The Sunday Game

[thejuice]

Ten years ago was it any different?

Twenty years ago was it any different?

I thought what was interesting is the difference in resources available to counties coming from comments in the paper by managers. I think there should be some form of equalising of financial resources. That Waterford footballers had to raise the money for their trip to Johnstown House says it all.

I don't want to unfairly penalise teams who have good support and are more attractive to sponsorship but the balance needs redressing. A more competitive even championship benefits everyone long term.

The American NFL has learned this and has been much more competitive than ever since the shared revenue agreement come into being in the early 90's. While I wouldn't go for complete sharing of all revenue as they have, there has to be more done I think.

[AZOffaly]

Over the last ten years Sligo,Westmeath,Roscommon won provincial titles Louth should have won another one in 2010. Cavan,Tipperary with the underage success will be looking to win procincial title in the years ahead.

And how did the provincial title winners do in the Quarter Finals? This year Sligo beaten by London, Tipp at underage have flattered to deceive and Cavan's underage success is largely down to home fixtures. Armagh with a bit of savvy would have won the Prelimary game.

While not convinced that an open draw is going to change things, "the rich are getting richer" with the present structure.

Not sure what you mean regarding the bit in bold. Tipp are consistently competitive in Munster at all underage levels now, which would have been unheard of 20 years ago. They have won the last two Munster Minor football titles, and 2011 All Ireland Minor title. They also have a reasonably successful hurling set up as well. Throw in the Munster U21 in 2010, and that's pretty harsh to call it flattering to deceive. Plenty of counties would love a recent record like that.

If you phrased it badly, and you mean it hasn't translated into senior, then you are correct up to a point. That is the next area of focus here in Tipp, but it's far too soon to write off the underage successes just yet. A lot of the lads there v Kerry have been around a good while, the youth set up is not being rushed through just yet. If Tipp can continue producing competitive underage teams, and work to try and smooth their passage into the Senior set up then they will have success. That's a challenge, no doubt, but hopefully Tipp will be able to meet that challenge.

[Jinxy]

I don't think the likes of Waterford should be gauging themselves by how they fare against Kerry.

[yellowcard]

Not on TSG, but Mc Hugh's analysis on BBC rubbishing the provincial championships was the most significant on TV today. It's a 2 horse race in all four provincial championships. Kildare might give the Dubs a scare, but will be beaten; Donegal are going to cruise through Ulster, Kerry and Cork are playing friendlies until they meet and Mayo have taken care of their best rivals in the west.

It's high time we moved to an open draw for the AI.

Is that the same McHugh who predicted a Monaghan v Derry Ulster final about 3 weeks ago?

[thejuice]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

[heffo]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

[Dinny Breen]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

[lynchbhoy]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

[Croí na hÉireann]

It was like they were talking about a death in the family for gods sake.
Whatever about Waterford, Westmeath can beat plenty of teams in the qualifiers so Flanagan should have steered well clear of this misery-porn.

Isn't that the truth.

[seafoid]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well. 

[Dont Matter]

Here's another thread where someone wont point out the obvious. Dublin weren't even brought up and a Dub pops in to say the situation shouldn't be changed.
7 million euro. Say it.
It doesn't matter what's done at senior level. "There needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to." That wont make one iota of difference, it's underage where the difference is happening.
That rubbish you're spouting about increased population is pathetic. It's the money, even Flanagan said on the Sunday Game. He had an underage team, think it was the u21's and they had to play Dublin. He said the difference in physical conditioning was staggering.
Now you're claim that the improvement in Dublin underage football is down to a few lads teaching them how to kick points.

It really is a joke. No one will take it seriously.

[Lar Naparka]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

All your points are valid but there are other issues to take into account as well.
Do you remember the report of the committee headed by Peter Quinn that looked at the structures of the GAA and came up with recommendations for change?
(Can't recall the time but it was about 10-12 years ago.)
One such recommendation was that Dublin be split in three for GAA purposes with each region acting as a separate entity.
The howls from the true blue Dubs knocked that on the head but the basis of the proposal was valid.
Quinn and his team looked at the number of kids playing at weekends in each county and found that each of the five largest Dublin clubs could field more youngsters than any of five named counties. I know Leitrim and Fermanagh were mentioned and I think Sligo, Monaghan and Cavan were the others.
The emphasis on the suggestion was the huge drop of in participation as the age limits increased as ultimately there is only one county panel at the top of the pyramid.
That's the case in every other county as well but if Dublin was split up, the drop out rate as kids get older would decrease dramatically.
I thought the proposal deserved serious consideration. For starters, Dublin is now effectively three different counties for local government purposes.

[lynchbhoy]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

i think it helps massively. Generalisation yes, but imo its half the battle.
the other half is coaching underage to quality levels, then up to county mgt.

kerry and kilkenny really only play one sport - so their population is all accessible generally only to that one game.

dunno about the sports shops- poss seasonal with the recent rugby finals and the lions tour on. also its only the start of the GAA championship season. Liffey valley will be awash with dubs jerseys on sale and worn in a week or two.

[seafoid]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

i think it helps massively. Generalisation yes, but imo its half the battle.
the other half is coaching underage to quality levels, then up to county mgt.

kerry and kilkenny really only play one sport - so their population is all accessible generally only to that one game.

dunno about the sports shops- poss seasonal with the recent rugby finals and the lions tour on. also its only the start of the GAA championship season. Liffey valley will be awash with dubs jerseys on sale and worn in a week or two.

Maybe punters are waiting for the dubs to get a sponsor. But competition with other sports is serious. They get 400 kids to Saturday rugby in wexford town. And all the sports want the fellas with potential.

[Canalman]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

All your points are valid but there are other issues to take into account as well.
Do you remember the report of the committee headed by Peter Quinn that looked at the structures of the GAA and came up with recommendations for change?
(Can't recall the time but it was about 10-12 years ago.)
One such recommendation was that Dublin be split in three for GAA purposes with each region acting as a separate entity.
The howls from the true blue Dubs knocked that on the head but the basis of the proposal was valid.
Quinn and his team looked at the number of kids playing at weekends in each county and found that each of the five largest Dublin clubs could field more youngsters than any of five named counties. I know Leitrim and Fermanagh were mentioned and I think Sligo, Monaghan and Cavan were the others.
The emphasis on the suggestion was the huge drop of in participation as the age limits increased as ultimately there is only one county panel at the top of the pyramid.
That's the case in every other county as well but if Dublin was split up, the drop out rate as kids get older would decrease dramatically.
I thought the proposal deserved serious consideration. For starters, Dublin is now effectively three different counties for local government purposes.

Selective enough in  your stats there Larnaparka.

Most of the "superclubs" would have an A, B and C team only at underage level. Maybe according to the census they "could" field more than other counties but they don't and never will.

When you tot them up there aren't too many of such superclubs but they are always trotted out as the norm.

DLRCC area for example  has c210,000 people and I reckon only 8 or so GAA clubs.

Not saying that Dublin has its advantages but not to the extent widely portrayed.