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The only other Down/Offaly snippet I can offer is about the 1981 game. It must hold the record for the longest wait for the first score during any senior match in the All Ireland series. Both sides were fairly inexperienced at that level, and the nerves got to them in a big way. My recollection is that more than 15 minutes had been played with no score when Down were awarded a penalty. Ambrose was brought down in the box, although he probably should still have scored anyway, and Brendy McGovern had to take the kick. He hit it well enough, but Martin Furlong made a fine save. Offaly got the first point a couple of minutes later, from a Matt Connor free I think, when almost 20 minutes must have gone. The score steadied Offaly,and they settled into the game and won pretty easily in the end.

What might be of more pressing concern for Saturday in the referee. It is our old friend Aidan Mangan, the guy who practically single-handedly cost us an Ulster title in 2003. Down fans will not need to be reminded that he wrongly sent off Gregory McCartan before half time, when Brian McGuigan should have been red-carded instead. We had to play the entire second  half on the hottest day of the year with 14 men, and he still managed to give Tyrone a dodgy penalty and frees every time Canavan got the ball. It was a draw which felt like a defeat, and, with Gregory still suspended, we were duly hammered in the replay. Mangan is unlikely to get a friendly reception from the Down support in Tullamore.

DownFanatic, any more word on McComiskey ?

The McComiskey injury, assuming it is confirmed, would be a hammer blow on the scale of Doyle's loss. The big hope was that McComiskey would deliver as a scoring forward in partnership with Benny this summer. Unfortunately, the rest of our forwards have managed embarrassingly poor returns in the three championship games so far. We might just get out of Tullamore, but it is very difficult to see us going much further in the qualifiers without McComiskey. He is also a fine free-taker, as is Doyle, so our options there have become limited as well. There is a good case for bringing back Walsh on the bench at least. His form has been patchy at best over the last couple of seasons,and he could not complaint about being dropped, but, on a good day, he can take a couple of scores and set up a few more. He is also decent with frees, and would have a lot of prove, so we would have little to lose by a recall.

Umpire, for the record, Phelim Lenaghan made his debut for Down in our NFL win over Kerry in Tralee on October 22, 1989. He definitely played at full back, and had the task of marking Maurice Fitzgerald. He was also named at full back for our next league game, which we lost at home to Dublin, but then seems to have faded out of the picture. This may have had something to do with his work commitments, as I seem to remember a plane ending up in the sea off Co Meath, fortunately without injury, when he was at the controls. However, I think we can all agree with your basic point that the extended Lenaghan familiy, including its most prominent member, all have red and black blood.

My recollection is that Phelim Lenaghan was a full back when he played some NFL games for Down in the mid-1980s. He was a decent player, but probably too small for the position, so he would be well qualified for the present squad. If Declan Rooney, who has a bit more size, was released to play for Burren before the fixtures were cancelled, he must be pretty close to a recall. He might not be ready to start, but he would give us some options at half back or even midfield.

Corn02, I simply think that the best team won in Clones but I do not particularly like the way Armagh played on the day. I don't understand why you should be referring to `loser talk' a full week later, but I suspect that Armagh have the ability to to vary their approach as the summer progresses. They will certainly have to increase their scoring rate when they face more experienced sides than Down.

We are not really capable of using a blanket defence, as we do not have the players to work that kind of system properly. A couple of wins in the qualifiers would bring us on a long way, but our record in the back door, just like the Ulster championship, is not good. Finding a left-sided free-taker (Colgan ?) would be a big help in Tullamore.

The loss of Doyle is a hammer blow for the team, but it is particularly tough on the player. He has had injury after injury over recent years, worked really hard to get himself somewhere close to his best and then goes down with serious ligament trouble when no one is near him.

He captained both St Colman's to a Hogan Cup and Down to a minor all Ireland, and was then player of the tournament when UUJ won a Sigerson, so you would have to wonder if he played too much football too soon and is now paying the price

Replacing him will be tough, but I would definitely go for Ambrose. He defended brilliantly in Omagh, and tracked back very effectively in Clones as well. He may not be a natural CHB, but there is no obvious alternative in the squad and he is fully capable in growing into the role.

It could be argued in some respects that McKeever is precisely the kind of defender which Down need. He negated Benny, and the best team plainly won on the day as a result. However, it is a question of whether or not you want to be associated with his approach. In many ways, I would prefer to accept that Down lost the match but stand by the way we play the game. 

The team proposed by Minus15 is worth a look. The suggested full back line is the likely one, as Cole must come in and Rafferty will probably miss out. He covers a lot of ground but saw his man get 1-2 from play against Armagh and was badly exposed for the goal. McCartan struggled as well, but he was marking an outstanding forward and did his level best to limit the damage. Howard was our best defender by a mile, did not concede a score from play and I don't think he gave away any kickable frees either.

I would not shift Carr from the half back line just yet, and Murphy, while he never reached the heights of the Tyrone game, is worth keeping as well. There must be a serious concerns about Doyle's injury, and it will probably be a bonus if he appears again this summer. If Doyle is out, I would try Ambrose at CHB as he has the pace and strength and got a couple of great tackles in on Sunday.

Gordon is a certainty at midfield, and I would give Colgan another chance. He had a terrible start against Armagh, getting booked and giving the ball away repeatedly, but it was the first time he had ever started a competitive Down game at senior level and he improved considerably in the second half.

McKernan is the best bet for CHF, and Kearney, who has looked impressive as a sub, should start beside him. Hughes has been ordinary, but might come good at the other wing forward. Murtagh was OK in the first half on Sunday but dreadful after the break and should have been taken off much sooner, while Clarke is also struggling.

Benny does not look match fit, and McKeever also caught him with a couple of late tackles, but it probably makes sense to move him back to full forward. While McComiskey has not really got going in his last two runs as sub, he has to start in Tullamore. Sexton can be named in the corner and roam as usual.

There are plenty of doubts there, and there is a case for Gribben to get his chance, as, if our forwards do not improve substantially, we will be vulnerable. Is there a left-footed free taker in the squad if Doyle is out ?


 

Leo, you should ask yourself how many championship games we actually won with the full back line-up you praise. Molloy was a fine player who did best for us at corner back or even midfield. He struggled every time he was switched to full back, and he retired two years ago.

Scullion was a decent enough defender who still gave away a huge amount of frees. He walked away from the county squad 18 months ago, was asked back, walked again and does not even play club football for Carryduff any more even though he is still in his 20s. There is very little point in putting him forward as a solution to our problems,

Cole was very unlucky to get suspended for two championship games over a relatively minor incident, but he will be back for the next match.

I would agree that Rafferty was poor against Armagh, although McCartan, as always, did his level best against an opponent who is possibly the best in Ireland in his position.

Howard had an outstanding game, kept McDonnell scoreless from play and has nailed down his place in the team. Our full back line is obviously not our strongest sector, but we did not lose the game there in Clones.

Congratulations to Armagh, who had the physique and the quality in key areas to give them the edge on the day and continue their amazing record against us. We have lost every competitive match against them in the championship, league and McKenna Cup since I think 1994. They expect to beat us and it showed today.

We had to get a goal to stand a chance, and Hearty did not really have a save to make. In our last attack of the first half, we had two men free but a pass which I think was from Murphy went astray and the chance was lost. The big problem today was our attack, rather than, as most of us had feared, the defence. Our starting six forwards today got a total of two points from play, which will never win any game.

Armagh, by contrast, could easily have had other goals, although the one they got owed a lot to Doyle's injury.It's easy to be wise after the event, and he is a very important player for us, but he was clearly struggling, with what looked like a hamstring, and Armagh would probably not have got the goal if he had been replaced immediately.

The only criticism I would make of Armagh would be over the repeated follow-through on a man who had just played the ball. It happened throughout the match, and O'Rourke could have few complaints about his red card.

When he walked, we were clearly in with a chance. We did not take it, and we were not quite good enough on the day.

The rumour from the previous poster is very close to the side which most Down supporters want to see. While Ross will be reluctant to change a winning line-up, the inclusion of Colgan and McKernan would be sensible in the circumstances.  McComiskey probably did not do enough in the replay to justify starting, but he can have a huge impact coming off the bench. However, the team which is eventually named officially and the one which actually appears at Clones are not necessarily going to be the same.

The report said that Ambrose has injured his ankle ligaments, which does not sound good. He was absolutely crucial for us in both games against Tyrone, and has really come of age this summer.

Surely McCabe is under contract with Glentoran ? They would legally have first call on him, and may not want him to turn out for Fermanagh at a time when the UEFA Cup is under way. If McCabe defaulted on his contact, he would also lose his wages. However, it is also a little hard to see him simply walking away from an Ulster final. The Fermanagh county board, or someone acting on their behalf, could have to come up with a compensation deal for both parties.

Red Army, it's been announced that, of all the teams in the qualifiers, only the beaten provincial finalists are exempt from the first round. It includes 16 teams, in an open draw. The surviving eight teams then go into another open draw for the second round, and the four left standing then take on the four beaten provincial finalists in the third and last round.