Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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Angelo

#5595
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 10:43:33 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 09:22:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

I, and most people, probably actually think he's a better candidate than O'Neill.  I'm not sure why she's in as deputy leader or what it's called.  O'Dowd a good speaker and comes across as likeable.

Only thing I can think of is maybe female representation but if so, they've taken it to the extreme.

Strange indeed whatever is behind it.  Pearse Doherty is a great candidate - doing great work on the banks and more recently, insurance.  He should be leader in my opinion.

Doherty and Ó Muilleoir are very impressive individuals. I don't know why they're not more prominent.
Meeting Ó Muilleoir was probably one of my all time disappointments. I really thought he was a step up on the rest. Turns out he is very arrogant and has a handshake like a limp fish

Ronnie

Quote from: trailer on November 20, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2019, 08:20:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 20, 2019, 07:43:22 PM
My impression of SF is that they're run along military lines. You follow orders from the top and don't question them, which is why a leadership contest in SF looks so strange and infrequent.

I often find their supporters to be fairly thin-skinned; they take criticism of the party very personally.

Am I alone in this and completely off the mark?

Look what happened to John O'D!

The election for vice chairperson was straight out of the communist Russia playbook. No debate or hustings and no voting results. John O'Dowd will no doubt be ostracised as a result.

Or maybe he'll do the honourable thing and say to Doug Beattie 'you take my votes.  This is a unionist seat that I can't win:  (SF take their fair share of abuse)
General election 2017: Upper Bann[6][7]
Party   Candidate   Votes   %   ±
DUP   David Simpson   22,317   43.5   +10.9
Sinn Féin   John O'Dowd   14,325   27.9   +3.4
UUP   Doug Beattie   7,900   15.4   -12.5
SDLP   Declan McAlinden   4,397   8.6   -0.4
Alliance   Tara Doyle   2,319   4.5   +0.8
Majority   7,992   15.6   +11.9
Turnout   51,257   63.9   +4.9
Registered electors   80,168      
DUP hold   Swing   +3.73   

trailer

Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

trailer

https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/11/18/and-what-of-sinn-feins-invisible-internal-democracy/

This is a problem for a political party in any society, and not least for Sinn Fein, which underlines in its Statement of Principles "We propose absolute accountability and transparency in government".

uimhr ocht

I think its Sinn Feins decision alone that they can decide if they want disclose the result of leadership challenge or not,the media like to stir things alot especially when their is an election campaign ongoing which is most likely why they havent disclosed the result.

haranguerer

Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown

t_mac

Has Mickey Brady ever spoke on TV, even done the View or any decent political programme?  Suspect you could run a anyone in Newry and Armagh for Shinners and they would get in - depressing stuff.

trailer

Quote from: uimhr ocht on November 21, 2019, 09:46:33 AM
I think its Sinn Feins decision alone that they can decide if they want disclose the result of leadership challenge or not,the media like to stir things alot especially when their is an election campaign ongoing which is most likely why they havent disclosed the result.

I disagree. If they were a business then fine but they are a political party who's members are in public jobs in receipt of tax payers money and they potentially pass laws which affects everyone. I think its everyone business. The least we can expect is that they uphold some democratic principles.

Snapchap

Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

Owenmoresider

Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PMI have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.
Unfiltered hatred my arse, but whatever about having a hatred of SF, but of northern nationalism? Where the f**k did you pull that one out of?

As for the rest of that nonsense, curiously enough we are entitled to express about anything we like here, and few if any here grumble when those in the North opine on matters in the Republic, more so since I can't recall making much or any comment about the troubles here at any stage. And I'd be fairly sympathetic towards the republican campaign compared to most, I do come from what is often classed as a "border county", Enniskillen is closer to me than Dublin or Galway, and I'd have visited it more often growing up. I just don't like SF as a party, and too many of its party reps and its supporters online and offline make it easy to feel that way. SF is not northern nationalism much as some of its more devoted fans will try to portray it as such. And they arethe third largest party in ROI so they're not entirely an irrelevance as you suggest, though they seem rather unwilling to partake in government when the opportunity presents itself.

Tubberman

Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

That sounds awful like partitionism to me! Are you sure you're not a stoop or a unionist? Anyone from "down south" who speaks like that seems to be automatically given one of those labels...
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

trailer

Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

I don't really have time to refute all those claims just now, but this Vote Colm get Mike is one I want to come back on.
Of course it is Vote Colm, get Mike. IT'S MANDATORY COALITION! Who do you think you'd get? Angela Merkel? It was an plea to the middle ground. Like it or not Stormont was a power sharing executive. SF shared power with IAN PAISLEY!! And as Eastwood and Nesbitt both pointed out at the time - Vote Michelle or Arlene and you'll get Theresa May! So this just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.

Owenmoresider

Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on November 21, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 21, 2019, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 20, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

I don't really have time to refute all those claims just now, but this Vote Colm get Mike is one I want to come back on.
Of course it is Vote Colm, get Mike. IT'S MANDATORY COALITION! Who do you think you'd get? Angela Merkel? It was an plea to the middle ground. Like it or not Stormont was a power sharing executive. SF shared power with IAN PAISLEY!! And as Eastwood and Nesbitt both pointed out at the time - Vote Michelle or Arlene and you'll get Theresa May! So this just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.
It might have been a catchy slogan if not a well advised one, but at that time after almost a decade of DUP/SF dominating Stormont and marginalising their rival parties with the help of the powersharing setup, the SDLP and UUP decided to try something different and offer an alternative to them, as they were perfectly entitled to do. This was incidentally after a relatively poor series of elections for SF in terms of their votes dropping. Then by the end of the year they moved to bring the Executive down.

Walter Cronc

It isn't SDLP that SF will have to worry about in the years to come. A lot of moderate nationalists will vote Alliance. In truth they hold the key to a United Ireland, not SF or the DUP.