Eighth Amendment poll

[Owen Brannigan]

This poses serious questions for FF as FG performance has given it the progressive label.

[magpie seanie]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Surprised at that to be honest. Although I suppose FF's vote has collapsed in Dublin, so it's probably a more rural vote, which was closer in most cases anyway I think.

Also I think the conservative element of FG's support has left them and gone to FF. Since the Lucinda breakaway.

[AZOffaly]

This poses serious questions for FF as FG performance has given it the progressive label.

I think that's why MM made the speech he did, and caught his on parliamentary party with their pants down.

[sid waddell]

Fianna Fail TDs have no choice now but to accept the proposed legislation.

They'll be signing their own political death warrant by not doing so.

The next election is probably no more than a year away. As a party, they have no future by retreating to social conservatism. There is no market in Irish politics for it.

In five or ten years' time, if you ask the people whether they still support the abolition of the 8th Amendment, the answer will likely be something like 90-10 Yes.

A lot of the rise in the Yes vote since the 2015 referendum can be explained by natural wastage. Social conservatives are literally dying off.

Fianna Fail's vote is dying off with them.

[manfromdelmonte]

FG are progressive?

I give you... James Bannon

[easytiger95]

Fine Gael has had a progressive wing always, epitomised by Garret Fitzgerald's term as leader.

Social liberals seem to be on the ascendant now within the party. Now if they could just do something about their economic policy, dump the neo-liberal market worshipping and move towards a more social democratic model.

[seafoid]

Fine Gael has had a progressive wing always, epitomised by Garret Fitzgerald's term as leader.

Social liberals seem to be on the ascendant now within the party. Now if they could just do something about their economic policy, dump the neo-liberal market worshipping and move towards a more social democratic model.

A citizens assembly focused on the economic model would be very interesting

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/catholics-who-voted-yes-should-consider-confession-says-bishop-1.3511127

[magpie seanie]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/catholics-who-voted-yes-should-consider-confession-says-bishop-1.3511127

He's a complete headcase.

[AZOffaly]

I have my faith, but I have a serious problem with the Catholic Church moralising on anything while in the middle of various scandals and inquiries related to mothers and babies homes, child 'trafficking' and child abuse. You would like to think they'd have enough cop on to realise they need to take a more pastoral tone.

[Bord na Mona man]

You'd have to admire the opportunism of some of the smarter politicians.
When the same-sex marriage referendum passed, I remember Varadkar getting heat on social media for aligning to pro-life when people were assuming he should also pro-choice because he was gay and in favour of gay marriage.

To see him milking it at the weekend gave me a chuckle. The same goes for Micheal Martin. He obviously read the tea leaves better than any opinion poll.
Simon Harris performed weakly during the campaign, but all that ultimately matters was that he was on the winner's podium.
There was little mention of trollies and waiting lists this past month.

In terms of normal elections, abortion isn't in the top 10. Of it ever was, it won't be any more.
I don't think this stuff feeds into normal politics to any great degree.
As it turned out, and probably unknowingly, about 2/3 of people were in favour, but very few people were particularly exercised about it until recently.

[Mayo4Sam]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Surprised at that to be honest. Although I suppose FF's vote has collapsed in Dublin, so it's probably a more rural vote, which was closer in most cases anyway I think.

I think its 33 out of 41 FF TDs were opposed including would be successors to MM Michael McGrath and Dara Calleary.

I won't be one for giving credit to FF but I think it was exceptionally courageous what MM did. He was one of the first party leaders to declare and did so very strongly and can't have been easy given the level of opposition in his party.
Its left FF as a bit of a mess

[Rossfan]

Ok folks -practical realities
How many new Gynaecologists and support staff will the Health Service need for the 3 months no reason abortions?
24 month waiting lists not a runner here.

[armaghniac]

Ok folks -practical realities
How many new Gynaecologists and support staff will the Health Service need for the 3 months no reason abortions?
24 month waiting lists not a runner here.

They'll just take the staff from cancer patients and the like and let them wait.

[sid waddell]

Stand by for a massive new round of fake news from shameless anti-choicers as the legislation is debated and passed.

Absolutely nothing will be off limits.

The irony is that anti-choicers will be desperately hoping for as high an abortion rate as possible in order to try and say "I told you so". 

Late in the campaign they tried to claim, in desperation, that "we can do so much more for women".

So, what are they going to do for women?

The answer, without a shadow of a doubt, is absolutely nothing.

They won't be campaigning for free contraception, or comprehensive sex education, or better supports for single parents, or better supports for parents of disabled children, or better childcare.

What we can expect from them is intimidation and outright bullying of women and staff at GP clinics and hospitals - and even more extremist behaviour than they have already engaged in.