The Club Players Association have pulled out of the #GAA fixtures task force, citing a loss of faith with the process. Has anyone any strong opinions on this?
Want to see some details.
Are they objecting (late in the day) to the process? Or was their proposal shot down or were they simply being ignored and just included for semantics?
They're saying the process is based on retaining too much of the current system and isn't a blank page approach which they've always said is the only answer. So they can't agree to it.
if they aren't being listened to and only there as a token gesture then they are right to make a point and pull out.
personally i think get the club season finished off in the calendar year, have All Ireland finals on St Stephens day, great way to finish the year. you have club players who are waiting for their AI semi final, train to feb for possibly 1 game, players are as fit now as they will be in feb, they have peaked, finish the season and give non county players a chance of an off season in jan and feb.
All Ireland finals on St Stephen's day would be a total joke, and a slap in the face for families. Imagine travelling up from Kerry or Donegal the evening before ::)
The CPA will only have had lip service paid to their ideas. They're correct to withdraw.
The only option is a nationwide strike where teams across the country simply refuse to play and full fill fixtures. An entirely new approach to fixtures and scheduling of games needs to be undertaken. In Tyrone no football is played between June and the end of August. But they are now into league promotion and relegation playoffs. Before preseason starts in Jan. It's a crazy situation
Quote from: trailer on November 19, 2019, 12:57:43 PM
In Tyrone no football is played between June and the end of August. But they are now into league promotion and relegation playoffs. Before preseason starts in Jan. It's a crazy situation
They're the choices your clubs have made.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 19, 2019, 12:30:26 PM
They're saying the process is based on retaining too much of the current system and isn't a blank page approach which they've always said is the only answer. So they can't agree to it.
Year zero solutions almost always fail.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/1119/1092851-cpa-withdraws-from-task-force-and-criticises-gaa/
https://www.gaa.ie/news-archive/news/statement-fixture-calendar-review-task-force/
Clear as day that John Horan scuppered his own task force by rushing through the tier 2 championship.
Quote from: five points on November 19, 2019, 05:27:25 PM
Clear as day that John Horan scuppered his own task force by rushing through the tier 2 championship.
Absolutely. This was inevitable. CPA wanted a blank page approach, Horan has a new championship structure set up to start next June. What other way could it have ended?
Full CPA statement here
https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CPA-Statement_Nov-19.pdf
Fully agree with the CPA here
GAA have no desire to tackle club fixtures crisis especially when bring in more games like super 8's .
I'd argue all day that a hefty percentage of clubs have little interest in tackling the fixture crisis either, as they'll do anything not to play without their county players.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 19, 2019, 08:39:59 PM
I'd argue all day that a hefty percentage of clubs have little interest in tackling the fixture crisis either, as they'll do anything not to play without their county players.
Has every county got minor competitions for clubs without county players? What about starred league games? I know it makes a difference when a club has a few county men, but it does give 'ordinary club players' the chance to play games.
That's what happens in Mayo. And if we get knocked out early, all are allowed play.
Quote from: Gael85 on November 19, 2019, 08:22:18 PM
GAA have no desire to tackle club fixtures crisis especially when bring in more games like super 8's .
The previous administration, despite the criticism they got, compressed the season while still introducing the Super 8s meaning that club championships were able to begin earlier as counties exited the All Ireland series earlier.
I'm not sure but I think Horan has managed to reverse these changes with his Tier 2 championship.
Who is the CPA?
Who do they represent?
What mandate do they have?
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 19, 2019, 11:04:15 PM
The previous administration, despite the criticism they got, compressed the season while still introducing the Super 8s meaning that club championships were able to begin earlier as counties exited the All Ireland series earlier.
That hasn't happened though. Almost all counties schedule their county finals for 2-3 weeks ahead of the winner's first game in the provincial club championships. If they schedule them earlier they'll be accused of scuppering their chances of doing well in the provincials. Tail wagging dog in usual GAA fashion.
Quote from: Carbery on November 21, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
Who is the CPA?
A tiny group of pundits and malcontents.
QuoteWho do they represent?
Nobody. They have no members. They asked people to register on their website and counted them all as members without making any attempt to verify their identity or playing status.
QuoteWhat mandate do they have?
None.
Have they not got an official membership, fees etc? :o
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2019, 12:29:54 PM
Have they not got an official membership, fees etc? :o
Neither. Just register here and you're added to the list. https://gaaclubplayers.com/register/
Quote from: five points on November 21, 2019, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on November 19, 2019, 11:04:15 PM
The previous administration, despite the criticism they got, compressed the season while still introducing the Super 8s meaning that club championships were able to begin earlier as counties exited the All Ireland series earlier.
That hasn't happened though. Almost all counties schedule their county finals for 2-3 weeks ahead of the winner's first game in the provincial club championships. If they schedule them earlier they'll be accused of scuppering their chances of doing well in the provincials. Tail wagging dog in usual GAA fashion.
Perhaps, but time was created for the county boards to use as they saw fit.
Quote from: five points on November 21, 2019, 12:16:32 PM
Quote from: Carbery on November 21, 2019, 11:33:41 AM
Who is the CPA?
A tiny group of pundits and malcontents.
QuoteWho do they represent?
Nobody. They have no members. They asked people to register on their website and counted them all as members without making any attempt to verify their identity or playing status.
QuoteWhat mandate do they have?
None.
Why did the GAA give them a seat at the table so? Seems strange if they had no mandate........
Did they hold an AGM or EGM ?
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 19, 2019, 06:45:10 PM
Full CPA statement here
https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CPA-Statement_Nov-19.pdf
" We strongly pushed for an independent chairman that was 'of the GAA' but 'not from the GAA'. "
What's that supposed to mean?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 21, 2019, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on November 19, 2019, 06:45:10 PM
Full CPA statement here
https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CPA-Statement_Nov-19.pdf
" We strongly pushed for an independent chairman that was 'of the GAA' but 'not from the GAA'. "
What's that supposed to mean?
Someone who is well respected but who had no prior experience of fixture making? Which would beg the question of what on earth they would be doing chairing such a committee in the first place.
The language of "factions" and "insiders" is a bit odd too.
Seems like the CPA's being more confrontational than they need to be. It needs to be a collective decision, and they're throwing the rattle out of the pram because they're not getting their own way exclusively. Seems like the GAA management has gone out of its way to include as many stakeholders as possible, the CPA included. Hardly the actions of dictators.
Any of us here could do better on the back of an envelope
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/three-sfc-proposals-set-for-consideration-965831.html
Very much so. Embarrassing stuff.
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 27, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Pretty sure that the CPA came out and said there from the get-go that there would be no expenses of any kind received by anyone involved with them.
Very hard to make the case that the people involved aren't genuine GAA folk who are looking to improve matters in my opinion.
The statement they released on why they pulled out of the negotiations is fairly damming in terms of how the GAA insiders carried on.
Real whiff of "we've let ye in the room, ye can say our piece but we're not going to pay a dammed bit of notice to one word ye say. Even if ye someone manage to pull together a magical solution that pleases everyone, there's no way we're even going to consider it."
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
I'd have thought the question is, what were the terms of reference for this committee?
The CPA seem to think that it was a blank page approach to fixtures which is unlikely to have been the case in practice.
Nothing is ever a blank page approach in the GAA; everything is incremental and to think that this would've been any different was naive, especially with the Tier 2 competition being introduced while the committee was still meeting.
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
I agree 100%
Would no league relegation help change that mentality?
Next year's league standings are decided on this years championship performance? E.g Division 1 2020 would be your championship quarter-finalists from 2019. 8 team division home and away. 14 league games to played through April to July.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/roscommon-motion-leaves-fixtures-task-force-facing-another-hurdle-38733573.html
Tommy Kenoy still active anyway.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
One Jonny isn't the problem, its when there's five or six Jonnys missing.
The impact that can have on a club can be devastating, even training standards take a battering.
There's no one answer to this issue.
JC I get your point, and I know that the Ards is its own micro economy when it comes to filling out a county hurling team, but would it not be unusual for a club to be capable of producing half-a-dozen elite players, but have no strength in depth?
I'm not saying performances wouldn't suffer if teams fielded regularly without county players. But I would expect as sway every couple of years, with some clubs thriving and others falling behind, then the poles reversing. not much different to now.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 03:55:51 PM
JC I get your point, and I know that the Ards is its own micro economy when it comes to filling out a county hurling team, but would it not be unusual for a club to be capable of producing half-a-dozen elite players, but have no strength in depth?
I'm not saying performances wouldn't suffer if teams fielded regularly without county players. But I would expect as sway every couple of years, with some clubs thriving and others falling behind, then the poles reversing. not much different to now.
We just couldn't field at senior level ATM, that's the bottom line.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 27, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, what's is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you don't agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player can't play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why don't you loaded to the club and county evenly.
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player can't play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why don't you loaded to the club and county evenly.
The difficulty is more physiological than physical.
County players put in the hard yards all winter and spring with a goal of playing summer football at the highest level.
To then ask them to jump flippantly between club and county, especially in peak season county, it is - in my opinion - more than a touch unfair. Not because of risk of tiredness or injuries (though these are factors), but because asking them to give 100% equally to two causes has to be an emotional drain.
Of course they want to play for their clubs. But during a county championship season, it's surely not just as high on the list of priorities, especially as they progress in the AI series, and dreams come closer to reality, and the intensity required to fulfil that dream requires selfishness.
I was never even remotely good enough at football to put myself on their actual shoes. But anybody who believes that tearing someone in two directions will lead to a fulfilled conclusion in either, is ignoring every rule they've learned in life, and creating a special fantasy case for GAA commitment.
——
Encourage the GAA to wrap up the county season as quick as possible. Encourage the GAA to eliminate as many county teams as early as possible in the summer. Play club GAA with gay abandon while your county team progresses, and then with even gayer abandon when they're out.
This is the only way to ensure a regular and fulfilling club season for the 98%.
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 27, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, what's is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you don't agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?
No agenda here, but you wont get a calendar season with a clear start and finish without first doing a lot of harm. And I don't agree that club players are always getting shafted. The club scene in most counties, as far as I can see, is thriving.
Granted, clubs naturally want to have their best/county panel players for as many league games as possible and for the entire championship campaign. If players are going to play for club and county, each has to accommodate the other.
One idea I'd have is for county league promotion and relegation to be based on championship performance. So if you lose league games because you're missing Johnny the county man for a couple of months, you won't be punished.
And I'd ditch the new idea of your national league status impacting on your All Ireland Championship status. If counties want to release players on a rotational basis to allow their club have them for a weekend or two in the spring, they shouldn't be punished either.
Forcing a calendar season means that club championships will be rushed in counties that do well in the intercounty championship. I'd give counties that reach the All Ireland QFs a bye in the early rounds of the club provincial senior championships.
And I'd scrap the intermediate and junior provincial championships, or play them knockout in Jan or Feb.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 06:34:03 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player can't play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why don't you loaded to the club and county evenly.
The difficulty is more physiological than physical.
County players put in the hard yards all winter and spring with a goal of playing summer football at the highest level.
To then ask them to jump flippantly between club and county, especially in peak season county, it is - in my opinion - more than a touch unfair. Not because of risk of tiredness or injuries (though these are factors), but because asking them to give 100% equally to two causes has to be an emotional drain.
Of course they want to play for their clubs. But during a county championship season, it's surely not just as high on the list of priorities, especially as they progress in the AI series, and dreams come closer to reality, and the intensity required to fulfil that dream requires selfishness.
I was never even remotely good enough at football to put myself on their actual shoes. But anybody who believes that tearing someone in two directions will lead to a fulfilled conclusion in either, is ignoring every rule they've learned in life, and creating a special fantasy case for GAA commitment.
——
Encourage the GAA to wrap up the county season as quick as possible. Encourage the GAA to eliminate as many county teams as early as possible in the summer. Play club GAA with gay abandon while your county team progresses, and then with even gayer abandon when they're out.
This is the only way to ensure a regular and fulfilling club season for the 98%.
I don't want to be confrontational but it seems to me you're not following this issue very closely. The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).
Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 29, 2019, 12:55:12 PM
The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).
Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.
When I were a young lad, we often had club league games on the same afternoon as Ulster SFC games. Nobody died. Whether the Ulster SFC takes 2 or 20 weeks to complete shouldn't matter to clubs once common sense is applied elsewhere.
You are correct that the whole issue is very nuanced and detailed.
Quote from: five points on November 29, 2019, 12:21:54 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 27, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, what's is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you don't agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?
No agenda here, but you wont get a calendar season with a clear start and finish without first doing a lot of harm. And I don't agree that club players are always getting shafted. The club scene in most counties, as far as I can see, is thriving.
Granted, clubs naturally want to have their best/county panel players for as many league games as possible and for the entire championship campaign. If players are going to play for club and county, each has to accommodate the other.
One idea I'd have is for county league promotion and relegation to be based on championship performance. So if you lose league games because you're missing Johnny the county man for a couple of months, you won't be punished.
And I'd ditch the new idea of your national league status impacting on your All Ireland Championship status. If counties want to release players on a rotational basis to allow their club have them for a weekend or two in the spring, they shouldn't be punished either.
Forcing a calendar season means that club championships will be rushed in counties that do well in the intercounty championship. I'd give counties that reach the All Ireland QFs a bye in the early rounds of the club provincial senior championships.
And I'd scrap the intermediate and junior provincial championships, or play them knockout in Jan or Feb.
How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?
Quote from: supersarsfields on November 29, 2019, 01:54:38 PM
How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?
Playoffs, until there's 1, 2 or whatever number left, who go down. Lots of counties have them, including my own.
Quote from: supersarsfields on November 29, 2019, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: five points on November 29, 2019, 12:21:54 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 27, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
Some serious bullshit on here about the CPA which has to be answered.
If people think they're anything but a genuine group of people who are honestly dedicated to fixing the fixtures then they need their heads read. Take the time to listen to their representatives and read the documents they've published. There's absolutely nothing in it for these people yet they're giving their free time to push this. The CPA leadership desperately hope that this gets fixed and the CPA is disbanded as soon as possible. That's an undeniable fact.
And there are quite a number of people signed up who interact with the CPA leadership, responding to questionnaire's, providing feedback, attending meetings.
It's the same with everything in this country. We say "things are shit" but "please don't fix them". Anyone who gets up off their holes to try and fix something is derided as a crank.
Well said MS, what's is Five Points agenda here. Saying as you don't agree with the CPA suggestions to sort the continued shafting of club players, prey tell us all your ideas to solve the club players plight and have a calendar season with a clear start and finish?
No agenda here, but you wont get a calendar season with a clear start and finish without first doing a lot of harm. And I don't agree that club players are always getting shafted. The club scene in most counties, as far as I can see, is thriving.
Granted, clubs naturally want to have their best/county panel players for as many league games as possible and for the entire championship campaign. If players are going to play for club and county, each has to accommodate the other.
One idea I'd have is for county league promotion and relegation to be based on championship performance. So if you lose league games because you're missing Johnny the county man for a couple of months, you won't be punished.
And I'd ditch the new idea of your national league status impacting on your All Ireland Championship status. If counties want to release players on a rotational basis to allow their club have them for a weekend or two in the spring, they shouldn't be punished either.
Forcing a calendar season means that club championships will be rushed in counties that do well in the intercounty championship. I'd give counties that reach the All Ireland QFs a bye in the early rounds of the club provincial senior championships.
And I'd scrap the intermediate and junior provincial championships, or play them knockout in Jan or Feb.
How would that look? Obviosuly in a League you play so many games and the 2/3 teams at the bottom go down. How would that work tied to a championship where you have 50% of the teams out in the first round?
Doesn't that system make your league competition completely meaningless?
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 29, 2019, 02:36:24 PM
Doesn't that system make your league competition completely meaningless?
Maybe it does, that depends on what you mean by meaningless. If you're in the top division of a league you can't get promoted anyway. Every league has teams who in a given year know they aren't good enough to be promoted and won't get relegated unless the wheels fall off the wagon altogether. These aren't meaningless leagues.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 29, 2019, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 06:34:03 PM
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2019, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Quote from: five points on November 28, 2019, 10:47:29 AM
Just because you're a genuine GAA person doesn't mean your ideas are any good.
Very much this.
I'll repeat ad infinitum that there is no solution to the current fixtures impasse until the culture of postponing games until county players return, is reversed.
What the average club player in Ireland needs from the CPA, more than anything, is leadership in this regard. Leadership who are prepared to recognise the root cause of the problem, and implement the process of acceptance.
——
It never fails to amuse/amaze me that clubs will dig their heels in for months waiting for Jonny to come back from county commitments, but will carry on regardless with matches when Jonny then buggers off to America after a couple of club training sessions.
It's a mindset thing. Which means it can be changed with little effort.
It never fails to a amaze me why people think that the county player can't play in his club league or championship game following the weekend of a county championship match, rather than train with the county team all the time until the next game. Your loaded to the county at the clubs expense. Why don't you loaded to the club and county evenly.
The difficulty is more physiological than physical.
County players put in the hard yards all winter and spring with a goal of playing summer football at the highest level.
To then ask them to jump flippantly between club and county, especially in peak season county, it is - in my opinion - more than a touch unfair. Not because of risk of tiredness or injuries (though these are factors), but because asking them to give 100% equally to two causes has to be an emotional drain.
Of course they want to play for their clubs. But during a county championship season, it's surely not just as high on the list of priorities, especially as they progress in the AI series, and dreams come closer to reality, and the intensity required to fulfil that dream requires selfishness.
I was never even remotely good enough at football to put myself on their actual shoes. But anybody who believes that tearing someone in two directions will lead to a fulfilled conclusion in either, is ignoring every rule they've learned in life, and creating a special fantasy case for GAA commitment.
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Encourage the GAA to wrap up the county season as quick as possible. Encourage the GAA to eliminate as many county teams as early as possible in the summer. Play club GAA with gay abandon while your county team progresses, and then with even gayer abandon when they're out.
This is the only way to ensure a regular and fulfilling club season for the 98%.
I don't want to be confrontational but it seems to me you're not following this issue very closely. The CPA are lobbying for exactly what you're saying. Clearly defined club and country seasons. A shorter county season (e.g. no reason why Ulster SFC has to take so long with one game every week).
Clubs are entitltled to THEIR players so no important games should be fixed for times THEIR players aren't going to be available. It's very nuanced and detailed and won't be fixed without open minds and firm decisions.
Also not being confrontational, but wasn't this very thing changed two summers ago? The Ulster Championship is no longer played at a rate of one game per week.
Correct.
We shortened the Inter Co Championships then later added 2 extra football rounds and 3 or 4 extra hurling rounds.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 29, 2019, 03:16:38 PM
Correct.
We shortened the Inter Co Championships then later added 2 extra football rounds and 3 or 4 extra hurling rounds.
The net position for the football was a gain of a couple of weeks for each country board to start their championships. The number of rounds is hardly relevant.
There ye go folks
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/fixture-review-task-force-recommends-redrawing-provinces-to-include-eight-counties-each-968421.html
The detail is here including a link to the full report.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-fixtures-calendar-review-taskforce/ (https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-fixtures-calendar-review-taskforce/)
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/three-football-championship-proposals-put-forward-by-task-force-1.4104767
The Task Force met on 12 occasions. More than 1,300 members and supporters took part in a detailed online survey and 50 written submissions were received on the subject. The Club Players' Association were represented on the task force but withdrew in November in protest at what it said was the likely conservative outcome of the final report.
Main intercounty championship proposals
Option 1: A new provincial championship based on four groups of eight that would involve Ulster and Leinster counties migrating to Connacht and Munster to standardise numbers. The method of this redistribution is not specified but it is suggested that league position could be used.
Option 2: Moving the league to the summer months with provincial championships taking place in the spring on a round-robin basis with Munster and Connacht being played in groups of six and Ulster and Leinster in two groups each of five counties. Again an adjustment mechanism would be needed to determine which Leinster county played in Ulster.
Options 1 and 2 would exclude New York from the senior football championship.
Option 3: Retention of the current trial structure on a permanent basis with the All-Ireland quarter-finals being played on a league basis, the Super 8s.
Tweaks include:
Staging the London and New York Connacht championship matches along with other provincial first rounds rather than on the May bank holiday to accommodate teams' travelling.
Reducing the gap between All-Ireland finals to a week from a fortnight and further tightening the current calendar to create a six-week window for club activity in April and May