Doping - don't trust anybody

[yellowcard]

Ah Usain Bolt that great outlier 9/10 fastest athletes ever all have doped. Yet the fastest of them all hasn't, just as well his country has never produced doped athletes and has such an extensive anti-doping program.

No matter how talented you are a moderatly ability wise athlete who dopes will beat you. Those Russian athletes are considerably talented
athletes who would all avail of marginal gains via years of sports science research some of the best in the world and now also part of a doping program yet still couldn't beat clean athletes!!!! Now anyone who believes that is pretty naive imho.

That sounds like it is taken direct from Digger Forum who thinks that absolutely every single successful athlete is souped up. . He is saying now that Rob Heffernan and Sonia O'Sullivan must be on the juice because they beat Russians who were .

Digger is aggressive in his accusations against dopers, thats his style. I would bet though that he is a lot closer to the truth than a complicit media, many journalists and several sporting authorities.

Why would it be so outlandish to simply question the performances of O'Sullivan and Heffernan for instance? Is it just because they are Irish. Whilst I don't think he outright accused them of doping, Heffernan's coach has served a doping ban so I think it is only right that questions be asked. Sometimes a lot more can be gained by looking at the reaction of individuals to being questioned about doping and how outspoken about it they are. You have to read between the lines and make your own mind up sometimes.

He goes way past being aggressive . He throws out loads of accusations and a lot of the time he will delete tweets if he is challenged. He may have a point but it can be lost in the constant accusations and conspiracies. Nobody is saying that Irish athletes should be except from any scrutiny or criticism but i would expect at least a little shred of evidence apart from the fact they beat people who were juiced up. And he most definitely did outright accuse them of doping. I followed him for a while and at the start he seemed quite interesting but after while realised you might as well be following Jim Corr.

Just for the day that's in it then, 20 years ago today this happened. A few select Irish journalists were castigated and scorned upon for even questioning one of our own. It was a blatant transformation similar to what we are currently witnessing with Christopher Froome. Yet the same mistakes are made again and again as the authorities, media, coaches and athletes treat an unsuspecting public like fools to make their fame and fortune.

http://buzz.ie/long-read-the-story-that-rocked-irish-sport-to-the-core-michelle-smith-in-atlanta-revisited/

[bennydorano]

Time for your yearly gripe about Froome? You should have built up a good portfolio of evidence by now, that must 3 years in a row (during the Tour) that you bring it up?? Bilharzia, holding a moto going up a Giro stage, Geert Leinders - that's most of your annual contribution summarised anyway.

You /The Stallion should do a joint presentation.

[yellowcard]

Time for your yearly gripe about Froome? You should have built up a good portfolio of evidence by now, that must 3 years in a row (during the Tour) that you bring it up?? Bilharzia, holding a moto going up a Giro stage, Geert Leinders - that's most of your annual contribution summarised anyway.

You /The Stallion should do a joint presentation.

Give it a rest man. I'm long past the point of even trying to convince those who want to believe, it's a pointless exercise. If you get great satisfaction watching sky and Froome making a mockery of the sport then I don't want to start pi***ng on your parade, just best to ignore. However I'm sorry I don't believe in miracles.

[Minder]

Time for your yearly gripe about Froome? You should have built up a good portfolio of evidence by now, that must 3 years in a row (during the Tour) that you bring it up?? Bilharzia, holding a moto going up a Giro stage, Geert Leinders - that's most of your annual contribution summarised anyway.

You /The Stallion should do a joint presentation.

Did you believe in Armstrong when he started winning tours benny?

[bennydorano]

Once the inconvenient issue of evidence is brought up, it all goes quiet.  It's very easy and very lazy to shout cheat and then not be able to back it up - and glib innuendo filled tweets don't count as evidence.

[bennydorano]

Time for your yearly gripe about Froome? You should have built up a good portfolio of evidence by now, that must 3 years in a row (during the Tour) that you bring it up?? Bilharzia, holding a moto going up a Giro stage, Geert Leinders - that's most of your annual contribution summarised anyway.

You /The Stallion should do a joint presentation.

Did you believe in Armstrong when he started winning tours benny?

I came to cycling late (6/7 years ago) without the knowledge and baggage of suspecting everyone was doping so yes.

[Asal Mor]

Just for the day that's in it then, 20 years ago today this happened. A few select Irish journalists were castigated and scorned upon for even questioning one of our own. It was a blatant transformation similar to what we are currently witnessing with Christopher Froome. Yet the same mistakes are made again and again as the authorities, media, coaches and athletes treat an unsuspecting public like fools to make their fame and fortune.

http://buzz.ie/long-read-the-story-that-rocked-irish-sport-to-the-core-michelle-smith-in-atlanta-revisited/

David Walsh seems to believe the Chris Froome story, having spent time with Team Sky. He also says that there was a believable form line there from early in Froome's career.

http://www.newstalk.com/david-walsh-on-inside-team-sky

[Milltown Row2]

Did Walsh believe Kelly and Roche were clean??

[mikehunt]

http://buzz.ie/long-read-the-story-that-rocked-irish-sport-to-the-core-michelle-smith-in-atlanta-revisited/

That article confirms one thing for me, what a tool Eamon Coughlan is. I thougjt Jimmy McGee was the only one who claimed she was clean.

[Declan]

http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/Off_The_Ball_Highlights/149905/Tour_de_France_2016__New_Tour_Same_Questions

Here's Ross Tucker on OTB last night

[maddog]

Did Walsh believe Kelly and Roche were clean??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kelly-Biography-Sean-David-Walsh/dp/1903088534

Dont recall it being overly addressed in the book

[bennydorano]

I have that book, it says 2012 on Amazon but that must be the reprint date, checked the inside cover and it was written in 1986. It's been a few years since I read it but Kelly was technically caught doping, nothing huge and he appealed a few times to get it overturned, if it happened today probably something a TUE would have covered  IIRC correctly Walsh most definitely gives him the benefit of the doubt and was sympathetic. A different era in 1986.

[Declan]

http://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/fixed-matthew-syed-dismissal-whistleblower-fears/

Interesting post from Ross Tucker

[muppet]

I have that book, it says 2012 on Amazon but that must be the reprint date, checked the inside cover and it was written in 1986. It's been a few years since I read it but Kelly was technically caught doping, nothing huge and he appealed a few times to get it overturned, if it happened today probably something a TUE would have covered  IIRC correctly Walsh most definitely gives him the benefit of the doubt and was sympathetic. A different era in 1986.

1988 and Ben Johnson was the watershed.

Up to that anyone caught for anything was merely an accident of flu medicine, ginseng etc, etc.

After Johnson everything changed so it is hard to compare the reaction to Kelly 1984-1986 and Roche TDF 1987. Delgado won the TDF in 1988 testing positive for a substance that was about to be banned, but technically wasn't. No one was too bothered then.

[Milltown Row2]

I have that book, it says 2012 on Amazon but that must be the reprint date, checked the inside cover and it was written in 1986. It's been a few years since I read it but Kelly was technically caught doping, nothing huge and he appealed a few times to get it overturned, if it happened today probably something a TUE would have covered  IIRC correctly Walsh most definitely gives him the benefit of the doubt and was sympathetic. A different era in 1986.

1988 and Ben Johnson was the watershed.

Up to that anyone caught for anything was merely an accident of flu medicine, ginseng etc, etc.

After Johnson everything changed so it is hard to compare the reaction to Kelly 1984-1986 and Roche TDF 1987. Delgado won the TDF in 1988 testing positive for a substance that was about to be banned, but technically wasn't. No one was too bothered then.

The point is Walsh didn't really pursue any of this to any great degree... Everyone else was ripped apart