Who is the most bitter after Dubs do 5 in a row

[Farrandeelin]

But who wants to be talking about Mayo Kerry and Dublin all the time? It's boring. It doesn't work. The biggest inequity is the make up itself. And now the Turkeys will vote for Christmas with a second tier. Where's the plan to make all this more even? No plan. We're tossing over the embers of one of the most imbalanced sports there is. It's a flawed concept and you'll still be debating the same issues in twenty years time

You won't be talking about Mayo for much longer.

[seafoid]

It's not a given, no.  Just my opinion, informed by what I've heard from other Dublin people.  I've never heard anyone say they'd be interested in a split team, and I've heard plenty disavow any interest in county football if a split were to happen.  By way of comparison, people on here from outside Dublin have from time to time voiced similar lack of interest in county amalgamations as a way of curtailing Dublin dominance.

On the North/South thing, yes, you're right of course, there is a natural rivalry built in there.  But someone stuck up hypothetical line-outs for Dublin North and Dublin South here a year or two ago.  Both teams looked very strong, on paper at least.  And given the current squad--and those knocking on the door--there'd be a real possibility of North/South Dubin AI finals.   Which seems like something those with a  "Split Dublin" perspective would want to avoid.  So what do you do then?  Split Dublin into smaller units?  Well, then you lose the inbuilt rivalry of North/South.  I, for one, can't image ever caring particularly much about the fortunes of a Fingal team. I'd be far more in favor of other counties being targeted for development and funding rather than trying to take Dublin down a level. 

Considering doing any of this assumes that Dublin's current domination is a problem to be solved.  But Kerry won 7 in 9 years, and Kilkenny looked like they'd never stop winning in the hurling, but both of those eventually came to an end.  Yes, population and home advantage weren't factors there, but while we were living through those years, it was sometimes hard to see the dominance ending. Until it did.  What happens when Gavin retires? When Cluxton calls it a day?  Dublin's bench looked less intimidating this year than in previous ones.  Mick Fitz, Cooper and Philly Mc are all getting up there age wise. Kerry are on the way back up.  Maybe these are the early cracks appearing.

It looks like what has been done in Dublin is irreversible. If this is the case it won't matter what ordinary Dub fans want.
Dublin will be split into smaller units.
Nobody asked fans from other counties about funding Dublin

[seafoid]

I think people get swept up in the general hand-wringing and forget how tight most of Dublin's critical games in this five-in-a-row actually were. Here's a reminder:

2015: Dublin blew a seven-point lead in the semi-final against Mayo – shades of 06 – and clung on by their fingernails, almost literally, McCaffrey diving to block the killer blow from Sweeney. In the replay, they were four points down with a quarter of the game to go before dominating and winning convincingly. They won a tense final by three points.

2016: Dublin were five points down at half-time in the semi-final against Kerry, two down with nine minutes to go, and level in injury time, before winning by two. In the final, they were outplayed by Mayo for much of it but two own goals helped them scrape a draw. In the replay, Cillian O'Connor missed a free to send the game to extra-time.

2017: Mayo had a free in the 71st minute to go ahead. They missed. Dublin got a free in the sixth minute of injury time. They didn't miss.

2019: Kerry led by a point at the end of normal time and David Moran just had to play a routine pass to Tommy Walsh, who was completely unmarked, for what would surely have been the decisive score. He took a play instead, lost possession, and Dublin drew and won the replay convincingly.

I'd argue that 2018 was the only year this decade when Dublin were comfortably better than everyone. I grew up watching the Dublin team of the early 90s and if they'd been as calm in the decisive moments (eg scoring penalties, scoring routine frees, picking the right pass in injury time) they'd have won three or four All-Irelands. Put it another way, this five-in-a-row was far harder earned than Kerry's would have been if Kerry had held their nerve in 82.

I don't see what money has to do with those decisive moments where Dublin did the right thing and their opponents didn't. I think the more extreme people who shout "financial doping" aren't able to take the pain of watching a county they dislike clean up titles. I get that, I'm a Kildare fan, I don't like seeing Dublin win, but you have to take a deep breath, have some class, and offer your congratulations. I routinely do this with Dublin friends and family. It's painful, but Jesus lads, it's football, there's more important things – none of are getting out of here alive, as Colin Regan says.

That's not to say we should bury our head about financial inequities in how the GAA is run but that to me is a separate conversation. The GAA could easily fix some of the other small inequities - picking dressing rooms, playing Dublin songs in the build-up to games, etc. 

But as far as the football goes, it comes down to this: if Mayo and Kerry had been as composed under pressure as Dublin, and Dublin had been as panicky as they used to be, it would have been business as usual this decade in terms of not many teams putting All-Irelands back to back.

Very successful teams have a psychological edge over opponents and win matches other teams would lose. Fergie time . 
Hurling is an interesting contrast to football now. There is a very healthy level of competition which makes 5 in a row impossible.
In the last 5 years there were 4 different champions. 

[TheGreatest]

This is my favorite thread of them all. Such enjoyment.

[seafoid]

It's pure shite , it's nothing to do with the GAA we grew up on . They are a semi pro team in a competition with amateur teams , sin e. The celebrations were rubbish , it's all manufactured rubbish and that's even crept into the supporter . It's all very disappointing but I do not for one minute have any bad thing to say about the actual players , fantastic sportsmen , very dedicated .

Question for the dubs who think it's all well and good , at what point does dominance by one team become a problem in an amateur sport, if ye won 7 out of the next nine , have we a problem , or will this just be another special group of  talented young men ?

This is not a question that Dubs can or have to answer. No more than Crossmaglen had to answer in the Armagh Championship for years!

There will be a further decline in attendances next summer. Even Dublin fans will wait until the later stages before they have an interest. Will be interesting to see if the Dubs have a go at the League again next year after taking this years League campaign off?

As Seafroid said, the intercounty game is broke. The GAA have gone head first down a long road and it's a long road back. If there is a road back.

It's appalling

To destroy something that worked since 1887
That brought so much pleasure to so many people. That meant so much to them.

I remember seeing "Failte go Toraigh, Sam Maguire" painted on a pier on the island in 1993.
Mairtin Beag said he never had to pay for dinner in New York after they won.
The pictures on the wall in Sheridans in Milltown.
Driving through counties and seeing the names of clubs of players who won. Mayobridge, Burren and Carryduff
Crossmaglen, Mullaghbawn and Harps.
   

[Kurtz]

But who wants to be talking about Mayo Kerry and Dublin all the time? It's boring. It doesn't work. The biggest inequity is the make up itself. And now the Turkeys will vote for Christmas with a second tier. Where's the plan to make all this more even? No plan. We're tossing over the embers of one of the most imbalanced sports there is. It's a flawed concept and you'll still be debating the same issues in twenty years time

You won't be talking about Mayo for much longer.

Only way to even it up, is to have equal funding, and allow people to play anywhere
of course they could all head to Dublin 

[The Hill is Blue]

It's not a given, no.  Just my opinion, informed by what I've heard from other Dublin people.  I've never heard anyone say they'd be interested in a split team, and I've heard plenty disavow any interest in county football if a split were to happen.  By way of comparison, people on here from outside Dublin have from time to time voiced similar lack of interest in county amalgamations as a way of curtailing Dublin dominance.

On the North/South thing, yes, you're right of course, there is a natural rivalry built in there.  But someone stuck up hypothetical line-outs for Dublin North and Dublin South here a year or two ago.  Both teams looked very strong, on paper at least.  And given the current squad--and those knocking on the door--there'd be a real possibility of North/South Dubin AI finals.   Which seems like something those with a  "Split Dublin" perspective would want to avoid.  So what do you do then?  Split Dublin into smaller units?  Well, then you lose the inbuilt rivalry of North/South.  I, for one, can't image ever caring particularly much about the fortunes of a Fingal team. I'd be far more in favor of other counties being targeted for development and funding rather than trying to take Dublin down a level. 

Considering doing any of this assumes that Dublin's current domination is a problem to be solved.  But Kerry won 7 in 9 years, and Kilkenny looked like they'd never stop winning in the hurling, but both of those eventually came to an end.  Yes, population and home advantage weren't factors there, but while we were living through those years, it was sometimes hard to see the dominance ending. Until it did.  What happens when Gavin retires? When Cluxton calls it a day?  Dublin's bench looked less intimidating this year than in previous ones.  Mick Fitz, Cooper and Philly Mc are all getting up there age wise. Kerry are on the way back up.  Maybe these are the early cracks appearing.

It looks like what has been done in Dublin is irreversible. If this is the case it won't matter what ordinary Dub fans want.
Dublin will be split into smaller units.
Nobody asked fans from other counties about funding Dublin

I don't see that happening at all.

If Dublin were to be split than the county system would cease to exist and other models would have to be designed, such as county amalgamation creating a smaller number of stronger units.

[Rossfan]

The County (a Norman/English invention) started off as an administrative unit in the organisational hierarchy. Probably copied from the Land League/Orange Order etc.
Originally Provincial and All Ireland Championships were contested by the County Champions. Bray won an AI representing Dublin one year.
Later the Champions were allowed to pick some other players from around the County and eventually that evolved into all County selections around 1920?
We are so wedded to the County system and team would split Dublin teams or amalgamatioms of small Counties get any support?
I see bucks in places like Elphin and Keshcarrigan walking about with "Connacht" rugby jackets, caps, shirts etc. Places where no one ever saw a rugby ball in their lives.

[Lar Naparka]

It's not a given, no.  Just my opinion, informed by what I've heard from other Dublin people.  I've never heard anyone say they'd be interested in a split team, and I've heard plenty disavow any interest in county football if a split were to happen.  By way of comparison, people on here from outside Dublin have from time to time voiced similar lack of interest in county amalgamations as a way of curtailing Dublin dominance.

On the North/South thing, yes, you're right of course, there is a natural rivalry built in there.  But someone stuck up hypothetical line-outs for Dublin North and Dublin South here a year or two ago.  Both teams looked very strong, on paper at least.  And given the current squad--and those knocking on the door--there'd be a real possibility of North/South Dubin AI finals.   Which seems like something those with a  "Split Dublin" perspective would want to avoid.  So what do you do then?  Split Dublin into smaller units?  Well, then you lose the inbuilt rivalry of North/South.  I, for one, can't image ever caring particularly much about the fortunes of a Fingal team. I'd be far more in favor of other counties being targeted for development and funding rather than trying to take Dublin down a level. 

Considering doing any of this assumes that Dublin's current domination is a problem to be solved.  But Kerry won 7 in 9 years, and Kilkenny looked like they'd never stop winning in the hurling, but both of those eventually came to an end.  Yes, population and home advantage weren't factors there, but while we were living through those years, it was sometimes hard to see the dominance ending. Until it did.  What happens when Gavin retires? When Cluxton calls it a day?  Dublin's bench looked less intimidating this year than in previous ones.  Mick Fitz, Cooper and Philly Mc are all getting up there age wise. Kerry are on the way back up.  Maybe these are the early cracks appearing.

It looks like what has been done in Dublin is irreversible. If this is the case it won't matter what ordinary Dub fans want.
Dublin will be split into smaller units.
Nobody asked fans from other counties about funding Dublin

I don't see that happening at all.

If Dublin were to be split than the county system would cease to exist and other models would have to be designed, such as county amalgamation creating a smaller number of stronger units.

Unfortunately, HIB, change is inevitable. Dunno when or what the end result will be but change is coming down the line fast.
I took this graphic from one of Seafóid's more cerebral posts and I think it's self-explanatory. You don't have to be pro-Dub, anti-Dub or have a foot in both camps to see that the present system is unsustainable.

[seafoid]

It's not a given, no.  Just my opinion, informed by what I've heard from other Dublin people.  I've never heard anyone say they'd be interested in a split team, and I've heard plenty disavow any interest in county football if a split were to happen.  By way of comparison, people on here from outside Dublin have from time to time voiced similar lack of interest in county amalgamations as a way of curtailing Dublin dominance.

On the North/South thing, yes, you're right of course, there is a natural rivalry built in there.  But someone stuck up hypothetical line-outs for Dublin North and Dublin South here a year or two ago.  Both teams looked very strong, on paper at least.  And given the current squad--and those knocking on the door--there'd be a real possibility of North/South Dubin AI finals.   Which seems like something those with a  "Split Dublin" perspective would want to avoid.  So what do you do then?  Split Dublin into smaller units?  Well, then you lose the inbuilt rivalry of North/South.  I, for one, can't image ever caring particularly much about the fortunes of a Fingal team. I'd be far more in favor of other counties being targeted for development and funding rather than trying to take Dublin down a level. 

Considering doing any of this assumes that Dublin's current domination is a problem to be solved.  But Kerry won 7 in 9 years, and Kilkenny looked like they'd never stop winning in the hurling, but both of those eventually came to an end.  Yes, population and home advantage weren't factors there, but while we were living through those years, it was sometimes hard to see the dominance ending. Until it did.  What happens when Gavin retires? When Cluxton calls it a day?  Dublin's bench looked less intimidating this year than in previous ones.  Mick Fitz, Cooper and Philly Mc are all getting up there age wise. Kerry are on the way back up.  Maybe these are the early cracks appearing.

It looks like what has been done in Dublin is irreversible. If this is the case it won't matter what ordinary Dub fans want.
Dublin will be split into smaller units.
Nobody asked fans from other counties about funding Dublin

I don't see that happening at all.

If Dublin were to be split than the county system would cease to exist and other models would have to be designed, such as county amalgamation creating a smaller number of stronger units.

Unfortunately, HIB, change is inevitable. Dunno when or what the end result will be but change is coming down the line fast.
I took this graphic from one of Seafóid's more cerebral posts and I think it's self-explanatory. You don't have to be pro-Dub, anti-Dub or have a foot in both camps to see that the present system is unsustainable.

That slide is shocking

So is the table on Page 5 here
https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/OPEA173.pdf

Per Capita GDP in RoI South and East (Munster and Leinster)  in 2014 was twice that in the rest of the island.
Most of that difference is due to Dublin. 

Dubs get EUR 1.2 m but clubs have to fund half
Much easier when people are paid 2x
And rural clubs are trying to run Lottos

[Farrandeelin]

This is my favorite thread of them all. Such enjoyment.

If Mayo won 5 in a row I'd be enjoying it too.

[clarshack]

Supporters were kept interested this year to see if the Drive for 5 could be stopped. Now that it wasn't, don't be surprised to see attendances plummet in 2020.

[magpie seanie]

I think people get swept up in the general hand-wringing and forget how tight most of Dublin's critical games in this five-in-a-row actually were. Here's a reminder:

2015: Dublin blew a seven-point lead in the semi-final against Mayo – shades of 06 – and clung on by their fingernails, almost literally, McCaffrey diving to block the killer blow from Sweeney. In the replay, they were four points down with a quarter of the game to go before dominating and winning convincingly. They won a tense final by three points.

2016: Dublin were five points down at half-time in the semi-final against Kerry, two down with nine minutes to go, and level in injury time, before winning by two. In the final, they were outplayed by Mayo for much of it but two own goals helped them scrape a draw. In the replay, Cillian O'Connor missed a free to send the game to extra-time.

2017: Mayo had a free in the 71st minute to go ahead. They missed. Dublin got a free in the sixth minute of injury time. They didn't miss.

2019: Kerry led by a point at the end of normal time and David Moran just had to play a routine pass to Tommy Walsh, who was completely unmarked, for what would surely have been the decisive score. He took a play instead, lost possession, and Dublin drew and won the replay convincingly.

I'd argue that 2018 was the only year this decade when Dublin were comfortably better than everyone. I grew up watching the Dublin team of the early 90s and if they'd been as calm in the decisive moments (eg scoring penalties, scoring routine frees, picking the right pass in injury time) they'd have won three or four All-Irelands. Put it another way, this five-in-a-row was far harder earned than Kerry's would have been if Kerry had held their nerve in 82.

I don't see what money has to do with those decisive moments where Dublin did the right thing and their opponents didn't. I think the more extreme people who shout "financial doping" aren't able to take the pain of watching a county they dislike clean up titles. I get that, I'm a Kildare fan, I don't like seeing Dublin win, but you have to take a deep breath, have some class, and offer your congratulations. I routinely do this with Dublin friends and family. It's painful, but Jesus lads, it's football, there's more important things – none of are getting out of here alive, as Colin Regan says.

That's not to say we should bury our head about financial inequities in how the GAA is run but that to me is a separate conversation. The GAA could easily fix some of the other small inequities - picking dressing rooms, playing Dublin songs in the build-up to games, etc. 

But as far as the football goes, it comes down to this: if Mayo and Kerry had been as composed under pressure as Dublin, and Dublin had been as panicky as they used to be, it would have been business as usual this decade in terms of not many teams putting All-Irelands back to back.

Very successful teams have a psychological edge over opponents and win matches other teams would lose. Fergie time . 
Hurling is an interesting contrast to football now. There is a very healthy level of competition which makes 5 in a row impossible.
In the last 5 years there were 4 different champions.

It's impossible currently because Kilkenny have come back to the pack, that's all. They very nearly did it not so long ago. People wanted them to be forced to play football then becasue it was an unfair advantage!!!! Mad stuff. And if you're genuinely concerned about financial doping why no outcry over Limerick?

You're on the wrong track on this one. Tyrone, Galway and Mayo have more often that not got in their own way and messed up against Dublin in recent years. Kerry did to an extent in both the draw and the replay with missed chances and mistakes. I cannot see Cluxton being replaced completely - he's the best keeper ever and an auxilliary full back rolled into one. If Gavin goes I cannot see a replacement as good as him being found. They'll have to blood new young players next season and who knows how that'll go. We had a brilliant football championship this year and I can't wait for 2020.

[Rossfan]

You looking for a job in Croke Park or with Sky??

[TheGreatest]

Cork Ladies football.

Since 2005 -
-11 All ireland final appearances.
Achieving a 5 in a row and then a 6 in row.

Now thats an achievement.