I was wondering whether many of you agreed with the article below, and particularly how the message resonates within our own game. I fundamentally believe that we have far too much emphasis on strength/size v skills....
Austin Healey & Gym Monkeys
Austin Healey believes English rugby's downward spiral is partly down to its obsession with physical strength at the expense of basic skills.
Healey says young players are becoming "gym monkeys" who are more worried by bench-press figures than rugby skills.
"The strongest athletes are gymnasts who never go in a gym in their lives," the former England star told BBC Sport.
"It should all be own bodyweight stuff. A lot of our players are too big for their own frames."
Healey believes the gym culture is just one of many problems with the game.
"We need to look at the game differently. Our whole ethos is that rugby's a big-man's sport and that arrogant attitude isn't getting us anywhere," he said.
The Leicester great wants to see an end to the RFU's academy system in order to encourage more free-thinking players.
"We don't need academies - players find their natural level," said Healey.
"You start off at your local club, they realise you're too good for them and recommend you up the chain to someone slightly better, and so on - that's what all of the players of my generation did.
A lot of forwards come to the end of their career, and think 'what am I going to do now?' and so they go into coaching
Former England star Austin Healey
"Keeping young guys with their peers training in the gym turns them into 'gym monkeys'.
"It doesn't allow them to progress and see what they can learn from other people. It really is killing our sport."
Healey, who has demanded the resignation of under-fire England head coach Andy Robinson, thinks the standard of coaching is a major factor in England's demise.
"Robinson is a good tracksuit coach promoted above his abilities and he's the sort of guy who unfortunately is taking up all the coaching roles in this country.," he said.
"A lot of forwards come to the end of their career, and think 'oh my God, what am I going to do now?' and so they go into coaching.
"Those guys know a lot about the game as it is now, but they don't have any idea of what the game's going to be like in the future. They don't have any invention.
"People like Sir Clive Woodward and Brian Ashton - backs basically - are better coaches and more inventive.
"We need to really look at the way we're training - there needs to be a lot more ball-in-hand stuff."
totally agree
i agree totally but if one county does not bulk up they get left behind. So everyone follows suit. Its a vicious circle.
I do agree, we need to be careful how we develop players, however I wouldn't go the other way and demonise gym work either. I think we should try to ensure that some of the best coaches are involved in the under age set up, working with the kids to develop the basic skills to a high standard, we should also consider running under age competitions as leagues rather than championships,this way your u-14's might get to play 10-12 games in a year rather than the 4-5 that many get now. There is still a lot of room in the GAA for gym work, it just needs to be the right kind of weights designed and supervised by a qualified instructor with the requirements of the sport taken into account. As long as it compliments rather than dominates your football/hurling training then it should be beneficial. If we develop the skills first in the kids improving their athleticism as adults should help rather than hinder players.
I think there may be some substance to that view in relation to rugby but surely the recent international rules "battle" would have demonstrated that most of our current crop of top county players are a long way of being over developed. If you look at the TG4 matches (especially Cork V Meath in the late 80s) I think present day players are alot lighter. Obviously Armagh are an exception. Kerry especially seem to have gotten the balance right between physical power and mobility. Alot of this would be down to their trainer under O'Connor - Pat Flanagan.
Springboks have ban in place on any leg work in a gym for years. No-one could say that Os Du Randt has small legs! French forwards employ ex-Foreign Legionnaires deemed expert in bodyweight exercises (press-ups, pull ups, etc.) as conditioning coaches. Body weight exercises build muscle (lean mass) without bulk. French forwards don't appear overly muscle bound as a result. Healy has a a point, for once, - Ever noticed the development of gymnasts.
Also, lack of need for Gyms per se, should keep County Board bean-counters happy!!!!
The english game has allot more problems than too much time in the gym . The RFU has major issues with the clubs over players contracts and their are far to many non english playing in the english game, Look at the names leinster have and yet someone like Luke Fiztgearld still gets to come through . This isnt happening in england as the gaps in squads are beening filled my imports giving the young fella no chance ?
Ps how is this gaa related ?
The first post shoudl explain how it is related to the GAA.
It is very easy to lambast the use of gyms and weights, esp if you do not really know anything about them. From my small knowledge I would say that, as others have said, it is important that the right weights is done. For example I presume it tould be counter productive for a corner forward to bulk up massively and as a result slow down - it would be better for him to be doing toning strenght work that will increase strenght but not neccessarily bulk.
However whatever work in the gym needs to go hand in hand with work with the ball on the pitch. I think this is where todays players are going wrong - spend a few months in the gym but forget how to kick a ball
A few points that need to be said.
-The most important strength for Gaelic Football (bar skills obviously) is leg strength. Pat Flanagan is famously quoted this year "Gaelic Footballers run on their legs not on their arms". The reality is if you are doing the right exercises it should make you faster. I have a fair bit of knowledge of the rugby scene- a lot of those players in England and in some cases in Ireland are plugged to the gills full of amino acids-creatine- daily protein drinks and in some cases anabolic steroids.(i'm not joking). These supplements coupled with 4-5 gym sessioons weekly = the sort of guys who play on the English rugby team. Big brutes with no skill.
- You won't survive Gaelic Football these days without gymwork. But as Healey says this shouldn't be at the expense of the skills which has happened in some cases. It has been a major problem in Dublin until recently. The Dublin football is exceptionally powerful but they are fast also(still didn't win the AI though). The bottom line is the skillful players adds a bit of strength to his frame he is laughing- look at the Gooch. This talk of weights slowing you down makes me laugh- if you do them properly they should make them quicker. But at the end of the day nothing beats skill- look at the all-blacks the most skillful and the most powerful and the quickest to boot.
josey - just incase that was a dig at me i did not say that weights slow you down - i simply said that if the wrong type of weights are done then it could lead to over bulking and as a result slow you down. As i said weights need to be done in a controlled manner with the right programmes adherred to.
I honestly believe Armagh overbulked to the detriment of their mobility and it has caught up on them.
You need strength in the tackle / to break the tackle, strength to drive into the break ball. It doesn't have to be as a trade off for mobility(or skill).
I think that's nonsense Imtommygun. Over doing the gym work hasn't caught up with Armagh, it's mother nature's aging process. Nothing else.
Quote from: Colonel Cool on November 28, 2006, 08:00:49 AM
I think that's nonsense Imtommygun. Over doing the gym work hasn't caught up with Armagh, it's mother nature's aging process. Nothing else.
God, I hope I age like McGeeny then, I'll need to get bigger shirts to cope with my impending biceps.
Quoteplayers in England and in some cases in Ireland are plugged to the gills full of amino acids-creatine- daily protein drinks and in some cases anabolic steroids
i thought they just had ashma. Its very obvious from changing body shapes whose on the stuff and whose not but thewy alway seem to be one step ahead of the Drug testers
Gym work for building core strength to survive the hits
Circuit work and using own body mass exercises for creating 'useable' muscle on the arms and legs
Supervised circuit work is far superior to gym work imho as all the players put in the effort
I wouldn't say Tyrone had a bulky team in 2005. Their speed and handling skills peaked late summer that year. I honestly do believe Armagh's over emphasis on physical robustness cost them late summer since 2004....although one theory which dispells that is the 'bag of sugar' story told by Mickey Harte to his players.
bag of sugar story?
too much emphasis on gym work to the detriment of the skills
Each county or many of the county players all do gym work. I think its because Armagh make a big deal of it....always on about it. They never shut up about it,...look at the size of mc geeney etc...frig sake, can he kick with his right foot???