteSo we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road!

How do you conclude that?
The Derry - Strabane work will be a new route to bypass the kips villages on the existing road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
QuoteSo we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road!

How do you conclude that?
The Derry - Strabane work will be a new route to bypass the kips villages on the existing road.

I am basing it on the wording "upgrading sections of the road" rather than "dualing" I hope I  am wrong, there are so many entrances and exits on the Ballygawley Omagh section that making the road faster only makes it more dangerous.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on February 14, 2012, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 12:51:14 PM
So we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road! :(

My take on the statement is, the Derry - Strabane phase and the Omagh - Ballygawley phase will be upgraded to a duel-carriageway, but the Omagh - Strabane of the A5 road wil remain unchanged.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on February 14, 2012, 01:14:47 PM
You may be right there Leo. If you read the full article belfast to larne is getting a dual carriageway (WHY????) while the A5 is being upgraded.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on February 14, 2012, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
QuoteSo we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road!

How do you conclude that?
The Derry - Strabane work will be a new route to bypass the kips villages on the existing road.

Ahem, from one of those kips, born and bred.  Loving the new road though!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 14, 2012, 11:28:47 AM
Wilson announces more than £580m investment in roads and hospitals

Sammy Wilson announced the £580 investment in the assembly on Tuesday
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

A5 funding announcement expected
The finance minister has revealed a series of capital investments in hospitals and the road network.

Sammy Wilson confirmed over £500m of investment in the assembly on Tuesday.

He told MLAs that £330m will be spent upgrading two sections of the A5 between Londonderry and Strabane, as well as Omagh and Ballygawley.

More than £28m will be spent on the Altnagelvin Hospital in Londonderry and about £60m will go to the new Omagh Hospital and the Ulster Hospital.

Another £57m will be spent on improving the A2 Carrickfergus to Belfast road and £105m will go towards the A8 Belfast to Larne dual carriageway.

Mr Wilson said that the investment will have "significant economic benefits for Northern Ireland", including the creation of 2,500 jobs in the construction sector.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17026868

So we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road! :(

Any section "upgraded" will be to dual carraigeway standard, similar to the A4 upgrade from Ballygawley to Dungannon.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 01:45:28 PM
What I have seen is that the section from Newbuildings to Sion Mills will proceed as originally planned, McCann, Bam and Balfour Beatty. The middle section from Sion Mills to south of Omagh has been shelved, for how long is a good question. The  section that originally was to go from south of Omagh to Aughnacloy will now be shortened to Ballygawley, a sensibile enough decision as the last section to Aughnacloy was unjustified for the expected traffic demands. Farrans and Grahams are the Contractor for that section.

The detail that remains to be ironed out is how the new road will join the existing Omagh "throughpass". It will be a complete bottle neck and it would be much better to continue the new road to the north of Omagh and join back into the existing A5 somewhere around the UAFP.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on February 14, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 01:45:28 PM
The detail that remains to be ironed out is how the new road will join the existing Omagh "throughpass". It will be a complete bottle neck and it would be much better to continue the new road to the north of Omagh and join back into the existing A5 somewhere around the UAFP.

Don't join it! Just by-pass the whole town and leave the throughpass as a local road, for local people  ;)
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/games/wallpaper/images/league640.jpg)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 14, 2012, 02:54:25 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 01:32:53 PM


Any section "upgraded" will be to dual carraigeway standard, similar to the A4 upgrade from Ballygawley to Dungannon.
The figures quoted by the BBC would seem to back that up. £330m is a lot of over-taking lanes.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
The southern firms (Roadbridge, Sisk and PT McWilliams (northern)) lose out on their section. Probably because the South never ponied up. Silver lining for PT is that they get to work on the other two sections now as the original agreement prohibited their involvement in any section other than the one they won. Bad news for other smaller contractors is that PT will come in at crazy rates for the much shifting etc and just not pay anyone. Great business model.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on February 14, 2012, 04:36:17 PM
Not so sure it will be that easy for PT Moortown Spuds  . He has burned a lot of bridges at this stage and everyone knows his form.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 04:56:24 PM
Needs must EC. And the thought in the back of the head saying to yourself if i keep working away for him I'll get some of my money will take over.

All the while they be using Range Rovers as site vechiles while their subbies struggle to keep their head above water.

Poor form.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
The southern firms (Roadbridge, Sisk and PT McWilliams (northern)) lose out on their section. Probably because the South never ponied up. Silver lining for PT is that they get to work on the other two sections now as the original agreement prohibited their involvement in any section other than the one they won. Bad news for other smaller contractors is that PT will come in at crazy rates for the much shifting etc and just not pay anyone. Great business model.

PT wont be entertained by the Farrans/Graham JV after the JV with Grahams in the south, it didn't exactly go well. Blackwells will be their subbie of choice. I dont see any door being opened by the McCann JV either.

A fair bit of PT's plant has been moved through Euro Auctions in Leeds and another batch is in the next auction in Dromore.

No one wants to touch them and rightfully so. They shit on all around them including their neighbours and would do well to keep their heads down.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
The southern firms (Roadbridge, Sisk and PT McWilliams (northern)) lose out on their section. Probably because the South never ponied up. Silver lining for PT is that they get to work on the other two sections now as the original agreement prohibited their involvement in any section other than the one they won. Bad news for other smaller contractors is that PT will come in at crazy rates for the much shifting etc and just not pay anyone. Great business model.

PT wont be entertained by the Farrans/Graham JV after the JV with Grahams in the south, it didn't exactly go well. Blackwells will be their subbie of choice. I dont see any door being opened by the McCann JV either.

A fair bit of PT's plant has been moved through Euro Auctions in Leeds and another batch is in the next auction in Dromore.

No one wants to touch them and rightfully so. They shit on all around them including their neighbours and would do well to keep their heads down.

I hear their JV in Cavan with Ferrovial is a nightmare project. Feel for their staff, must be a nightmare trying to procure a litre of diesel. Too big, Too quick.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 08:37:31 PM
Quote from: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on February 14, 2012, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Moortown Spuds on February 14, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
The southern firms (Roadbridge, Sisk and PT McWilliams (northern)) lose out on their section. Probably because the South never ponied up. Silver lining for PT is that they get to work on the other two sections now as the original agreement prohibited their involvement in any section other than the one they won. Bad news for other smaller contractors is that PT will come in at crazy rates for the much shifting etc and just not pay anyone. Great business model.

PT wont be entertained by the Farrans/Graham JV after the JV with Grahams in the south, it didn't exactly go well. Blackwells will be their subbie of choice. I dont see any door being opened by the McCann JV either.

A fair bit of PT's plant has been moved through Euro Auctions in Leeds and another batch is in the next auction in Dromore.

No one wants to touch them and rightfully so. They shit on all around them including their neighbours and would do well to keep their heads down.

I hear their JV in Cavan with Ferrovial is a nightmare project. Feel for their staff, must be a nightmare trying to procure a litre of diesel. Too big, Too quick.

Its a walk in the park compared to the shenanigans in Poland. I have some sympathy for the ordinary Joe Soap who is trying to earn a wage with them but less than none for anyone who has any position of responsibility.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on February 14, 2012, 11:56:16 PM
@sammywilsonmp
Red sauce is red, harp cans are blue, if you're from Omagh, here's a significant capital investment in your local road infastructure for you

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: tyssam5 on February 15, 2012, 12:13:49 AM
Quote from: Rois on February 14, 2012, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2012, 12:53:55 PM
QuoteSo we are not getting the new dual carriage-way then, just a few more over-taking lanes to speed up the existing road!

How do you conclude that?
The Derry - Strabane work will be a new route to bypass the kips villages on the existing road.

Ahem, from one of those kips, born and bred.  Loving the new road though!

Born, bred and long gone?  :)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on July 19, 2012, 01:00:25 AM
Reasons to support the A5 WTC dual-carriageway


The DRD is currently bringing forward a plan to build an entirely new grade-separarated dual-carriageway along the route of the A5, from Derry to Aughnacloy. The scheme is known as the A5 Western Transport Corridor, or A5 WTC.

This week the BBC reported that the Public Inquiry into the A5 upgrade, which took place in Spring 2011, will approve most of the road, although recommending that the stretch from Ballygawley to Aughnacloy be postponed, and asking the DRD to revisit the issue of compensation for landowners. I would expect a formal announcement on this subject within the next few days or weeks.

This particular scheme has attracted a storm of controversy. Supporters say that it will encourage investment in the West by providing better transport links, and improve road safety. Critics point to the large number of landowners – mostly farmers – who will be adversely affected, and what they regard as the excessive £844m price tag. Some also argue that anything that encourages the use of private cars should be avoided.

Throughout the years, one of the main reasons for such a divergence of views is not so much disagreement with the specific points made by the "other side", but rather how much weight they give to those points. This is because the two sides are using fundamentally different evaluation techniques.

Roads Service's arguments for the scheme are generally concrete and numeric, based on cost-benefit analyses and road safety statistics. Arguments against the scheme are generally more sociological and ideological, based on the impact on individuals, society and the environment. It is hard for concrete/numeric arguments to be weighed against sociological/ideological arguments in any meaningful way. Hence disagreement, impassioned debate and a lack of consensus is almost guaranteed in such proposals.

What I will be doing below is outlining the main arguments for proceeding with the A5 scheme. Counter-arguments are being adequately presented elsewhere. Everyone should make their own judgement based on common sense.

The current road is a single-carriageway road (i.e. one lane each way separated by a white line) and is all-purpose (i.e. all types of vehicle are permitted to use it – lorries, vans, cars, motorbikes, bicycles, tractors, horse-drawn vehicles, pedestrians etc). I have not measured journey times along the A5, but I would estimate that the average vehicle speed lies somewhere between 40 and 50mph. The new road will safely permit sustained speeds of up to 70mph for cars.

Benefit-Cost Analysis

The DRD has used a benefit-cost analysis to support the scheme. A benefit-cost analysis is achieved by estimating the average travel time saving along the route, and multiplying this by the number of vehicles predicted to use the route over the evaluation period (e.g. 20 years). This is then multiplied by a typical hourly wage figure (e.g., the minimum wage) to achieve a total saving to the economy over the period. Added to this, then, are the additional benefits to the economy, for example new businesses and jobs attracted to the area by the new road. Also added in are the money saved by the state from dealing with fewer accidents, in terms of the effect of road closures, and the cost to property and the NHS.

For the A5, the benefit-cost ratio was around 1.99*, which means that it will likely bring almost twice as much benefit as it will cost to build. Thus it is calculated to bring around £1.68 billion of benefits over the evaluation period, compared to its cost of £844m.

While this is a very useful sum, and all of these are real benefits, personally I have never been that convinced of the usefulness of this figure. Of course the haulage industry will make real, tangible cost savings from reduced journey times and delays, but most other drivers will not. Most people base their time of departure on their desired arrival time, and then subtract the journey time. Saving 15 minutes on the journey will probably just mean leaving 15 minutes later. In most cases, this will probably not mean a real, tangible saving of actual money. It might just mean an extra 15 minutes in bed, or a more leisurely lunch. The "benefit" figure, therefore, is merely symbolic, a way of making the intangible tangible.

The journey time saving is used in equally silly ways by the scheme's opponents. Some take the total cost of the scheme and divide by the time saving that could be achieved by someone driving the full length of the A5, and then stating things like "the road is costing £50m per minute", as if the entire road is being built for the benefit of a single motorist on one journey. This quite consciously makes the scheme sound ridiculous, but is a fairly meaningless figure when you consider that literally tens of millions of people will be using the new road over the next 20, 30 or 40 years. It also falsely suggests that shaving 15 minutes off a journey is the principal motivation of the scheme.

I believe there are two key arguments for proceeding, which I outline below. Of course there are other points to consider, such as whether now is the time to go ahead, or whether this is the road to be spending the money on, or whether farmers will be adequately compensated, but those are questions for another blog entry. For now, these are two of the best reasons to proceed.

1. Improved Road Safety

The current road has a poor safety record. Between 2004 and 2009, 19 people lost their lives on the A5 between Derry and Aughnacloy, an average of about one every 16 weeks. When total traffic levels are taken into account, we can calculate that 8.4 people are currently dying on the A5 for every billion kilometres travelled, which is around the average for roads of this type in Northern Ireland.

The graphic below shows where these deaths took place (along with the average vehicles per day, vpd, on each stretch):

(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/a5-aadt-accidents.gif)

Map showing (a) total deaths in the period 2004-2009, and (b) indicative 2009 traffic volumes on various sections of the A5. Note that one of the deaths between Ballygawley and Aughnacloy was on the treacherous stretch at Tullyvar which has since been removed.

Although we often hear news stories that suggest that "speed" is the dominant cause of deaths on our roads, in fact this is not the case. The roads with the highest speeds in Northern Ireland are also the roads with the lowest death rates – motorways have a death rate ten times lower than single-carriageway roads like the A5. Hence other factors must be at work. Most accidents are caused by poor or careless driving. But because drivers are human it is unavoidable that they occasionally make mistakes and poor judgements. The trick, therefore, is to minimise the opportunities for drivers to make errors. Experience has shown that the most effective way to reduce accidents on major roads is to systematically eliminate the causes of conflict between different vehicles. These include things like:

Minimising high speed differences by preventing vehicles from having to come to a near standstill on the road to turn on or off the road, usually achieved with slip roads.

Minimising the risk of striking a turning vehicle by banning right-turns, by providing flyovers to let drivers turn right without crossing opposing traffic.

Minimising the risk of head-on collisions by providing a central safety barrier, and also by providing a dedicated second lane in each direction to permit safe overtaking.Minimising the number of junctions by banning most or all private accesses, and limiting access to local roads to a few carefully selected locations.

Minimising accidents resulting from leaving the road at bends by allowing only gentle, sweeping curves with plenty of forward visibility.

It is trivial to demonstrate the positive effect of these simple measures by comparing the death rates for various types of road in Northern Ireland (in each case per billion km travelled):

Motorways – 0.8 deaths
A-Class Dual Carriageways – 4.2 deaths
A-Class "normal" roads, like the A5 – 8.9 deaths
B-Class and below – 6.0 deaths

So normal (i.e. single-carriageway) A-class roads have the worst safety record of any type of road while motorways, which have all of the features outlined above, have the best. Clearly, then, upgrading the A5 will lead to lives being saved. The proposed A5 will be of a higher standard than the "A-Class Dual Carriageway" in the above list, in that most A-Class DC's in Northern Ireland still allow right-turns and T-junctions. In fact, the proposed standard is just a little below that of a motorway; the only significant differences being that slow vehicles such as tractors are banned from motorways but will not be banned from the upgraded A5, and that the new road will not feature hard shoulders.

It is obvious that upgrading the existing A5 could not achieve the standard necessary to reduce deaths significantly. There would still have to be plenty of T-junctions, lots of private accesses, steeper curves, poorer forward visibility and (incidentally) significantly more property demolition. An upgrade of the existing road would offer some benefits, but would result in a more dangerous road than that which is proposed, offer fewer benefits than the proposed scheme, and lead to more deaths than the proposed scheme.

But even if we take the figure for A-Class DCs as the reduced death rate that will result from upgrading the A5 (and it's probably too high) the number of deaths over the six years following construction could be expected to fall from 19 to 9. In other words, after six years ten people will still be alive who would have been dead had the upgrade not taken place. To facetiously borrow the phraseology of the road's critics, this works out at £84m to save a human life.

2. Reduced Driver Stress

Some have (correctly) pointed out that the majority of the A5 is currently running below capacity. A single-carriageway road such as the A5 will generally perform adequately up to about 13,000 vehicles per day. As you will see from the map above, only the Omagh and Strabane throughpasses, and the stretch connecting those two towns, exceed this level. It is notable that the short stretch from Ballygawley to Aughnacloy is much lower than the others.

However, this is not an argument for saying that the upgraded road is not needed. A capacity figure is purely a reference to traffic congestion. It does not say anything about the general safety of the road, although increased traffic will tend to increase conflicts and hence accidents. Neither does it say anything about driver stress, which is a more important consideration for investment.

Driver stress is created whenever a driver is forced to drive in a manner that is below the way they would "like" to drive. Drivers are humans, not machines, and they respond like humans, not like machines. Anyone who has been stuck behind a tractor on a twisty road will understand how being forced to drive more slowly than you would like to can soon result in feelings of irritation and perhaps frustration.

Being stuck behind a slow vehicle with no means to get past is only one of many ways that driver stress manifests itself. Roads that require more concentration than others, perhaps because of numerous curves or lots of blind corners, create a more stressful driving experience. Being stuck at a junction waiting for a gap to turn out is another. Inching slowly through towns and villages on a long-distance journey is yet another. Each element by itself is not that significant, but added together a particular road may offer hundreds of tiny stress elements that add up and add up to create an overall stressful driving experience.

It is my view that the greater the amount of driver stress offered by a road, the greater the potential for accidents and the less willing people are to use the road. Why do most people choose motorways rather than parallel roads to go long distances? Because it's quicker, safer and less stressful.

This is why the A5WTC will lead to increased investment in the West. By making it less stressful to get to/from towns like Omagh and Strabane, it will be enough to tip the balance for a lot of people who hitherto were not prepared to make the journey. This will make it more likely that new businesses will locate, or choose to remain, in towns such as these. It will also give greater freedom to the people living there, as leisure pursuits further away from their homes will come within each.

Bizarrely, providing a new road is one of the few areas where it is regarded as A Bad Thing if investment in a service results in more people using it. If you improve a shopping centre, or a visitor attraction, or a hospital, or a school you would not expect people to criticise it if it then attracted more people. Roads are a service, and they are meant to be used. In fact, there would be something wrong if a new road did not attract more traffic.

If the upgraded A5 succeeds, i.e. if traffic levels increase after it opens, it will be a signal that people are being given greater opportunities for commerce and leisure, and that people are investing in the West.

*A5 Public Inquiry transcripts, 9 May 2011, p132

Sourced: wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com (http://wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/reasons-to-support-the-a5-wtc-dual-carriageway/)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 19, 2012, 08:46:58 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 19, 2012, 06:38:08 AM
Typical political interference in a sensible solution when the section of the road which had almost 22,000 vehicles per day in 2009 is not being completed, i.e the Omagh bypass when the Strabane to Derry section is going ahead with the least traffic flow. The traffic flow from RoI would appear to be the core of the flow along the road to the border and beyond yet they have ignored their commitment in the recent announcement of infrastructure investment.

I thought it was running from New Buildings to Ballygawley and only the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy bit was being postponed.
Are you saying the new road is going to link into the existing Omagh through-pass?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on July 19, 2012, 09:31:42 AM
As it stands
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to new buildings
are the only section to be done.

You can see what is going on, the DUP do not want this road to benefit any southern traffic and it really is a spine road that will link the whole island of Ireland. Its as simple as that, they can come out a say its economic reason but we all know it just the good old Protestants trying to protect there wee country.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2012, 09:36:29 AM
QuoteThe traffic flow from RoI would appear to be the core of the flow along the road to the border and beyond yet they have ignored their commitment in the recent announcement of infrastructure investment.

The recent "investment" in the 26 counties isn't really more spending, as they don't have the money, but more off balance sheet borrowing in the form of PPP projects and soft EIB money. This EIB money originated from a wish at EU level to promote infrastructural development to boost the economy and get work done when costs are reduced. If the Stormont crowd get such a EIB loan and proceed with the A5, Dublin would provide the annual payments for their part of the loan.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 19, 2012, 11:31:18 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on July 19, 2012, 09:31:42 AM
As it stands
Ballygawley to Omagh
Strabane to new buildings
are the only section to be done.

You can see what is going on, the DUP do not want this road to benefit any southern traffic and it really is a spine road that will link the whole island of Ireland. Its as simple as that, they can come out a say its economic reason but we all know it just the good old Protestants trying to protect there wee country.

Was the Omagh to Strabane route the one which had the most UU NIMBY's?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 19, 2012, 12:44:26 PM
Shocking decision to not by-pass Omagh (insert obvious joke here) but that junction on the Omagh through-pass has to be one of the worst feats of traffic engineering ever developed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on July 19, 2012, 11:13:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 19, 2012, 12:44:26 PM
Shocking decision to not by-pass Omagh (insert obvious joke here) but that junction on the Omagh through-pass has to be one of the worst feats of traffic engineering ever developed.

I presume you're talking about the ridiculously short overtaking lane on the Strabane side of Homebase? Many a learner driver has had their pass on their driving test destroyed by that lane ending, with the test centre less than a mile in sight!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on July 20, 2012, 12:39:52 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 19, 2012, 11:13:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 19, 2012, 12:44:26 PM
Shocking decision to not by-pass Omagh (insert obvious joke here) but that junction on the Omagh through-pass has to be one of the worst feats of traffic engineering ever developed.

I presume you're talking about the ridiculously short overtaking lane on the Strabane side of Homebase? Many a learner driver has had their pass on their driving test destroyed by that lane ending, with the test centre less than a mile in sight!

Yeah, that one is a nightmare. Always shards of broken glass there, from some collision. It's a wonder no-one has been seriously hurt there... yet.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on July 31, 2012, 02:05:23 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19062494

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on July 31, 2012, 02:44:32 PM
You beat me to it OG.  ;D

Great to see part of this road has finally been given the go ahead and the work is to start this year. Hopefully the money will be found to link Omagh and Sion Mills, plus Ballygawley and Aughnacloy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on July 31, 2012, 02:49:53 PM
Great news. As a Ballygawley person this can only be good. We have been blessed with road improvements with this and the upgrade of the A4 Ballygawley to Dungannon.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on July 31, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
The 'Throughpass' has been a disaster since before it was finished. That junction had an accident a week when it was a roundabout.
Maybe it could be improved by keeping the lights green for through-traffic for longer, although that'll mean longer waits for those crossing the junctions or heading for Enniskillen.

Great to hear they're going ahead with the Omagh to Ballygawley bit, the new Ballygawley to Dungannon road has been a great improvement to the trip to Belfast, so this should make it even easier 

Omagh's still going to be a nightmare for those travelling further west though
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on March 12, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
Bit of a hold up now it seems :-\
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21754435 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21754435)

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on March 12, 2013, 02:21:29 PM
Hopefully come 20th March, the A5 road gets the go ahead.

Crucial for the West to get a proper road infrastructure in place to aid the economic growth of the region and to ensure road safety. Too many accidents on this road in recent years.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on March 12, 2013, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on March 12, 2013, 02:01:01 PM
Bit of a hold up now it seems :-\
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21754435 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21754435)

Wayleave fencing and hedge/tree removal is well progressed. The Ballygawley to Omagh section can start immediately going by the ruling today, although I have only seen the report of it on the bbc website and not the full ruling.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on March 12, 2013, 04:04:46 PM
Wesley Johnston -  The judge has rejected all but one challenge against the scheme. He has ruled that the public inquiry was not unfair, that the environmental impact assessment is valid and that the landowners' rights have not been breached. The only one upheld is uncertainty over whether the assessment of the impact on the Rivers Finn and Foyle were valid, and the judge has given the DRD eight days to provide evidence that it was. It should be noted that both these rivers are on the Derry-Strabane stretch. There are now no outstanding challenges to the Omagh-Ballygawley section, so there is no reason why work on that stretch could not go ahead if the DRD can convince the judge of this.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on March 12, 2013, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 12, 2013, 04:04:46 PM
Wesley Johnston -  The judge has rejected all but one challenge against the scheme. He has ruled that the public inquiry was not unfair, that the environmental impact assessment is valid and that the landowners' rights have not been breached. The only one upheld is uncertainty over whether the assessment of the impact on the Rivers Finn and Foyle were valid, and the judge has given the DRD eight days to provide evidence that it was. It should be noted that both these rivers are on the Derry-Strabane stretch. There are now no outstanding challenges to the Omagh-Ballygawley section, so there is no reason why work on that stretch could not go ahead if the DRD can convince the judge of this.

And the Judge could be minded to slap a hefty legal bill on the AAA5A.
"In relation to the issue of costs I will hear counsel both generally as to costs and specifically as to whether the costs involved in these proceedings were unnecessarily increased by the number of issues which were raised by the applicants. "
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on March 20, 2013, 12:51:25 PM
Case adjourned until 12th April;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21850668
QuoteA5 road project: Court challenge is adjourned
A5 road No work can be done on the scheme until after the court case

The Department for Regional Development (DRD) has been given more time to make submissions in a legal case over the A5 dual carriageway.

A group of farmers and landowners is challenging the redevelopment of the A5 between Londonderry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

Last week, a judge said the department had not carried out a proper Habitats Directive assessment.

But the case was adjourned on Wednesday as a DRD barrister was unavailable.

The judge had previously said he was minded to quash the decision to proceed with the project because, he said, the department had failed to carry out an appropriate assessment of the rivers Foyle and Finn special areas of conservation under the Habitats Directive.

However, he gave the DRD until Wednesday to make further submissions on the matter.

He had rejected all the other grounds of appeal from those objecting to the project.

On Wednesday, a DRD lawyer conceded that if the judge found that there had not been an appropriate assessment carried out then a decision to proceed with the project had to be quashed.

However, the judge ordered that all work cease until the matter is resolved.

The DRD was also ordered to pay the adjournment hearing costs.

Another hearing will take place on 12 April.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on March 25, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Finance Minister says A5 plan should be scrapped and the £300m used elsewhere.

QuoteThe Executive should cut its losses on the troubled A5 road project and spend its massive £330m budget elsewhere, the Finance Minister has demanded.

As he took stock of Chancellor George Osborne's budget on Wednesday, Sammy Wilson also predicted Northern Ireland would eventually be handed the powers to set corporation tax at an acceptable price – but not quickly.

The DUP minister's proposal to ditch the A5 scheme – Northern Ireland's biggest roads project ever – risks a blazing row with Sinn Fein. The party is the strongest champion of the road, which runs through Sinn Fein constituencies for its entire route.

"They are not acting rationally on this issue. It is hard to get any logic out of them," Mr Wilson told the Belfast Telegraph.

He intends to raise the issue at the Executive and suggested spending on the A6 – which runs from Londonderry through Dungiven to Toome – would be a better use of the money.

As well as being Northern Ireland's biggest civil engineering project, the A5 work represents a major boost to the construction industry. Work is currently halted because of a court challenge from local protest groups on environmental grounds. At present the Department of Regional Development, where Danny Kennedy (right) of the UUP is minister, is seeking to reverse the order that halts the scheme.

"Even if the department wins in the end it could take around a year and a half to take that through the court and complete whatever additional environmental work is required.

"That would be much too late to spend the money on the A5 in this budget period," the Finance Minister said.

"It would be a total disaster to sit on £300m for a year or even two when we are crying out for work.

"I'd urge Danny Kennedy to look for another road scheme – and there is one that is sitting there which could proceed quickly.

"The A6 from Londonderry through Dungiven to Toome would improve the movement of goods, services and people just like the A5. It would improve the accessibility and productivity of the north west."

Quote from: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/scrap-troubled-a5-plan-and-use-300m-budget-elsewhere-wilson-29147192.htmlBelfast Telegraph
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 25, 2013, 11:47:04 AM
I say spend it on the A6, just as long as they dont build through Watty Graham Park  ;)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Billys Boots on March 25, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
Would the A6 not be crossing the river Foyle too?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on March 25, 2013, 12:02:04 PM
Bend over and squeeze Sammy, i'm sure there is more shit to dump on the west/south west.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 25, 2013, 12:30:44 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on March 25, 2013, 12:00:48 PM
Would the A6 not be crossing the river Foyle too?

Nope BB, it would terminate just at the river (as it currently does).
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 25, 2013, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 25, 2013, 12:02:04 PM
Bend over and squeeze Sammy, i'm sure there is more shit to dump on the west/south west.
I'm sure you mean North-West or SW Ulster  ;)

What is the projected time saving on the A5 stretch?

I had a wee look on Google Maps and from Dublin to Derry currently it stands at:

via M1 (Newry, Armagh, Dungannon, Cookstown, Maghera) it is 244km (3hrs 2mins)
via N2/A5 (Monaghan, Omagh, Strabane) it is 233km (3hrs 4mins)
via M1/A6 (Newry, Belfast, Maghera) it is 278km (3hrs 2mins)

Even traffic from elsewhere in Ireland via Mullingar or Athlone would go via some flavour of A5 upgrade?

Obviously Sammy is only thinking of Belfast to Derry traffic and doesn't recognise anything being south of Newry.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on April 08, 2013, 05:08:06 PM
Looks like the prods have got their wa again. Jesus what other country would put up with this crap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22063819 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22063819)

one thing for sure is that this has nothing to do with the environment...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
I see that Sammy is playing silly buggers with the Narrow Water Bridge too. It seems that the effects of partition will remain on the map of Ireland notwithstanding the supposed parity of esteem.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 07:36:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
I see that Sammy is playing silly buggers with the Narrow Water Bridge too. It seems that the effects of partition will remain on the map of Ireland notwithstanding the supposed parity of esteem.
Have to agree with him on that one. No justification for this project. All it will do will be to scupper the Newry southern relief road which is the project that is really needed in this general area
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 09, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
Disgusted and sickened with the news.  After all the promises of a motorway for the West, since the ripping out of the rail network many decades ago, there was the hope we were finally going to get a much needed investment on the road infrastructure,  with the A5 project.

Now that has taken away from us along with any hope of an economic resurgence West of Bann. We already were playing catch up as it was, but this has effectively driven the final nail in the coffin.

Expect to see more people emigrating to Australia, Canada and other places across the globe in the coming months. There is no future here.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 09, 2013, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 09, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
Disgusted and sickened with the news.  After all the promises of a motorway for the West, since the ripping out of the rail network many decades ago, there was the hope we were finally going to get a much needed investment on the road infrastructure,  with the A5 project.

Now that has taken away from us along with any hope of an economic resurgence West of Bann. We already were playing catch up as it was, but this has effectively driven the final nail in the coffin.

Expect to see more people emigrating to Australia, Canada and other places across the globe in the coming months. There is no future here.

Is is totally being shelved?? Surely not!! And they wonder why young people leave. Sometimes you wonder is a devolved government the answer when sectarian bitterness gets in the way of crucial infrastructure!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on April 09, 2013, 09:19:33 AM
I would expect that this is far from over.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2013, 10:22:49 AM
One wonders why the Roads Service did not respond to this sooner. The Omagh-Ballygawley section is not really involved with this rivers thing. They should have proposed to clear this section and proposed a new environmental impact assessment for the rest. They may still do this within the week, but you have to wonder if this delay did not have a political origin. 
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on April 09, 2013, 10:33:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2013, 10:22:49 AM
One wonders why the Roads Service did not respond to this sooner. The Omagh-Ballygawley section is not really involved with this rivers thing. They should have proposed to clear this section and proposed a new environmental impact assessment for the rest. They may still do this within the week, but you have to wonder if this delay did not have a political origin.

Why would you think that a UU Roads Minister would drag his heels to scupper a road to the detriment of 2 SF constituencies at the behest of a few UU NIMBY's in West Tryrone?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Maguire01 on April 09, 2013, 06:36:46 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 07:36:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
I see that Sammy is playing silly buggers with the Narrow Water Bridge too. It seems that the effects of partition will remain on the map of Ireland notwithstanding the supposed parity of esteem.
Have to agree with him on that one. No justification for this project. All it will do will be to scupper the Newry southern relief road which is the project that is really needed in this general area
Yes, but we're being handed a big wad of EU cash for this one.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 06:42:47 PM
Regardless of that its still a waste of money which can't be justified on traffic or economic grounds. Not surprised therefore that SEUPB would be supportive
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2013, 06:55:29 PM
QuoteAll it will do will be to scupper the Newry southern relief road which is the project that is really needed in this general area

This is funded by the EU Inter-reg fund, and it is a proper use of this fund whose precise purpose is to fund things that might otherwise fall between the cracks. Sammy only has to pay for a short link to the bridge. It has nothing to do with Newry southern relief road. In any case, Sammy doesn't give a fúçk about Newry or its relief.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
I agree that Sammy doesn't give 2 fs about Newry and the southern relief road but regardless of this the fact that the Narrow Water bridge scheme might fall between the cracks is no justification for funding it. As I said earlier there are no traffic or economic grounds on which the scheme can be justified, at least fron a Newry/Warrenpoint perspective and if you speak confidentially to any officials in Newry Council or any of the directors of WHA they will tell you that. The fact that the scheme has been promoted by LCC should also surely set the alarm bells ringing in terms of who has most to gain from its construction
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2013, 08:02:03 PM
QuoteI agree that Sammy doesn't give 2 fs about Newry and the southern relief road but regardless of this the fact that the Narrow Water bridge scheme might fall between the cracks is no justification for funding it.

It is. That what Inter-Reg is for!

Quote
The fact that the scheme has been promoted by LCC should also surely set the alarm bells ringing in terms of who has most to gain from its construction

I see that you and Sammy have a similar perspective in this matter.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 08:39:18 PM
I don't think Interreg criteria is designed to give one section of a border region an advantage over another. I'm above political bias in this case in the same way SF elected reps were when discussing the merits of John Lewis Sprucefield v John Lewis Dublin. But look lets just agree to disagree
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 09, 2013, 08:54:37 PM
Narrow Water Bridge Thread (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=1360.msg1175523#msg1175523)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 09, 2013, 08:59:32 PM
Quashed. What now for the A5? - Welsey Johnston

In my last blog post, four weeks ago, I talked about the outcome of the judicial review of the proposed dual-carriageway upgrade of the A5, the road that links Londonderry, Strabane, Omagh, Ballygawley and Aughnacloy. A legal challenge to the scheme had been brought by a group of landowners known as the Alternative A5 Alliance (AA5A). On 12 March the judge rejected 5 of their 6 challenges, but upheld one: he ruled that the DRD had failed to carry out an appropriate assessment of the Rivers Foyle and Finn Special Areas of Conservation under the Habitats Directive.

At the time of the ruling on 12 March, the judge gave the DRD eight extra days to provide additional evidence. In other words, he didn't immediately quash the project, but allowed the DRD some time to either come up with evidence that they had, in fact, complied with the Habitats Directive or to provide some alternative plan. Since the DRD themselves admitted during the hearing that they had not complied with the Habitats Directive, their only possible course of action was to suggest to the judge that they carry out a retrospective assessment of these two rivers, and this seems to be what they did.

In my previous blog I outlined the various options that the judge had. These ranged from accepting the additional evidence and letting the whole scheme go ahead, to quashing the decision to proceed in its entirety. Today the judge ruled that the additional evidence was not sufficient and has, in fact, quashed the decision to proceed with both stretches of road. According to the BBC, the judge cited "the potential for a public inquiry and potential scope for legal confusion". This is presumably a reference to the fact that the road has already passed its Public Inquiry, but yet an assessment under the Habitats Directive would need to be considered at a Public Inquiry. Of all the various possibilities, this is actually the worst-case scenario for the DRD, especially when you consider that the Habitats Directive had no relevance to the Omagh-Ballygawley section of the scheme, since the Habitats Directive only applies to the northerly Derry-Strabane section.

Implications

First, some clarification. Some media reports have implied that the ruling is a rejection of the whole concept of upgrading the A5 via a new dual-carriageway following a new route. It is not. It is vital to understand that this was a ruling against a procedural issue (not carrying out an assessment) rather than a ruling against the concept of the road, its route or its standard (since the road passed the Public Inquiry and all challenges related to this aspect were rejected). What was quashed was the Minister's decision in July 2012 to proceed with the scheme, not the scheme itself. Contrary to some media reports, today's ruling does nothing that would permanently prevent the road being built. All it has done is add – considerably – to the timescale. Since the problem was one of procedure, the DRD could choose to repeat the whole exercise, but this time complying with the necessary legislation. They could, of course, still decide to abandon the scheme, but more on that later.

Secondly, the immediate implications. The judge has decided to hold off on actually formally quashing the decision for one week to give the DRD an opportunity to appeal the decision, if they so wish. Their legal advisors will be able to give an opinion on whether there is any point in going down this road, but if they do it could further muddy the waters.

The members of the AA5A have been awarded costs (ie the DRD has to pay their legal costs), and presumably all work on the ground (fencing off vested land, site investigations etc) will have to stop (and may even have to be reversed).

Thirdly, the longer-term implcations for the project. The main steps carried out for the A5 were:

Assess options and decide route (2007 to early 2011).

Carry out all required environmental assessments (including Habitats Directive) and produce an Environmental Statement.
Hold a Public Inquiry (May & June 2011).

Public Inquiry Inspector submits his report, but it is not publicly released at this point.  Assuming the Inspector approves the project, the DRD alters the design to take into account any recommendations made. (Mar 2012)

Publication of the Public Inquiry Inspector's report. The Minister formally decides to proceed by publishing the relevant legal orders (ie, Direction Order; Vesting Order; Stopping-up of Private Accesses Order). (July 2012)

Construction (had been due to begin Oct 2012).

In the case of the A5, the road successfully went through the first 5 steps, a process that took five years. The decision to proceed was announced on 31st July 2012, and the AA5A's legal challenge was then received on 10th September 2012. Today's ruling quashing the decision to proceed, and the judge's comments on his reasons for doing so, suggest that in order to proceed with the road it will now be necessary to hold a new public inquiry, ie the road will have to go back to Stage 2 in the list above. Let's assume, as a back of the envelope exercise, that carrying out the required additional assessments under the Habitats Directive would take 6 months, and that repeating the Public Inquiry takes the same time as before. In this scenario, today's decision will have added 21 months to the timescale of the scheme. So the earliest we could now expect the A5 to be ready for construction, assuming the DRD do not abandon the project, is January 2015.

The DRD Minister Danny Kennedy now has two decisions to make. Firstly, within the next week he has to decide whether to launch an appeal. This will be based on the advice of his legal advisors. Secondly, he will need to make a more general decision about whether to press ahead with the A5 in the manner outlined above, or abandon the project. This decision is far from simple, as anyone with a feel for the sheer range of conflicting issues will be able to see.

Wider Implications – Other Road Schemes

Since construction on the A5 scheme will now almost certainly not proceed during the next two years, the DRD are going to have to reallocate a lot of capital to other projects. To date, the DRD has been coping with the delay by putting in place agreements with Stormont and Westminster to hold back funding, but it seems implausible that this could be done for two further years, especially given that there is no guarantee that it will get approved second time around. So it seems likely that some other road schemes will go ahead at relatively short notice. Last year I blogged about the most likely candidates to go ahead at short notice, which I listed as...

A6 Randalstown to Castledawson
A55 Outer Ring at Knock, Belfast
A31 Magherafelt Bypass

...although the first of these suffered a setback two months ago when a revised junction design was rejected at a Public Inquiry, rendering the timescale for this scheme slightly more uncertain now. There are plenty of other worthy projects, including the A6 from Dungiven to Londonderry, A26 dualling north of Ballymena and the M2/M3/Westlink York Street junction, but none of these are developed sufficiently to go to ground at short notice, although the first two are nor far off (the DUP's Sammy Wilson has named the A6 Dungiven scheme as his favourite). Politicians in the Mid Ulster area could do worse than take this on board if it turns out that alternative schemes are to be considered.

Wider Implications - Jobs

The contractors for the A5 project have already been appointed. They are:

Londonderry to Strabane: BAM, Balfour Beatty, FP McCann, ARUP, Atkins
Ballygawley to Omagh: Graham, Farrans, Scott Wilson, Halcrow

It is my understanding that their contracts contained a split at the end of the design phase, so that the contract could be ended if the road did not go ahead, so the contractors likely have no option but to accept this turn of events. Nevertheless, in the difficult climate in the construction sector, this is inevitably going to lead to lost jobs/jobs not created. Since the decision was made last July to proceed the contractors have been preparing to commence work, and have been depending on the income it will provide, so today's decision is going to cause considerable hardship to many people in this sector of the economy.

Wider Implications – Dublin's Funding

The decision creates a bit of confusion with regards Dublin's funding. In 2007 Dublin offered £400m to fund dual-carriageway upgrades of the A5 and also the A8 to Larne. For simplicity, it was decided that all Dublin's money would be allocated to the A5 and that Stormont would fund the A8 scheme itself on the assumption that Dublin's money would subsidise the A5 in return. The A8 scheme is actually underway as we speak. Meanwhile, Dublin withdrew (or more accurately, indefinitely delayed) its contribution in November 2011. They subsequently promised to pay £21m of the £400m in 2015, and another £21m in 2016. In addition, another small payment was received during the design stage.

If the road now does not go ahead, or is delayed, this muddies the water of whether Dublin's funding (a) has relevance any longer and (b) would still be made if only the A8 was upgraded. A worst case scenario is that Dublin contributes no further money, and that the DRD will have ended up funding the A8 scheme entirely at its own expense, something that was never their intention.

Wider Implications – To Build, or not To Build

The DRD Minister Danny Kennedy is in an unenviable position. He now faces the choice of whether to press ahead with the A5 project despite all these setbacks, or to call it a day and abandon it. This being Northern Ireland, this is not something that will be decided on purely pragmatic grounds. Here are some of the factors:

The Minister's own party, the UUP, is generally opposed to the A5 scheme since the party seems to see itself as one of the main representatives of Tyrone farmers. The previous party leader, Tom Elliott, was vigorously against the project, seemingly mostly due to its negative impact on the rural community rather than for party political reasons. Mike Nesbitt's position is not quite so clear.

Sinn Féin, who are one of the project's most vocal champions, have made the A5 into a key East vs West (and hence Unionist vs Nationalist) issue. The project began under the previous Minister, Sinn Féin's Conor Murphy who spearheaded the project and portrayed it as a necessary part of the process of rectifying what he saw as historic under-funding of the West under Unionist-dominated government. Danny Kennedy, therefore, risks being accused of wanting to terminate the project for this reason.
This is not helped by the fact that quite a few Unionist politicians do see the project in these terms. They would argue that Sinn Féin want the project to go ahead for political reasons, not for road safety or journey time reasons and oppose it for the same reason. The Finance Minster, the DUP's Sammy Wilson, is both one of the road's most vocal critics and also the man who controls the purse strings at Stormont. There is great potential here for the A5 to become a showdown between the DUP and Sinn Féin, a state of affairs that would not benefit anybody.

Until Dublin's offer of co-funding came in, such a major upgrade of the A5 was not even on the agenda. This suggests that the DRD's own engineers did not regard it has a high priority. The decision to proceed certainly made sense given that it was effectively "half price", but it has always had the fundamental weakness of not being quite as justifiable or urgent as other schemes. It would never be said publicly, but I have always suspected that many engineers within DRD do not agree with the level of priority being afforded to the A5 over other schemes.

The Alternative A5 Alliance is made up of only a few dozen landowners, whereas there are tens of thousands of people living along the A5. The Minister will want to ensure that he does not give undue weight to the opinions of a small but vocal group of people without taking into account the wishes of the wider community in West Tyrone. After all, infrastructure projects must be primarily motivated by the needs of society as a whole, not those of individuals – otherwise it would not be "infrastructure".
The business community in West Tyrone seems to be very much in favour of the project, as they believe it will boost the local economy. The Minister will be very mindful that Derry and Strabane, two of the communities set to benefit from the A5, have the highest levels of unemployment in Northern Ireland. Any minister who cancels a major infrastructure project in an area of such chronic unemployment can except to receive the wrath of many.

Although the Alternative A5 Alliance have argued that the existing A5 should be upgraded, most road engineers agree that this is an impractical option given the type of terrain, the very large number of private accesses, that it would require the vesting and demolition of considerably more private properties than the current option, and that widening the existing road would in all probability make the road more, rather than less, dangerous to road users.

The scheme has passed the Public Inquiry, and successfully resisted 5 of the 6 legal challenges against it. The Minister will be aware that, since the scheme failed only on one matter of procedure, there are actually very few obstacles other than time in its way. He would not want to over-play the significance of this decision to the actual merit of the underlying project itself.

Finally, the Minister will be conscious that a huge amount of work has already been carried out on the A5 scheme. In July 2011 Roads Service said that the scheme had cost £35m up to that point, and it's likely to be even more now. Abandoning the project would mean writing off tens of millions of pounds of cash, which has the potential to be seen by taxpayers as a scandalous waste in a time of austerity.

Conclusion

Nobody should envy the Minister. He now has to make a decision that will get him roundly criticised no matter what he chooses to do. Either way, a lot of money and time will have been wasted. A lot of people in West Tyrone will be unhappy, and a lot of other people will be very happy. Nationalist is pitted against Unionist, East is pitted against West. The situation is a mess.

wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com (http://wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/quashed-what-now-for-the-a5/)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 09:20:36 PM
Quit whinging Ziggy, there is a road already there. Now back to this Narrow Water Bridge...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 09, 2013, 09:34:02 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 09, 2013, 09:48:29 PM
I'm never travelling that road again in protest.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Sandino on April 15, 2013, 03:58:45 PM
Good Bye to the A5. No Appeal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22150857

Still second class, West of the Bann!!!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 16, 2013, 11:32:01 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 09:20:36 PM
Quit whinging Ziggy, there is a road already there. Now back to this Narrow Water Bridge...

I'm not done by a long shot Tony ;)

'Action for the A5' is a community led campaign group which supports the proposed A5 dual carriageway project. With huge benefits at risk to the local north and west community, such as the number of lives to be saved, the creation of 10,000 jobs and £1billion economic spin off, the time is right for a call to action for all those in favour of a proper north west infrastructure.

www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5 (http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5)

'Action for the A5' is a community led campaign group which supports the proposed A5 dual carriageway project. Sign up to show your support and sign the petition at www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5 (http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on April 16, 2013, 11:59:41 AM
I've signed that Ziggy, but I can't see it achieving anything

What are our politicians in the west actually doing to push this along? Besides creating ePetitions after decisions have been made? Where's the outcry?
I'm f@cked right off at this decision and an apparent lack of action by our politicians!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 16, 2013, 12:08:31 PM
It will help show the media that we are crying out for the road. As it is, the AA5A give a distorted view of what the vase majority of this region think about the project. It will put pressure on the likes of Danny Kennedy and Leo Varadkar that the people need this road and we won't accept yesterday's decision to delay it indefinitely.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bailestil on April 16, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
The politicians in the west have probably been no better than direct rule.
They seem to have no Sway in any government dept.

A6 - the 50 years delayed motorway - still waiting.
A5 - Binned
Bain Report - decentralising Gov Jobs. - Never seen light of day
Magee University - All money going to new UU Belfast Campus
Railway - Nearly binned - instead it got a stay of execution token upgrade.

My favourite political intervention was the short lived Sinn Fein - "Stand up for Derry" Campaign. must have lasted a fortnight until they realised how stupid it looked when only thing coming from Stormont to Derry was MLA's expenses.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 16, 2013, 01:22:18 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on April 16, 2013, 11:32:01 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 09, 2013, 09:20:36 PM
Quit whinging Ziggy, there is a road already there. Now back to this Narrow Water Bridge...

I'm not done by a long shot Tony ;)

'Action for the A5' is a community led campaign group which supports the proposed A5 dual carriageway project. With huge benefits at risk to the local north and west community, such as the number of lives to be saved, the creation of 10,000 jobs and £1billion economic spin off, the time is right for a call to action for all those in favour of a proper north west infrastructure.

www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5 (http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5)

'Action for the A5' is a community led campaign group which supports the proposed A5 dual carriageway project. Sign up to show your support and sign the petition at www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5 (http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5)
Whose fag packet were these written on?!  :P
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2013, 06:38:45 PM
More public transport is the answer, the West had some innovative measures in this regard in the past

(http://www.trolleybus.net/fullsize/hoh/9.jpg)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on October 21, 2013, 01:50:36 PM
The money from the A5 has been redistributed...have a guess at how much was allocated to services in the West?

Big fat zero.

Where I live it takes over an hour to drive to the nearest A & E. That worries me when I think what could happen if one of my very young children become seriously unwell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24609438
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: sensethetone on October 21, 2013, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on October 21, 2013, 01:50:36 PM
The money from the A5 has been redistributed...have a guess at how much was allocated to services in the West?

Big fat zero.

Where I live it takes over an hour to drive to the nearest A & E. That worries me when I think what could happen if one of my very young children become seriously unwell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24609438
it's a joke, they're gonna make sure that A5 upgrade money is spent somewhere else so that it'll naver happen.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bailestil on October 21, 2013, 02:38:10 PM
Scandalous stuff.
250m 100% reallocated to East Of the Bann.

If this was a decision made by Direct rule ministers, SF would have people marching on the streets. Yet they seem happy to sign off on all this stuff these days.

Belfast Parliament for a Belfast People.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: OakleafCounty on October 21, 2013, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: bailestil on October 21, 2013, 02:38:10 PM
Scandalous stuff.
250m 100% reallocated to East Of the Bann.

If this was a decision made by Direct rule ministers, SF would have people marching on the streets. Yet they seem happy to sign off on all this stuff these days.

Belfast Parliament for a Belfast People.

Couldn't have put it better than that! How they still get away with is beyond me.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on October 21, 2013, 03:47:48 PM
Tyrone lose a Hospital and get a glorified Health Centre replacement.

The West lose a major road infrastructure development, Antrim get a major road improvement.

Is it any wonder the youth are emigrating. Nothing to keep anyone home anymore.

A joke!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 21, 2013, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 21, 2013, 03:47:48 PM
Tyrone lose a Hospital and get a glorified Health Centre replacement.

The West lose a major road infrastructure development, Antrim get a major road improvement.

Is it any wonder the youth are emigrating. Nothing to keep anyone home anymore.

A joke!

Whats this project??
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: sensethetone on October 21, 2013, 03:53:13 PM
road tey cowlrain frem belfast getna boost, sow tis
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Blame our local ''politicians''. They will hear all about it when they  land on my door step looking my vote. Useless c*%ts. >:(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on October 21, 2013, 04:16:16 PM
Unreal the way this whole project has went. I cant wait until the politicians come a knockin.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bailestil on October 21, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
Wesley Johnston ‏@niroads
Finance Minister: "until there is clarity on the A5 project, we cannot afford to commit contractually to the A6 project It's either the A5 or A6, but not both. So unless A5 is officially abandoned they're not doing the A6 at this point in time". 


So its actually worse than most suspected. So Not only will the west not get the A5. They won't build the A6 upgrade until the A5 is binned.

You can either have 1 or the other lads. Or as is currently the Case, neither.
Bravo to the Executive. A Direct Rule minister wouldn't even have had the nerve to come up with this plan.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 21, 2013, 04:27:32 PM
Quote from: bailestil on October 21, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
Wesley Johnston ‏@niroads
Finance Minister: "until there is clarity on the A5 project, we cannot afford to commit contractually to the A6 project It's either the A5 or A6, but not both. So unless A5 is officially abandoned they're not doing the A6 at this point in time".

So its actually worse than most suspected. So Not only will the west not get the A5. They won't build the A6 upgrade until the A5 is binned.

You can either have 1 or the other lads. Or as its currently the Case, neither.
Bravo to the Executive. A Direct Rule minister wouldn't even have had the nerve to come up with this plan.


Thats shocking!! Sick to the teeth of politicians here. They are so occupied with bickering they forget whats important to people!!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on October 21, 2013, 04:33:07 PM
Oak I am sure if previous road up-grades were looked at you might find Environmental issues would have been let go.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bailestil on October 21, 2013, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

I think the point is that why isn't there the stream of shovel ready schemes that seem to exist elsewhere in the east?
Castledawson-Toome, (Now postponed indefinitely)
A6 Dungiven By Pass (Now postponed indefinitely )
A6 Derry - Dungeiven (now postponed)
Derry Coleraine Railway Upgrade.  (delayed)
A5 Aughnacloy (scaled down version - delayed)
Magee University (never going to happen it seems)

Each of the above is currently not ready to go. Yet the first 4 are probably 50 years in the making. A range of "procurement issues" seem to have been flagged up recently.

As for Magee - that's a tragedy 50 years in the making.

But sure Arlene will just call us moaners.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 21, 2013, 04:33:07 PM
Oak I am sure if previous road up-grades were looked at you might find Environmental issues would have been let go.

I have been involved in quite a few that have, with far bigger issues than those that the A5 has fallen on, but only due to the issue not being put to the test in a court of law.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.

If the political will was there for this road to happen then it would go ahead. The 'technicality' is just the way they stopped it, not the reason.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

A5 from Ballygawley to Omagh. There were no environmental objections to this. It got pulled previously as it was considered as part of a larger scheme including the NTS - Strabane section on which the environmental case was built.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.

If the political will was there for this road to happen then it would go ahead. The 'technicality' is just the way they stopped it, not the reason.

I have tried to be polite but that's bullshit.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:50:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

A5 from Ballygawley to Omagh. There were no environmental objections to this. It got pulled previously as it was considered as part of a larger scheme including the NTS - Strabane section on which the environmental case was built.

You are correct that there are no objections to the Omagh-Ballygawley section of the A5 but as there was only one Public Inquiry and one EIS there is only one approval or not in this case.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: offtheground on October 21, 2013, 04:53:46 PM
"conor macauley ‏@TVconormac
Roads schemes to beneft. A8 Larne gets another £30m. £13.6 for Magherafelt bypass. £8m on A26 @ Glarryford. £1m on A6 @ C'dawson"

Not all the money going east - Magherafelt bypass going ahead and £1m at Castledawson....
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 05:05:21 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:50:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

A5 from Ballygawley to Omagh. There were no environmental objections to this. It got pulled previously as it was considered as part of a larger scheme including the NTS - Strabane section on which the environmental case was built.

You are correct that there are no objections to the Omagh-Ballygawley section of the A5 but as there was only one Public Inquiry and one EIS there is only one approval or not in this case.

I cannot understand why the 2 road schemes were not completely split. IS that another slip by DRD or would there be valid reasons for treating it as one project bearing in mid they had tendered the sections separately from the beginning.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Stall the Bailer on October 21, 2013, 05:18:38 PM
Why is it A5 or A6 for an upgrade?
Both are needed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.

If the political will was there for this road to happen then it would go ahead. The 'technicality' is just the way they stopped it, not the reason.

I have tried to be polite but that's bullshit.

You believe this road is not going ahead because of environmental reasons? You believe that this is not a political thing? You believe green vs orange is not a factor?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 21, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Blame our local ''politicians''. They will hear all about it when they  land on my door step looking my vote. Useless c*%ts. >:(
And all the people moaning west of the Bann will still put an X beside the SF candidate in the next election   :-\
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 21, 2013, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 03:54:42 PM
Blame our local ''politicians''. They will hear all about it when they  land on my door step looking my vote. Useless c*%ts. >:(
And all the people moaning west of the Bann will still put an X beside the SF candidate in the next election   :-\

I doubt that. I for one won't be voting for the first time in years and I know a lot of other people who feel let down and won't be voting either.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.

If the political will was there for this road to happen then it would go ahead. The 'technicality' is just the way they stopped it, not the reason.

I have tried to be polite but that's bullshit.

You believe this road is not going ahead because of environmental reasons? You believe that this is not a political thing? You believe green vs orange is not a factor?

The only reason that there isn't currently around 1000 people working in the fields between Ballygawley and Newbuildings is the ineptitude of the DRD's consultants in completing the necessary steps to take the project through the required legal process. They could have talked politics and tried all they liked but the contracts and funding where already in place.

Getting the show back on the road will be a completely different thing, and I have no doubt that politics will come into it then.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 08:29:25 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 05:05:21 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:50:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 21, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isnt committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

A5 from Ballygawley to Omagh. There were no environmental objections to this. It got pulled previously as it was considered as part of a larger scheme including the NTS - Strabane section on which the environmental case was built.

You are correct that there are no objections to the Omagh-Ballygawley section of the A5 but as there was only one Public Inquiry and one EIS there is only one approval or not in this case.

I cannot understand why the 2 road schemes were not completely split. IS that another slip by DRD or would there be valid reasons for treating it as one project bearing in mid they had tendered the sections separately from the beginning.

The project was always tendered together and never separately. 3 sections on it and each bid team was only ever allowed to be awarded 1 section. Newbuilding to Sion Mills, Sion Mills to Omagh, Omagh to Aughnacloy.

It wasn't possible to split the EIS, the Foyle/Finn Catchment actually stretches a fair way into the Omagh to Aughnacloy section. There should have been no problems if they done their jobs properly.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 11:01:26 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on October 21, 2013, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 21, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
A question for all the dooms day merchants who live west of the Bann like myself. What projects in our local area that are ready for commencement, by that I mean ready to put out to tender, would you have spent the money on? If the money isn't committed then it will be returned to Westminster.

The A5 project could have went ahead if the will was there to do so. All this environmental nonsense is just an excuse to pull the pin on the 'united Ireland highway'.

I'm sorry to say but that's not true. The DRD's consultants failed to follow the correct procedures and although the project was halted on a technicality the law was on the side of the objectors.

If the political will was there for this road to happen then it would go ahead. The 'technicality' is just the way they stopped it, not the reason.

I have tried to be polite but that's bullshit.

You believe this road is not going ahead because of environmental reasons? You believe that this is not a political thing? You believe green vs orange is not a factor?

The only reason that there isn't currently around 1000 people working in the fields between Ballygawley and Newbuildings is the ineptitude of the DRD's consultants in completing the necessary steps to take the project through the required legal process. They could have talked politics and tried all they liked but the contracts and funding where already in place.

Getting the show back on the road will be a completely different thing, and I have no doubt that politics will come into it then.

I feel that the people here have been seriously shafted. I doubt if the project will take place anytime soon. A real pity and people will definitely die as a result.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2013, 06:52:41 PM
QuoteWhy is it A5 or A6 for an upgrade?
Both are needed.

In the short term neither are betting an upgrade, apparently. The good old Ballymena to Ballymoney road is more important andwill get the nod, a better class of person uses it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 04, 2013, 07:07:45 PM
saying i be on that road on and off, i go with that better class of person alright lol
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 04, 2013, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2013, 06:52:41 PM
QuoteWhy is it A5 or A6 for an upgrade?
Both are needed.

In the short term neither are betting an upgrade, apparently. The good old Ballymena to Ballymoney road is more important andwill get the nod, a better class of person uses it.
Not difficult.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 02:36:09 PM
2 more die today on the A5 >:(

I hope those who put a stop to the much safer dual carriageway can sleep tonight >:( >:(

RIP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 02:36:09 PM
2 more die today on the A5 >:(

I hope those who put a stop to the much safer dual carriageway can sleep tonight >:( >:(

RIP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194)

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 08, 2014, 03:18:57 PM
Is there a case for major infrastructure decisions like the A5 to be taken off the hands of the NI Executive??  :-\
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: nrico2006 on January 08, 2014, 03:34:57 PM
Was it one or two who died today?

Was there not a death last week on the same road too?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 08, 2014, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 02:36:09 PM
2 more die today on the A5 >:(

I hope those who put a stop to the much safer dual carriageway can sleep tonight >:( >:(

RIP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194)

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

Yes, if the new road was given the go ahead, it wouldn't be completed, so today's accident may still have occurred. The problem however, is that have now been three fatalities on this stretch of road in less than a week and the longer the new road is put on the long finger, the more fatalities there will likely be. The shameful reasons for the new road not going ahead only adds to the senselessness of the tragedies there have been to date. A quick scroll through the posts on the Action for the A5 facebook page tells us everything that needs to be known:

Today:
"Now confirmed that two people have died due to the accident near Sion Mills this morning. Thoughts and prayers are with their families and friends. May they rest in peace."

4th Jan:
"Tragic start to the New Year. Our thoughts are with this mans family and friends."

18th Sept:
"One man dead after early morning crash on the A5.
Our thoughts and prayers are with his family, may he rest in peace."

9th Aug:
"Another accident on the A5..."

6th Aug:
"A5 closed following serious crash"

One post from last May details that there were 170 road traffic incidents on the A5 since the Executive agreed to build the new dual carriageway in 2007. That number has risen substantially since then.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 02:36:09 PM
2 more die today on the A5 >:(

I hope those who put a stop to the much safer dual carriageway can sleep tonight >:( >:(

RIP.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25649194)

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.
Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

Why is it idiotic? People are dead and more will die because this road is not fit for purpose. Every year the A4 Ballygawley to Dungannon road would claim multiple lives until it was up graded. In the years since I can think of no fatal accidents on it. The new road has saved lives.

By the way I aim my comments more at the selfish politicians who opposed the road for the wrong reasons but the land owners are not completely innocent.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Puckoon on January 08, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
Who fukin decided to call it the united ireland highway? Where did that come from?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 08, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
Who fukin decided to call it the united ireland highway? Where did that come from?

It was a nickname that the Unionists took a disliking to. A pile of nonsense...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on January 08, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
I think it is naive to think there was no northern politician influence in dropping the work so quickly. I think we know (I certainly have some experience of this) that pressure can be exerted at the right time by selected people (on both sides!) on ministers in our great executive.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on January 08, 2014, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 08, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
I think it is naive to think there was no northern politician influence in dropping the work so quickly. I think we know (I certainly have some experience of this) that pressure can be exerted at the right time by selected people (on both sides!) on ministers in our great executive.

Im sorry Rois buts that's horseshite with regard to the A5, it may be true with other issues. Its very simple the A5 project fell down due to the judge finding legal grounds for the objections, nothing more nothing less. If Kennedy wanted to be a **** about it he could just drop the project completely but the fact that 100 million has already been spent is probably stopping him from doing it.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2014, 08:36:31 PM
You have to wonder though why the legalities weren't done properly? What heads have rolled because of this?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 08, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
I think it is naive to think there was no northern politician influence in dropping the work so quickly. I think we know (I certainly have some experience of this) that pressure can be exerted at the right time by selected people (on both sides!) on ministers in our great executive.

A friend of mine works for a company (sales of software) but would be dealing with the likes of the Water service Housing executive and other public and private bodies. Now he's not from our shores but a Scot (well he's Scottish with English accent, long story) anyways when he worked across the water he usually needed two people (directors)to convice to buy whatever he needed, over here he said it's fcuked up, first off it's the old school ties to deal with, then it's the Masons to crack followed by the political parties and so on and so on. He said it's bad enough in GB but here was the worst.

So it's no surprise that we have so many stalemates regarding planning permission and anything else like that
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on January 08, 2014, 09:52:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2014, 08:36:31 PM
You have to wonder though why the legalities weren't done properly? What heads have rolled because of this?

Mistake made by Roads Service consultants. No conspiracy with that one as they are now out a substantial sum with the job stopped.

None and there won't be any either.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 08, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
I think it is naive to think there was no northern politician influence in dropping the work so quickly. I think we know (I certainly have some experience of this) that pressure can be exerted at the right time by selected people (on both sides!) on ministers in our great executive.

A friend of mine works for a company (sales of software) but would be dealing with the likes of the Water service Housing executive and other public and private bodies. Now he's not from our shores but a Scot (well he's Scottish with English accent, long story) anyways when he worked across the water he usually needed two people (directors)to convice to buy whatever he needed, over here he said it's fcuked up, first off it's the old school ties to deal with, then it's the Masons to crack followed by the political parties and so on and so on. He said it's bad enough in GB but here was the worst.

So it's no surprise that we have so many stalemates regarding planning permission and anything else like that
That's so off the wall it's unreal.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on January 08, 2014, 11:17:44 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 08, 2014, 08:26:48 PM
I think it is naive to think there was no northern politician influence in dropping the work so quickly. I think we know (I certainly have some experience of this) that pressure can be exerted at the right time by selected people (on both sides!) on ministers in our great executive.

A friend of mine works for a company (sales of software) but would be dealing with the likes of the Water service Housing executive and other public and private bodies. Now he's not from our shores but a Scot (well he's Scottish with English accent, long story) anyways when he worked across the water he usually needed two people (directors)to convice to buy whatever he needed, over here he said it's fcuked up, first off it's the old school ties to deal with, then it's the Masons to crack followed by the political parties and so on and so on. He said it's bad enough in GB but here was the worst.

So it's no surprise that we have so many stalemates regarding planning permission and anything else like that
That's so off the wall it's unreal.

True. Exact same story as MR2. The only difference being the guy I know is Welsh, with an English accent.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 11:27:51 PM
So is that how Eircom was awarded the contract to provide the new telephony system in the whole of the Civil Service
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 08:58:32 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on January 08, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
Who fukin decided to call it the united ireland highway? Where did that come from?

It was a nickname that the Unionists took a disliking to. A pile of nonsense...

When or where was this nickname ever used?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 09, 2014, 09:51:36 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Good man Enda!!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: OakleafCounty on January 09, 2014, 10:00:22 AM
I think there was a conspiracy to get it stopped. The head of the DRD is Danny Kennedy from UUP who's Manifesto for the last election in 2011 stated they wanted 'an urgent review of the decision to commit over 50% of the DRD's next budget on a road from Donegal to Dublin'. They go on to advocate a refocusing on other road projects such as the A2 - see page 19 http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/ ... 05_man.pdf

The fact that incomptence like this happened under Danny's 'watch' is very convienent for his electoral mandate. Also, the fact that no heads have rolled for this so called mistake just confirms that something shadey went on.

Why have the media not questioned Danny about the obvious conflict of interest between his desires as stated in the manifesto he stood on and the stated objectives of the department he heads up?

BECAUSE IT SUITS BELFAST CENTRIC MEDIA AND POLITICIANS

The same way we do not hear much complaint in the media about £110m on stadia for Belfast and nothing for the other counties; and
The same reason the University of Ulster rather than investing in the most over subscribed Campus they have (ie Magee) they have decided to pump another £250m into another campus in Belfast.

But then we are told that we are all paranoid and that if we just put our best foot forward everything will work out.

The reality is Norn Iron remains a sectarian hell hole that will only ever invest in infrastructure West of Bann when they are forced by the courts (Project Kelvin) or through co-ordinated campaigning (a la Pink Ladies).

While tax payers funds remain being dolled out from Stormont, the west will continue to get the bare minimum..........and yes that is for purely sectarian reasons from one half of the MLAs and gross incompetence by the other half.

Rant over except to say, I hope Stormont gets hit by an asteroid

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: OakleafCounty on January 09, 2014, 10:01:31 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Do you not know why they were supposed to part fund the road?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 10:03:40 AM
Quote4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

The south could not have done their bit as the likes of Sean Quinn had ruined their finances.

I was never sure why the south should have been expected to pay for this road in any case. Most people of Tyrone didn't ask to be in the 6 counties in the first case , but since the British wanted Tyrone there and control of the roads in it then they should pay for those roads.

That said if other sections were delayed there should have been enough money in any case. Or if the 26 county contribution had been a shadow toll type arrangement payable over 20 years, then this would have been agreed, so the will was not there.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: take_yer_points on January 09, 2014, 10:22:52 AM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 09, 2014, 10:00:22 AM
I think there was a conspiracy to get it stopped. The head of the DRD is Danny Kennedy from UUP who's Manifesto for the last election in 2011 stated they wanted 'an urgent review of the decision to commit over 50% of the DRD's next budget on a road from Donegal to Dublin'. They go on to advocate a refocusing on other road projects such as the A2 - see page 19 http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/ ... 05_man.pdf

The fact that incomptence like this happened under Danny's 'watch' is very convienent for his electoral mandate. Also, the fact that no heads have rolled for this so called mistake just confirms that something shadey went on.

Why have the media not questioned Danny about the obvious conflict of interest between his desires as stated in the manifesto he stood on and the stated objectives of the department he heads up?

BECAUSE IT SUITS BELFAST CENTRIC MEDIA AND POLITICIANS

The same way we do not hear much complaint in the media about £110m on stadia for Belfast and nothing for the other counties; and
The same reason the University of Ulster rather than investing in the most over subscribed Campus they have (ie Magee) they have decided to pump another £250m into another campus in Belfast.

But then we are told that we are all paranoid and that if we just put our best foot forward everything will work out.

The reality is Norn Iron remains a sectarian hell hole that will only ever invest in infrastructure West of Bann when they are forced by the courts (Project Kelvin) or through co-ordinated campaigning (a la Pink Ladies).

While tax payers funds remain being dolled out from Stormont, the west will continue to get the bare minimum..........and yes that is for purely sectarian reasons from one half of the MLAs and gross incompetence by the other half.

Rant over except to say, I hope Stormont gets hit by an asteroid

Have you some figures for this?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: theskull1 on January 09, 2014, 10:26:16 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 11:27:51 PM
So is that how Eircom was awarded the contract to provide the new telephony system in the whole of the Civil Service

Eircom have a decent sized office in Belfast
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?

We don't gots the moneys! The taxpayers are being crucified, and those taxes need to go into things like healthcare, education, social welfare, employment growth initiatives etc
It would not go down well with the public at all if our taxes went to pay for a road that would mostly benefit people who don't pay taxes here!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?

We don't gots the moneys! The taxpayers are being crucified, and those taxes need to go into things like healthcare, education, social welfare, employment growth initiatives etc
It would not go down well with the public at all if our taxes went to pay for a road that would mostly benefit people who don't pay taxes here!
Doesn't really answer my last question though. Was the money there up until Nov 2011? Did nobody tell Inda about the financial crisis until then or something? How can a government (despite knowing it was in a financial crisis) insist it can afford to contribute to a road which it had agreed to do as part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, then find another €3.6bn in the pot that it didn't know about, and subsequently decide it no longer can afford to contribute?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?

We don't gots the moneys! The taxpayers are being crucified, and those taxes need to go into things like healthcare, education, social welfare, employment growth initiatives etc
It would not go down well with the public at all if our taxes went to pay for a road that would mostly benefit people who don't pay taxes here!
Doesn't really answer my last question though. Was the money there up until Nov 2011? Did nobody tell Inda about the financial crisis until then or something? How can a government (despite knowing it was in a financial crisis) insist it can afford to contribute to a road which it had agreed to do as part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, then find another €3.6bn in the pot that it didn't know about, and subsequently decide it no longer can afford to contribute?

I haven't a clue, haven't been following this saga, I'm just telling you what the reality is for people here and how they would view millions of their taxes being spent in another jurisdiction.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Stall the Bailer on January 09, 2014, 11:41:53 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?

We don't gots the moneys! The taxpayers are being crucified, and those taxes need to go into things like healthcare, education, social welfare, employment growth initiatives etc
It would not go down well with the public at all if our taxes went to pay for a road that would mostly benefit people who don't pay taxes here!
Doesn't really answer my last question though. Was the money there up until Nov 2011? Did nobody tell Inda about the financial crisis until then or something? How can a government (despite knowing it was in a financial crisis) insist it can afford to contribute to a road which it had agreed to do as part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, then find another €3.6bn in the pot that it didn't know about, and subsequently decide it no longer can afford to contribute?

I haven't a clue, haven't been following this saga, I'm just telling you what the reality is for people here and how they would view millions of their taxes being spent in another jurisdiction.

The road does serve Donegal though.
Many of people of injured and killed on the road are also from the South (the man last week for example).
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:56:36 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 09, 2014, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 09, 2014, 09:01:51 AM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on January 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 08, 2014, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 08, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
Quote from: Bensars on January 08, 2014, 02:48:14 PM

Whilst i would also be in favour of the new road, any connection to the tragic incident and those who opposed the new road going through their land is idiotic in the extreme.

Nothing like hitting the hysteria button.   

Sympathies to those invoved in this tragic accident by the way

I don't think it is tbh though I think he was talking more about Danny Kennedy. Everyone who uses that road knows that todays tragic events won't be the last. But hey, why would you want to fix a busy death trap in the neglected west when you can build roads at Greenisland and Ballymoney instead.

Lads the one at Greenisland/Carrick is well over due in fairness, the amount of commuters to Belfast along that stretch is brutal. Granted there are many other ones which would benefit a lot of rural communities to. The infrastructure is crap in the north.

I can appreciate that MR but the A5 project had already begun. Almost 100Million had been spent. Land had been acquired and all was in place . Then when the Unionists discovered that it was being called ''the united Ireland Highway'' they had to stop it at all costs. The reason they used to get it stopped was a pile of environmental bullsh1t IMO. I am also disgusted at the local politicians who seemed to roll over and allow this to happen. These are the clowns that run our country. It makes me sick and it is costing lives.

People around here feel totally let down and days like today prove that we have been. >:( :(
In fairness here I don't think the blame can be placed on the NI politicians rather it can be placed on the Roads Service engineers and legal team for the balls up they made in firstly neglecting to carry out the necessary environmental studies and then failing to interpret the legal position correctly by going ahead with the Omagh Ballygawley section. The southern Government must also shoulder some of the blame by reneging on its commitment to contribute to the costs of the project

4 of the 5 most deaths on this road in the last 2 years  have been on the Strabane - Omagh section which was dropped due to lack of Southern finance.

We have enough to do doing looking after our own affairs, thanks.

Yes why should the Dublin government, led by the self titled "All-Ireland Party" help fund a road of benefit to the people of Donegal, if there's a chance it might also help save nordie lives? And it's not as if they "as part of the UK /RoI Government endorsement of the St. Andrews Agreement, agreed to provide some £400 million to the route upgrade" and which they "confirmed at the North South Ministerial Council" http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/index/media-centre/news-departments/news-dfp/news-archives-dfp-nov-2011/news-dfp-091111-finance-minister-responds.htm). And sure, what odds the countless lives it would save, as long as Tubberman's "own affairs" are looked after by ensuring there'll be no more of this whole "North/South co-operation" malarkey that the bloody GFA yapped on about, eh? I know I kept asking this earlier in the thread and nobody could answer me, but sure, why not ask again...how can a government claim in May 2011 that they can afford their agreed contribution to the new road, then after realising in November that due to "an accounting error" they are €3.6bn better off than they thought, then decide they can't afford the road after all?

We don't gots the moneys! The taxpayers are being crucified, and those taxes need to go into things like healthcare, education, social welfare, employment growth initiatives etc
It would not go down well with the public at all if our taxes went to pay for a road that would mostly benefit people who don't pay taxes here!
Doesn't really answer my last question though. Was the money there up until Nov 2011? Did nobody tell Inda about the financial crisis until then or something? How can a government (despite knowing it was in a financial crisis) insist it can afford to contribute to a road which it had agreed to do as part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, then find another €3.6bn in the pot that it didn't know about, and subsequently decide it no longer can afford to contribute?

I haven't a clue, haven't been following this saga, I'm just telling you what the reality is for people here and how they would view millions of their taxes being spent in another jurisdiction.
Unfortunately, my post had nothing to do with how Ireland's gombeen partitionists might feel about the road funding (despite it being a road helping to link Dublin to Donegal). You asked why the south should help fund the upgrade and I explained that the road upgrade would SAVE COUNTLESS LIVES (and as pointed out above, the road in question runs close to the border and is used very heavily by Donegal commuters) and I explained that they should do so because they made a commitment to do so under the St Andrew's Agreement and the N/S Ministerial Council and pointed out they should do so because they claimed to have the money for it before they even knew about the €3.6bn that was also in the kitty.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
QuoteDoesn't really answer my last question though. Was the money there up until Nov 2011? Did nobody tell Inda about the financial crisis until then or something? How can a government (despite knowing it was in a financial crisis) insist it can afford to contribute to a road which it had agreed to do as part of the St. Andrew's Agreement, then find another €3.6bn in the pot that it didn't know about, and subsequently decide it no longer can afford to contribute?

So the ROI government agreed to do something and tried to maintain that commitment as long as possible until the s**t hit the fan and they couldn't do it? Comments about €3.6m are immature nonsense, this is just an accounting treatment of something, not a real increase in resources.

Quote
The road does serve Donegal though.
Many of people of injured and killed on the road are also from the South (the man last week for example).

Of course it serves Donegal. My problem here is that because it serves Donegal this is being used as an excuse for the Stormont wasters not to fulfil their obligations towards connectivity on the island of Ireland by bringing it to a proper standard. Many posters here seem to see the broader linking of Ireland as being the responsibility of people in the 26 counties only, nothing to do with them. There is sickening partitionism here sometimes.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
So the ROI government agreed to do something and tried to maintain that commitment as long as possible until the s**t hit the fan and they couldn't do it?
The "shit hit the fan" in 2008. Three years later, Dublin was still insisting it would contribute to the raod upgrade.

Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
Comments about €3.6m are immature nonsense, this is just an accounting treatment of something, not a real increase in resources.
Why conveniently brush aside the fact that they found themselves €3.6bn better off than they believed they were when they were so adamant they could afford the road as it was?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Stall the Bailer on January 09, 2014, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
Quote
Quote
The road does serve Donegal though.
Many of people of injured and killed on the road are also from the South (the man last week for example).

Of course it serves Donegal. My problem here is that because it serves Donegal this is being used as an excuse for the Stormont wasters not to fulfil their obligations towards connectivity on the island of Ireland by bringing it to a proper standard. Many posters here seem to see the broader linking of Ireland as being the responsibility of people in the 26 counties only, nothing to do with them. There is sickening partitionism here sometimes.
I agree, but saying that South has a committment does not mean the North has not.  They are not mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
So the ROI government agreed to do something and tried to maintain that commitment as long as possible until the s**t hit the fan and they couldn't do it?
The "shit hit the fan" in 2008. Three years later, Dublin was still insisting it would contribute to the raod upgrade.

So you are criticising them because it wasn't the first thing that they cut?

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
Comments about €3.6m are immature nonsense, this is just an accounting treatment of something, not a real increase in resources.
Why conveniently brush aside the fact that they found themselves €3.6bn better off than they believed they were when they were so adamant they could afford the road as it was?

As I said, but you carefully ignored,  they are not  €3.6bn better off in any real sense, this is simply a timing issue of accounting
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
So the ROI government agreed to do something and tried to maintain that commitment as long as possible until the s**t hit the fan and they couldn't do it?
The "shit hit the fan" in 2008. Three years later, Dublin was still insisting it would contribute to the raod upgrade.

So you are criticising them because it wasn't the first thing that they cut?
No, I'm criticising them because they knew the extent of the financial crisis, but still insisted they could afford the road and insisted they would live up to their St Andrews Agreement commitments, then realised they had more money than they thought they had, and decided they couldn't afford it. And I'm criticising them because in the time they insisted they could afford it, between £40-£50 million was spent on the project and not an inch of tar was laid. Money which now may as well have been flushed down the drain and now more lives will inevitably be lost.

Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
Comments about €3.6m are immature nonsense, this is just an accounting treatment of something, not a real increase in resources.
Why conveniently brush aside the fact that they found themselves €3.6bn better off than they believed they were when they were so adamant they could afford the road as it was?

As I said, but you carefully ignored,  they are not €3.6bn better off in any real sense, this is simply a timing issue of accounting
I didn't say they were €3.6bn better off. I said they realised they were €3.6bn better off than they believed they were when they said they could afford the road. It's like me insisting I can afford a bag of crisps because I reckon I have £5, then realising I actually had £5.20 and subsequently deciding that I can no longer afford that bag of crisps.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Nally StandI didn't say they were €3.6bn better off. I said they realised they were €3.6bn better off than they believed

They weren't any better off, they had the same amount of money as before. They simply had a different accounting measure of debt, but this was no use for spending money as the money you had remained the same. If you have no money and you received a statement that your mortgage wasn't as big as you though, how would this help you spend?

Quote
And I'm criticising them because in the time they insisted they could afford it, between £40-£50 million was spent on the project and not an inch of tar was laid. Money which now may as well have been flushed down the drain and now more lives will inevitably be lost.

Why was the money lost? Is the route going to change? Why doesn't Stormont build the thing and get the Freestate money later?

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 09, 2014, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Nally StandI didn't say they were €3.6bn better off. I said they realised they were €3.6bn better off than they believed

They weren't any better off, they had the same amount of money as before. They simply had a different accounting measure of debt, but this was no use for spending money as the money you had remained the same. If you have no money and you received a statement that your mortgage wasn't as big as you though, how would this help you spend?

Quote
And I'm criticising them because in the time they insisted they could afford it, between £40-£50 million was spent on the project and not an inch of tar was laid. Money which now may as well have been flushed down the drain and now more lives will inevitably be lost.

Why was the money lost? Is the route going to change? Why doesn't Stormont build the thing and get the Freestate money later?

As far as I can see the project is stopped and there are no plans to start it again. I predict that 10 years from now there still will be no road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 04:15:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Nally StandI didn't say they were €3.6bn better off. I said they realised they were €3.6bn better off than they believed

They weren't any better off, they had the same amount of money as before. They simply had a different accounting measure of debt, but this was no use for spending money as the money you had remained the same. If you have no money and you received a statement that your mortgage wasn't as big as you though, how would this help you spend?

Quote
And I'm criticising them because in the time they insisted they could afford it, between £40-£50 million was spent on the project and not an inch of tar was laid. Money which now may as well have been flushed down the drain and now more lives will inevitably be lost.

Why was the money lost? Is the route going to change? Why doesn't Stormont build the thing and get the Freestate money later?

No sh*t, of course they had the same money as before, but when they thought they were €3.6bn less well off than they were, they said they could afford to live up to their commitments. As I stated, it's akin to me insisting I can afford a bag of crisps because I THINK I have £5 even though I had £5.20, then after realising I actually had £5.20 all along, I decide that I can no longer afford that bag of crisps. As for why the money was lost, I assume it was because it was spent on consultations/land purchasing etc on the knowledge that the dublin government would cough up what it promised to cough up, when it promised it would cough it up. As for why stormont doesn't "build the thing and get the money later", maybe they can't afford to take the hit themselves all at once, maybe the will wasn't there for other reasons - maybe greed of local land owners stopped them, maybe sectarianism raised it's ugly head. But in the end, the commitment was given by Dublin as part of St. Andrew's and it wasn't delivered upon. A commitment they were, well, committed to, long after they knew they were in a financial crisis, and long before they found out they were €3.6bn better off than they had thought they were.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
QuoteNo sh*t, of course they had the same money as before,

If you have the same money as before, then why should you increase spending?
As I said, the accounting calculations only related to debt.

QuoteA commitment they were, well, committed to, long after they knew they were in a financial crisis,

Exactly, they held on to the commitment as long as they could. What more could they do?

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 04:48:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
QuoteNo sh*t, of course they had the same money as before,

If you have the same money as before, then why should you increase spending?
As I said, the accounting calculations only related to debt.

QuoteA commitment they were, well, committed to, long after they knew they were in a financial crisis,

Exactly, they held on to the commitment as long as they could. What more could they do?

Increase spending? They weren't going to increase spending. They were going to spend the same as they already said they could afford before the €3.6bn error was even discovered.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 05:41:42 PM
How many times do I have to say it? The €3.6Bn was not available for expenditure, the difference arose in the way debt was calculated. It is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, except as a means of prolonging it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 05:41:42 PM
How many times do I have to say it? The €3.6Bn was not available for expenditure, the difference arose in the way debt was calculated. It is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, except as a means of prolonging it.
It isn't irrelevant. They owed €3.6bn less than they had thought they did. Which, again, makes their subsequent decision that they didn't have the money after all (despite insisting for three years of an economic crisis that they had) all the more odd. To adapt my scenario, if I owe my friend 20p but want a bag of crisps and I am sure I can still afford them, and suddenly discover that I actually only owe my friend less than the 20p I'd thought, well if the crisps were affordable when I thought I owed 20p, they're bound to be affordable now!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 06:05:03 PM
QuoteIt isn't irrelevant. They owed €3.6bn less than they had thought they did.

It is irrelevant. They may have owed less in total, but they were in a bailout and could not borrow more just because of this.

If you wanted to get a new kitchem your house and couldn't afford it, and a mortgage statement arrived which showed the outstanding mortgage not as high as you thought. You still have a problem, you don't have the money and whatever the mortgage was they won't lend you more because you don't have money.

The 26 county government may be run by shower of chancers, but it does pay its own way and cannot conjure money out of the air, there has to be some connection between what you have and what you spend, a linkage that does not seem to apply north of the border. 
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 07:43:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 06:05:03 PM
QuoteIt isn't irrelevant. They owed €3.6bn less than they had thought they did.

It is irrelevant. They may have owed less in total, but they were in a bailout and could not borrow more just because of this.

If you wanted to get a new kitchem your house and couldn't afford it, and a mortgage statement arrived which showed the outstanding mortgage not as high as you thought. You still have a problem, you don't have the money and whatever the mortgage was they won't lend you more because you don't have money.

The 26 county government may be run by shower of chancers, but it does pay its own way and cannot conjure money out of the air, there has to be some connection between what you have and what you spend, a linkage that does not seem to apply north of the border.

So once again, how is it they maintained they could afford to contribute when they were in a more financially perilous position than they were when they decided they couldn't afford to?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
QuoteSo once again, how is it they maintained they could afford to contribute when they were in a more financially perilous position than they were when they decided they couldn't afford to?

They didn't. In 2008 they thought they could still do it, things got worse and in 2011 they realised they couldn't do it. Nothing to report.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:51:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
QuoteSo once again, how is it they maintained they could afford to contribute when they were in a more financially perilous position than they were when they decided they couldn't afford to?

They didn't. In 2008 they thought they could still do it, things got worse and in 2011 they realised they couldn't do it. Nothing to report.

In May 2011 they were all for it. Not long before they realised they owed €3.6bn less than they thought they did in May.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 09, 2014, 11:51:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
QuoteSo once again, how is it they maintained they could afford to contribute when they were in a more financially perilous position than they were when they decided they couldn't afford to?

They didn't. In 2008 they thought they could still do it, things got worse and in 2011 they realised they couldn't do it. Nothing to report.

In May 2011 they were all for it. Not long before they realised they owed €3.6bn less than they thought they did in May.

OK then, we have an agreed versionn. In 2008 they still thought they could do it, in May 2011 they hadn't admitted they couldn't do it, they later admitted they couldn't do it and shortly afterwards there was a lot of newspaper hype about an accounting error that had nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to fund the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nally Stand on January 10, 2014, 10:41:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
OK then, we have an agreed version.
No we don't.

Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
In 2008 they still thought they could do it, in May 2011 they hadn't admitted they couldn't do it,
"Hadn't admitted they couldn't do it"? How's that for a bit of waffling! Not so much that they "didn't admit they couldn't", but more that they openly insisted they could and would...
To quote Inda at the end of May 2011, "The previous government had committed to put money in there and we will honour that commitment."

Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
they later admitted they couldn't do it and shortly afterwards there was a lot of newspaper hype about an accounting error... that had nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to fund the A5.
The accounting error was discovered over a week BEFORE they announced they couldn't do it.

Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2014, 12:12:55 AM
...about an accounting error that had nothing whatsoever to do with their ability to fund the A5.
Considerations of what one owes has nothing to do with one's ability to spend? You're basically you are saying they couldn't afford it because of the size of their debt....but if they suddenly realise their debt wasn't quite as big as they thought, then debt suddenly has "nothing whatsoever" to do with their ability to spend.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 21, 2014, 10:02:28 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: orangeman on January 21, 2014, 10:57:44 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 21, 2014, 10:02:28 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124)

Who got the £60m that has already been spent on the job ?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on January 21, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: orangeman on January 21, 2014, 10:57:44 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on January 21, 2014, 10:02:28 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25816124)

Who got the £60m that has already been spent on the job ?

Consultants, test digs, ground clearance, solicitors, engineers, public meetings and presentations etc, fields have been dozed, hedges have been cut down and moved. A lot of fencing done. Work had well and truly begun. :-\
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on January 21, 2014, 12:24:51 PM
Unreal what is going on. I have no doubt that there is a unionist/DUP agenda against any north/south, nationalist benefiting scheme's on this part of the Island. They have managed to stop the narrow bridge scheme and the upgrading of the A5 and in years gone by they had Craigavon as the second city instead of Derry.... the list endless.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: ziggysego on April 30, 2014, 10:23:38 PM
Good news day for the A5 - Tweet from Wesley Johnston @niroads (http://www.twitter.com/niroads):

All 3 Habitats Directive assessments just published suggest either no impact at all, or minor and manageable impacts. Good news for #A5WTC

6 week consultation period on the 3 reports...

a5wtc.com (http://www.a5wtc.com/MinisterStatement201404.aspx)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on April 30, 2014, 11:07:32 PM
Not worth the time &effort. The road is gone.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 30, 2014, 11:56:08 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your sourcefor the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.
;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Who are the consultants?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Who are the consultants?

Mouchel are the lead consultants on behalf of DRD Roads Service.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:40:58 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.

The road is linking Donegal with Dublin, it has been dubbed 'the United Ireland Highway', Both Nationalist parties are backing the road publically, both Unionist parties are not.

But it is not Political ::)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.

Probably a couple of druids though.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Bensars on May 01, 2014, 02:01:49 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.

Serious sweeping generalisation there.
Some of those opposed that i know , are not swayed in slightest by whatever political persuation, but rather the loss of their land, the compensation for such land and the tax liability they will have as a result of recieving income from this.

As someone stated above had the legal challenge on the badgers ( or whatever it was)  been unsuccessful the work would have been commenced by now, irrespective if it was a prod or taig badger !
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Bensars on May 01, 2014, 02:01:49 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.

Serious sweeping generalisation there.
Some of those opposed that i know , are not swayed in slightest by whatever political persuation, but rather the loss of their land, the compensation for such land and the tax liability they will have as a result of recieving income from this.

As someone stated above had the legal challenge on the badgers ( or whatever it was)  been unsuccessful the work would have been commenced by now, irrespective if it was a prod or taig badger !

Work had already commenced. Approx £100Million of tax payers money spent. The job would probably be over 50% finished by now.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
This whole f**k up is political. I would bet my life that not one catholic is a member of that opposing group.

If you went to Mass on a Sunday in Omagh you would see some of the AA5A. Does it really matter what religion they are? Landowners and Business owners are within their rights to object and its up to the DRD to overcome their objections within the legislation.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 03:50:51 PM
But yet Larne and Ballymena will get new roundabouts and by-passes
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: blewuporstuffed on May 01, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.

Why not this section?
Is it just due to the fact that it connects with the South at Aughnacloy?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 01, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.

Why not this section?
Is it just due to the fact that it connects with the South at Aughnacloy?

The traffic count, it doesnt justify a dual carraigeway. A new single carraigeway would be sufficient.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 01, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.

Why not this section?
Is it just due to the fact that it connects with the South at Aughnacloy?

The traffic count, it doesnt justify a dual carraigeway. A new single carraigeway would be sufficient.

I'm no transport engineer but surely by improving to Derry to Balygawley stretch you will encourage traffic on to this stretch of the road, thereby requiring the need for a dual? I just hope if it is single lane they have the sense to construct it wide enough so its just a case of introducing a central verge/barrier and changing the lanes when it comes to an upgrade.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 01, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.

Why not this section?
Is it just due to the fact that it connects with the South at Aughnacloy?

The traffic count, it doesnt justify a dual carraigeway. A new single carraigeway would be sufficient.

I'm no transport engineer but surely by improving to Derry to Balygawley stretch you will encourage traffic on to this stretch of the road, thereby requiring the need for a dual? I just hope if it is single lane they have the sense to construct it wide enough so its just a case of introducing a central verge/barrier and changing the lanes when it comes to an upgrade.

Even with the expected increased users from the improved road and traffic growth it wont meet the requirements for dualling. It didnt pass the Public Enquiry. A high quality single lane carraigeway will be enough, the worst stretch of the road to Aughnacloy was replaced when DBFO2 was completed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 01, 2014, 04:11:44 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 01, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 03:44:09 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on May 01, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Quote from: EC Unique on May 01, 2014, 12:06:21 AM
Quote from: oakleafgael on April 30, 2014, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on April 30, 2014, 11:46:23 PM
The road will definitely be built. No doubt. The annoying bit is letting Danny Kennedy hold it up for a few years and adding tens of millions to the eventual cost but be under no illusions... The road will be built.

Im tempted to ask for your source for the blame laying at Danny Kennedy's door. Nothing at all to do with any politician that the road has not yet proceeded.

It's political and you know it.

Its 100% an indisputable fact that the only reason that the A5 isn't currently being constructed is due to the legal process finding that the DRD's Consultants failed to do their job properly to comply with the legislation.

Why do you think the legal process took part? It had all already been passed and work commenced but the group against the road (backed by unionist politicians) dug and dug for a reason to stop it. This never would have been near a court only for this group.

The legal process took place due to the objections of the umbrella group set up by the land owners, business owners and tree huggers, as it turned out the law was on their side. This group is nothing to do with any unionist political group. I agree that the only reason it ended up in court was due to them.

Do you think the road will go ahead?

In some shape of form sections of it will be completed. Cant ever see the Ballygawley to Aughnacloy section going ahead as proposed.

Why not this section?
Is it just due to the fact that it connects with the South at Aughnacloy?

The traffic count, it doesnt justify a dual carraigeway. A new single carraigeway would be sufficient.

I'm no transport engineer but surely by improving to Derry to Balygawley stretch you will encourage traffic on to this stretch of the road, thereby requiring the need for a dual? I just hope if it is single lane they have the sense to construct it wide enough so its just a case of introducing a central verge/barrier and changing the lanes when it comes to an upgrade.

Even with the expected increased users from the improved road and traffic growth it wont meet the requirements for dualling. It didnt pass the Public Enquiry. A high quality single lane carraigeway will be enough, the worst stretch of the road to Aughnacloy was replaced when DBFO2 was completed.

Agreed. Ballygawley to Aughnacloy is never really a problem where as Ballygawley to Omagh can be a nightmare. By-passing Omagh and Strabane would make the journey to Donegal/Derry much easier and at certain times would save a massive amount of time. Not to mention the lives that would be saved.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2014, 08:26:00 PM
South of Ballygawley can be left for the moment and dealt with in conjunction with improvements in Co. Monaghan with one scheme bypassing Emyvale and Aughnacloy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2014, 11:42:44 PM
Mutterings in the Belly Telly that the 26 county contribution to this project might be coming back into view as things improve, a few Euro per 1000l of water should do the trick.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 01, 2016, 10:29:59 PM
Some nice graphics here
http://www.a5wtc.com/Flythroughs--Proposed-Scheme-2016
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on June 26, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
Would brexit and the probable loss of EU funding for the York street interchange release additional executive funding for the non-EU funded A5 and A6?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 01:13:13 PM
There mightnt be as much money to go around generally.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on September 20, 2016, 12:28:15 PM
So the Alternative A5 group (DUP/UU/OO backed group) have lodge another high court appeal against this road. It really does show that there is to be no progressive moves made west of the bann and certainly not if it so much as hints at a link between north and south.
Meanwhile serious accidents continue to happen and and people loose their life on this death trap of a road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: OakleafCounty on September 20, 2016, 12:40:55 PM
They've already been through this. I don't see how a second judicial review can even be entertained!! It's clearly an Orange agenda and I wonder who's financing them.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Take Your Points on September 20, 2016, 01:52:57 PM
Don't think it is much worse than the way that SF politicians have treated the people of Omagh, first by taking away their acute hospital to buy votes in Fermanagh/South Tyrone (the first acute hospital to be opened and closed within less than a decade or simply the first acute hospital that cannot deal with acute cases), then by defying logic and moving the A5 construction to Derry instead of continuing the existing dual carriageway from Ballygawley to Omagh and into the heart of the West to buy some votes for the party in the maiden city and finally by diverting any hope of future funding for this stretch of the A5 by starting the A6 in the north of the lough where infrastructure has always been to the higher standard.  Just shows how they believe that they can treat their West Tyrone voters and they will never turn against them at the ballot box.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on September 20, 2016, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2016, 01:13:13 PM
There mightnt be as much money to go around generally.
Brexit could cost the UK 10% of GDP
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: laoislad on November 21, 2016, 08:10:45 PM
I have to drive from Dublin to Letterkenny tomorrow.  Am I better going the A5 road from Aughnacloy or would the Cavan Enniskillen road be better? Would probably be hitting Aughnacloy around 8am if I was going that way.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2016, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 21, 2016, 08:10:45 PM
I have to drive from Dublin to Letterkenny tomorrow.  Am I better going the A5 road from Aughnacloy or would the Cavan Enniskillen road be better? Would probably be hitting Aughnacloy around 8am if I was going that way.
Onto the N2 at Ardee and on up the road to Aughnacloy and on to Omagh and Strabane.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: laoislad on November 21, 2016, 08:52:53 PM
Good road? Busy? Will I need my passport...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2016, 10:16:06 PM
Quote from: laoislad on November 21, 2016, 08:52:53 PM
Good road? Busy? Will I need my passport...

The N2 is the way forward. If you are intrepid, as many are, you can take the M1 to Dundalk and N53 and stop in Cullaville and explain the Laois philosophy that the people there are British.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on March 03, 2017, 05:33:25 PM
People in favour of the A5 project will shed no tears for Danny Kennedy loosing his seat in the executive.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 06:30:27 PM
I would say Kennedy was only doing what he was told to do
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 06:30:27 PM
I would say Kennedy was only doing what he was told to do

He was just another incompetent minister way in over his head when trying to ensure a major project is being managed hence they left out key elements of the process but don't forget the major blame belongs to RoI withdrawing the full scale of funding.

Remember these people are not elected on their intellectual ability or managerial competency.  it is amazing that anything is managed by governments.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 01:41:00 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 06:30:27 PM
I would say Kennedy was only doing what he was told to do

He was just another incompetent minister way in over his head when trying to ensure a major project is being managed hence they left out key elements of the process but don't forget the major blame belongs to RoI withdrawing the full scale of funding.

The Irish government may have delayed the funding, which was inevitable in the unusual times that were in it, but there were plenty of funding models EIB loan etc which could have been proposed to get things under way if there was any interest. It isn't clear why the ROI government should have to fund this in any case, if Britain wishes to run Tyrone against the wishes of its inhabitants then it should be required to provides its infrastructure.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: An Watcher on November 29, 2017, 07:20:30 PM
Great news that this project will resume next year
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on November 29, 2017, 08:28:23 PM
Heard one of them asshloes on the radio this morning who is still opposing this road complain about the cost of it. It was because of them that the cost has went up. Unbelievable to think this road would be near completed if it had have beem managed right and lives would have been saved
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 29, 2017, 08:48:54 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 29, 2017, 08:28:23 PM
Heard one of them asshloes on the radio this morning who is still opposing this road complain about the cost of it. It was because of them that the cost has went up. Unbelievable to think this road would be near completed if it had have beem managed right and lives would have been saved

Actually the Omagh to Ballgawley road would have been finished by now.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
Are we still footing the bill for this?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Owen Brannigan on November 29, 2017, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
Are we still footing the bill for this?

Only a tenth of what you originally were going to pay before you lot welched on the deal, £75m over three years.  Nothing considering how much value that you lot get from this stretch of road rushing from Donegal to Monaghan at high speed with little regard for the safety of the rest of us using the road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rossfan on November 29, 2017, 09:30:17 PM
I suppose we'd better get used of paying for ye in preparation for the United Ireland  ;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Therealdonald on November 29, 2017, 09:33:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2017, 09:30:17 PM
I suppose we'd better get used of paying for ye in preparation for the United Ireland  ;D

Sure if ye hadn't took the soup in the first place we'd all be watching the quiet man together
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2017, 09:41:34 PM
If they are cute they will use the present negotiations to redirect some EU or British money, or more likely British money paid to the EU, to this project. A Cullaville bypass and an Enniskillen bypass should be added in as well.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on January 27, 2018, 07:40:11 PM
Another life lost on this road today. The woman who was knocked down a week or so ago has passed away.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TabClear on January 27, 2018, 09:56:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 27, 2018, 07:40:11 PM
Another life lost on this road today. The woman who was knocked down a week or so ago has passed away.

I heard that earlier. Tragic news. It's an absolute disgrace this road is still in the shape it is.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on January 27, 2018, 11:51:03 PM
I had to go to Cork for work On Monday, hadn't been there in nearly 20 years. Once I hit the motorway at Ardee I didn't see a single carriageway until I reached the venue. On Thursday I had to go to Galway. It really hit home how shit the roads are in the West, and more particularly, the north west.

Serious action required to get us even close to the status quo. Too many lives being lost.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on September 04, 2018, 09:43:01 PM
Yet again we've had a couple of tragic days on the A5. This time 3 elderly people have been killed within 3 miles of eachother in Omagh. An elderly couple killed after a collision with a Lorry a mile out of town on the Ballygawley side and today a man knocked down and killed instantly on the through pass (a joke to call it a bypass).

I got caught up in the traffic chaos yesterday coming back from work in Belfast and the town was at a total standstill today with the diversions due to the tragedy today.

Those who blocked the road should hang their heads in shame. Lives are being lost needlessly due to their narrow-minded ways.

Condolences to all involved and to the young mother of 3 killed on the way back from the football in Dublin early Sunday morning.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on September 04, 2018, 10:05:04 PM
Tragic news. The current situation is totally unacceptable. The west has been ignored infrastructure wise for too long.
I imagine the current impasse in Stormont isn't helping either.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Puckoon on September 04, 2018, 11:11:01 PM
Shocking news, very rough couple of days for road accidents.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Owen Brannigan on September 05, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
All three deaths on the A5 were on straight stretches of the road but due to current road design issues.

The poor man killed on the Great Northern was crossing the road to/from the industrial estate, a route taken by dozens every day to/from work. You have to cross to a tiny refuge island in the middle of the road but the road has a 50 mph limit. Traffic flows so fast that every takes some chance to cross over. Hundreds of people work in the industrial estate and even more visit it each day.

None of these deaths and the further accident yesterday evening on the A5 at the Bankmore Road junction would have been prevented by the new road because they occurred within the area of Omagh requiring the Omagh bypass which has always been left unscheduled as part of the A5 construction phases. It is the most obvious phase to put in place given the bottleneck of Omagh on the A5. However the phases are now scheduled Derry to Strabane (3 years) then Ballygawley to near Omagh (3 years) followed by the Omagh Strabane and Omagh bypass at some stage in the future when funds become available.

Those greedy farmers and landowners in the Anti A4 Alliance have a lot to answer for in the delays they have caused in the project which would have finished the first two phases in 2015 if they had not held it back because land prices crashed in 2008.  DFI incompetency has been exposed by the landowners but essentially they are looking for more money for vested land.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on September 06, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on September 05, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
All three deaths on the A5 were on straight stretches of the road but due to current road design issues.

The poor man killed on the Great Northern was crossing the road to/from the industrial estate, a route taken by dozens every day to/from work. You have to cross to a tiny refuge island in the middle of the road but the road has a 50 mph limit. Traffic flows so fast that every takes some chance to cross over. Hundreds of people work in the industrial estate and even more visit it each day.

None of these deaths and the further accident yesterday evening on the A5 at the Bankmore Road junction would have been prevented by the new road because they occurred within the area of Omagh requiring the Omagh bypass which has always been left unscheduled as part of the A5 construction phases. It is the most obvious phase to put in place given the bottleneck of Omagh on the A5. However the phases are now scheduled Derry to Strabane (3 years) then Ballygawley to near Omagh (3 years) followed by the Omagh Strabane and Omagh bypass at some stage in the future when funds become available.

Those greedy farmers and landowners in the Anti A4 Alliance have a lot to answer for in the delays they have caused in the project which would have finished the first two phases in 2015 if they had not held it back because land prices crashed in 2008.  DFI incompetency has been exposed by the landowners but essentially they are looking for more money for vested land.

Accidents are halved by dual carriage ways. I think I read 9 people have been killed since the road was due to be completed. That's 4 or 5 people dead today who should be alive.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: FermGael on November 21, 2018, 10:45:19 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46223550 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46223550)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: giveherlong on November 21, 2018, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: FermGael on November 21, 2018, 10:45:19 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46223550 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46223550)

Has been a complete shambles from day 1
The Dept for Infa and their predecessors have made some balls of this project
Compare the A5 to the progress on A6 (Drumahoe/Dungiven and Ranalstown/C'Dawson)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 21, 2018, 11:14:28 AM
Don't understand why people have objected to this? I assume they will lose their homes etc.

Any plans for a new route?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
I'd have thought this is a good thing. The court  case was challenging the fact that civil servants didn't have the power to make the decision based on the Buick judgement. Now that the legal challenge to this has ended are Civil Servants now free to retake the decision based on the new powers bestowed upon them by Karen Bradley
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: giveherlong on November 21, 2018, 11:40:13 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
I'd have thought this is a good thing. The court  case was challenging the fact that civil servants didn't have the power to make the decision based on the Buick judgement. Now that the legal challenge to this has ended are Civil Servants now free to retake the decision based on the new powers bestowed upon them by Karen Bradley

No powers until March 2019 and I believe they will be very rulunctant to exercise these powers in controversial cases
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
There's a new Perm Sec in DfI and she's a 'doer' so I'd say she'll be happy enough to take the decision and move it along
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: giveherlong on November 21, 2018, 11:57:25 AM
We'll see what KG is made off but I wouldn't be holding out much hope. Would be delighted to be proved wrong!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
The Freestate government should have put this into the UK Withdrawal agreement, together with an Enniskillen bypass and a tunnel under Culloville.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2018, 12:12:48 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 11:50:14 AM
There's a new Perm Sec in DfI and she's a 'doer' so I'd say she'll be happy enough to take the decision and move it along

A civil servant who does anything would be something.
What they previously did was hold meeting with Ministers but not take ministers, shift blame, evade, tell untruths, forget things and go home early.

This whole project is peak NI government. Absent ministers, and incompetent civil servants. People should lose their jobs as a result. How many will? My guess is none. Menawhile the public has to limp on and put up with this shit show.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Excellent stuff there. Brilliantly researched. Well done
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TabClear on November 21, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
Quote from: giveherlong on November 21, 2018, 11:40:13 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 11:17:10 AM
I'd have thought this is a good thing. The court  case was challenging the fact that civil servants didn't have the power to make the decision based on the Buick judgement. Now that the legal challenge to this has ended are Civil Servants now free to retake the decision based on the new powers bestowed upon them by Karen Bradley

No powers until March 2019 and I believe they will be very rulunctant to exercise these powers in controversial cases

Mu understanding is that they are not allowed to take decisions that are deemed controversial even if they were willing to. In all likelihood this will mean the A5 going in the "Too Hard" pile along with the Incinerator and North South Interconnector.

Its an absolute disgrace this road has been allowed to remain how it is. Another young lad from Omagh killed on it a couple of weeks ago to go along with far too many others since this bullsh!t objections campaign began.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Excellent stuff there. Brilliantly researched. Well done

Well, when you see the gross ineptitude surrounding RHI1 and RHI2, you gotta wonder is part of the job description for an NI civil servant involve having IQ in single digits?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2018, 06:48:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
The Freestate government should have put this into the UK Withdrawal agreement, together with an Enniskillen bypass and a tunnel under Culloville.

...and emerge next to the new Casement? ;)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on November 21, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Excellent stuff there. Brilliantly researched. Well done

Well, when you see the gross ineptitude surrounding RHI1 and RHI2, you gotta wonder is part of the job description for an NI civil servant involve having IQ in single digits?

The incompetence of the NI civil service knows no bounds. But if you criticise it you don't know, you haven't researched it.
The NICS is full of people who wouldn't know a days work if it bit them on the arse. A wake up call is needed. When was the last time anyone in any area of authority lost their job in the NICS? Look at the list of failures that they have presided over.
Northern Ireland Civil Service is a by-word for gross incompetence.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on November 22, 2018, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 21, 2018, 11:14:28 AM
Don't understand why people have objected to this? I assume they will lose their homes etc.

Any plans for a new route?
I don't think so, still showing the agreed route on the website.
http://www.a5wtc.com/Map
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2021, 09:56:05 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on September 05, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
All three deaths on the A5 were on straight stretches of the road but due to current road design issues.

The poor man killed on the Great Northern was crossing the road to/from the industrial estate, a route taken by dozens every day to/from work. You have to cross to a tiny refuge island in the middle of the road but the road has a 50 mph limit. Traffic flows so fast that every takes some chance to cross over. Hundreds of people work in the industrial estate and even more visit it each day.

None of these deaths and the further accident yesterday evening on the A5 at the Bankmore Road junction would have been prevented by the new road because they occurred within the area of Omagh requiring the Omagh bypass which has always been left unscheduled as part of the A5 construction phases. It is the most obvious phase to put in place given the bottleneck of Omagh on the A5. However the phases are now scheduled Derry to Strabane (3 years) then Ballygawley to near Omagh (3 years) followed by the Omagh Strabane and Omagh bypass at some stage in the future when funds become available.

Those greedy farmers and landowners in the Anti A4 Alliance have a lot to answer for in the delays they have caused in the project which would have finished the first two phases in 2015 if they had not held it back because land prices crashed in 2008.  DFI incompetency has been exposed by the landowners but essentially they are looking for more money for vested land.

Mad that a high speed road is allowed through the middle of a town where it can mix with pedestrians. If the new A5 is only partly built it should at least bypass Omagh and allow the old Great Northern Railway to run through the town on its original route. Get Portadown and Derry reconnected by rail again, it'd eliminate thousands of car journeys.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 17, 2021, 07:21:18 AM
Can see the new road being downgraded to a few more overtaking opportunities.  The overall political will isn't there for the expenditure on this road.

A new generation will get to wonder why the main road through Aughnacloy goes to Dungannon and the Dublin turn-off is a T-junction.   
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: An Watcher on March 17, 2021, 07:39:36 AM
As a regular user of this road it really angers me that no progress is being made. Similar to Casement Park.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on March 17, 2021, 09:44:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2018, 12:28:30 PM
Excellent stuff there. Brilliantly researched. Well done

Well, when you see the gross ineptitude surrounding RHI1 and RHI2, you gotta wonder is part of the job description for an NI civil servant involve having IQ in single digits?

The incompetence of the NI civil service knows no bounds. But if you criticise it you don't know, you haven't researched it.
The NICS is full of people who wouldn't know a days work if it bit them on the arse. A wake up call is needed. When was the last time anyone in any area of authority lost their job in the NICS? Look at the list of failures that they have presided over.
Northern Ireland Civil Service is a by-word for gross incompetence.

As true today as it was 3 years ago. Incompetence of the NICS remains unrivalled.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on December 27, 2021, 02:31:15 PM
A5 strikes again. 3 young lives lost.  :(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 27, 2021, 02:31:15 PM
A5 strikes again. 3 young lives lost.  :(

Awful news, horrible for those families..

Heart in mouth each time my daughter gets into her car!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 27, 2021, 07:36:39 PM
It's a dangerous road of that there no question, abit like the frosses, one of the few roads I am uncomfortable driving. The constant blocking by land owners is a big issue but like casement Park they only slow down the inevitable, but they can't see that.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on December 28, 2021, 12:18:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 27, 2021, 02:31:15 PM
A5 strikes again. 3 young lives lost.  :(

Awful news, horrible for those families..

Heart in mouth each time my daughter gets into her car!
I know where you're coming from. My kids are in their late 20s but I still recall the sleepless nights we spent when they were younger just waiting for them to come home
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 28, 2021, 01:22:05 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 28, 2021, 12:18:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: GJL on December 27, 2021, 02:31:15 PM
A5 strikes again. 3 young lives lost.  :(

Awful news, horrible for those families..

Heart in mouth each time my daughter gets into her car!
I know where you're coming from. My kids are in their late 20s but I still recall the sleepless nights we spent when they were younger just waiting for them to come home
Same. The eldest is 17 and now has a car. Wasnt home til near 1 last night and I sat up waiting (after ringing to tell him to come home!). Never understood it at that age but do now!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on September 30, 2022, 11:06:07 AM
Another death on this stretch of road, how many more people are going to die before we get a new road.
On a separate note I notice that the news outlets have stopped referring to the road as the "A5" and just use the road name where the accident has happened.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on September 30, 2022, 11:24:52 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on September 30, 2022, 11:06:07 AM
Another death on this stretch of road, how many more people are going to die before we get a new road.
On a separate note I notice that the news outlets have stopped referring to the road as the "A5" and just use the road name where the accident has happened.

It's beyond scandalous. Death after death after death. On top of the accident yesterday which caused this man's death, there was a second (non-fatal thankfully) accident just a few minutes further down the road. It's starting to feel like there's not a week goes by that there's not a news report of a road closure due to a serious accident somewhere along it. Desperately sad to think that more people will die needlessly so long as the upgrade continues to be delayed/sabotaged.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on October 28, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
And again. Another life lost to the A5 yesterday.

The carnage continues.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: God14 on October 28, 2022, 09:04:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on October 28, 2022, 08:52:34 AM
And again. Another life lost to the A5 yesterday.

The carnage continues.

Heart breaking. A talented young gael gone far far too soon
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on October 28, 2022, 11:29:41 AM
In the past year 1 out of every 6 road fatalities in Northern Ireland has occurred on this road. On average someone has been dying on the A5 every 5 weeks.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on October 28, 2022, 11:32:44 AM
Shocking. Another poor family ripped to pieces. It is time for action from the genuinely concerned public to force a new road. Should that be blockages or whatever. Action is needed.  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:35:44 AM
Apologies if already covered but why would local farmers or residents wish to block this scheme?? Surely not some warped thinking about a road to Dublin??
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: God14 on October 28, 2022, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:35:44 AM
Apologies if already covered but why would local farmers or residents wish to block this scheme?? Surely not some warped thinking about a road to Dublin??

Opponents have opposed the compulsory purchase of land and raised environmental issues.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: God14 on October 28, 2022, 11:44:39 AM
Quote from: GJL on October 28, 2022, 11:32:44 AM
Shocking. Another poor family ripped to pieces. It is time for action from the genuinely concerned public to force a new road. Should that be blockages or whatever. Action is needed.  >:( >:( >:(

Totally agree.

It seems far too simple for a small group of activists to halt & delay works like these. Throw in political instability & funding challenges a delay is as good as a defeat for progress
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: God14 on October 28, 2022, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:35:44 AM
Apologies if already covered but why would local farmers or residents wish to block this scheme?? Surely not some warped thinking about a road to Dublin??

Opponents have opposed the compulsory purchase of land and raised environmental issues.

I'm all for the environment but the death toll on this tops everything! The farmers will get well enough compensated for I'm sure is fairly average agricultural land!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2022, 12:11:27 PM
Did Dublin not withdraw their funding initially back in 2019 because SF brought down executive for 2 years?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Mike Tyson on October 28, 2022, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2022, 12:11:27 PM
Did Dublin not withdraw their funding initially back in 2019 because SF brought down executive for 2 years?

No
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2022, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on October 28, 2022, 12:20:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2022, 12:11:27 PM
Did Dublin not withdraw their funding initially back in 2019 because SF brought down executive for 2 years?

No

Sorry deferral

Speaking in the Dáil, the Taoiseach said: "The largest single deferral, which is, of course, not a deferral in reality, is the €27 million we had allocated to A5 this year. That project cannot go ahead because, unfortunately, there is no Executive and there are no Ministers in NI."

We keep making it easy
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2022, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: God14 on October 28, 2022, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:35:44 AM
Apologies if already covered but why would local farmers or residents wish to block this scheme?? Surely not some warped thinking about a road to Dublin??

Opponents have opposed the compulsory purchase of land and raised environmental issues.

I'm all for the environment but the death toll on this tops everything! The farmers will get well enough compensated for I'm sure is fairly average agricultural land!

It is good Protestant land in the valley. If you want your Fenian road then build it among the whins in Gortin.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on October 28, 2022, 02:21:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2022, 12:47:07 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: God14 on October 28, 2022, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 28, 2022, 11:35:44 AM
Apologies if already covered but why would local farmers or residents wish to block this scheme?? Surely not some warped thinking about a road to Dublin??

Opponents have opposed the compulsory purchase of land and raised environmental issues.

I'm all for the environment but the death toll on this tops everything! The farmers will get well enough compensated for I'm sure is fairly average agricultural land!

It is good Protestant land in the valley. If you want your Fenian road then build it among the whins in Gortin.

A Catholic road in Protestant land. That's how they see it.

Absolutely scandalous that this has dragged on this long.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on October 28, 2022, 05:02:03 PM
Seen a stat on twitter earlier that 1 in 6 deaths in the North this past year have occurred on this stretch of the A5. Absolutely f**king scandalous that the upgrade has never progressed. Literally the blood of our community on those who protested. RIP young man, a fine footballer and a great fella by all accounts.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on January 24, 2023, 09:24:51 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64380562 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64380562)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: delgany on January 24, 2023, 10:34:21 AM
The new Centra petrol station on curr road layout is crazy. No right turning lane for traffic going towards Omagh is shocking. Just short off a blind corner . Pure madness, accident black spot in the making !
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2023, 10:44:36 AM
Sadly, this may be one of the most long lived threads on Gaaboard, together with the Casement debacle one.
The current mess on the Dungiven bypass shows how the 6 counties is unwilling to get these projects done.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2023, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2023, 10:44:36 AM
Sadly, this may be one of the most long lived threads on Gaaboard, together with the Casement debacle one.
The current mess on the Dungiven bypass shows how the 6 counties is unwilling to get these projects done.

Its a complete joke of a set up, the A5 Casement the link up from Westlink to the M2 and that Dungiven bypass is just crazy, was up in Donegal at the weekend (my liver is mad at me!!) and driving alongside the bypass and then on it at 40mph is just daft
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Decod89 on January 24, 2023, 10:59:23 AM
Quote from: delgany on January 24, 2023, 10:34:21 AM
The new Centra petrol station on curr road layout is crazy. No right turning lane for traffic going towards Omagh is shocking. Just short off a blind corner . Pure madness, accident black spot in the making !

A really brutal decision by Ferm and Omagh planning on this one. DfI Roads requested a right turn lane. The applicant met DfI Roads and it was agreed that it wasn't necessary.
No minutes of that meeting available, or evidence of what was discussed or how it was agreed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on January 24, 2023, 11:26:20 AM
With the involvement of the Tyrone GAA in this issue now it will harden the unionist side more than ever against it.

This scheme was dead in the water as soon as it was announced. Political sabotage at its best by the unionists.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: JohnDenver on January 24, 2023, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 24, 2023, 11:26:20 AM
With the involvement of the Tyrone GAA in this issue now it will harden the unionist side more than ever against it.

This scheme was dead in the water as soon as it was announced. Political sabotage at its best by the unionists.

There wasn't much softening in their stance over all the years. Planters.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 24, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Will it ever be built? What do we think?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on January 24, 2023, 02:57:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 24, 2023, 11:26:20 AM
With the involvement of the Tyrone GAA in this issue now it will harden the unionist side more than ever against it.

This scheme was dead in the water as soon as it was announced. Political sabotage at its best by the unionists.
Yep.
I don't want to criticse people who've decided to try and do something rather than do nothing, but there was a previous group "Action for the A5", that certainly had strong GAA links, who tried to lobby for its construction without making it an Orange V Green thing
This campaign using the Tyrone GAA red hand in the logo & launched in Garvaghy comes across very much as an "Ourselves alone" kind of thing

Would have been better using the existing logo & holding the launch events in public halls etc, still strongly backed by Tyrone GAA of course, but not run by them. They need to get everyone on board

Paisley Snr referred to it as the "United Ireland Freeway" iirc.
Slogans like that would put some people against it, even if they lived along the route & the new road would benefit them


Given that it was nicely split into 3 separate sections for tender etc, it was pretty disappointing that a planning issue on one section prevented the other 2 from going ahead,

Quote from: trailer on January 24, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Will it ever be built? What do we think?
There was a time when I was sure it would.
Now I think planning will be passed, but the budget will be an issue..
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on January 24, 2023, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on January 24, 2023, 02:57:44 PM
I don't want to criticse people who've decided to try and do something rather than do nothing, but there was a previous group "Action for the A5", that certainly had strong GAA links, who tried to lobby for its construction without making it an Orange V Green thing

Despite that group, nothing has been done.
I was honoured to take part in the powerful video that was created for this. I commend the strength of the people involved, and if they have used the power of Tyrone GAA's profile to get publicity, I certainly won't condemn them for it. This isn't a road to save Nationalist lives, it is to save the lives of our communities.
A Plan B has to emerge if the road isn't ever going to be built as planned.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:19:59 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.

Some chance they open that railway.
The A5 should be built but because it really benefits a load of Nationalists it's being held up by a small minority of Protestant farmers. This is the bottom line. People now criticising Action for A5 because it comes from within the GAA community need to have a word with themselves.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on January 25, 2023, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 09:19:59 AM
Some chance they open that railway.
The A5 should be built but because it really benefits a load of Nationalists it's being held up by a small minority of Protestant farmers. This is the bottom line. People now criticising Action for A5 because it comes from within the GAA community need to have a word with themselves.
Action for the A5 was the previous group
Not criticizing "Enough is Enough", but agreeing with Hereiam
Quote from: Hereiam on January 24, 2023, 11:26:20 AM
With the involvement of the Tyrone GAA in this issue now it will harden the unionist side more than ever against it.
This scheme was dead in the water as soon as it was announced. Political sabotage at its best by the unionists.
Fair play to those who are trying to do something


Quote from: trailer on January 24, 2023, 02:23:55 PM
Will it ever be built? What do we think?

From http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html (http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a5omaghstrabane.html)
The full A5 is now estimated at £1.609 billion.
The original estimate for the A5 was £844m as of 2009 when the Irish government committed to funding £400m
The Irish government contribution has been partly paid (£200m £75 up to 2022) but has not increased.
This means that the amount that Northern Ireland needs to spend has increased from £444m to £1209m, a tripling of the cost.


Irrespective of planning, I can't see it being built now due to the cost
Wesley has suggested alternatives on the above link to do something rather than nothing
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2023, 01:11:33 PM
The Stormont government seriously screwed up by removing the lines to Banbridge, Armagh, Dungannon and Comber, whatever about lines further afield. These would have provided Belfast with commuter services second to none. Even they closed these they should have kept the route.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 25, 2023, 02:41:34 PM
Armagh is the  only city in Ireland  not served by a railway. And I honestly don't see that ever changing  as that would entail just  extending the line from portadown., then stopping.  It would hardly extend  further to Keady, Monaghan etc

A line from portadown to Derry is  more likely (although still not likely) as a continuous line, through dungannon, omagh etc .
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2023, 04:11:18 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 25, 2023, 02:41:34 PM
Armagh is the  only city in Ireland  not served by a railway. And I honestly don't see that ever changing  as that would entail just  extending the line from portadown., then stopping.  It would hardly extend  further to Keady, Monaghan etc

A line from portadown to Derry is  more likely (although still not likely) as a continuous line, through dungannon, omagh etc .

The line to Keady ran under the stand at the Athletic grounds, a new route would be needed.

There is not going to be a line to anywhere built, they might reopen the line from Lisburn to Antrim as it is still there. 
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 25, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
The Politicians and Silly Servants in charge of running NI are the most overpaid and underworked incompetent arseholes anywhere on planet earth.

A5
Casement
Dungiven Bypass
Westlink (M2/M3)
Omagh shared campus
RHI
Enniskillen Hospital
And on it goes... Millions upon millions wasted.

If everyone involved in those projects were transported to Antarctica would we notice they were gone?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 25, 2023, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 25, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
The Politicians and Silly Servants in charge of running NI are the most overpaid and underworked incompetent arseholes anywhere on planet earth.

A5
Casement
Dungiven Bypass
Westlink (M2/M3)
Omagh shared campus
RHI
Enniskillen Hospital
And on it goes... Millions upon millions wasted.

If everyone involved in those projects were transported to Antarctica would we notice they were gone?

Antarctica , another cold  house for nationalists
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2023, 08:38:57 PM
Badly needs a new road, only road outside of the old Frosses in Antrim that I be worried driving on. Could be years to it happen, can't even finish one they started at Dungiven.Going on a year late, for no reason.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 25, 2023, 08:42:58 PM
Well somebody keeps voting then in!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2023, 08:59:44 PM
It's systematic. And Stormont is shut. Which is also systematic. Why not go directly to the UK Government ?
There is a cost to the economy of inferior infrastructure. Derry could really develop with the right investment .
The multiples would be decent.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 25, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Perhaps it's pie in the sky stuff but surely when a road is built it makes sense to build the railway line adjacent to it.

Still cannot get my head around how unionists are against this proposed road. My god I'm sure some of their relatives have lost lives on the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 25, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Perhaps it's pie in the sky stuff but surely when a road is built it makes sense to build the railway line adjacent to it.

Still cannot get my head around how unionists are against this proposed road. My god I'm sure some of their relatives have lost lives on the A5.

I always thought they should have cycle paths running alongside, like a lot of Dutch roads.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 25, 2023, 10:42:01 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 25, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Perhaps it's pie in the sky stuff but surely when a road is built it makes sense to build the railway line adjacent to it.

Still cannot get my head around how unionists are against this proposed road. My god I'm sure some of their relatives have lost lives on the A5.

I always thought they should have cycle paths running alongside, like a lot of Dutch roads.

Oh aye even better! Combine the modes of transport
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 25, 2023, 10:32:47 PM
Perhaps it's pie in the sky stuff but surely when a road is built it makes sense to build the railway line adjacent to it.

Still cannot get my head around how unionists are against this proposed road. My god I'm sure some of their relatives have lost lives on the A5.

Railways are a different animal from roads. They need to be flatter (steel wheels on rails have less grip than rubber tyres on tarmac) and straighter (flanges on the wheels scrape the rails when the turn is too tight). They need their own routes, and they work best when they run right through the middle of urban areas. Limited access highways work best when they connect towns but don't go right into the middle of them.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.

That presupposes that only townies would use the train, but the railway would still be useful to people in the hinterlands. The railway is so useful that people in outlying areas make a point of getting to the stations on it, driving if necessary. It also removes traffic from the road, which frees up capacity for people who absolutely have to drive.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:41:48 AM
https://www.a5wtc.com/ProposedSchemeMenu

"The A5 Western Transport Corridor (A5WTC) is a Northern Ireland Executive led scheme which will provide 85 kilometres of dual carriageway from south of Londonderry at New Buildings to the border at Aughnacloy. It will improve links between the urban centres in the west of the province (Strabane, Newtownstewart, Omagh, Ballygawley and Aughnacloy) and provide a strategic link with international gateways."

Northern Ireland will not be missed
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: cynic on January 26, 2023, 09:13:29 AM
West of the Bann-ed - all part of a pattern:

- Nearly no universities (new Ulster campus at Coleraine, instead of the obvious larger Derry, long painful struggle to get Derry campus developed, only progressed from the 90s)

- Poor quality infrastructure (water pipes cheaper and badly maintained, as admitted by an engineer in a recent water shortage)

- Invest NI grants largely going East

- No piped gas

- No motorways

- No railways of the kind used by my parents and grandparents up to 1957 (who only had to cycle 2 miles to get a train to either Belfast or Dublin) - see: https://twitter.com/upthewoodenhill/status/1380807523754729478/photo/1

I always remember, as a small boy, in 1975, feeling slightly puzzled that the Loyalists blew up our nearly-completed new Catholic primary school.  How could you be threatened by a mere primary school, I thought, as I resigned myself to another year in the old dilapidated primary (where my grandparents had gone) with its outside dry toilets, rats under the floorboards, broken windows closed with cardboard, no sports facilities of any sort, no heating, no school meals etc etc.

But it was all part of a broader agenda.  Anything that looked like progress for them'uns had to be resisted at all costs.

As Edwin Poots' Dad, Charles Poots, made clear in 1975:

"If I was in control of this country, it would not be in the same state that it is in now.  I would cut off all supplies, including water and electricity, to Catholic areas.  And I would stop Catholics form getting social security.  It is the only way to deal with enemies of the state and to stamp out the present troubles."

Old ways die hard, folks.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: johnnycool on January 26, 2023, 10:08:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.

I'd to drive down to Fermanagh quite a bit and the road from Ballygawley into Enniskillen wasn't great but somehow got a bit spent on it when that G7 or whatever it was, was on in the Lough Erne Resort. Strange that.

Is the A5 really an Orange/Green issue or are some reading too much into it?

I believe some farmers have objections to the CPO's on their land, but any nationalist farmer I know would be the same.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smort on January 26, 2023, 10:10:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.

Great article

Although I got so angry reading it!  >:(
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2023, 10:16:30 AM
then you have Sammy Wilson going on about stuff in Derry when he is probably as responsible as anyone for any nationalists not getting funding. You look at councils like ballymena, east antrim, ards etc and there's still a way to go equality wise despite what a vocal loyalist minority would have you believe.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:11:00 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2023, 10:08:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.

I'd to drive down to Fermanagh quite a bit and the road from Ballygawley into Enniskillen wasn't great but somehow got a bit spent on it when that G7 or whatever it was, was on in the Lough Erne Resort. Strange that.

Is the A5 really an Orange/Green issue or are some reading too much into it?

I believe some farmers have objections to the CPO's on their land, but any nationalist farmer I know would be the same.
It looks like the road is also the victim of austerity and budget cuts . It had already been planned around 2012 which is a long time ago now.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2023, 11:28:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.

A good article which I had read before. Important to note for those in the North who might be inclined to vote Alliance or Green that they are in the same basket as Unionists when it comes to infrastructure in the west.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on January 26, 2023, 12:18:33 PM
Its the optics of this road that the unionists wont allow.
They cant have it that there would be a main arterial route going straight through the north linking Donegal to Monaghan.
Its the same reason why the A1 will never be upgraded, they have to keep a broken link.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 26, 2023, 12:18:33 PM
Its the optics of this road that the unionists wont allow.
They cant have it that there would be a main arterial route going straight through the north linking Donegal to Monaghan.
Its the same reason why the A1 will never be upgraded, they have to keep a broken link.

The A1 barring the odd 60mph bit is grand during the day, I hate, hate driving that place at night time, those exits/entrances from the side roads are dangerous
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on January 26, 2023, 12:28:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 26, 2023, 12:18:33 PM
Its the optics of this road that the unionists wont allow.
They cant have it that there would be a main arterial route going straight through the north linking Donegal to Monaghan.
Its the same reason why the A1 will never be upgraded, they have to keep a broken link.

The A1 barring the odd 60mph bit is grand during the day, I hate, hate driving that place at night time, those exits/entrances from the side roads are dangerous
It's a horrible road. Ever try to get across it to turn right? Should have been upgraded years ago!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on January 26, 2023, 12:33:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.
It should have been fenced off! ;)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.

Decades of regional underinvestment is clearly the fault of SF.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:48:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.

Decades of regional underinvestment is clearly the fault of SF.

Sorry I answered a question, but you are dead right, SF controlled councils and of course as SF were the second and are now largest party in Stormont it is absolutely 100% not their fault for any under investment or last of facilities and to suggest such would be highly inaccurate.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 01:02:09 PM
It's really weird that none of the motorways go anywhere near the border.
NI's economy isn't strong enough to support such nonsense.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 01:05:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:48:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.

Decades of regional underinvestment is clearly the fault of SF.

Sorry I answered a question, but you are dead right, SF controlled councils and of course as SF were the second and are now largest party in Stormont it is absolutely 100% not their fault for any under investment or last of facilities and to suggest such would be highly inaccurate.
It is 60 odd years since the profitable railway serving Co Tyrone was closed by Unionists; and the subsequent motorway promised to replaced it is still yet to be built... of course it is the fault of SF.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 01:22:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.

Since taking control, have things changed much?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2023, 01:22:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 01:05:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:48:50 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 11:57:39 AM
Another disadvantage of the Union. If Tyrone was in the Republic the EU would probably fund the road. It would shorten the journey back with Sam Maguire.

Tyrone is constantly disadvantaged. It's the biggest county in the North yet has no Trains.
Roads are questionable and the M1 stops at Dgn with the lethal Ballygawley / Dgn only upgraded in the 2000s
In terms of public facilities we have nowhere near enough leisure facilities or public parks. Civil society constantly fills the breech.
And don't even get started on the persecution of the GAA community by the Southern Media and GAA in Dublin.

Who runs the council?

Losing the run of myself a bit to be fair.

SF controlled councils.

Decades of regional underinvestment is clearly the fault of SF.

Sorry I answered a question, but you are dead right, SF controlled councils and of course as SF were the second and are now largest party in Stormont it is absolutely 100% not their fault for any under investment or last of facilities and to suggest such would be highly inaccurate.
It is 60 odd years since the profitable railway serving Co Tyrone was closed by Unionists; and the subsequent motorway promised to replaced it is still yet to be built... of course it is the fault of SF.

It's not. I said it wasn't. Nothing is SF's fault.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
I often wondered why  Britain took Tyrone and Fermanagh.  Both counties had  nationalist majorities 100 years ago,  and A lot of the land  in both counties  is quite poor, is it not?  And frig me , some parts of both counties are wild, desolate hellholes. Both counties  were probably more trouble than they were worth , especially when it came  to policing  their borders with the south.  Tyrone had a natural border with Armagh  (blackwater) and with Lough Neagh. Easier patrolled there so it was

I can understand taking  Derry , as Britain would still have  Derry port/Lough foyle and access to the  North Atlantic
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2023, 02:25:29 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
I often wondered why  Britain took Tyrone and Fermanagh.  Both counties had  nationalist majorities 100 years ago,  and A lot of the land  in both counties  is quite poor, is it not?  And frig me , some parts of both counties are wild, desolate hellholes. Both counties  were probably more trouble than they were worth , especially when it came  to policing  their borders with the south.  Tyrone had a natural border with Armagh  (blackwater) and with Lough Neagh. Easier patrolled there so it was

I can understand taking  Derry , as Britain would still have  Derry port/Lough foyle and access to the  North Atlantic

There was a rake of Lord type people living in Fermanagh, well got with the powers that be. If you take Fermanagh then you need Tyrone to get there.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 26, 2023, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2023, 10:08:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 09:46:04 AM
This is a really good analysis of infrastructural apartheid in the North:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2021/03/18/tackling-northern-irelands-infrastructure-apartheid-part-1-the-problem/

Tyrone and Fermanagh have the highest percentages of nationalists because they were tagged on as an afterthought in 1920 .
They also have the worst infrastructure.

I'd to drive down to Fermanagh quite a bit and the road from Ballygawley into Enniskillen wasn't great but somehow got a bit spent on it when that G7 or whatever it was, was on in the Lough Erne Resort. Strange that.

Is the A5 really an Orange/Green issue or are some reading too much into it?

I believe some farmers have objections to the CPO's on their land, but any nationalist farmer I know would be the same.

I think the price attached to the CPO's is part of it. The value attached was around half of that attached to land purchased for the A4. The CPO's for the A4 were pre-crash and for the A5 post-crash.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
I often wondered why  Britain took Tyrone and Fermanagh.  Both counties had  nationalist majorities 100 years ago,  and A lot of the land  in both counties  is quite poor, is it not?  And frig me , some parts of both counties are wild, desolate hellholes. Both counties  were probably more trouble than they were worth , especially when it came  to policing  their borders with the south.  Tyrone had a natural border with Armagh  (blackwater) and with Lough Neagh. Easier patrolled there so it was

I can understand taking  Derry , as Britain would still have  Derry port/Lough foyle and access to the  North Atlantic
I think they needed a minimum size for long term viability and the Taig population was less than 1/3 and everything would always be the same
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:11:09 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d40a9f1a-fc56-44dd-b4c4-967a6b107ade
By almost every measure, Northern Ireland is starting from a low base. A research paper published by economists at Trinity College Dublin in 2019 charted decades of inadequate spending on education and infrastructure, a failure to attract inward investment, and a largely one-way flow of talent from the region.
The result has been economic underperformance relative to the UK and the Irish Republic for much of Northern Ireland's first century, despite massive subsidies from the British government and a surge in state jobs in areas such as defence and security.

This is a great map of the border issue in 1920/21. Partition was always going to be a mess.

https://img.rasset.ie/img-epiclive/00172edc-full.jpg
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Chief Whip on January 26, 2023, 03:21:19 PM
I remember a few years back there was a row of round bales up on the hill with the words "9 in a row" for everyone who drove the road to see.

At the time there were alot of indiscriminate killings of catholics by the loyalists. I don't say nationalists, it didnt matter.  Scary times, imagine being a mother or father when your child went out for the night
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on January 26, 2023, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.

That presupposes that only townies would use the train, but the railway would still be useful to people in the hinterlands. The railway is so useful that people in outlying areas make a point of getting to the stations on it, driving if necessary. It also removes traffic from the road, which frees up capacity for people who absolutely have to drive.

Omagh has an hourly bus service. I have never heard that it is over capacity (50 people / hour) I am not convinced that having a train going via Portadown and taking a similar length of time would convert a significant additional number of people to public transport.

How many people's would travel from Strabane to take the train from Derry to Belfast or how many people from Banbridge would travel the 2 miles to catch the train at Scarva?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 07:04:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
I often wondered why  Britain took Tyrone and Fermanagh.  Both counties had  nationalist majorities 100 years ago,  and A lot of the land  in both counties  is quite poor, is it not?  And frig me , some parts of both counties are wild, desolate hellholes. Both counties  were probably more trouble than they were worth , especially when it came  to policing  their borders with the south.  Tyrone had a natural border with Armagh  (blackwater) and with Lough Neagh. Easier patrolled there so it was

I can understand taking  Derry , as Britain would still have  Derry port/Lough foyle and access to the  North Atlantic
I think they needed a minimum size for long term viability and the Taig population was less than 1/3 and everything would always be the same

Yes , as you say ,  6 counties is a minimum size for long term  viability but  that will go out the window  if push come to shove and unionists would settle for less  to maintain their majority.  Thats Derry Fermanagh and Tyrone gone

When you look at the infrastructure map of the north , and unionism's  blatant  disregard for anything west of the bann , maybe they knew  their acre of ground  would have to narrow so they looked after their own corner of the field
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 26, 2023, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.

That presupposes that only townies would use the train, but the railway would still be useful to people in the hinterlands. The railway is so useful that people in outlying areas make a point of getting to the stations on it, driving if necessary. It also removes traffic from the road, which frees up capacity for people who absolutely have to drive.

Omagh has an hourly bus service. I have never heard that it is over capacity (50 people / hour) I am not convinced that having a train going via Portadown and taking a similar length of time would convert a significant additional number of people to public transport.

How many people's would travel from Strabane to take the train from Derry to Belfast or how many people from Banbridge would travel the 2 miles to catch the train at Scarva?

Buses get stuck in traffic, are slower than driving, and less comfortable than the train. The number of people taking the bus is no indicator how how many people would take the train. The traffic on the roads is a better indicator of demand for travel on a route.

Scarva is an under-utilised station. Translink could do a better job of getting people from Banbridge to use it, but more frequent services from the station would be a prerequisite for that. It seems to be 2 trains in the morning and 3 at night at this point, so it's hardly a viable alternative to the car in its present state.

I grew up 6 miles from Lurgan station and would often use the train for journeys to Belfast or Dublin if I had business within a walkable distance of the station at the other end. The convenience of the train dropping you off in the middle of town in a speedy manner justifies the effort in getting to the station.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 26, 2023, 12:18:33 PM
Its the optics of this road that the unionists wont allow.
They cant have it that there would be a main arterial route going straight through the north linking Donegal to Monaghan.
Its the same reason why the A1 will never be upgraded, they have to keep a broken link.

A lad in our geography class in school once asked why the motorway goes to Dungannon instead of towards Dublin which would be more useful. The teacher broke into a Paisley impersonation and said "because I refuse to recognizze the Republic of Ireland!" with the whistling s in recognise. He said they were more interested in internal connections in the north than connections with the south. And he was right.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 07:45:59 PM
You used to be able to take the train to Bundoran, Enniskillen, Omagh, Strabane, Dungannon, Pomeroy, Cookstown, Stewartstown, Coalisland, Magherafelt, Banbridge, Armagh, Monaghan, Clones, Newcastle, Comber, all over the place. County Donegal also had a comprehensive narrow gauge network covering more miles than Translink manages today. People should be outraged about what was taken from them. https://youtu.be/rUT_cpamUHU (https://youtu.be/rUT_cpamUHU)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2023, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 07:45:59 PM
You used to be able to take the train to Bundoran, Enniskillen, Omagh, Strabane, Dungannon, Pomeroy, Cookstown, Stewartstown, Coalisland, Magherafelt, Banbridge, Armagh, Monaghan, Clones, Newcastle, Comber, all over the place. County Donegal also had a comprehensive narrow gauge network covering more miles than Translink manages today. People should be outraged about what was taken from them. https://youtu.be/rUT_cpamUHU (https://youtu.be/rUT_cpamUHU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29gwdZrSeWU
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 08:09:58 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 07:04:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 26, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
I often wondered why  Britain took Tyrone and Fermanagh.  Both counties had  nationalist majorities 100 years ago,  and A lot of the land  in both counties  is quite poor, is it not?  And frig me , some parts of both counties are wild, desolate hellholes. Both counties  were probably more trouble than they were worth , especially when it came  to policing  their borders with the south.  Tyrone had a natural border with Armagh  (blackwater) and with Lough Neagh. Easier patrolled there so it was

I can understand taking  Derry , as Britain would still have  Derry port/Lough foyle and access to the  North Atlantic
I think they needed a minimum size for long term viability and the Taig population was less than 1/3 and everything would always be the same


Yes , as you say ,  6 counties is a minimum size for long term  viability but  that will go out the window  if push come to shove and unionists would settle for less  to maintain their majority.  Thats Derry Fermanagh and Tyrone gone

When you look at the infrastructure map of the north , and unionism's  blatant  disregard for anything west of the bann , maybe they knew  their acre of ground  would have to narrow so they looked after their own corner of the field
They had no economic foresight so I can't see a slimmed down unit flying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY2FgX6dhCc&t=78s
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on January 26, 2023, 10:22:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 26, 2023, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.

That presupposes that only townies would use the train, but the railway would still be useful to people in the hinterlands. The railway is so useful that people in outlying areas make a point of getting to the stations on it, driving if necessary. It also removes traffic from the road, which frees up capacity for people who absolutely have to drive.

Omagh has an hourly bus service. I have never heard that it is over capacity (50 people / hour) I am not convinced that having a train going via Portadown and taking a similar length of time would convert a significant additional number of people to public transport.

How many people's would travel from Strabane to take the train from Derry to Belfast or how many people from Banbridge would travel the 2 miles to catch the train at Scarva?

Buses get stuck in traffic, are slower than driving, and less comfortable than the train. The number of people taking the bus is no indicator how how many people would take the train. The traffic on the roads is a better indicator of demand for travel on a route.

Scarva is an under-utilised station. Translink could do a better job of getting people from Banbridge to use it, but more frequent services from the station would be a prerequisite for that. It seems to be 2 trains in the morning and 3 at night at this point, so it's hardly a viable alternative to the car in its present state.

I grew up 6 miles from Lurgan station and would often use the train for journeys to Belfast or Dublin if I had business within a walkable distance of the station at the other end. The convenience of the train dropping you off in the middle of town in a speedy manner justifies the effort in getting to the station.
Yeah personally I would get the train if possible to go to Belfast/Dublin but i would never get a bus
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on January 26, 2023, 11:14:18 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 26, 2023, 06:21:48 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 26, 2023, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 09:41:58 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 25, 2023, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 25, 2023, 06:58:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2023, 08:17:11 PM
Heard this clampit on Nolan's show this morning and wanted to reach through the radio and wring his neck!!

https://twitter.com/stephennolan/status/1617870665700319232?s=46&t=fGrYjuK5gKO6-5Rz-dhDZg

He has a point. The only sure way to cut the number of road deaths is to cut the number of vehicle miles travelled, and that means giving people viable alternatives to private cars.

I'd be in favour of part of the A5 project if it meant bypassing Omagh and allowing the current A5 route to go back to its original use as part of the Portadown-Dungannon-Omagh-Derry railway that should never have been closed. Ditto for Strabane.
Public transport works where there is sufficient population density to make regular services viable.
There is some push on Twitter to have the Antrim to Lisburn line reopened to allow a regular (every 15 minutes) each way service between Belfast, Lisburn, Crumlin, Aldergrove, Antrim, Templepatrick Newtonabbey, Belfast (the circle line). That sort of investment, and I know it is in the East, would take many more cars off the road that a twice a day service to Castlederg or Drumquin.

Yes, we need to get more cars of the road and the Great Northern railway would benefit many who live along its route,  but West Tyrone is a rural area where car dependency cannot be easily eradicated.

Omagh is the biggest town in the north without a railway station, and there are far smaller towns with stations (Scarva, anyone?). There's plenty of justification for reopening that line through Dungannon, which in my opinion should be a higher priority than the complete A5.

There used to be a narrow gauge branch line that went to Castlederg from the mainline station at Victoria Bridge. No railway ever went to Drumquin that I'm aware of.

Restoring the railway is only part of the job. The other part is adjusting settlement patterns so that more people cluster around stations instead of having traffic-inducing bungalow blight peppered over the countryside.

The Knockmore line that you speak of is the lowest hanging fruit of all the railway reopenings since the tracks are still there and still in occasional use for certain types of movement. Putting a halt at Aldergrove and connecting it to the rest of the network in a Belfast circle line is a no-brainer. Following that I'd like to see Portadown-Armagh reopened. 10 miles of undisturbed route just sitting there with cuttings, embankments, and half the bridges already in place. It'd prove the concept of reopening a dormant line, and would build popular support for the reopening of the old Derry Road line.

Omagh has a population of around 20,000. There are 4-5 times that number living in the 'hinterlands'. Do we continue to let people die on that road while you spend the next 15-20 years doing proof of concept and building the "into the west" railway. That does not help the people of Drumquin or Dromore or Gortin or Trillick,etc.

A rail line is a  nice to have and would support a % of the population in 10 or 15 years but the road is needed now.

That presupposes that only townies would use the train, but the railway would still be useful to people in the hinterlands. The railway is so useful that people in outlying areas make a point of getting to the stations on it, driving if necessary. It also removes traffic from the road, which frees up capacity for people who absolutely have to drive.

Omagh has an hourly bus service. I have never heard that it is over capacity (50 people / hour) I am not convinced that having a train going via Portadown and taking a similar length of time would convert a significant additional number of people to public transport.

How many people's would travel from Strabane to take the train from Derry to Belfast or how many people from Banbridge would travel the 2 miles to catch the train at Scarva?
Build it and they will come. Hardly anyone uses the hourly train from Lurgan to Belfast after 10am but beforehand the train is rammed, likewise at the other end from 4pm onwards (don't think the bus is) The popularity of the reinvigorated Derry line is surely proof that the demand will be met - it's regularly rammed as well.

Scarva is hardly a good example. It's a barely used halt and it's probably only still open because of the sham fight every July, I'm sure if a purpose built park n ride was built along with more regular commuter services you'd soon see Banbridge people use it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 11:50:38 AM
Another death today? An utter disgrace!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 11:50:38 AM
Another death today? An utter disgrace!

Rumours at this but heard there are possibly 3 deaths.
Nothing confirmed at this point. Just desperate news.
An utter disgrace.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: square_ball on April 27, 2023, 11:56:54 AM
Unfortunately I heard there's more than 1 fatality. Tragic.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:27:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!
The people to blame are the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group. They have furstrated and delayed the process at every turn with a succession of legal challenges etc and the blood of every victim who dies on that road is on their hands. Let there be no doubt or confusion or muddying the waters about that.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:29:02 PM
DUP and UUP politicians offer sympathy but no reporter has asked them if they support the new road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:42:56 PM
I thought for major infrastructure projects you have a compulsory purchase order where the landowner has to free up the land and are compensated appropriately.

Surely to God they aren't blocking this road over some warped idea of a road to Dublin! Please tell me they ain't that bad. It's not as if the A1 Belfast to Newry runs through solely nationalist areas and it's getting upgraded - another death trap of a road BTW
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Feckitt on April 27, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
I'm not from Tyrone but I have had cause to be on that road a couple of times lately and it is a genuinely scary experience.  I'm no shrinking violet my any stretch, but it was an extremely stressful experience driving between Caledon and Aughnacloy on the very straight road where the overtaking is absolutely f**king ridiculous.  Then the stretch between Ballygawley and Omagh has so many hazards it beggars belief.
They need to get this death trap of a road sorted, but in the mean time people need to slow down.  I don't know the details of the latest crash and I am not trying to speculate, but ordinary decent people drive in such a reckless manner every day
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:50:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

Any large infrastructure project will have objectors, but that doesn't mean that fault can just be lazily placed at the door of the Civil Service and politicians. To say that the road would be completed only for them is just total waffle. Legal challenges supersede the influence of both. Not one yard or tar has been put down on this road squarely a result of legal challenges by a group of landowners acting out of both selfish and, call a spade a spade... sectarian interests, and hiding behind bogus claims of environmentalism while remaining totally unmoved by the ever increasing number of lives lost.

Letting these AA5A b*****ds off the hook, especially on a day like today, is just not on.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola

When the project was announced and agreed Conor Murphy (SF) was the minister. Danny Kennedy (UUP), Michelle McIlveen (DUP) and Chris Hazard (SF) have all held the post. Do they not all share blame?

Furthermore - it is not lazy to blame the CS and ministers. The land had already went through a compulsory purchase and in the New Buildings area had been fenced off in preparation of the road starting (roughly 2014 / 15 from memory). Why was that done if the road was still undergoing a legal challenge?
Incompetence has dogged the project. CS shitheads who would be completely unemployable in the private workplace.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2023, 01:53:54 PM
The way public expenditure in NI is going, the 26 county government will have to donate some money to surface this road never mind widen it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on April 27, 2023, 02:05:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola

When the project was announced and agreed Conor Murphy (SF) was the minister. Danny Kennedy (UUP), Michelle McIlveen (DUP) and Chris Hazard (SF) have all held the post. Do they not all share blame?

Furthermore - it is not lazy to blame the CS and ministers. The land had already went through a compulsory purchase and in the New Buildings area had been fenced off in preparation of the road starting (roughly 2014 / 15 from memory). Why was that done if the road was still undergoing a legal challenge?
Incompetence has dogged the project. CS shitheads who would be completely unemployable in the private workplace.

If the same things were going on in the department under those ministers - then yes, they do share the blame

But if what you say is correct, that's a bit ridiculous from Nichola

She was the head honcho - if her department was a shambles, well that's nobody's responsibility but hers


PS. you'll get no argument from me about CS and their relative employability in the private sector

PPS. I can't imagine you making the same excuses for ministers from 'other' parties

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola

When the project was announced and agreed Conor Murphy (SF) was the minister. Danny Kennedy (UUP), Michelle McIlveen (DUP) and Chris Hazard (SF) have all held the post. Do they not all share blame?

Furthermore - it is not lazy to blame the CS and ministers. The land had already went through a compulsory purchase and in the New Buildings area had been fenced off in preparation of the road starting (roughly 2014 / 15 from memory). Why was that done if the road was still undergoing a legal challenge?
Incompetence has dogged the project. CS shitheads who would be completely unemployable in the private workplace.

And how did the erection of a bit fencing delay the road? Your claim was that the road would be complete by now were it not for the incompetence of politicians and civil servants, which is a wholly stupid thing to say. The delay have been down to the succession of legal challenges by the morally bankrupt AA5A group. Are you suggesting that politicians and civil servants should have cracked on with the construction and ignored the legal procedures they are bound by?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on April 27, 2023, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola

When the project was announced and agreed Conor Murphy (SF) was the minister. Danny Kennedy (UUP), Michelle McIlveen (DUP) and Chris Hazard (SF) have all held the post. Do they not all share blame?

Furthermore - it is not lazy to blame the CS and ministers. The land had already went through a compulsory purchase and in the New Buildings area had been fenced off in preparation of the road starting (roughly 2014 / 15 from memory). Why was that done if the road was still undergoing a legal challenge?
Incompetence has dogged the project. CS shitheads who would be completely unemployable in the private workplace.

And how did the erection of a bit fencing delay the road? Your claim was that the road would be complete by now were it not for the incompetence of politicians and civil servants, which is a wholly stupid thing to say. The delay have been down to the succession of legal challenges by the morally bankrupt AA5A group. Are you suggesting that politicians and civil servants should have cracked on with the construction and ignored the legal procedures they are bound by?

If I recall correctly there was in the region of £100m spent back in the day on the fencing etc! All lost now of course. Complete incompetency!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TabClear on April 27, 2023, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:27:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!
The people to blame are the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group. They have furstrated and delayed the process at every turn with a succession of legal challenges etc and the blood of every victim who dies on that road is on their hands. Let there be no doubt or confusion or muddying the waters about that.

Who is bankrolling this group? Legal challenges cant be cheap, even for your normal "landowner"
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 02:18:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 27, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 12:27:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!

It's a microcosm of NI. A complete failure in politics by all the parties, government and Civil Servants. Nothing is ever done. Nothing is ever achieved.

Muddying the waters and ignoring the real reason for the delays. Things can get done. Other roads are done routinely. This project has not gotten off the ground purely as a result of obstruction by the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group of landowners, and they should not be let off the hook like that when we get tragedies like todays.

As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?

Put them blame squarely where it f**king belongs.

I agree the AA5A have been the road blocking organisation but with correct political oversight and a proper run civil service this should already have been built. Like you said other roads get built and you think nobody is objecting to them?

I should say that I spoke with Nicola Mallon when she ran the Infrastructure department and the goings on was ridiculous. They wouldn't agree to anything. Everything needed another meeting. At times they held meeting before and after meeting her with no minutes. The carry on was of a group of people trying to keep their jobs while doing very little work. Health and Infrastructure were the last two portfolios picked the last time D'Hondt was run. There's a reason for that.

Sorry, but the blame for that lies squarely with their boss... who was Nichola

When the project was announced and agreed Conor Murphy (SF) was the minister. Danny Kennedy (UUP), Michelle McIlveen (DUP) and Chris Hazard (SF) have all held the post. Do they not all share blame?

Furthermore - it is not lazy to blame the CS and ministers. The land had already went through a compulsory purchase and in the New Buildings area had been fenced off in preparation of the road starting (roughly 2014 / 15 from memory). Why was that done if the road was still undergoing a legal challenge?
Incompetence has dogged the project. CS shitheads who would be completely unemployable in the private workplace.

And how did the erection of a bit fencing delay the road? Your claim was that the road would be complete by now were it not for the incompetence of politicians and civil servants, which is a wholly stupid thing to say. The delay have been down to the succession of legal challenges by the morally bankrupt AA5A group. Are you suggesting that politicians and civil servants should have cracked on with the construction and ignored the legal procedures they are bound by?

Why did the CS allow the land to be fenced if it was still open to legal challenge? Why have the CS allowed legal challenge upon legal challenge? You realise this is ongoing 15+ years? Some going for one group to hold up a project for that long. They of course are the blockage, I agree with you, but why hasn't the dept got it ducks in a row? Sheer incompetence.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 03:12:18 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 27, 2023, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:27:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!
The people to blame are the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group. They have furstrated and delayed the process at every turn with a succession of legal challenges etc and the blood of every victim who dies on that road is on their hands. Let there be no doubt or confusion or muddying the waters about that.

Who is bankrolling this group? Legal challenges cant be cheap, even for your normal "landowner"

Another gripe I have is that reporters will say "An AA5A spokeperson says..." f**king name them. They can't remain faceless!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Ty4Sam on April 27, 2023, 03:32:24 PM
3 more dead today with a couple more critical, enough is enough. Like 99% of people from Tyrone and those who use this road, I'm just tired talking/arguing about this. A5 Alliance should hang their heads in shame, we know that they won't though. This needs sorted and sorted very quickly!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: pbat on April 27, 2023, 03:32:49 PM
3 confirmed dead, desperate stuff.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 03:33:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:34:22 PM
As the Tyrone County Board noted at the launch of their 'A5: Enough is Enough' launch in January:

Quote
The A8 road scheme between Belfast and Larne started in May 2008 and was completed in December 2016. That was 7 years, 6 months and 25 days from beginning to end.
If the A5 had been delivered in a similar timeframe 22 of the A5 deaths might well have been avoided. At the current rate at least another 4 deaths will occur on the A5 in 2023.

Sadly it seems at least one of those 4 deaths has now occurred already. Who'd realistically expect the number to only reach 4 by the end of this year?


As mentioned earlier, the Tyrone County Board predicted in January that at the existing rate of deaths on the A5, there would be four more fatalities on the road by the end of 2023. It's now been confirmed that three lives were lost on it today alone.

Needlessly.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:34:04 PM
FFS this is a complete disgrace.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?

Others will know better than me but I recently was on it - winding bends, overtaking lanes (utter disaster), volume of traffic and tractors were the main observations. People forced to take needless risks.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2023, 03:51:37 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?

Others will know better than me but I recently was on it - winding bends, overtaking lanes (utter disaster), volume of traffic and tractors were the main observations. People forced to take needless risks.

The sheer volume of traffic and the different types, Agricultural, heavy haulage, commuters, school runs/buses all sorts. Hills, bends, busy intersections. It's everything all in one. Unfortunately more lives will be lost.

RIP to those who have lost their lives today.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on April 27, 2023, 08:15:45 PM
I have to pull out onto this road numerous times a day and at peak times you could site for 5-8 minutes waiting on a chance to get out.
The road is not fit for purpose, its as simple as that. The reason this road hasn't been built is down to 2 reasons
1. The fact that it was going to provide a transport link between Monaghan and Donegal which the Unionist wont allow (not an inch)
2. It is west of the Bann and we cant have them getting new roads.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 08:30:34 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on April 27, 2023, 08:15:45 PM
I have to pull out onto this road numerous times a day and at peak times you could site for 5-8 minutes waiting on a chance to get out.
The road is not fit for purpose, its as simple as that. The reason this road hasn't been built is down to 2 reasons
1. The fact that it was going to provide a transport link between Monaghan and Donegal which the Unionist wont allow (not an inch)
2. It is west of the Bann and we cant have them getting new roads.

How can local farmers have so much sway in a nationalist dominated area! West Tyrone MP has been SF a long long time.. these pricks need the land taken off them and the road built
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clarshack on April 27, 2023, 08:42:53 PM
Seen the Police had to put out a statement for people not to be taking/sharing pictures of the crash scene.
Wtf is wrong with people? there should be a law where anyone caught taking or sharing such images goes to prison. No exceptions.

I think this also happened to some poor woman who died in a crash on the M50.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: RedHand88 on April 27, 2023, 08:47:17 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 27, 2023, 08:42:53 PM
Seen the Police had to put out a statement for people not to be taking/sharing pictures of the crash scene.
Wtf is wrong with people? there should be a law where anyone caught taking or sharing such images goes to prison. No exceptions.

The photo on the BBC website leaves little to the imagination.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 27, 2023, 08:42:53 PM
Seen the Police had to put out a statement for people not to be taking/sharing pictures of the crash scene.
Wtf is wrong with people? there should be a law where anyone caught taking or sharing such images goes to prison. No exceptions.

I think this also happened to some poor woman who died in a crash on the M50.

Unfortunately with the amount of shite we see online and get sent on our phones we've become desensitised to this kinda thing.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on April 27, 2023, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 27, 2023, 08:42:53 PM
Seen the Police had to put out a statement for people not to be taking/sharing pictures of the crash scene.
Wtf is wrong with people? there should be a law where anyone caught taking or sharing such images goes to prison. No exceptions.

I think this also happened to some poor woman who died in a crash on the M50.

Correct.

What is wrong with people?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 27, 2023, 10:12:32 PM
The young fella got sent it and showed it to me. Absolutely sickening that people think that it is normal to take and share those sort of images. I made him delete it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on April 27, 2023, 10:35:02 PM
Just heard that I know the family involved. Heartbreaking.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 28, 2023, 12:21:04 AM
Even when new road gets the go-ahead it will be built in pieces e.g. Newbuildings bit first then say Omagh by-pass bit.

I think where today's accident was not a priority stretch to get upgraded as the traffic is less heavy after Ballygawley roundabout with lots of the traffic flow going to Belfast at that point.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2023, 03:25:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2023, 03:12:18 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 27, 2023, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on April 27, 2023, 12:27:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
Who is to blame here. Surely Sinn Fein can get more done on this??? F*CK we hear more about casement than this road!!!
The people to blame are the 'Alternative A5 Alliance' group. They have furstrated and delayed the process at every turn with a succession of legal challenges etc and the blood of every victim who dies on that road is on their hands. Let there be no doubt or confusion or muddying the waters about that.

Who is bankrolling this group? Legal challenges cant be cheap, even for your normal "landowner"

Another gripe I have is that reporters will say "An AA5A spokeperson says..." f**king name them. They can't remain faceless!

Some lad called Hamilton Hazzard seems to be their main spokesman, not hard to find.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 03:41:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?

Others will know better than me but I recently was on it - winding bends, overtaking lanes (utter disaster), volume of traffic and tractors were the main observations. People forced to take needless risks.

I have every sympathy with those who those who say they are forced to sit and wait a long time before they can join the road. And we all have massive sympathy for the families impacted by the number of tragedies on this road.

I am less sympathetic to to the claim that people are "forced" to take "needless risks". In addition to the obvious contradiction in terms we have to use the road that's there, with all its frustrations, rather the road that we want to be there.

There is no doubt that this upgrade is long overdue. Along with the York Street junction in Belfast these issues desperately need addressing. Someone mentioned Casement Park. Most would agree that these 2 road projects are much higher priorities.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on April 28, 2023, 04:43:55 PM
Would a reopening  Of the  railway from Derry to portadown help ease  traffic numbers in  that part of the country?

I doubt we'll ever see  it happen mind you ,  but  I think it's needed. Along with the  A5, obviously
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 05:16:15 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 03:41:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?

Others will know better than me but I recently was on it - winding bends, overtaking lanes (utter disaster), volume of traffic and tractors were the main observations. People forced to take needless risks.

I have every sympathy with those who those who say they are forced to sit and wait a long time before they can join the road. And we all have massive sympathy for the families impacted by the number of tragedies on this road.

I am less sympathetic to to the claim that people are "forced" to take "needless risks". In addition to the obvious contradiction in terms we have to use the road that's there, with all its frustrations, rather the road that we want to be there.

There is no doubt that this upgrade is long overdue. Along with the York Street junction in Belfast these issues desperately need addressing. Someone mentioned Casement Park. Most would agree that these 2 road projects are much higher priorities.

Swallow up half the city with a giant motorway interchange? I don't think so. That project has to be knocked on the head.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 05:31:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 05:16:15 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 03:41:52 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nanderson on April 27, 2023, 03:41:57 PM
Thankfully i've never had to drive on this road before. What is the issues with it? Bendy road? Loads of crossings?

Others will know better than me but I recently was on it - winding bends, overtaking lanes (utter disaster), volume of traffic and tractors were the main observations. People forced to take needless risks.

I have every sympathy with those who those who say they are forced to sit and wait a long time before they can join the road. And we all have massive sympathy for the families impacted by the number of tragedies on this road.

I am less sympathetic to to the claim that people are "forced" to take "needless risks". In addition to the obvious contradiction in terms we have to use the road that's there, with all its frustrations, rather the road that we want to be there.

There is no doubt that this upgrade is long overdue. Along with the York Street junction in Belfast these issues desperately need addressing. Someone mentioned Casement Park. Most would agree that these 2 road projects are much higher priorities.

Swallow up half the city with a giant motorway interchange? I don't think so. That project has to be knocked on the head.

A very strange response.

How much of the city do you actually think will be built on?

Then we can look at the constraints placed by the current junction.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2023, 05:33:25 PM
Nobody should die on the A5. The problem is the economic model used in the North. It doesn't work any more.
There are loads of other problems that need attention in the form of money.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2023, 05:33:25 PM
Nobody should die on the A5. The problem is the economic model used in the North. It doesn't work any more.
There are loads of other problems that need attention in the form of money.
we'll just post the solution and then we can on with implementing that
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 05:31:49 PM


A very strange response.

How much of the city do you actually think will be built on?

Then we can look at the constraints placed by the current junction.

Motorway junctions take up vast amounts of space that could be put to more financially sustainable use. They take up more room than you think, and it becomes clearer when you superimpose them on actual revenue-generating city blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln5oTdi8CNM

In the case of Belfast, the Sailortown area was all but obliterated by the motorway.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 28, 2023, 07:13:58 PM
Somebody mentioned needless risks, what's the defintion of such? Used to drive to Omagh for work from Magherafelt direction. Roughly 30mile from Ctown to Omagh, Over that distance there literally only 2 long stretches of the road to overtake say a slow moving lorry or 2 of such in a row, otherwise you may be driving 40odd mile an hr, the whole way to Omagh. Can get you frustrated trying to get to work.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 28, 2023, 10:04:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 28, 2023, 07:13:58 PM
Somebody mentioned needless risks, what's the defintion of such? Used to drive to Omagh for work from Magherafelt direction. Roughly 30mile from Ctown to Omagh, Over that distance there literally only 2 long stretches of the road to overtake say a slow moving lorry or 2 of such in a row, otherwise you may be driving 40odd mile an hr, the whole way to Omagh. Can get you frustrated trying to get to work.

That might be me you are quoting..I meant needless in the sense if a proper dual carriageway was in place it wouldn't place drivers in that predicament - as you described.

Any idea on the ages of the deceased?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 28, 2023, 10:09:34 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 28, 2023, 10:04:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 28, 2023, 07:13:58 PM
Somebody mentioned needless risks, what's the defintion of such? Used to drive to Omagh for work from Magherafelt direction. Roughly 30mile from Ctown to Omagh, Over that distance there literally only 2 long stretches of the road to overtake say a slow moving lorry or 2 of such in a row, otherwise you may be driving 40odd mile an hr, the whole way to Omagh. Can get you frustrated trying to get to work.

That might be me you are quoting..I meant needless in the sense if a proper dual carriageway was in place it wouldn't place drivers in that predicament - as you described.

Any idea on the ages of the deceased?
I've driven that road many times and I know exactly what you mean by that term and it sums up very well the exasperation experienced by many motorists who get stuck behind slow moving vehicles for long periods
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 28, 2023, 10:26:00 PM
At the risk of digressing jees i wouldnt want to sail to Omagh everyday for work via Cookstown. Near had a job lined up there years back, was down the road twice and was already struggling.

But anyway...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 28, 2023, 10:26:00 PM
At the risk of digressing jees i wouldnt want to sail to Omagh everyday for work via Cookstown. Near had a job lined up there years back, was down the road twice and was already struggling.

But anyway...

It used to be possible to make that journey by train.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: omagh_gael on April 28, 2023, 11:33:43 PM
Saw a stat on twitter earlier regarding this...since the a4 from Ballygawley to Dungannon has been opened 2 people have died. Over the same time frame 34 have now lost their lives on the (albeit longer stretch) a5.

Absolutely disgusting that this project has still been stalled due to underhand legal protests by the aa5a.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on April 29, 2023, 08:20:42 AM
Who is the group that are against the new road?

Is it a mixture of farmers and environmentalists?

That's the only 2 groups I can think of.  Obviously, I think there's definately unionists who don't want any progress, for obvious reasons.

It's hard to put a cost on a new road when compared to deaths.  One life lost is too many but it's clear that this road is the most dangerous in the north.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WT4E on April 29, 2023, 01:27:45 PM
The A5 is a serial killer. One that can be caught. Unbelievable really. I know if I lived in that area I would be scared for my children growing up using that road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: nrico2006 on April 29, 2023, 02:03:59 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 28, 2023, 11:33:43 PM
Saw a stat on twitter earlier regarding this...since the a4 from Ballygawley to Dungannon has been opened 2 people have died. Over the same time frame 34 have now lost their lives on the (albeit longer stretch) a5.

Absolutely disgusting that this project has still been stalled due to underhand legal protests by the aa5a.
Probably be better to compare the 2 deaths to the number of deaths in the same length of time before the new road was built.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 29, 2023, 03:01:12 PM
Well the frosses road on Antrim was a dangerous road to they sorted most of it out. I don't know how nobody's killed on the Ballymena line, they drive faster there than the M2. With multi small roads connecting to it and central crossings.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rudi on April 29, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
This road is an hour plus of misery. Poorly surfaced, few if any hard shoulders. Overtaking lanes no more than 3 quarters of a mile long, where everyone puts the boot down to get away from as much of the slow traffic as possible. Anyone trying to get onto this road from by roads God love them, its dangerous & busy.
Tractors, lads pulling heavy trailers doing 40mph max, with a trail of vehicles 2 miles long. Then there's Strabane, Sion Mills, Ormagh (nightmare) & Aughnacloy. Travelling on this road that's not fit for purpose anymore is a nightmare. I seen a cyclist on it today, brave man. A 3 lane road with hard shoulders is a minimum requirement for the traffic this road gets.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clawaddy on April 30, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
This road was a nightmare yesterday evening after the football in Omagh. Traffic crawled, bumper to bumper, at about 15-20 mph for most of the way to Ballygawley roundabout. To finish it off there was an almighty down pour which made it extremely dangerous. Throw in some heavy lorries, tractors towing trailers, tourists unfamiliar with the road and you have a recipe for disaster
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on April 30, 2023, 11:41:47 PM
Quote from: clawaddy on April 30, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
This road was a nightmare yesterday evening after the football in Omagh. Traffic crawled, bumper to bumper, at about 15-20 mph for most of the way to Ballygawley roundabout. To finish it off there was an almighty down pour which made it extremely dangerous. Throw in some heavy lorries, tractors towing trailers, tourists unfamiliar with the road and you have a recipe for disaster
Even before the game there was another accident not far from  Ballygawley roundabout.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 30, 2023, 11:58:00 PM
the road is not to blame, it's the drivers obviously  ::)

speed (mainly), impatience, bad decisions, phone use, etc all factors

self driving cars which actually adhere to the law cannot get here fast enough

to pass your driving test at 18 and have it for life is an absolute joke

of course everyone will say no to that because it's just too sensible  :(





Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 01, 2023, 12:15:37 AM
If road not to blame, why do we not get this accident rate anywhere else?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2023, 04:48:55 AM
Quote from: clawaddy on April 30, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
This road was a nightmare yesterday evening after the football in Omagh. Traffic crawled, bumper to bumper, at about 15-20 mph for most of the way to Ballygawley roundabout. To finish it off there was an almighty down pour which made it extremely dangerous. Throw in some heavy lorries, tractors towing trailers, tourists unfamiliar with the road and you have a recipe for disaster

Omagh used to be accessible by rail from all directions.

All this talk about "upgrading" roads to improve safety. Restoring the railways will make a far bigger impact on safety than highway capacity expansions.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2023, 04:52:41 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 30, 2023, 11:58:00 PM
the road is not to blame, it's the drivers obviously  ::)

speed (mainly), impatience, bad decisions, phone use, etc all factors

self driving cars which actually adhere to the law cannot get here fast enough

to pass your driving test at 18 and have it for life is an absolute joke

of course everyone will say no to that because it's just too sensible  :(

That's just wishing the problem away. Better road and street design can be there around the clock, traffic enforcement cannot.

And self-driving cars are not going to fix all of our problems. A road worker directing traffic with hand gestures is easily understandable to a human driver. A child running towards the road from a playground can be spotted by a human driver. A ball rolling onto the road, possibly followed by a child chasing it, is easily understandable to a human driver. Will AI ever figure these things out with the same precision? Maybe eventually, but not in the next ten years it won't. Some people have been predicting the brave new world of self-driving cars for the next ten years, and they're still at least ten years away.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on May 01, 2023, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2023, 04:52:41 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 30, 2023, 11:58:00 PM
the road is not to blame, it's the drivers obviously  ::)

speed (mainly), impatience, bad decisions, phone use, etc all factors

self driving cars which actually adhere to the law cannot get here fast enough

to pass your driving test at 18 and have it for life is an absolute joke

of course everyone will say no to that because it's just too sensible  :(

That's just wishing the problem away. Better road and street design can be there around the clock, traffic enforcement cannot.

And self-driving cars are not going to fix all of our problems. A road worker directing traffic with hand gestures is easily understandable to a human driver. A child running towards the road from a playground can be spotted by a human driver. A ball rolling onto the road, possibly followed by a child chasing it, is easily understandable to a human driver. Will AI ever figure these things out with the same precision? Maybe eventually, but not in the next ten years it won't. Some people have been predicting the brave new world of self-driving cars for the next ten years, and they're still at least ten years away.

That's one thing  the aul fella used to drum into us  when we got our test.  If a ball  comes across the road ,  a child like likely  be arriving  after it
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2023, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 01, 2023, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2023, 04:52:41 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 30, 2023, 11:58:00 PM
the road is not to blame, it's the drivers obviously  ::)

speed (mainly), impatience, bad decisions, phone use, etc all factors

self driving cars which actually adhere to the law cannot get here fast enough

to pass your driving test at 18 and have it for life is an absolute joke

of course everyone will say no to that because it's just too sensible  :(

That's just wishing the problem away. Better road and street design can be there around the clock, traffic enforcement cannot.

And self-driving cars are not going to fix all of our problems. A road worker directing traffic with hand gestures is easily understandable to a human driver. A child running towards the road from a playground can be spotted by a human driver. A ball rolling onto the road, possibly followed by a child chasing it, is easily understandable to a human driver. Will AI ever figure these things out with the same precision? Maybe eventually, but not in the next ten years it won't. Some people have been predicting the brave new world of self-driving cars for the next ten years, and they're still at least ten years away.

That's one thing  the aul fella used to drum into us  when we got our test.  If a ball  comes across the road ,  a child like likely  be arriving  after it
You must be related to Confucius
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on May 02, 2023, 07:42:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2023, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 01, 2023, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2023, 04:52:41 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 30, 2023, 11:58:00 PM
the road is not to blame, it's the drivers obviously  ::)

speed (mainly), impatience, bad decisions, phone use, etc all factors

self driving cars which actually adhere to the law cannot get here fast enough

to pass your driving test at 18 and have it for life is an absolute joke

of course everyone will say no to that because it's just too sensible  :(

That's just wishing the problem away. Better road and street design can be there around the clock, traffic enforcement cannot.

And self-driving cars are not going to fix all of our problems. A road worker directing traffic with hand gestures is easily understandable to a human driver. A child running towards the road from a playground can be spotted by a human driver. A ball rolling onto the road, possibly followed by a child chasing it, is easily understandable to a human driver. Will AI ever figure these things out with the same precision? Maybe eventually, but not in the next ten years it won't. Some people have been predicting the brave new world of self-driving cars for the next ten years, and they're still at least ten years away.

That's one thing  the aul fella used to drum into us  when we got our test.  If a ball  comes across the road ,  a child like likely  be arriving  after it
You must be related to Confucius

Aye,  great  uncle . By marriage   ;)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2023, 08:41:36 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 29, 2023, 03:01:12 PM
Well the frosses road on Antrim was a dangerous road to they sorted most of it out. I don't know how nobody's killed on the Ballymena line, they drive faster there than the M2. With multi small roads connecting to it and central crossings.

It's fast enough but I personally hate the A1 at night near those junctions especially when it's raining! ... better lighting, reduced speed limits at night and longer entry/exit points. Any main road should be two lanes
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on May 04, 2023, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 27, 2023, 12:42:56 PM
Surely to God they aren't blocking this road over some warped idea of a road to Dublin! Please tell me they ain't that bad.

Lest there be any doubt:
https://twitter.com/Niall_Gartland/status/1654150512650985472?t=bEtyYZtBs7dFg1yZM2cfYg&s=19 (https://twitter.com/Niall_Gartland/status/1654150512650985472?t=bEtyYZtBs7dFg1yZM2cfYg&s=19)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smelmoth on May 06, 2023, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2023, 05:31:49 PM


A very strange response.

How much of the city do you actually think will be built on?

Then we can look at the constraints placed by the current junction.

Motorway junctions take up vast amounts of space that could be put to more financially sustainable use. They take up more room than you think, and it becomes clearer when you superimpose them on actual revenue-generating city blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln5oTdi8CNM

In the case of Belfast, the Sailortown area was all but obliterated by the motorway.

Have you seen the plans for this one? How much space does it take up that isn't already taken up by the existing roads and junction?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 07, 2023, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2023, 06:13:38 PM
Motorway junctions take up vast amounts of space that could be put to more financially sustainable use. They take up more room than you think, and it becomes clearer when you superimpose them on actual revenue-generating city blocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln5oTdi8CNM

In the case of Belfast, the Sailortown area was all but obliterated by the motorway.

That is one of the biggest loads of rubbish ever posted on this forum.

Aside from the fundamental misunderstanding that a motorway junction can exist to leverage economic actors a significant distance from the junction itself, rather than a few more local offices/shops, a motorway is useless if you cannot get on and off it. 3 motorways meeting without seamless transfer are largely neutered in their local effectiveness. Pollution and commute times significantly impact economic productivity. (Unless you think hauliers like to pay their drivers to burn several gallons of fuel to move a few miles over the space of an hour, or business folk like to sit in traffic for an added hour rather than work in the office when looking to catch a flight?)

The space used for the York road junction is insignificant given the benefits it'd bring.

Here's a pdf map (http://www.yorkstreetinterchange.com/pdf/project-documents/draft-orders/ysi-urs-xx-xx-dr-or004-p4.pdf) of the proposal - as you can see, the footprint is only an incremental increase over what is already there.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eire90 on May 10, 2023, 06:35:08 PM
Another crash there today.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: smort on May 10, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience

Picked up on that too, outrageous that they are using that language!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Ty4Sam on May 11, 2023, 12:10:51 PM
Yet another accident today between Strabane and Derry!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2023, 06:02:10 PM
Was on the road from magherfelt through to Omagh today, plenty of land to open up those roads too, nothing in the plans to up grade that crap road?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: maggie on May 15, 2023, 10:13:40 PM
Inquiry reopened this morning. 16 years since the road was first approved. It actually beggars belief that much time has passed and how many more years will go by without one bit of tar being laid.

If you are in the area of the Strule Arts centre this week go and have a coffee there.

Just a pity no one from the group objecting was made to go.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on May 15, 2023, 10:34:56 PM
I would say there is a fair amount of OO members in the Alternative A5 Alliance
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 11:26:24 PM
Heard someone, who lost family member, on radio asking for people to attend it. More focus on it now as good push to get it moving.

Silent majority will come out and support it but it'll take time.

Do people/groups object again in this enquiry?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2023, 11:34:23 PM
They rolled the one through Dungiven, didn't matter who objected, it was happening. Only a 12mile stretch though. This one alot longwr, will have to be done In Stages. The blockers have heavy backing from somewhere
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2023, 08:45:35 AM
What is the deal with the objectors? Is a sectarian thing because some people deem the road "cross border"?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on May 16, 2023, 09:37:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2023, 08:45:35 AM
What is the deal with the objectors? Is a sectarian thing because some people deem the road "cross border"?

Lest there be any doubt:
https://twitter.com/Niall_Gartland/status/1654150512650985472?t=bEtyYZtBs7dFg1yZM2cfYg&s=19
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on May 16, 2023, 10:04:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2023, 08:45:35 AM
What is the deal with the objectors? Is a sectarian thing because some people deem the road "cross border"?

Yes. A Catholic Road in Protestant Land.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 10:04:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2023, 08:45:35 AM
What is the deal with the objectors? Is a sectarian thing because some people deem the road "cross border"?

Yes. A Catholic Road in Protestant Land.

Is that not a mixed area, although that shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Saffrongael on May 16, 2023, 12:11:18 PM
I'm guessing there are some contrary farmers in the mix too, regardless of religion
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on May 16, 2023, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: smort on May 10, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience

Picked up on that too, outrageous that they are using that language!
Conor Macauley using it again yesterday. Described it as a road linking the North west with Dublin.
It is also a road linking west Tyrone with Belfast but that is never mentioned.

From the same playbook as the downplaying of the name when it comes to reporting accidents. According to the BBC accidents happen on the Curr road or the Beltany road or the Doogary road, not the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2023, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 16, 2023, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: smort on May 10, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience

Picked up on that too, outrageous that they are using that language!
Conor Macauley using it again yesterday. Described it as a road linking the North west with Dublin.
It is also a road linking west Tyrone with Belfast but that is never mentioned.

From the same playbook as the downplaying of the name when it comes to reporting accidents. According to the BBC accidents happen on the Curr road or the Beltany road or the Doogary road, not the A5.


Whether it is a cross border road or not is immaterial. It is one of the main trunk roads in Ireland and should be built to a proper standard. And it should not be question of the Dublin government paying for it, although they will do their share. The British wanted Tyrone in their Empire against the wishes of the people of Tyrone and as a consequence they can pay for the roads.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on May 16, 2023, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 16, 2023, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: smort on May 10, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience

Picked up on that too, outrageous that they are using that language!
Conor Macauley using it again yesterday. Described it as a road linking the North west with Dublin.
It is also a road linking west Tyrone with Belfast but that is never mentioned.

From the same playbook as the downplaying of the name when it comes to reporting accidents. According to the BBC accidents happen on the Curr road or the Beltany road or the Doogary road, not the A5.
Conor MacAuley is an RTE correspondent, how else would you describe it to a primarily southern audience?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on May 16, 2023, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 16, 2023, 10:04:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2023, 08:45:35 AM
What is the deal with the objectors? Is a sectarian thing because some people deem the road "cross border"?

Yes. A Catholic Road in Protestant Land.

Is that not a mixed area, although that shouldn't matter.

The majority of the land would be owned by Protestant farmers.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Keyser soze on May 16, 2023, 03:38:08 PM
You can be certain no farmer of any hue will voluntarily give up land for vesting regardless of what use its for.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 16, 2023, 03:38:08 PM
You can be certain no farmer of any hue will voluntarily give up land for vesting regardless of what use its for.

If they have to, they have to.

Look at the new Derry to Dungiven road Castledawson to Randalstown road.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on May 16, 2023, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 16, 2023, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 16, 2023, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: smort on May 10, 2023, 10:32:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 10, 2023, 10:31:50 PM
BBCNI now referring to the proposed A5 as a cross border road....WTF. They are playing to their audience

Picked up on that too, outrageous that they are using that language!
Conor Macauley using it again yesterday. Described it as a road linking the North west with Dublin.
It is also a road linking west Tyrone with Belfast but that is never mentioned.

From the same playbook as the downplaying of the name when it comes to reporting accidents. According to the BBC accidents happen on the Curr road or the Beltany road or the Doogary road, not the A5.
Conor MacAuley is an RTE correspondent, how else would you describe it to a primarily southern audience?
That would explain it. Did he not used to work for BBC or maybe it was UTV.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 16, 2023, 04:03:17 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 16, 2023, 03:38:08 PM
You can be certain no farmer of any hue will voluntarily give up land for vesting regardless of what use its for.

If they have to, they have to.

Look at the new Derry to Dungiven road Castledawson to Randalstown road.

Compulsory purchase orders not a thing now?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: skeog on May 16, 2023, 08:12:01 PM
No its Bats you couldnt make it up.Its a joke.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
This isn't the only road in the world. France builds roads without being help up by opposition groups. So does the Netherklands. If they deserve money they get it.
Why is nobody in charge here ?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
This isn't the only road in the world. France builds roads without being help up by opposition groups. So does the Netherklands. If they deserve money they get it.
Why is nobody in charge here ?

I blame neoliberalism
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: StephenC on May 17, 2023, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
This isn't the only road in the world. France builds roads without being help up by opposition groups. So does the Netherklands. If they deserve money they get it.
Why is nobody in charge here ?

I blame neoliberalism

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
This isn't the only road in the world. France builds roads without being help up by opposition groups. So does the Netherklands. If they deserve money they get it.
Why is nobody in charge here ?

I blame neoliberalism
I think NI is close to  bankruptcy.  8)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 09:48:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: maggie on May 16, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?


It's been so long since i added attachments to a post I forget what you do to link the exact Twittter thread.

But the A5 group have been posting daily about what is happening.

Today the objections were the potential damage to moss. (??!!)

Imagine sitting through that having lost a loved one.
This isn't the only road in the world. France builds roads without being help up by opposition groups. So does the Netherklands. If they deserve money they get it.
Why is nobody in charge here ?

I blame neoliberalism
I think NI is close to  bankruptcy.  8)

Is it? Hay's travel NI will tell ya different lol
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 17, 2023, 10:02:43 AM
The UK got the biggest debt along with the US, building up over  years.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.
The current situation is in nobody's interest. Who is in charge ?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.
The current situation is in nobody's interest. Who is in charge ?

The Nazis or the Fascists .. I give up
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 11:39:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.
The current situation is in nobody's interest. Who is in charge ?

The Nazis or the Fascists .. I give up
Never underestimate the gobshites, the most cunning and most devious of all.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

We are well connected with both motorway and rail connections

Well done on showing up your Stephen Nolan levels of ignorance about the Republic.

Now back to getting your begging bowl out
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.

Its like slow learners day here.

Demanding money off the Irish Government for Casement which ye have made a balls of and now this..

The Republic of Ireland is a seperate country and is well within its rights to spend its tax take within its borders as it sees fit.

A Letterkenny to Tuam Motorway would be a much more significant strategic investment for the Irish taxpayer taking in the likes of Sligo and connecting up the whole of the West as has already been pointed out.

As regards the EU,Yes we made use of the funding as we were and are part of the EU,We have been a net contributor for some time now

Maybe Northern Ireland as one of the poorest regions in the whole of Western Europe can access Eu Funding to improve its existence

Oh wait ......
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 03:44:32 PM
Such aggression and name calling being shown

When people from the South explain that they want their taxes spent on their own country's infrastructure and in other areas which also badly need to be addressed.

The Reality is Ye are part of a different country whether ye like or not and ye need to get the funding from his Majesty's Government as ye don't have a parliament of your own at the minute.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:45:44 PM
Some gaels...
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 17, 2023, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out

Another west brit. 

The 26 county government has already said it will pay millions to upgrade this road.

Who needs the TUV when lads like you are about.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: skeog on May 17, 2023, 05:43:16 PM
If feeling down head in for a half an hour its a free comedy show only for how serious this issue is.The comedy is from the naysayers.3
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: JoG2 on May 17, 2023, 06:11:11 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.

Its like slow learners day here.

Demanding money off the Irish Government for Casement which ye have made a balls of and now this..

The Republic of Ireland is a seperate country and is well within its rights to spend its tax take within its borders as it sees fit.

A Letterkenny to Tuam Motorway would be a much more significant strategic investment for the Irish taxpayer taking in the likes of Sligo and connecting up the whole of the West as has already been pointed out.

As regards the EU,Yes we made use of the funding as we were and are part of the EU,We have been a net contributor for some time now

Maybe Northern Ireland as one of the poorest regions in the whole of Western Europe can access Eu Funding to improve its existence

Oh wait ......

;D Indeed Dougal
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2023, 06:12:09 PM
This one got a couple of decent bites anyway  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: StephenC on May 17, 2023, 08:33:45 PM
As someone from Letterkenny I can tell you that I want both a motorway to Dublin AND to Galway. But any Donegal person will tell you that the Dublin connection and the improvement of the A5 is the first priority.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 17, 2023, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 06:12:09 PM
This one got a couple of decent bites anyway  ;D ;D ;D ;D
It did indeed. I'm from Armagh and thankfully I don't use the road on a regular basis, however the A5 is a very raw nerve for many people, particularly those who live close to it and have either lost loved ones or live in fear of losing loved ones, therefore I don't think it's fair for anyone to use it for wind up purposes.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on May 17, 2023, 10:50:49 PM
True, but if you read my post you'd have noticed that I never mentioned the A5.  So not entirely sure of the relevance here.  ::)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 17, 2023, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 10:50:49 PM
True, but if you read my post you'd have noticed that I never mentioned the A5.  So not entirely sure of the relevance here.  ::)
My point had nothing to do with your comment let me assure you, rather it was directed at the poster who started the wind up which, as you pointed out, prompted some to take the bait. Sorry for any confusion there.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 17, 2023, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast



Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 03:44:32 PM
Such aggression and name calling being shown

When people from the South explain that they want their taxes spent on their own country's infrastructure and in other areas which also badly need to be addressed.

The Reality is Ye are part of a different country whether ye like or not and ye need to get the funding from his Majesty's Government as ye don't have a parliament of your own at the minute.
Coincidence I'm sure!! 😂
At least you managed to change user names I suppose.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2023, 06:05:22 AM
https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/articles/a5-western-transport-corridor-overview

Due to reduced funding availability at the time, the Northern Ireland Executive directed in February 2012 that the works be split into discrete sections and delivered in a phased approach.

It's called the A5 WTC

The issue is funding. So it should be the A5 WTF

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 17, 2023, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast



Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 03:44:32 PM
Such aggression and name calling being shown

When people from the South explain that they want their taxes spent on their own country's infrastructure and in other areas which also badly need to be addressed.

The Reality is Ye are part of a different country whether ye like or not and ye need to get the funding from his Majesty's Government as ye don't have a parliament of your own at the minute.
Coincidence I'm sure!! 😂
At least you managed to change user names I suppose.

Playing the man not the ball

Pathetic
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 18, 2023, 09:53:46 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 17, 2023, 11:39:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast



Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 03:44:32 PM
Such aggression and name calling being shown

When people from the South explain that they want their taxes spent on their own country's infrastructure and in other areas which also badly need to be addressed.

The Reality is Ye are part of a different country whether ye like or not and ye need to get the funding from his Majesty's Government as ye don't have a parliament of your own at the minute.
Coincidence I'm sure!! 😂
At least you managed to change user names I suppose.

Playing the man not the ball

Pathetic
One man, two posters tho!!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2023, 10:48:58 AM
Whatever about Tyrone and Derry needing this road and by god they need it, but Donegal possibly need it more.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2023, 10:48:58 AM
Whatever about Tyrone and Derry needing this road and by god they need it, but Donegal possibly need it more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l9m2X4bDrU
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2023, 02:41:53 PM
A5 delays seem to be highly correlated with Dublin winning the Leinster Football Championship since 2010.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: johnnycool on May 18, 2023, 03:20:46 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year

Dan Breen would be spinning in his grave with the partitionist nonsense coming from a Tipp man.  ;)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on May 18, 2023, 03:23:51 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year
lol.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2023, 03:20:46 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year

Dan Breen would be spinning in his grave with the partitionist nonsense coming from a Tipp man.  ;)

Partition must mean ye refuse British Exchequer money then ?

and ye could have badly done with a few men like Dan Breen and others up who drove the Brits out of Tipp,

something ye lot couldn't manage but then again that's everyone else's fault too.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2023, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2023, 03:20:46 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year

Dan Breen would be spinning in his grave with the partitionist nonsense coming from a Tipp man.  ;)

Partition must mean ye refuse British Exchequer money then ?

and ye could have badly done with a few men like Dan Breen and others up who drove the Brits out of Tipp,

something ye lot couldn't manage but then again that's everyone else's fault too.

Drove them out and turned his back on his comrades in the north. Good man
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 18, 2023, 09:10:35 PM
This might be more efficient than waiting for the road to be built..

https://www.headhuntersmuseum.com/our-history/
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Franko on May 18, 2023, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 18, 2023, 03:20:46 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 18, 2023, 01:55:21 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 03:39:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 17, 2023, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: general_lee on May 17, 2023, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 17, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 17, 2023, 11:15:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 17, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 17, 2023, 10:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2023, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
Is money holding this road up?

The UK is in the top 10 richest countries in the world. I can't mid if it 7th or 8th it changes I think regularly. Point is it is an extremely wealthy nation. No one was on about the cost of all the weapons they send to Ukraine. 4.6b in case you wondered https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-uk-weapons-b2339703.html)

NI nor the UK are broke. They just choose to withhold funding to attack the most vulnerable. Health, Education, Infrastructure. These cuts are by choice.
The UK is living on borrowed money , called the current account deficit.
NI could cut its corporate tax rate but needs £500m to back the projections and it doesn't have it. How much does the road cost ?

Sure the rich republic could pay for it as it's a cross border road.

Irish tax payers should be funding a motorway from Letterkenny to Tuam which would link with the existing M17 and join the M20 when it's completed to Cork

This would be one piece of infrastructure that would help act as a counter balance to the Eastern Seaboard

We don't need to be spending our budget surpluses in another jurisdiction

Indeed.  Dublin's surpluses shouldn't be spent on backwaters like Laois

State of Ya

Getting riled up because you want to spent Tax money from the Republic on this Road

How about spend your own money on your own roads or what the British decide to give ye and stop always having the hand out
I'm sure west Brits like you weren't complaining when the EU was pumping money into infrastructure projects over the last 30 years. In any case, the A5 is a strategic arterial route whether you've your partitionist tinted glasses on or not.
Wouldn't even engage with the likes of that. 14 posts and on a wind up. Probably Jamie Brysons mate

Ye lads are like the agressive beggar at the traffic lights with the squidgee.

No we dont want to pay for your road

We have more than enough things that we need to address in the Republic of Ireland

Somewhere in Tipperary, a village has decided to give it's idiot access to the internet. :-\

is that really the best of a rebuttal you can come up with?

its been most illuminating to see the Northern Irish mentality in full flow

When its explained to them why Taxpayers in the Republic would like to spend their tax in the Republic,all they can respond with is name calling

One would nearly feel sorry for the English taxpayer who have to try and prop the place up with over £10bn every year

Dan Breen would be spinning in his grave with the partitionist nonsense coming from a Tipp man.  ;)

Partition must mean ye refuse British Exchequer money then ?

and ye could have badly done with a few men like Dan Breen and others up who drove the Brits out of Tipp,

something ye lot couldn't manage but then again that's everyone else's fault too.

;D

It would seem that Breen must have left a few stragglers behind
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 11:09:59 AM
Dan Breen wasn't very impressed with the new State and leaving the 6 counties behind.
the Brits gave Arthur Griffith and co very vague assurances about a Boundary Commission and after the civil war everyone ignored it.
Tyrone could have won 5 all Irelands before 1953 instead of Cavan. But it stayed in the North.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2023, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 11:09:59 AM
Tyrone could have won 5 all Irelands before 1953 instead of Cavan. But it stayed in the North.

That's the first good thing I ever heard about partition.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: HiMucker on May 19, 2023, 10:04:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2023, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 11:09:59 AM
Tyrone could have won 5 all Irelands before 1953 instead of Cavan. But it stayed in the North.

That's the first good thing I ever heard about partition.
;D
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 20, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2023/05/20/why-is-a-stretch-of-road-linking-dublin-to-donegal-the-most-dangerous-imaginable/

Why is a stretch of road linking Dublin to Donegal the 'most dangerous imaginable'?
Campaigners say further delay in upgrading the notorious A5 "will only deliver more deaths, more heartbreak, more families and communities torn apart"


Keith Duggan
Sat May 20 2023 - 05:00

"The A5 in its current construct is a grim reaper, time its only constraint," said Plunkett Nugent, acting barrister for the Enough Is Enough campaign, in his opening remarks at this week's public inquiry into the ongoing planning saga of the A5 road that runs from Aughnacloy, Co Tyrone to Derry. The upgrade to dual carriageway status was approved in July 2007, with joint funding from Stormont and the Irish government. Since then, it has become mired in objections and court appeals. Nothing has changed except for the number of fatalities.

"Further delay," Nugent warned, "will only provide more opportunity for the most dangerous road imaginable to devastate other families and communities. It has not, does not, and will not discriminate."

It was a sombre note in what remains a hugely emotive issue for the communities whose lives are framed by the necessity of using a 58-mile stretch of road which has, since 2007, claimed 47 lives.

The A5 is a snaking ribbon of a road running through the heart of rural Tyrone. Its major starting junction, as you travel north, is the Ballygawley roundabout, which has become a sort of unofficial landmark for Errigal Ciaran country, probably the most famous of the Tyrone GAA clubs.

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The road's original construction, in the 1950s and 1960s, made it perfectly suited for the limited, meandering local and agricultural traffic of that time. Now, the same surface is required to act as the main artery connecting northwest Donegal with Dublin while also absorbing local traffic, heavy goods vehicles, tractors, and people whose homes are in the densely latticework of country lanes and entrances which filter off the main road.


"There are some bypasses built in the 1990s around Omagh and Strabane and Newtownstewart in the 2000s," says Wesley Johnston, who curates a website called Northern Ireland Roads Site. "But apart from that, it is single carriageway the entire distance. It attracts an enormous amount of traffic because it is one of the only north-south routes west of Lough Neagh.

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"I grew up in Omagh and in the 20 years since I left, it has become a heck of a lot busier. Overtaking lanes have been provided on a few stretches. But it is not like the ones you get south of the Border with a barrier. The design standards are such that regulations can't allow you to build those with lots of side roads. You would end up with people turning out into three lanes of traffic. Every hundred yards there are field entrances and entrances to houses. It really has a dense number of side roads. And it runs through an agricultural area with livestock rearing and a lot of small fields."

It has, in short, become a nightmare for motorists.

By curious coincidence, the Donegal Fine Gael TD Joe McHugh was travelling on the A5 when he took a phone call – hands free – from The Irish Times on Wednesday afternoon.

"I'm driving this road the best part of 30 years," he said. "And I am no different to Inishowen van drivers going up and down to plaster and build. To say it's drudgery is an understatement.

"Even now I am behind a lorry driving at 50km/h an hour. I have just come out of a queue in Omagh with two ambulances in traffic and the cars ahead couldn't see they were waiting to get through. You are dealing with a lot of frustration on the road, and you see people overtaking where they shouldn't. It is not an easy journey."

In October last year, John Rafferty (21), an exceptional Gaelic footballer from Killyclogher and a member of the Tyrone Under-20 team, lost his life on the A5 near Beragh following a collision between a car and a tractor. Niall McKenna, the Tyrone county treasurer, is from Killyclogher and won't forget the numbness in the community over the days of the funeral.

Learn more


John Rafferty in 2019. Photograph: Pacemaker/Belfast
Tyrone club enmity is fierce but all of that was set aside that weekend. As it happened, the regular county board meeting took place the following Tuesday. McKenna intended to thank the delegates from the various clubs for their support of the Rafferty family and friends. Looking out across the room, he saw another delegate, Damian Corrigan, whose son had died after an incident on the A5 the previous Christmas. A woman sitting to his left, he knew, had lost a family member two years previous. He had met the Tyrone Under-21 assistant manager in the building earlier that evening: his mother had been knocked down at the bottom of the road near her house.

"So, we were talking among ourselves and said: look, this road is out of control. It is quite literally killing our members. That is only a small gathering of people. So, we had a duty to protect our members. The Garvaghey centre [the Tyrone GAA training facility] is at a junction on one of the worst parts of the road."

That conversation led to the formation of the A5 Enough Is Enough campaign in the Tyrone GAA Centre. The launch took place on a Monday evening, January 23rd. The crowd exceeded the room capacity; the event was streamed into other rooms as harrowing stories were told by local people whose lives have been scarred. Kate Corrigan told of the night her son Nathan was killed in an incident just 100 yards from the family home. Peter Canavan, the former Tyrone All-Ireland medal winner, recalled a Friday in November in 1979 in Glencull.

The local primary school had two dinner ladies, "Big Annie" and "Wee Annie", both of whom were adored by the pupils. Shortly after leaving the school, walking either to the chapel or Canavan's post office, one of the women was struck by a car and trailer that left the road and was killed. The schoolchildren had to walk past the scene on their way home. It stayed with them. "The trauma for us, as children, was minor compared to what her family went through," Canavan said in a powerful address.

At a public meeting of the Enough campaign last week, a three-car collision caused several people to be late.

"The next day there was another bad incident between Omagh and Newtownstewart," says Niall McKenna.


"And the day after that another north of Omagh. They are not even newsworthy any more. But these accidents can leave people with life-changing injuries. We have also tried to get statistics on injuries and fatalities prior to 2007. And there is an impact on the first responder. I was talking with a retired fireman and every time he drives that road, he has horrific images of the things he encountered. We are very passive in life, and we can assume that the apparatus of civil life will deliver these things. But unfortunately, because of the destructive way of a lot of public life up here, this scheme has been continuously thwarted."

The announcement of a Dublin-Donegal motorway was one of the jewels in the crown of the 2006 St Andrew's Agreement; an ambitious cross-Border government venture with equal funding for the estimated £800 million dual-carriageway. The Northern Ireland Executive agreed to proceed with the plan in July 2007. In February 2009, the preferred route options were displayed to the public. In 2011, the first public inquiry was held. That November, the Irish Government, in a radically different economic climate now, withdrew its funding offer. By September 2012, the scheme was put on hold following legal challenges.


A Belfast Telegraph opinion piece from 2012, written by the late Henry McDonald, read the political nuances like this: "Where once it was a ballot box and an Armalite, Sinn Féin's dream of a united Ireland would not come about with a jackhammer in one hand and JCB control box on the other. Predictably, unionists got spooked over the implications of the project, which would be co-funded by the then Fianna-Fáil led government."

During those delays, a group of people formed the Alternative A5 Alliance (AA5A). An iteration of the scheme was given the go-ahead by Department for Regional Development minister Danny Kennedy in July 2012; it was halted following a legal challenge by AA5A. John Dunbar, the chairman of the AA5A at the time said: "Human rights are at stake here and the livelihoods of 400 farmers and landowners is at stake, so we've every right to try to defend what we think is an justifiable scheme."

In the decade since, the scheme has been bogged down in a dismaying cycle of legal objection and stalemate. The volume of traffic has become heavier. The AA5A group has, to its frustration, been portrayed as a shadowy group of landowners who refuse to engage and are indifferent to dangers of the road.

Although they have been legally advised not to give interviews during this latest public inquiry, a spokesperson told The Irish Times that they feel that such representation is mischievous. They make the point that they, too, are road users and as parents and grandparents share the same concerns as everybody about the A5. They are in full agreement that the road is not fit for purpose and have proposed what they see as a viable alternative – a series of upgrades.


They have a fundamental objection to the estimated cost of a dualling system, which now sits at £1.6 billion, a staggering figure for what they regard as a "monstrosity of a scheme". There is a belief that the road has become a political vanity project.

The group's statement, released ahead of the Inquiry, reads: "The Alternative A5 Alliance opposes this scheme and contends that it is overprovision and that there are more proportionate alternatives to the proposed new offline carriageway, and these should have been fully appraised and costed. As residents of County Tyrone, our supporters are acutely conscious of the road safety and regional economic issues involved. The improvement and upgrade of the existing A5 has long been needed and the Alternative A5 Alliance has consistently proposed how this might be done to secure road safety or other benefits in a proportionate and effective way."

Affordability is a problem. £1.6 billion? We don't have anything close to that. We are talking about not gritting the roads this winter because of the money we need to save

—  Wesley Johnston
A note for context states that almost all the AA5A supporters "live along the route of the A5 and use it on a daily basis".

Meanwhile, at the inquiry this week, people who had lost loved ones sat listening to exchanges which were highly technical in nature.

"For example, this morning the inquiry got a bit raucous because we are going into the minutiae of how to protect bats or red squirrels or badgers," said Niall McKenna, speaking during a lunch break on Tuesday.


Niall McKenna, chair of the A5 campaign group, Enough is Enough, at Strule Arts Centre, Omagh, where a public inquiry is examining the proposals for a new dual carriageway along the route of the A5. Photograph: Liam McBurney/PA Wire
"And you are looking around at members who have lost their son or daughter in the last year or two. There is no perspective. We are talking about the protection of human life on the most dangerous road in Ireland. And you hear talking about habitats and ecology. And that is not to diminish those issues. But there needs to be perspective."

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It's an apt word. The time span, for the relatively straightforward task of improving a road, has been mind-boggling. Equally, the sums of money involved are vast. The Irish Government has presently committed the revised sum of £75 million, a figure arrived at under the 2014 Stormont House Agreement and Implementation Plan. A spokesperson from the Department of Transport told The Irish Times this week that "in terms of how much the Irish government has spent on the A5 upgrade to date, £22 million was paid in three tranches over the period 2009 to 2012″, fulfilling the Government's funding commitment under the original expenditure profile. During Leaders' Questions in the Dáil last week, the Minister for Finance Michael McGrath, responding to questions from Sinn Féin Donegal TD Pearse Doherty, indicated a willingness towards flexibility on the A5 works.

"Once we have a project that has gone through all the statutory processes, we know the scope of the project, we know the likely cost of the project, the Irish government won't be found wanting. We will sit down and engage in the spirit of co-operation, recognising the strategic importance of this road," McGrath said.

But there is still no clarity on what happens next. Wesley Johnston describes the idea of the transformation of the A5 into a dual carriageway as a "gold-plated solution".

"Affordability is a problem. £1.6 billion [€1.8 billion]? We don't have anything close to that. We are talking about not gritting the roads this winter because of the money we need to save."

Delay will only deliver more deaths, more heartbreak, more families and communities torn apart

—  Plunkett Nugent
Although the AA5A group may not have excelled in its public relations to date, Johnston does feel its members have "an understandable grievance". But he can see difficulties, too, with their upgrade proposals as well. Some sort of compromise – a curated series of improvements involving partial dual-carriageway, roundabouts at dangerous junctions, improved street lighting, reduced speed limits and a bypass to rid the bottlenecks which habitually delay northwest-bound motorists at Omagh and Strabane – might alleviate the worst of it.

Joe McHugh is optimistic that the latest Public Inquiry will mark the beginning of a new phase of urgency.

"I don't think there is any justification for any slacking in terms of political pressure. And I don't buy into the idea that it will require Stormont to be up and going. This is such a significant project that if it requires a London intervention, so be it. I know that the commitment is there from [an Irish] Government point of view. And whatever money needs to be put on the table, it must be done. And it is not just the A5. There is a business case now being presented by Donegal County Council for the Lifford-Letterkenny section. There is no point in doing that later: as far I as I'm concerned it is part of the bigger plan."

Over 10,000 people have signed the Enough Is Enough petition and those behind the movement feel it is gathering momentum. At the January launch, Kevin Hughes, another former All-Ireland medal winner with Tyrone, gave an unbearably moving testimony about the accidents that ended the lives of two of his siblings. Hughes was a teenager when his older brother Paul was killed on the A4 road, which runs from Ballygawley to Dungannon, in August 1997. Kevin Hughes was in traffic on the same road when his brother's incident occurred, heading to football training: he took the back roads not realising why there was such a backup on the A5. In 2001, his sister Helen lost her life in an incident close to the same spot: a vehicle reversed from a side lane. Hughes was visibly emotional as he called for an end to the "silly politics" which has prevented work starting on the A5.

The A4 was for many years a notorious accident black spot also. It was approved for an upgrade dual carriageway status at the same time as the A5 and the work was carried out successfully. Since then, there has been a 97 per cent reduction in road fatalities.

This, for the Enough campaign, is irrefutable evidence of why work needs to begin on a scheme on the A5 Western Transport Corridor dual carriageway. The most recent tragedy occurred as recently as April 27th. Christine Duffy, her brother Dan McKane, and their aunt Julia McSorley, all from Strabane, died in an incident which occurred at around 7.20am.

"Delay," Plunkett Nugent told those attending the Inquiry, "will only deliver more deaths, more heartbreak, more families and communities torn apart."
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 30, 2023, 10:24:57 PM
I wonder do the people/groups who are against this new road weigh in in person with evidence to this enquiry?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WT4E on May 30, 2023, 10:38:27 PM
Am I right in saying that the AA5A is made up of vast majority Unionists?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on May 31, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.

When the A4 upgrade took place from Ballygawley to Dungannon it went full dual-carriageway. The accident/death rate on it previously was similar to that of the A5. Now there is rarely and accident and I think there has been one death in 15 odd years. (An elderly man went the wrong way down the carriageway in a tractor if I remember correctly).

Dual-carriageway is the only acceptable solution to ease traffic flow and reduce deaths.

Hopefully the Southern government can reconsider their contribution as they seen to be quite flush with surplus this year and forecast to be in the next 4-5 years. Spend a small percentage of it wisely joining the people of Donegal to the other 26 counties with a safe and fit for purpose road.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 09:35:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 31, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.

When the A4 upgrade took place from Ballygawley to Dungannon it went full dual-carriageway. The accident/death rate on it previously was similar to that of the A5. Now there is rarely and accident and I think there has been one death in 15 odd years. (An elderly man went the wrong way down the carriageway in a tractor if I remember correctly).

Dual-carriageway is the only acceptable solution to ease traffic flow and reduce deaths.

Hopefully the Southern government can reconsider their contribution as they seen to be quite flush with surplus this year and forecast to be in the next 4-5 years. Spend a small percentage of it wisely joining the people of Donegal to the other 26 counties with a safe and fit for purpose road.

The A1 from Sprucefield into Newry was also a death trap, there's been considerable improvements in getting it into a dual carriageway for the most part, but those right turns are still a disaster. I'm assuming even after upgrading the A5 it'll be the same.

Has to happen.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on May 31, 2023, 09:35:43 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 31, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.

When the A4 upgrade took place from Ballygawley to Dungannon it went full dual-carriageway. The accident/death rate on it previously was similar to that of the A5. Now there is rarely and accident and I think there has been one death in 15 odd years. (An elderly man went the wrong way down the carriageway in a tractor if I remember correctly).

Dual-carriageway is the only acceptable solution to ease traffic flow and reduce deaths.

Hopefully the Southern government can reconsider their contribution as they seen to be quite flush with surplus this year and forecast to be in the next 4-5 years. Spend a small percentage of it wisely joining the people of Donegal to the other 26 counties with a safe and fit for purpose road.

Nothing short of full dualing. I remember the old A4 road and even when they put in agricultural lanes and lights at junctions etc it was still a death road. The death you're referring to was a man standing on the drawbar of a cattle trailer and it was hit from behind by a lorry. We'll not stop every death but I think there has been a 97% reduction in accidents since the A4 was upgraded.
Costs shouldn't come into it. Donegal needs this road, Tyrone needs this road, Ireland needs this road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 09:45:26 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 09:35:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 31, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.

When the A4 upgrade took place from Ballygawley to Dungannon it went full dual-carriageway. The accident/death rate on it previously was similar to that of the A5. Now there is rarely and accident and I think there has been one death in 15 odd years. (An elderly man went the wrong way down the carriageway in a tractor if I remember correctly).

Dual-carriageway is the only acceptable solution to ease traffic flow and reduce deaths.

Hopefully the Southern government can reconsider their contribution as they seen to be quite flush with surplus this year and forecast to be in the next 4-5 years. Spend a small percentage of it wisely joining the people of Donegal to the other 26 counties with a safe and fit for purpose road.

The A1 from Sprucefield into Newry was also a death trap, there's been considerable improvements in getting it into a dual carriageway for the most part, but those right turns are still a disaster. I'm assuming even after upgrading the A5 it'll be the same.

Has to happen.

They need sorting, that road can be still dangerous!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on May 31, 2023, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 09:35:13 AM
Quote from: GJL on May 31, 2023, 09:04:36 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:42:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A5_road_(Northern_Ireland)
In 2007 the cost was estimated at £560 million. This estimate was revised upwards to £650–850 million in November 2008, £844 in August 2009 and then reached £1.049 billion in October 2016.[1] This will be both the longest and most expensive single road scheme ever undertaken in Northern Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland was meant to contribute €460 million of the cost. However, in May 2011 the Republic's Taoiseach Enda Kenny called for the project to "look at making savings".[5] And in November 2011 the Republic announced that it could not make its £400 million contribution to the project.[6]


Latest estimate is £1.6bn. When the Celtic Tiger was in full flow the Irish Government was flúirseach and a full dual carriageway was proposed.  But the A4 has a mix of dual and single carriageway with overtaking places. Surely the A5 could be built similar to the A4 and the complainants bought off.

When the A4 upgrade took place from Ballygawley to Dungannon it went full dual-carriageway. The accident/death rate on it previously was similar to that of the A5. Now there is rarely and accident and I think there has been one death in 15 odd years. (An elderly man went the wrong way down the carriageway in a tractor if I remember correctly).

Dual-carriageway is the only acceptable solution to ease traffic flow and reduce deaths.

Hopefully the Southern government can reconsider their contribution as they seen to be quite flush with surplus this year and forecast to be in the next 4-5 years. Spend a small percentage of it wisely joining the people of Donegal to the other 26 counties with a safe and fit for purpose road.

The A1 from Sprucefield into Newry was also a death trap, there's been considerable improvements in getting it into a dual carriageway for the most part, but those right turns are still a disaster. I'm assuming even after upgrading the A5 it'll be the same.

Has to happen.

Yes, the A5 would be even worse due to the number of houses and businesses that open directly onto the existing road. There are approximately 130 houses, businesses and side roads opening onto the A5 between Ballygawley and Omagh alone, a distance of 16 miles. It needs to be a new offline dual carriageway.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on May 31, 2023, 04:39:14 PM
I grew up in a village along the A5 (and was knocked down crossing it as a child).  There are houses there whose front doors are literally (and I mean it) three feet from the A5 carriageway. 
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: Rois on May 31, 2023, 04:39:14 PM
I grew up in a village along the A5 (and was knocked down crossing it as a child).  There are houses there whose front doors are literally (and I mean it) three feet from the A5 carriageway.

There are thousands of new roads that have been built where homes used to be. If not what state of road network would we have. It's crap, you lose a homestead but it's time these halions catch themselves on
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: imtommygunn on May 31, 2023, 08:06:28 PM
What came first... the houses or the road? That's madness.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on May 31, 2023, 08:36:53 PM
Stormont official says road should be completed by 2028, according to BBC.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2023, 08:06:28 PM
What came first... the houses or the road? That's madness.
The road was built in the 50s . Most of the houses would have come later.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on May 31, 2023, 09:59:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2023, 08:36:53 PM
Stormont official says road should be completed by 2028, according to BBC.

Frig sake , even  casement will be built  before it!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2023, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on May 31, 2023, 09:59:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 31, 2023, 08:36:53 PM
Stormont official says road should be completed by 2028, according to BBC.

Frig sake , even  casement will be built  before it!

Wouldn't hold my breath on that one!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2023, 10:14:40 AM
the A5 will be finished in time for the United Ireland
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2023, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2023, 10:14:40 AM
the A5 will be finished in time for the United Ireland

I wouldn't bet on that.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on June 01, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2023, 08:06:28 PM
What came first... the houses or the road? That's madness.
The road was built in the 50s . Most of the houses would have come later.
Not in our village - the road through it must have become the A5. I'm fairly sure there are pictures of the houses (or the houses that were replaced by upgrades) from the turn of the previous century.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2023, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: Rois on June 01, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2023, 08:06:28 PM
What came first... the houses or the road? That's madness.
The road was built in the 50s . Most of the houses would have come later.
Not in our village - the road through it must have become the A5. I'm fairly sure there are pictures of the houses (or the houses that were replaced by upgrades) from the turn of the previous century.
There is a certain order in villages but there is none in ribbon development fronting onto the road.
The Republic is drowning in Corporate tax and could afford £500m these days. It would be better to take the money before it disappears.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2023, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on June 01, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 08:43:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2023, 08:06:28 PM
What came first... the houses or the road? That's madness.
The road was built in the 50s . Most of the houses would have come later.
Not in our village - the road through it must have become the A5. I'm fairly sure there are pictures of the houses (or the houses that were replaced by upgrades) from the turn of the previous century.

So people have in the past been moved to have new roads! But now it would destroy their sun room!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on June 01, 2023, 09:32:28 PM
Well I imagine these people in my village aren't campaigning against the new A5 - the proposed new road is about 1km nearer the Foyle, away from their houses. For our stretch - north of Strabane towards Derry - the road is due to pass through sparsely populated agri land.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on June 01, 2023, 11:01:47 PM
A new dual carriageway would require the demolition of eight properties.

It is anticipated that Alternative One would result in 11 properties requiring demolition, whereas Alternative Two would require an estimated 15 properties to be demolished.

The 2 alternatives are bypassing Omagh and Strabane and some 2+1 overtaking lanes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65781549
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on June 02, 2023, 05:26:53 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-65781549


The inquiry was told that 14,000 vehicles use the road daily between Ballygawley and Omagh each day which is over capacity.

There are more than 1,370 side accesses along the existing A5, including private and field accesses.

The current 2+1 overtaking lanes also do not meet modern road standards.

Peter Edwards, a technical adviser to the A5 Western Transport Corridor project, said "the department's objectives would not be properly achieved" with the alternative schemes.

"We would still have a high risk of accidents, would still have a large volume of traffic. All these issues would still exist," he told the inquiry.

"There are some areas where the status quo would be maintained - Moylagh and Garvaghy and Ballymacilroy Hill - the measures that we would do there are limited.

"The potential accident blackspots remain."

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on June 10, 2023, 06:30:23 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/06/10/republic-to-fund-250-nursing-places-in-north-in-unprecedented-cross-border-move/In an interview with The Irish Times a fortnight ago, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar hinted the plan was afoot when he suggested funding could be made available for some projects in the North "because that might help the situation in Northern Ireland where there's a real budget squeeze".

Mr Varadkar cited the co-funding of the A5 road to Derry, adding: "That's the kind of conversation we're willing to have, as to how we can identify other projects."

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on July 23, 2023, 05:39:02 PM
Yet another fatality on the A5 on Friday. The absolute carnage goes on.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: An Watcher on July 23, 2023, 07:31:39 PM
Friday lunchtime by any chance?  Huge tailbacks coming into Omagh from Ballygawley.  There're no end to the fatalities
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on July 23, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
My god this has to end! Surely small incremental dualling (which eventually joins up) can be the first step. The worst sections to begin with. The Irish government boasting of huge surplus in cash surely can make steps as we can't rely on Tory Britain.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eire90 on July 23, 2023, 08:26:00 PM
nothing will change until a politician is involved in a crash
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2023, 08:27:02 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 23, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
My god this has to end! Surely small incremental dualling (which eventually joins up) can be the first step. The worst sections to begin with. The Irish government boasting of huge surplus in cash surely can make steps as we can't rely on Tory Britain.

The Irish government can chip in their bit, but they cannot ensure that the planning etc goes ahead.
Dublin is treading water on the N2 dualling, connecting the NW is not a priority to the likes of Eamon Ryan.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on July 24, 2023, 07:29:23 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 23, 2023, 08:26:00 PM
nothing will change until a politician is involved in a crash

This isn't being held up by politicians. Its being held up by greedy, sectarian landowners.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 24, 2023, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 23, 2023, 07:41:21 PM
My god this has to end! Surely small incremental dualling (which eventually joins up) can be the first step. The worst sections to begin with. The Irish government boasting of huge surplus in cash surely can make steps as we can't rely on Tory Britain.

The planned new road is off line rather than dualling the existing road. The current road has too many entrances and exits to upgrade.

They could however break the project down further than the 3(?) current segments.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on July 24, 2023, 01:21:52 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 24, 2023, 07:29:23 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 23, 2023, 08:26:00 PM
nothing will change until a politician is involved in a crash

This isn't being held up by politicians. Its being held up by greedy, sectarian landowners.

A microcosm of everything that is wrong with this shithole. Nothing ever gets done. Everything is green and orange. Absolute morons elected to high office coupled with incompetent wankstains in the civil service. A clusterfuck of shitness that we must live under.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 26, 2023, 07:51:51 PM
I see the All Ireland rail review has proposed a new Derry-Strabane-Omagh-Dungannon-Portadown line. Whilst it is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes, if the money was there to implement it now, what are the chances the same objectors would be against this as the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 26, 2023, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 26, 2023, 07:51:51 PM
I see the All Ireland rail review has proposed a new Derry-Strabane-Omagh-Dungannon-Portadown line. Whilst it is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes, if the money was there to implement it now, what are the chances the same objectors would be against this as the A5.

The people of Carrickmore might not object, but you could have the same objections between Omagh and Strabane. The railway ran on the West bank of the Foyle, as the new road should have done, and this might ease things too.
In any case, I do not see such a project ever occurring and if it does it will be long after NI has ceased to exist.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: restorepride on July 27, 2023, 12:38:24 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 24, 2023, 07:29:23 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 23, 2023, 08:26:00 PM
nothing will change until a politician is involved in a crash

This isn't being held up by politicians. Its being held up by greedy, sectarian landowners.
100% correct.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: naka on July 27, 2023, 08:21:31 AM
As a first stage can we not have a series of the average speed cameras on the road  and ban overtaking on some parts
seems there should be some easy changes to save lives
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on July 27, 2023, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: naka on July 27, 2023, 08:21:31 AM
As a first stage can we not have a series of the average speed cameras on the road  and ban overtaking on some parts
seems there should be some easy changes to save lives

Not sure if average speed cameras would combat the issue
I don't believe its road users speeding for the majority of their journey along the route - it's people taking risks, e.g overtaking slow moving vehicles, when its unsafe to do so or people joining the road when its not clear (speed possibly a factor there)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 09:03:14 AM
Speed cameras will bring the death rate down nearly straight away, yes people will always make a bad judgement at a junction, but I'd rather make a bad judgement at a junction, knowing the speed of the of the traffic will be 50 or 40 miles per hour rather than 60 plus.

The road needs doing though, probably only ever been on it once or twice, but it is a mess for that volume of traffic
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on July 27, 2023, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 09:03:14 AM
Speed cameras will bring the death rate down nearly straight away, yes people will always make a bad judgement at a junction, but I'd rather make a bad judgement at a junction, knowing the speed of the of the traffic will be 50 or 40 miles per hour rather than 60 plus.

The road needs doing though, probably only ever been on it once or twice, but it is a mess for that volume of traffic

Best option to get the new road build asap.

More lives will be lost on it unfortunately before it's completed.

During the enquiry, who were the people who objected? Was there a group or individuals?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on July 27, 2023, 09:10:41 AM
Another bad smash on it yesterday between Ballygawley and Omagh. Road was closed for a few hours with several ambulances in attendance. It was only a very short distance from where somebody died last week. There is no viable argument not to begin a new road project immediately.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 09:14:27 AM
Quote from: marty34 on July 27, 2023, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 09:03:14 AM
Speed cameras will bring the death rate down nearly straight away, yes people will always make a bad judgement at a junction, but I'd rather make a bad judgement at a junction, knowing the speed of the of the traffic will be 50 or 40 miles per hour rather than 60 plus.

The road needs doing though, probably only ever been on it once or twice, but it is a mess for that volume of traffic

Best option to get the new road build asap.

More lives will be lost on it unfortunately before it's completed.

During the enquiry, who were the people who objected? Was there a group or individuals?

I know it needs done, but christ start doing something now in the mean time to save some lives, rather than what some are doing (IMO) in using the rising deaths as a stick to beating those against it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: general_lee on July 27, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Speed cameras on what is essentially a primary transport corridor are not the answer. A fit for purpose road is the answer.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on July 27, 2023, 11:28:35 AM
The whole thing needs done; Aughnacloy to Derry, but that Omagh to Ballygawley bit should be first IMO.
IIRC, the initial objections that stopped the whole project were habitat/river catchment issues in the Strabane to Derry section? scandalous that that stopped the Omagh to Ballygawley section
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 27, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Speed cameras on what is essentially a primary transport corridor are not the answer. A fit for purpose road is the answer.

No one is disagreeing on that, unless you are a landower. But in the meantime slowing traffic down would certainly help
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armaghtothebone on July 27, 2023, 06:08:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 27, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Speed cameras on what is essentially a primary transport corridor are not the answer. A fit for purpose road is the answer.

No one is disagreeing on that, unless you are a landower. But in the meantime slowing traffic down would certainly help

Travel the A5 on a regular basis with work. Not sure speed is the issue. Set the cruise at 55 and you'll have to turn it off within seconds.
It's a dangerous road with hundreds of side roads and junctions. All speed cameras would do is raise a few quid.
The road needs a massive upgrade.
Compare the road from Omagh to Strabane with the road between Antrim and Ballymena.
Now almost dual carriageway from Belfast to Portrush!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on July 28, 2023, 09:36:46 AM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 27, 2023, 06:08:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 27, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Speed cameras on what is essentially a primary transport corridor are not the answer. A fit for purpose road is the answer.

No one is disagreeing on that, unless you are a landower. But in the meantime slowing traffic down would certainly help

Travel the A5 on a regular basis with work. Not sure speed is the issue. Set the cruise at 55 and you'll have to turn it off within seconds.
It's a dangerous road with hundreds of side roads and junctions. All speed cameras would do is raise a few quid.
The road needs a massive upgrade.
Compare the road from Omagh to Strabane with the road between Antrim and Ballymena.
Now almost dual carriageway from Belfast to Portrush!

Correct my wife travelled it for work as well for a bit. I used to pray everyday she'd get to Omagh and back home safe.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2023, 09:44:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2023, 09:36:46 AM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on July 27, 2023, 06:08:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: general_lee on July 27, 2023, 11:02:56 AM
Speed cameras on what is essentially a primary transport corridor are not the answer. A fit for purpose road is the answer.

No one is disagreeing on that, unless you are a landower. But in the meantime slowing traffic down would certainly help

Travel the A5 on a regular basis with work. Not sure speed is the issue. Set the cruise at 55 and you'll have to turn it off within seconds.
It's a dangerous road with hundreds of side roads and junctions. All speed cameras would do is raise a few quid.
The road needs a massive upgrade.
Compare the road from Omagh to Strabane with the road between Antrim and Ballymena.
Now almost dual carriageway from Belfast to Portrush!

Correct my wife travelled it for work as well for a bit. I used to pray everyday she'd get to Omagh and back home safe.

So essentially its people taking risks coming out of the junctions or overtaking when not safe to do so?

Btw I'm not great with sitting in traffic, and I'm well past the age of trying to get 2 or three minutes quicker to where I'm going, but sitting on 3 points and having recently, last year, done a speed awareness course, my second.

Though in my defence my speed was coming out of a 60 straight into a 30 at the brow of a hill or coming round a corner to be greeted by a lovely van !!

We need to leave earlier and not worry about being late and we will all arrive alive!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Saffrongael on July 28, 2023, 10:00:31 AM
Not trying to be insensitive or argue that the road does not need improving but is it not true that about 95% of Road deaths are caused by driver error, not paying attention, speeding, driving while impaired etc ?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TabClear on July 28, 2023, 10:37:58 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 28, 2023, 10:00:31 AM
Not trying to be insensitive or argue that the road does not need improving but is it not true that about 95% of Road deaths are caused by driver error, not paying attention, speeding, driving while impaired etc ?

It is true but there is no point saying that everyone will just sit at 40mph behind a tractor. Yes if everyone did deaths would reduce dramatically but its not going to happen. On that logic why do cars need seatbelts?

The A4 to Dungannon is a example of what happens when the road is upgraded. Journey times reduced and deaths reduced dramatically. Yes it costs money but it is the only realistic way of reducing deaths because driver behaviour is unlikely to change dramatically.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: GJL on July 28, 2023, 11:10:37 AM
Quote from: TabClear on July 28, 2023, 10:37:58 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 28, 2023, 10:00:31 AM
Not trying to be insensitive or argue that the road does not need improving but is it not true that about 95% of Road deaths are caused by driver error, not paying attention, speeding, driving while impaired etc ?

It is true but there is no point saying that everyone will just sit at 40mph behind a tractor. Yes if everyone did deaths would reduce dramatically but its not going to happen. On that logic why do cars need seatbelts?

The A4 to Dungannon is a example of what happens when the road is upgraded. Journey times reduced and deaths reduced dramatically. Yes it costs money but it is the only realistic way of reducing deaths because driver behaviour is unlikely to change dramatically.

This is the whole case in a nutshell. A road that is fit for purpose and can take the volume.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 28, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 28, 2023, 10:00:31 AM
Not trying to be insensitive or argue that the road does not need improving but is it not true that about 95% of Road deaths are caused by driver error, not paying attention, speeding, driving while impaired etc ?

If you are assigning blame solely to the drivers, and in many cases the drivers will have made errors, the question becomes why do so many errors occur on this road, relative to other roads!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2023, 01:13:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 28, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 28, 2023, 10:00:31 AM
Not trying to be insensitive or argue that the road does not need improving but is it not true that about 95% of Road deaths are caused by driver error, not paying attention, speeding, driving while impaired etc ?

If you are assigning blame solely to the drivers, and in many cases the drivers will have made errors, the question becomes why do so many errors occur on this road, relative to other roads!

Probably because they are taking a risk when overtaking slow large moving vehicles because they are impatient, how do we fix that?

No one and I haven't heard one on here say the road doesn't need to be upgraded, but dealing with the here and now rather than something completely out of the random road users ability to change needs looked at.

There will be accidents on roads every day, the road doesn't cause them, drivers do, someone miscalculates distance/timing/braking/overtaking/drinking/indicating
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: imtommygunn on July 28, 2023, 01:36:35 PM
Would side roads and houses nearby not be as big a problem as purely speed though? Kevin Hughes's sister was killed as someone reversed onto the road in front of someone else and that was the knock on effect from someone swerving? There's people with front doors near on the road. (from reading this I think someone mentioned that)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2023, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2023, 01:35:15 PM
Why do you think this particular road has more fatal crashes than others though?

Is it that it gets worse drivers than other roads?

Because it's single lane traffic with plenty side roads and junctions with farming and lorries using it ...

Again, the road needs up grading, I've not said once it's fine, and when it's done (if ever) it will dramatically reduce accidents.

But in the meantime, how can users be more safe on that road?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2023, 02:52:39 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2023, 01:54:07 PM
The same way they stay safe on other roads.

Do the other roads of similar type have that volume of traffic going through it?

94% of serious crashes are due to human error
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2023, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2023, 03:18:11 PM
As has been said, human error isn't going to go away by itself. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the potential for it. This road is notorious and I would guess that people would be aware of the dangers on it and therefore would take extra care on it. That doesn't stop the accidents.
I'm not sure what you think you are achieving with this victim blaming/muddying the waters but it is entirely futile. There is only one fix to this problem.

Not sure you've read my posts correctly, there is nowhere in my posts I've said the road is fine and doesn't require upgrading. Victim blaming is a bit of a stretch if I'm stating facts. There are people who don't want this built and holding it up for their own reasons, that happens across planning everywhere.

But in the meantime, what can be done before the road is started? Otherwise more casualties or fatalities will happen on this road
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rois on July 28, 2023, 08:26:32 PM
I get your point MR. On this road, the margin for fatal or serious error is so small compared with other roads. A lapse in concentration on another road, and you may have enough space or time to correct a swerve. On this road, you just can't as easily .
People don't drive on it any differently - but the volume, the side roads, the lack of passing lanes, no hard shoulder etc all make any last minute adjustments all the harder and more likely to result in an accident.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 28, 2023, 08:32:01 PM
"The 94 percent number comes from a 2015 NHTSA memo that surveyed crash reports from 2005 to 2007. It found that in 94 percent of cases a human action was "the last failure in the causal chain of events leading up to the crash" but that it is "not intended to be interpreted as the cause of the crash." This makes sense, as it is simply the way car crashes work. Humans are driving, so the last action before a crash is probably the human doing something. But that means absolutely nothing for what actually caused the crash.  To make such a determination, it would require a thorough investigation by qualified inspectors like NTSB or from a local police department. Very few crashes undergo such thorough investigations, making it easy and convenient to blame "human error" for everything, when other factors like road design, excessive speed limits, or weather conditions may have been more important."

Famous Statistic Blaming Car Crashes on Human Error Is Wrong (https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7n3ym/famous-statistic-blaming-car-crashes-on-human-error-is-wrong)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 06:41:37 PM
People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: imtommygunn on July 29, 2023, 06:52:23 PM
There's roads in Fermanagh like this too. I went to a wedding in the Manor House and someone died out the front of the hotel in the middle of the wedding reception. It is like you say - it's not like people become worse drivers on a road like this. The roads are more dangerous.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 29, 2023, 06:52:23 PM
There's roads in Fermanagh like this too. I went to a wedding in the Manor House and someone died out the front of the hotel in the middle of the wedding reception. It is like you say - it's not like people become worse drivers on a road like this. The roads are more dangerous.
That's a bad entrance alright. Unfortunately there are many where the approach is restricted so that someone travelling at the speed limit will still be dangerous. There's some junctions were you could be pulling out of and the road clear, but someone comes around the corner or over the hill at the wrong time and you've committed to pulling out. And they might not necessarily be speeding. That's the causes of most accidents on the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 29, 2023, 08:03:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 06:41:37 PM
People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2023, 08:03:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 06:41:37 PM
People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.
I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 12:08:55 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2023, 08:03:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 06:41:37 PM
People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.
I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.

So from these last few posts, people already know it's heavy traffic, loads of junctions, hidden dips, no overtaking lanes, and we all know it needs upgraded.

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 30, 2023, 01:57:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 12:08:55 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 11:06:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2023, 08:03:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 29, 2023, 06:41:37 PM
People don't just get more reckless when they get on to the A5. It's the fact it's a single lane road carrying hell of a lot of traffic. Plus the make up of the road means there are many hidden junctions, were view of the junction is restricted due to corners/ dips etc so that travelling at normal speeds can still be dangerous. But people aren't going to travel under the speed limit, that's unrealistic and doesn't happen.
It's the road. It's as simple as that and needs addressed or more lives are going to be lost.

On any road, if you cannot see then you have slow down a bit. The speed limit is an upper bound, the speed limit in the North is 60mph and you cannot go on most roads continually at that speed.
I know. I also know the real world were people will generally travel at the speed limit or close to it. The A5 in itself isn't the worst surface. So people will travel at what they believe is a safe speed. Some of the junctions on to it aren't easily seen. This is why you have black spots. Unfortunately the A5 has many.

So from these last few posts, people already know it's heavy traffic, loads of junctions, hidden dips, no overtaking lanes, and we all know it needs upgraded.

But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Reduce the speed limit.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2023, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 12:08:55 AM
But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Would a significant bulk of the accidents be people pulling out not seeing/realising there was oncoming traffic?

Could probably adopt those automated speed reader things you see in some towns/villages to flash a red beacon back down the road upon detecting oncoming traffic - so the person in the side road knows something is coming.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 30, 2023, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 30, 2023, 05:41:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 12:08:55 AM
But in the meantime, until it gets sorted (if ever) what should be done in the meantime to reduce the crashes? As it's not the drivers fault, is there something else that can be used?

Would a significant bulk of the accidents be people pulling out not seeing/realising there was oncoming traffic?

Could probably adopt those automated speed reader things you see in some towns/villages to flash a red beacon back down the road upon detecting oncoming traffic - so the person in the side road knows something is coming.

With over 1300 entrances / exits that is a lot of flashing beacons.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 10:11:48 AM
That's nearly 1300 reasons why some people don't want a new road as it'll affect their lives, temporarily, as once it's done everyone adapts and moves on.

When the Carrickfegus to Belfast road was done it inconvenienced plenty and houses demolished and no right or left turns for residents that had that opportunity originally. It's now a dual carriage way to motorway as is the Larne rd.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on July 30, 2023, 10:29:53 AM
And note that with the A8 to Larne they just got on with it, not the the A5.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on July 30, 2023, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2023, 10:11:48 AM
That's nearly 1300 reasons why some people don't want a new road as it'll affect their lives, temporarily, as once it's done everyone adapts and moves on.

When the Carrickfegus to Belfast road was done it inconvenienced plenty and houses demolished and no right or left turns for residents that had that opportunity originally. It's now a dual carriage way to motorway as is the Larne rd.
The new road would be off line, sometimes several miles from the current route. Building it will not inconvenience those living along the current route.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 30, 2023, 04:12:01 PM
Of course there will be inconveniences when building. That's not an excuse to do nothing. Try and minimise it and get on with it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 05, 2023, 10:43:23 AM
Talk of it starting next year. I assume bypasses/dangerous sections to begin with?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wolfetones on October 05, 2023, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 05, 2023, 10:43:23 AMTalk of it starting next year. I assume bypasses/dangerous sections to begin with?

No, the full Sion Mills to Derry section will start first.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 05, 2023, 10:43:23 AMTalk of it starting next year. I assume bypasses/dangerous sections to begin with?
The new road is off line, it does not follow the path of the existing road.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on October 05, 2023, 07:17:02 PM
Is there a map of the new road?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2023, 10:23:00 PM
Everything here https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/articles/a5-western-transport-corridor-overview

(https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/styles/inline-expandable-2/public/images/infrastructure/a5-wtc-route-plan.jpg)
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: An Watcher on October 05, 2023, 10:50:54 PM
Trying to work out how it bypasses Sion?  Along the river at strabane crossing the urney Rd at some point? Is it a new road between the glebe and sion then?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Wolfetones on October 06, 2023, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on October 05, 2023, 10:50:54 PMTrying to work out how it bypasses Sion?  Along the river at strabane crossing the urney Rd at some point? Is it a new road between the glebe and sion then?

https://www.a5wtc.com/Map

That's a pretty useful interactive map of the route.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: bogball88 on January 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AM
Where are we with this? awaiting an outcome from the Judicial Review?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on January 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AMWhere are we with this? awaiting an outcome from the Judicial Review?
It will be open in time for the Euros along with Casement park in never never land.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 18, 2024, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on January 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AMWhere are we with this? awaiting an outcome from the Judicial Review?
It will be open in time for the Euros along with Casement park in never never land.

The new Derry  to Portadown railway  line will be opened the same day.

But  the bridge to Scotland  won't be finished  until  the week after.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 18, 2024, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on January 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AMWhere are we with this? awaiting an outcome from the Judicial Review?
It will be open in time for the Euros along with Casement park in never never land.

The new Derry  to Portadown railway  line will be opened the same day.

But  the bridge to Scotland  won't be finished  until  the week after.
People in the North on social welfare who spend their holidays in the Med will have personal hovercrafts  paid by taxpayer funds anyway in a few years so it won't even be needed .
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on January 18, 2024, 01:12:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 12:01:22 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 18, 2024, 11:44:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on January 18, 2024, 12:37:45 AMWhere are we with this? awaiting an outcome from the Judicial Review?
It will be open in time for the Euros along with Casement park in never never land.

The new Derry  to Portadown railway  line will be opened the same day.

But  the bridge to Scotland  won't be finished  until  the week after.
People in the North on social welfare who spend their holidays in the Med will have personal hovercrafts  paid by taxpayer funds anyway in a few years so it won't even be needed .

Will people be able to get  these   Instead of a  DLA car?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 01:41:25 PM
Will the melting ice caps and global warming/climate change, hovercrafts might not be that far fetched
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 19, 2024, 11:22:38 AM
Irish govt to commit 400 million. Has the executive any idea of what is available? Surely theres data on the accident black spots - assume Ballygawley to Omagh stretch? Spend the money on those sections first!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2024, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 19, 2024, 11:22:38 AMIrish govt to commit 400 million. Has the executive any idea of what is available? Surely theres data on the accident black spots - assume Ballygawley to Omagh stretch? Spend the money on those sections first!

They will commit more than 400 million, that figure was proposed back in 2008, I expect that they will prorate it to current construction prices.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2024, 03:50:49 PM
It's important to get the ball rolling on this and get the money before something goes wrong
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 01:14:41 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0220/1433355-govt-announces-nearly-1b-for-cross-border-projects/

Ye're welcome!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on February 20, 2024, 01:24:02 PM
Great news for us in the west.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 04:01:06 PM
The Irish government  forming a united Ireland  by stealth as the   Brits  wipe their hands  of the north?

That's how it feels to me anyway , going by  the pantomime over the  last few years.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: tiempo on February 20, 2024, 04:13:36 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 04:01:06 PMThe Irish government  forming a united Ireland  by stealth as the   Brits  wipe their hands  of the north?

That's how it feels to me anyway , going by  the pantomime over the  last few years.

Very much so. The Brits are done with the subvention, why plough billions into 6co's when you can plough it to the political class/upper class.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2024, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 20, 2024, 01:14:41 PMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0220/1433355-govt-announces-nearly-1b-for-cross-border-projects/

Ye're welcome!
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0220/1433355-govt-announces-nearly-1b-for-cross-border-projects/

In a statement, DUP Leader Jeffrey Donaldson MP said the funding announcement "is a restoration of a promise it first made in June 2007 to the Northern Ireland Executive then led by Dr Paisley."

He said: "Following the financial crash, the Republic of Ireland's Government were unable to keep that funding commitment and whilst the A8 Belfast to Larne Road upgrade was completed, the A5 has been delayed due to legal, technical and financial considerations.

"Whilst the overall cost of this cross-border project has significantly increased over the years we welcome the decision taken by the Irish Government to restore their funding commitment.

"With a significant squeeze on capital budgets today's announcement will allow for a greater degree of certainty on the A5 build next steps.

However, he said it was not the Government's job or responsibility to provide money for public services and general Northern Ireland infrastructure.

He said: "Whilst we welcome support from the Irish Government for genuine cross-border projects that demonstrate mutual benefit to both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, it is not the job or the responsibility of the Republic's Government to provide financial support for the provision of public services and general Northern Ireland infrastructure.

"That is a matter for the UK Government and must be done so in accordance with our needs base as set out in evidence provided to the UK Government.

"We reiterate our position that whilst the Irish Government have made a commitment to provide an allocation of their resource to the construction of the Casement Park project, this does not deal with the substantive funding gap that exists as a result of the massive increase in costs over the period.

"It is right that the GAA receives its allocation from the Northern Ireland Executive as previously agreed and in line with the allocations to the three supporting bodies but we cannot see how significant additional UK taxpayer resources will be available at a time when other vital public services are in need of additional resource and capital allocations.

"It will be for the UK Government to clarify its position in the coming period."
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 05:56:13 PM
Wee Jeff seriously annoyed that this is happening. He's luke warm that it's happening, obviously can't refuse it but it's through gritted teeth.

I see some farmer on that A5 road annoyed that he's losing land. He was probably one of the lads who was holding it up. Sew it into him as some many unecessary deaths on that road recently because of these reviews etc. 

For unionists, it must be this on one day and on the same day, the Brits looking for the wee 6 to raise more money.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2024, 06:30:22 PM
Steve Aiken was just there on RTÉ radio. He was quite positive about events today, welcomed the A5 and told the Irish government to ensure that they actually built it, with the small proviso that Casement be built efficiently. If the Euros are to be involved then Casement has to be built as per the plan, their is no time or money for rearrangements, like the Dublin Children's Hospital.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 08:11:56 PM
Southern by-pass for Enniskillen given the green light by O'Dowd.  A good news day all-round today.

This should help the town centre in Enniskillen plus benefit the link up to Sligo.

All roads, if you pardon the pun, points to an All-Ireland agenda. Logistically getting ready for it.

Good to see.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 08:23:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 08:11:56 PMSouthern by-pass for Enniskillen given the green light by O'Dowd.  A good news day all-round today.

This should help the town centre in Enniskillen plus benefit the link up to Sligo.

All roads, if you pardon the pun, points to an All-Ireland agenda. Logistically getting ready for it.

Good to see.

I'd imagine Unionists  lately  feel like they are  being cast adrift from their mothership,  and slowly being  absorbed by osmosis into a United Ireland .

Albeit a mothership who has  screwed them over time and time again . Although , they'll still  be blindly loyal to a  land who  is clearly trying to get  rid of them.

Time for  the DUP to talk about  the bridge to Scotland again
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2024, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 08:23:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 08:11:56 PMSouthern by-pass for Enniskillen given the green light by O'Dowd.  A good news day all-round today.

This should help the town centre in Enniskillen plus benefit the link up to Sligo.

All roads, if you pardon the pun, points to an All-Ireland agenda. Logistically getting ready for it.

Good to see.

I'd imagine Unionists  lately  feel like they are  being cast adrift from their mothership,  and slowly being  absorbed by osmosis into a United Ireland .

Albeit a mothership who has  screwed them over time and time again . Although , they'll still  be blindly loyal to a  land who  is clearly trying to get  rid of them.

Time for  the DUP to talk about  the bridge to Scotland again
In 1920 the Prods held economic power and the Taigs were poor. More than a century later the tables are turned. Brexit has severely weakened the UK economy.Sterling trades like an emerging market economy. Well done the DUP. In 2009 I think the UK dug the Republic out with a loan and Brian Lenihan RIP the Minister for finance was greeted with monkey noises by London financiers on a conference call. Since then it has been all downhill for the UK. 

The Taigs have money now (fingers crossed for the future) . It must be a real headfuck for Sir Joff. 

Ní uasal ná íseal ach thuas seal agus thíos seal.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LC on February 20, 2024, 10:31:11 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68352412

They seem to be on a real spending spree today.

Unless I am mistaken the funding in this regard is split between 3 protestant schools, 3 catholic schools and 1 integrated.  That will stop any rows.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: square_ball on February 20, 2024, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 05:56:13 PMWee Jeff seriously annoyed that this is happening. He's luke warm that it's happening, obviously can't refuse it but it's through gritted teeth.

I see some farmer on that A5 road annoyed that he's losing land. He was probably one of the lads who was holding it up. Sew it into him as some many unecessary deaths on that road recently because of these reviews etc.

For unionists, it must be this on one day and on the same day, the Brits looking for the wee 6 to raise more money.

Yip he is Hamilton Hassard part of the Alternative A5 Alliance who have been against the upgrade from the word go.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 20, 2024, 10:54:48 PM
Quote from: square_ball on February 20, 2024, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 05:56:13 PMWee Jeff seriously annoyed that this is happening. He's luke warm that it's happening, obviously can't refuse it but it's through gritted teeth.

I see some farmer on that A5 road annoyed that he's losing land. He was probably one of the lads who was holding it up. Sew it into him as some many unecessary deaths on that road recently because of these reviews etc.

For unionists, it must be this on one day and on the same day, the Brits looking for the wee 6 to raise more money.

Yip he is Hamilton Hassard part of the Alternative A5 Alliance who have been against the upgrade from the word go.

That a**hole shouldn't be given one second of airtime. Countless young lives wasted cos a bigoted tr**p like him doesn't want to see a road connecting Derry n Dublin. Going on about high quality agricultural land. It's not County Meath you headbanger!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on February 21, 2024, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 20, 2024, 01:24:02 PMGreat news for us in the west.
I didn't know you were from Mayo, Trailer. Or are you a Rossie ? #Jaysus
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 21, 2024, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 20, 2024, 10:54:48 PM
Quote from: square_ball on February 20, 2024, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 05:56:13 PMWee Jeff seriously annoyed that this is happening. He's luke warm that it's happening, obviously can't refuse it but it's through gritted teeth.

I see some farmer on that A5 road annoyed that he's losing land. He was probably one of the lads who was holding it up. Sew it into him as some many unecessary deaths on that road recently because of these reviews etc.

For unionists, it must be this on one day and on the same day, the Brits looking for the wee 6 to raise more money.

Yip he is Hamilton Hassard part of the Alternative A5 Alliance who have been against the upgrade from the word go.

That a**hole shouldn't be given one second of airtime. Countless young lives wasted cos a bigoted tr**p like him doesn't want to see a road connecting Derry n Dublin. Going on about high quality agricultural land. It's not County Meath you headbanger!

I didn't see him, but I did see an interview with another Protestant farmer who could lose up to 50 acres(!). He was all for it and quite emotional as he knew someone killed on the road. "No blade of grass is worth more than someone's life"
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: LeoMc on February 21, 2024, 09:31:01 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 20, 2024, 08:23:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 08:11:56 PMSouthern by-pass for Enniskillen given the green light by O'Dowd.  A good news day all-round today.

This should help the town centre in Enniskillen plus benefit the link up to Sligo.

All roads, if you pardon the pun, points to an All-Ireland agenda. Logistically getting ready for it.

Good to see.

I'd imagine Unionists  lately  feel like they are  being cast adrift from their mothership,  and slowly being  absorbed by osmosis into a United Ireland .

Albeit a mothership who has  screwed them over time and time again . Although , they'll still  be blindly loyal to a  land who  is clearly trying to get  rid of them.

Time for  the DUP to talk about  the bridge to Scotland again

Heard an interview with the deputy leader of the TUV on GMU this morning. He was easier in the ear than Jim but spent his time bemoaning the neglect by GB.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on February 21, 2024, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 21, 2024, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on February 20, 2024, 10:54:48 PM
Quote from: square_ball on February 20, 2024, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 20, 2024, 05:56:13 PMWee Jeff seriously annoyed that this is happening. He's luke warm that it's happening, obviously can't refuse it but it's through gritted teeth.

I see some farmer on that A5 road annoyed that he's losing land. He was probably one of the lads who was holding it up. Sew it into him as some many unecessary deaths on that road recently because of these reviews etc.

For unionists, it must be this on one day and on the same day, the Brits looking for the wee 6 to raise more money.

Yip he is Hamilton Hassard part of the Alternative A5 Alliance who have been against the upgrade from the word go.

That a**hole shouldn't be given one second of airtime. Countless young lives wasted cos a bigoted tr**p like him doesn't want to see a road connecting Derry n Dublin. Going on about high quality agricultural land. It's not County Meath you headbanger!

I didn't see him, but I did see an interview with another Protestant farmer who could lose up to 50 acres(!). He was all for it and quite emotional as he knew someone killed on the road. "No blade of grass is worth more than someone's life"
Fair play to him. I'm sure they'll get a pretty penny for the ground?
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 07:18:37 AM
Another bad smash. O'Dowd needs to get the finger out and get the Omagh - Ballygawley stretch built asap
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2024, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 07:18:37 AMAnother bad smash. O'Dowd needs to get the finger out and get the Omagh - Ballygawley stretch built asap

A 30 year old man killed. Yet another life lost.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Snapchap on March 06, 2024, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 06, 2024, 10:50:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 07:18:37 AMAnother bad smash. O'Dowd needs to get the finger out and get the Omagh - Ballygawley stretch built asap

A 30 year old man killed. Yet another life lost.

Is it true that its the brother of current Tyrone player? God help the poor family. That road isn't fit for purpose. How many lives does it take?

Really think its a good idea to be speculating online about the identity of a crash victim before the victim has been named publicly? There are good reasons why it takes time for the names to be released in these circumstances.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Brendan on March 06, 2024, 11:05:44 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2024, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 06, 2024, 10:50:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 09:04:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 07:18:37 AMAnother bad smash. O'Dowd needs to get the finger out and get the Omagh - Ballygawley stretch built asap

A 30 year old man killed. Yet another life lost.

Is it true that its the brother of current Tyrone player? God help the poor family. That road isn't fit for purpose. How many lives does it take?

Really think its a good idea to be speculating online about the identity of a crash victim before the victim has been named publicly? There are good reasons why it takes time for the names to be released in these circumstances.

Coalisland have named him
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 12:49:51 PM
Irish News has made the link
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 07:18:37 AMAnother bad smash. O'Dowd needs to get the finger out and get the Omagh - Ballygawley stretch built asap
It has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?
IIRC some of the original objections came in the Omagh(Strabane?) to Derry section because of rivers linked to the foyle?

Omagh to Ballygawley is terrible
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 01:04:51 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/tyrone/brother-of-tyrone-gaa-player-killed-in-a5-crash/a261401218.html

A total of 49 people have now died on the A5 since a planned upgrade of the road was announced in 2007.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 01:41:37 PM
In these situations it never does harm to wait agreed
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
The problem was that the Irish government promised money and then got hit by the crash . The North doesn't have the budget for this project. Things then got held up in the courts. Then Stormont collapsed. You couldn't make it up. And people are still dying
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Hereiam on March 06, 2024, 02:48:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
The problem was that the Irish government promised money and then got hit by the crash . The North doesn't have the budget for this project. Things then got held up in the courts. Then Stormont collapsed. You couldn't make it up. And people are still dying

There has been a concentrated effort by one section of the community to make sure this road is never built.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 06, 2024, 02:48:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
The problem was that the Irish government promised money and then got hit by the crash . The North doesn't have the budget for this project. Things then got held up in the courts. Then Stormont collapsed. You couldn't make it up. And people are still dying

There has been a concentrated effort by one section of the community to make sure this road is never built.


Fenian road in Orange land. That's how they see it.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Armagh18 on March 06, 2024, 03:50:20 PM
Awful. There is blood on the hands of a lot of people for not having this built. RIP, another family hit by tragedy.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 05:08:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 06, 2024, 02:48:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
The problem was that the Irish government promised money and then got hit by the crash . The North doesn't have the budget for this project. Things then got held up in the courts. Then Stormont collapsed. You couldn't make it up. And people are still dying

There has been a concentrated effort by one section of the community to make sure this road is never built.


Fenian road in Orange land. That's how they see it.

I just find that completely mental. Surely compulsory purchase orders can be used in this scenario. This is what your land is worth. End of conversation!
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 06:51:04 PM
Not sure bbc needed to show the mans car being towed away....
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2024, 06:56:22 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 06, 2024, 05:08:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 06, 2024, 02:48:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 06, 2024, 02:19:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2024, 02:10:38 PM
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 06, 2024, 01:03:00 PMIt has probably been answered on here before – but what was the reasoning that it couldn't go ahead in 3 separate sections?

I doubt if it could be properly answered, there was never any need to do it all in one go. Roads all over the country were improved in sections.
The problem was that the Irish government promised money and then got hit by the crash . The North doesn't have the budget for this project. Things then got held up in the courts. Then Stormont collapsed. You couldn't make it up. And people are still dying

There has been a concentrated effort by one section of the community to make sure this road is never built.


Fenian road in Orange land. That's how they see it.

I just find that completely mental. Surely compulsory purchase orders can be used in this scenario. This is what your land is worth. End of conversation!

Well compulsory orders will be used. But the AA5A just cannot delay and bog it down in legal challenges ad infinitum.
Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: TwoUpTwoDown on March 06, 2024, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 01:41:37 PMIn these situations it never does harm to wait agreed

I hadn't meant to come across as insensitive. Our own family have been directly impacted by A5 and I apologise how it came across, I'll delete original post.

Title: Re: A5 WTC (New Road from Aughnacloy to Derry)
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 06, 2024, 11:08:00 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 06, 2024, 01:41:37 PMIn these situations it never does harm to wait agreed

I hadn't meant to come across as insensitive. Our own family have been directly impacted by A5 and I apologise how it came across, I'll delete original post.



Ah no need to apologize I meant in general when these things happen. Sorry for your loss