Spitting

[Nally Stand]

Nally, spitting and name calling (no matter what the name it is) cannot be in the same category,

If Paul Galvin had spat on a cookstown player, would love to have heard your response,

Sectarian abuse is not just "name calling" in the same way as racist abuse is not just "name calling". Spitting, sectarian abuse and racist abuse are three actions that are well beneath contempt.

I agree that they are all beneath contempt,

but would you rather someone gob in your face or call you a sectarian name like a british b**tard or a fenian b**tard or whatever

they are not on the same level or knowhere near the same level

As far as I'm concerned, one would be as scummy an action as the other. In fact personally speaking, I think a player spitting at me would be less likely to provoke a reaction than a fellow Irishman calling me a british b*****d etc, but that is not the point. They are both filthy scummy actions and as such, if one action is worthy of public condemnation, then it's a beyond hypocritical to criticise someone for daring to mention the other.

Mulligan isn't just mentioning the verbal abuse though, he's defending the guy who spat at Galvin.

And I've not defended him for doing so.

[spuds]

THE bitter Kerry-Tyrone enmity has taken yet another twist with Owen Mulligan launching an impassioned defence of his club and a team-mate amidst more allegations of a spitting incident in a high-profile GAA match.

Mulligan's club Fr Rock's from Cookstown won last month's All-Ireland intermediate football final by beating a Finuge side featuring Kerry star Paul Galvin in Croke Park.

But over the weekend a video clip of an incident in that match surfaced on YouTube appearing to show Galvin being spat on.

The clip shows Galvin wiping his face and then protesting to Mulligan (above), who was on the field but was not involved in the alleged spitting incident.

The latest allegation comes as Tyrone County Board lay a charge of disrepute against a fan for allegedly spitting at Donegal's Footballer of the Year Karl Lacey after their recent league match in Omagh, and Leitrim forward Emlyn Mulligan's allegation that he was spat at during his side's defeat to Offaly in Sunday's football league Division 4 fixture in Carrick-on-Shannon.

Mulligan took to his twitter and Facebook accounts yesterday to vigorously defend the position of his club after the video clip made its way into the public domain. On Twitter, he said the spitting allegations were "out of control."

Mulligan claims the match was played against the backdrop of abusive comments but says in a very strongly-worded statement posted on his Facebook page that he is a firm believer that "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch". As a consequence, he didn't want to go into detail of what was said immediately after the game, saying "the GAA has had enough negative press recently."

When contacted by the Irish Independent last night Mulligan re-iterated his support for his club and outlined how verbal abuse and sledging had become "unfortunately a strong part of the game.

Wonder did Mulligan have any issues when Gormley and McMenamin were coming out with all their slabber on the pitch? Letting himself and his club down badly trying to deflect attention away from the crass spitting incident. Indefensible.

Fair play to him. If Kerry lads were dishing out sectarian abuse, then it deserves to be brought up. It's every bit as as vile as spitting on someone.

I see Nally has the blinkers back on ready to back his side regardless of what happened. 

Blinkers? So public condemnation of a Tyrone man spitting is fine but sectarian abuse from Kerry players should not be spoken of? And I'm the one with blinkers on??? 

The nature of the recent spiteful rivalry between Kerry and Tyrone teams at both county and club level players will be expecting comments such as "free state b**tar*s" and "go home to England/Britain" coming their way. To spit at an opponent, especially one with his back to you, is pretty much as low as one can go on the GAA field.
Have always had good time for Eoin Mulligan, particularly going back to 2004 All Ireland quarter final after Mayo won, Mulligan stood at the tunnel exit in Croke park shaking hands with all the Mayo players leaving the field. A class act. This comment today lets himself and his club down badly.

[Saffrongael]

So why is Mulligan only coming out with this now, is it just because one of his teammates has been caught acting like a gypsy?

[Hound]

Nally, spitting and name calling (no matter what the name it is) cannot be in the same category,

If Paul Galvin had spat on a cookstown player, would love to have heard your response,

Sectarian abuse is not just "name calling" in the same way as racist abuse is not just "name calling". Spitting, sectarian abuse and racist abuse are three actions that are well beneath contempt.

Hang on, sectarian abuse? Between two Irish, Catholic (assumption on my part), GAA players?

In 2011 when Dublin hammered Tyrone, as we were walking up Jones Rd, a crowd of Dubs behind us started singing and jeering and shouting at us to "f**k off back to England" (yes, England) and calling us "black b**tards". Stupidity is no excuse. Sectarian abuse is sectarian abuse.

Alan Brogan was called a "fenian c**t" by the Tyrone physio during the so called battle of Omagh! What was his excuse I wonder?

[brokencrossbar1]

Nally, 'sectarian' abuse has been happening for years.  It is wrong and should be eradicated but it won't as it is impossible to police.   When,for example,a lunatic of a goalkeeper were to run from his goal and whisper in your ear after his team scores the winning goal, 'f**k off back to the black north now ye Orange bastard,' that is wrong but the umpires won't see or hear anything wrong until such times as the said fictitious goalie takes a huge fall as if he's been shot and the umpires or linesmen will see that and maybe even the lash of an elbow in retaliation to the comment.  In this made-up and completely non-factual scenario the ref can only send off the young player who has retaliated and not the experienced former county goalkeeper who has taken a dive.  It would be wrong,in this fictional scenario, for the young player to spit in his face and it would also be wrong to strike out but of the two evils the belt in the gob is by far the more 'respectful' and 'manly' response to this type of sectarian sledging.

The case of the Cookstown player is one of the most cowardly and despicable I have ever seen and no amount of whataboutery can justify it. He came in from a very sleeked angle and spat at Galvin and scurried off like the coward he is.  Mugsy has made a pathetic attempt to deflect from this incident when he would have been better off keeping his counsel and letting things take their natural course.  Spitting can be a reaction when someone is in your face but in these circumstances there was no confrontation, he ran past and cowardly spat in a man's face and that is indefensible.

[Saffrongael]

Nally, 'sectarian' abuse has been happening for years.  It is wrong and should be eradicated but it won't as it is impossible to police.   When,for example,a lunatic of a goalkeeper were to run from his goal and whisper in your ear after his team scores the winning goal, 'f**k off back to the black north now ye Orange b**tard,' that is wrong but the umpires won't see or hear anything wrong until such times as the said fictitious goalie takes a huge fall as if he's been shot and the umpires or linesmen will see that and maybe even the lash of an elbow in retaliation to the comment.  In this made-up and completely non-factual scenario the ref can only send off the young player who has retaliated and not the experienced former county goalkeeper who has taken a dive.  It would be wrong,in this fictional scenario, for the young player to spit in his face and it would also be wrong to strike out but of the two evils the belt in the gob is by far the more 'respectful' and 'manly' response to this type of sectarian sledging.

The case of the Cookstown player is one of the most cowardly and despicable I have ever seen and no amount of whataboutery can justify it. He came in from a very sleeked angle and spat at Galvin and scurried off like the coward he is.  Mugsy has made a pathetic attempt to deflect from this incident when he would have been better off keeping his counsel and letting things take their natural course.  Spitting can be a reaction when someone is in your face but in these circumstances there was no confrontation, he ran past and cowardly spat in a man's face and that is indefensible.

Nail on the head

[Onion Bag]

Nally, 'sectarian' abuse has been happening for years.  It is wrong and should be eradicated but it won't as it is impossible to police.   When,for example,a lunatic of a goalkeeper were to run from his goal and whisper in your ear after his team scores the winning goal, 'f**k off back to the black north now ye Orange b**tard,' that is wrong but the umpires won't see or hear anything wrong until such times as the said fictitious goalie takes a huge fall as if he's been shot and the umpires or linesmen will see that and maybe even the lash of an elbow in retaliation to the comment.  In this made-up and completely non-factual scenario the ref can only send off the young player who has retaliated and not the experienced former county goalkeeper who has taken a dive.  It would be wrong,in this fictional scenario, for the young player to spit in his face and it would also be wrong to strike out but of the two evils the belt in the gob is by far the more 'respectful' and 'manly' response to this type of sectarian sledging.

The case of the Cookstown player is one of the most cowardly and despicable I have ever seen and no amount of whataboutery can justify it. He came in from a very sleeked angle and spat at Galvin and scurried off like the coward he is.  Mugsy has made a pathetic attempt to deflect from this incident when he would have been better off keeping his counsel and letting things take their natural course.  Spitting can be a reaction when someone is in your face but in these circumstances there was no confrontation, he ran past and cowardly spat in a man's face and that is indefensible.

Great post BCB,

A cowardly disgusting act, i hope the authorities come down hard on him,
I coached the young lads for the last 2 years at home and i spotted on morning at traning one of the lads spitting on the other, they were only messing around but i sent him home and waited for the parent to ring me,
The parent thanked me when i explained what had happened.

Mugsy should have just kept quiet and not try to justify it by the "well they were calling us names" line

[Nally Stand]

I am in no way condoning the Cookstown player - I have said it already, it was a scummy action. I don't know how much clearer I can put it. I also think that if there was sectarian abuse, then Mugsy should have complained about it long before now. There's a general perception developing here that if it's just verbal abuse, sure, let it slide. As far as  am concerned, when it comes to racist or sectarian abuse between players, then no, it shouldn't be let slide. In my books, such forms of abuse are no better than being spat on. Mugsy's timing was all wrong, but to turn a blind eye to a serious accusation just because of it's timing or because a video camera can't pick it up, is wrong. This board is always bursting at the seems with moral high-grounders when it comes to GAA violence, but it seems a lot of such people are happy to pick and choose what is allowed to be talked about.

[Tony Baloney]

Nally, 'sectarian' abuse has been happening for years.  It is wrong and should be eradicated but it won't as it is impossible to police.   When,for example,a lunatic of a goalkeeper were to run from his goal and whisper in your ear after his team scores the winning goal, 'f**k off back to the black north now ye Orange b**tard,' that is wrong but the umpires won't see or hear anything wrong until such times as the said fictitious goalie takes a huge fall as if he's been shot and the umpires or linesmen will see that and maybe even the lash of an elbow in retaliation to the comment.  In this made-up and completely non-factual scenario the ref can only send off the young player who has retaliated and not the experienced former county goalkeeper who has taken a dive.  It would be wrong,in this fictional scenario, for the young player to spit in his face and it would also be wrong to strike out but of the two evils the belt in the gob is by far the more 'respectful' and 'manly' response to this type of sectarian sledging.

The case of the Cookstown player is one of the most cowardly and despicable I have ever seen and no amount of whataboutery can justify it. He came in from a very sleeked angle and spat at Galvin and scurried off like the coward he is.  Mugsy has made a pathetic attempt to deflect from this incident when he would have been better off keeping his counsel and letting things take their natural course.  Spitting can be a reaction when someone is in your face but in these circumstances there was no confrontation, he ran past and cowardly spat in a man's face and that is indefensible.

Well said (for a Cross man).

[brokencrossbar1]

That is fair enough Nally,you're right that Mulligan's timing is wrong.  However,if you look at the nature of the incident.  The guy who spat at Galvin came from behind him and made the conscious effort to spit on him. To me that is not a reactionary act from being abused verbally.  It was a conscious act that had a certain level of pre-meditation in it.  Mulligan should have said nothing, I know that if a team mate of  mine did that, no matter what the circumstances, I would find it hard to back him.  It is hard not to back your own but if it is right to say nothing then you should say nothing. 

[Nally Stand]

That is fair enough Nally,you're right that Mulligan's timing is wrong.  However,if you look at the nature of the incident.  The guy who spat at Galvin came from behind him and made the conscious effort to spit on him. To me that is not a reactionary act from being abused verbally.  It was a conscious act that had a certain level of pre-meditation in it.  Mulligan should have said nothing, I know that if a team mate of  mine did that, no matter what the circumstances, I would find it hard to back him.  It is hard not to back your own but if it is right to say nothing then you should say nothing.

Again, you seem to be implying that I'm offering some sort of justification for the spitting as it being that particular players "reaction" to Galvin. I am doing no such thing. I have no more idea than anybody here as to whether the Cookstown player or Galvin were involved in the alleged sectarian abuse. My only points are that while mugsy's timing was wrong, (he should have reported it in the immediate aftermath of the game, if not during it), the allegation is remains a very serious one and should not be just ignored simply because of it's timing or because of the fact that video evidence cannot prove it. Like spitting, sectarian abuse between fellow GAA players is beneath contempt. Both allegations deserve to be investigated.

[Fuzzman]

I have to agree strongly with your last line there Nally Stand however when I read the article from Mugsy this morning I thought Ahh Jaysus not this again. Can't believe he's stoked the fire.

I did not watch the match and so I don't know was there any incident between the offender and Galvin before hand. I get the feeling Mugsy is trying to insinuate that maybe Galvin had sectarianly sledged yer man and so that was his retaliation.
Whatever it was, to me spitting is just disgraceful and I think Mugsy would have been better just saying nothing as it now looks like he's almost defending the spitting action.
Had he said something after the game and then it would have all looked quite different

To me the player who spat deserves a big ban, maybe the club a fine but Mugsy should have thought what will be outcome now if he tweets that news. In his eyes maybe he thinks it somehow justifys why yer man spat on Galvin but had the discussed it with someone sensible that was removed from the game then he might not have posted anything.

Personally I am totally disgusted by some of the actions that have been happening that is giving Tyrone gaels a bad name. Yes we have more than our fair share of incident and I think the county board need to take a look at changing people's perception.
Some people seem to think such behaviour will only noticed locally and not get into the national media but with youtube, facebook and twitter nowadays a lot of stuff that might have been going on for years is getting made public.
I'm just back from a funeral in Dublin of a well known Parnells Gael and a lad starting asking me about this spitting epidemic in Tyrone.

Of course a lot of the anti Tyrone brigade (or just shit stirrers) are more than happy to pick out our incidents and turn a blind eye to many of other incidents in their own county or even club. That's the nature of these boards and of some media I suppose. However, we can only deal with our own clubs & fans and I think its about time something was said publicly about how our reputation is being dragged through the gutter again and how we need to clean up our act and when we're out and about wearing our colours we need to remember we're representing our county and to behave accordingly.

One last point I want to make to our southern readers.
If you've lived your whole live in the North, under the Union Jack and put up with all the sh*t that comes with that.
Can you understand how hard it is then to be at a GAA game, where you expect your fellow Irish Gaels to at least treat you as an equal but instead they too dismiss you as an unwanted half Irish half Brit. It is indeed a real slap in the face and makes you resent these people who you thought you had more in common with that the British.

[J70]

One of the quoted players said the usual cliche that offensive behaviour should be left on the field and not made an issue of after. Why should this be? If some lowlife spits or grabs your balls or insults your girlfriend or other scummy tactics designed to get a reaction, why should the abusee be expected to just shake hands at the end and forget about it? It's a strange code peculiar to sports! I can see the advantage in that the victim just moves on with his real life instead of escalating things, but it must be hard to just walk away, and morally and ethically very  conflicting!

[Boghopper]

BC1 the incident involving Curran and young Carragher was a joke, the footage of Curran when he is receiving treatment clearly showed him laughing in acknowledgement that he had gotten the lad sent off for nothing, fair play to Cross they didn't moan and complain about the incident. I never liked Curran and I hope his career dosen't end on a high after some of his previous comments regarding Tyrone GAA. Getting back to the theme of this thread, I don't see how spitting can be defended, although I would have to question why this video has ended up on Youtube and why the Kerry Club didn't pass footage of the game to the CCCC if they felt the ofending player should be punished for his conduct. I also know that Kerry people have a deep seated hatred of Tyrone people and the North in general having witnessed this behaviour on a number of occasions and most recently in Killarney at a qualifer last summer. I would have felt more comfortable at a Celtic v Rangers game at Ibrox than I actally did in Killarney that day. I also know from personal experience last year a la Dromid Pearses how Kerry teams have this holier than thou art attitude and once beaten if there have been any unsavory match incidents they will release a selective piece of footage which paints the opposition in a bad light therefore taking the gloss of their opponents win. In this process they will very conveniently ignore any footage which reflects badly on them. I can't see why Mugsy would defend his teamate I couldn't defend a few of mine after Portlaoise last year although I can see why he would perhaps try to offer some explanation as to why it happened.  I heard from a few neutrals that Finuge behaved very badly on the field of play and the game statistics will show they had 2/3? men sent off and that Cookstown won. Conclusion spitting has no place in our games nor is their any place for anti-northern slagging or sore Kerry losers.

[brokencrossbar1]

That is fair enough Nally,you're right that Mulligan's timing is wrong.  However,if you look at the nature of the incident.  The guy who spat at Galvin came from behind him and made the conscious effort to spit on him. To me that is not a reactionary act from being abused verbally.  It was a conscious act that had a certain level of pre-meditation in it.  Mulligan should have said nothing, I know that if a team mate of  mine did that, no matter what the circumstances, I would find it hard to back him.  It is hard not to back your own but if it is right to say nothing then you should say nothing.

Again, you seem to be implying that I'm offering some sort of justification for the spitting as it being that particular players "reaction" to Galvin. I am doing no such thing. I have no more idea than anybody here as to whether the Cookstown player or Galvin were involved in the alleged sectarian abuse. My only points are that while mugsy's timing was wrong, (he should have reported it in the immediate aftermath of the game, if not during it), the allegation is remains a very serious one and should not be just ignored simply because of it's timing or because of the fact that video evidence cannot prove it. Like spitting, sectarian abuse between fellow GAA players is beneath contempt. Both allegations deserve to be investigated.

Ok Nally, you're not justifying it but Mulligan is more or less and it is that which I am referring to.    I agree both allegations should be investigated and i anyone is found to be guilty of sectarian abuse then they should be dealt with accordingly.