I've a few scenarios with Black Cards and Blood Subs, which might confuse anyone at a match... including the ref. If anyone knows answers here, please shout.
Using Dublin as an example team for ease of understanding:
1. Early in the game, Kevin McMenamin enters the field as a blood sub, just for a couple of minutes. Dublin then go on to use 5 "real" subs, but not McMenamin. Stephen Cluxton gets a black card for a cynical pull down with just 5 minutes to go. Does the Dub's 6th and final sub now have to be McMenamin?
2. It's a fiery enough game and after 10 minutes, Diarmuid Connolly leaves the field for a few stitches. He's replaced temporarily by Eoghan O'Gara. But the big full-forward's first action sees him take Lee Keegan out by the roots, which is punished by a black card. Connolly still has a stitch to go, so Dublin send Michael Darragh McAuley into the fray. Is it safe to assume McAuley can also be declared as a blood sub?
3. It's a proper battle out there, and just 5 minutes into the second half, Dublin have been forced to use all their 6 subs. Jonny Cooper is on the end of some (most-likely deserved) retribution, and has blood flowing out of his nose. The ref, of course, asks him to leave the play. Dublin have used their 6 subs. Can they bring in a blood sub, or is it tough luck?
4. Dublin are 9 points down in the final quarter, and staring at championship defeat for the first time in over 3 years. They respond the old-fashioned way, and go about cutting Kerry down like trees. Poor aul Philly McMahon didn't expect James O'Donaghue to respond so ferociously, and is dealt a heavy cut just above the eye. Off he trots for a quick clean up, and Dublin (who've only one sub left) bring on the returning Rory O'Carroll as a blood sub. Being a touch off the pace, O'Carroll trips up a goalbound Paul Geaney and incurs a black card. Of course this means O'Carroll has to leave the play. Can we assume that McMahon is also now barred from the action through no (well, very little) fault of his own, and Dublin are finishing with 14 men?
Am really looking forward to this match now
When was the last time there was a damn good dirty match in Croker?
this fuddin MMA has a lot to answer for let me tell yis
I had to check the rulebook to make sure on the first two so it would be wrong of me to answer. I knew myself I wasn't clear on this area of the rules and one thing I believed was based on fiction obviously.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2018, 12:36:55 PM
I've a few scenarios with Black Cards and Blood Subs, which might confuse anyone at a match... including the ref. If anyone knows answers here, please shout.
Using Dublin as an example team for ease of understanding:
1. Early in the game, Kevin McMenamin enters the field as a blood sub, just for a couple of minutes. Dublin then go on to use 5 "real" subs, but not McMenamin. Stephen Cluxton gets a black card for a cynical pull down with just 5 minutes to go. Does the Dub's 6th and final sub now have to be McMenamin?
2. It's a fiery enough game and after 10 minutes, Diarmuid Connolly leaves the field for a few stitches. He's replaced temporarily by Eoghan O'Gara. But the big full-forward's first action sees him take Lee Keegan out by the roots, which is punished by a black card. Connolly still has a stitch to go, so Dublin send Michael Darragh McAuley into the fray. Is it safe to assume McAuley can also be declared as a blood sub?
3. It's a proper battle out there, and just 5 minutes into the second half, Dublin have been forced to use all their 6 subs. Jonny Cooper is on the end of some (most-likely deserved) retribution, and has blood flowing out of his nose. The ref, of course, asks him to leave the play. Dublin have used their 6 subs. Can they bring in a blood sub, or is it tough luck?
4. Dublin are 9 points down in the final quarter, and staring at championship defeat for the first time in over 3 years. They respond the old-fashioned way, and go about cutting Kerry down like trees. Poor aul Philly McMahon didn't expect James O'Donaghue to respond so ferociously, and is dealt a heavy cut just above the eye. Off he trots for a quick clean up, and Dublin (who've only one sub left) bring on the returning Rory O'Carroll as a blood sub. Being a touch off the pace, O'Carroll trips up a goalbound Paul Geaney and incurs a black card. Of course this means O'Carroll has to leave the play. Can we assume that McMahon is also now barred from the action through no (well, very little) fault of his own, and Dublin are finishing with 14 men?
Not a ref and without googling I'd say:
No
Yes
Blood sub allowed
Down to 14
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2018, 12:36:55 PM
I've a few scenarios with Black Cards and Blood Subs, which might confuse anyone at a match... including the ref. If anyone knows answers here, please shout.
Using Dublin as an example team for ease of understanding:
1. Early in the game, Kevin McMenamin enters the field as a blood sub, just for a couple of minutes. Dublin then go on to use 5 "real" subs, but not McMenamin. Stephen Cluxton gets a black card for a cynical pull down with just 5 minutes to go. Does the Dub's 6th and final sub now have to be McMenamin?
2. It's a fiery enough game and after 10 minutes, Diarmuid Connolly leaves the field for a few stitches. He's replaced temporarily by Eoghan O'Gara. But the big full-forward's first action sees him take Lee Keegan out by the roots, which is punished by a black card. Connolly still has a stitch to go, so Dublin send Michael Darragh McAuley into the fray. Is it safe to assume McAuley can also be declared as a blood sub?
3. It's a proper battle out there, and just 5 minutes into the second half, Dublin have been forced to use all their 6 subs. Jonny Cooper is on the end of some (most-likely deserved) retribution, and has blood flowing out of his nose. The ref, of course, asks him to leave the play. Dublin have used their 6 subs. Can they bring in a blood sub, or is it tough luck?
4. Dublin are 9 points down in the final quarter, and staring at championship defeat for the first time in over 3 years. They respond the old-fashioned way, and go about cutting Kerry down like trees. Poor aul Philly McMahon didn't expect James O'Donaghue to respond so ferociously, and is dealt a heavy cut just above the eye. Off he trots for a quick clean up, and Dublin (who've only one sub left) bring on the returning Rory O'Carroll as a blood sub. Being a touch off the pace, O'Carroll trips up a goalbound Paul Geaney and incurs a black card. Of course this means O'Carroll has to leave the play. Can we assume that McMahon is also now barred from the action through no (well, very little) fault of his own, and Dublin are finishing with 14 men?
Done a few referee courses and refereed a few games
1-blood sub doesnt count as an offical sub so a blood sub could stay on all game and the tea, can still use 6 subs
2-yes
3-blood sub is allowed and could stay on for rest of game
4-mcmahon goes of as a blood sub so that still leaves 1 sub which is used whem o'carrol gets black carded
But they all depemd on how many black cards were used before that happened as yes you have 6 subs but you can only use 3 of them for black cards so if u get 4 players black carded you are the down a player
Quote from: Predictor on January 22, 2018, 07:40:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2018, 12:36:55 PM
I've a few scenarios with Black Cards and Blood Subs, which might confuse anyone at a match... including the ref. If anyone knows answers here, please shout.
Using Dublin as an example team for ease of understanding:
1. Early in the game, Kevin McMenamin enters the field as a blood sub, just for a couple of minutes. Dublin then go on to use 5 "real" subs, but not McMenamin. Stephen Cluxton gets a black card for a cynical pull down with just 5 minutes to go. Does the Dub's 6th and final sub now have to be McMenamin?
2. It's a fiery enough game and after 10 minutes, Diarmuid Connolly leaves the field for a few stitches. He's replaced temporarily by Eoghan O'Gara. But the big full-forward's first action sees him take Lee Keegan out by the roots, which is punished by a black card. Connolly still has a stitch to go, so Dublin send Michael Darragh McAuley into the fray. Is it safe to assume McAuley can also be declared as a blood sub?
3. It's a proper battle out there, and just 5 minutes into the second half, Dublin have been forced to use all their 6 subs. Jonny Cooper is on the end of some (most-likely deserved) retribution, and has blood flowing out of his nose. The ref, of course, asks him to leave the play. Dublin have used their 6 subs. Can they bring in a blood sub, or is it tough luck?
4. Dublin are 9 points down in the final quarter, and staring at championship defeat for the first time in over 3 years. They respond the old-fashioned way, and go about cutting Kerry down like trees. Poor aul Philly McMahon didn't expect James O'Donaghue to respond so ferociously, and is dealt a heavy cut just above the eye. Off he trots for a quick clean up, and Dublin (who've only one sub left) bring on the returning Rory O'Carroll as a blood sub. Being a touch off the pace, O'Carroll trips up a goalbound Paul Geaney and incurs a black card. Of course this means O'Carroll has to leave the play. Can we assume that McMahon is also now barred from the action through no (well, very little) fault of his own, and Dublin are finishing with 14 men?
Done a few referee courses and refereed a few games
1-blood sub doesnt count as an offical sub so a blood sub could stay on all game and the tea, can still use 6 subs
2-yes
3-blood sub is allowed and could stay on for rest of game
4-mcmahon goes of as a blood sub so that still leaves 1 sub which is used whem o'carrol gets black carded
But they all depemd on how many black cards were used before that happened as yes you have 6 subs but you can only use 3 of them for black cards so if u get 4 players black carded you are the down a player
I believe the third receiver of a black card on a team gets the line, open to correction. Happened in a match I was at.
1st black card gets replaced
2nd gets replaced
3rd gets replaced
4th or more black card doesnt get replaced so team is down a player
I'm a ref and this is a nightmare at county level, more so than club level as most clubs struggle in the league to get 5 subs!
Blood sub rule is too wide I believe. There should be some method/rule/time limit where a team has to declare that the injured player is incapable of coming back so is a permanent sub. Dubs used it to our advantage a couple of years ago v Mayo when Fitzsimons came on as sub for O'Carroll (I think) after 5 mins and stayed on the whole game as a temp blood sub. Dublin were then able to use one extra sub, because they never had to declare that O'Carroll was banjaxed and couldn't return.
Although I'd be in favour of unlimited roll-on/roll-off subs based on a matchday squad of 21/22, subject to a sub can't kick a free with his first kick to avoid a NFL style kicker role.
What happens if a blood sub is sent off
I think the person thet were brought on for can only get back on as a substitute.
Actually think i saw this once but can't remember game.