Referees

[guevara]

As someone has posted....the problem seems to be Refs have been stripped of any use of common sense or their own judgement & instead The GAA is promoting idiots who tick boxes on some assesment sheet probably designed by a guy that has never played at a high standard of the game.

If todays rules were in place in the 90's then teams wouldve been finishing matches with half a team. I accept that in the past a certain amount of thuggery was passed as "being hard". Im glad the GAA have stamped this out as there is no place for it on any pitch in the Country.
But in my view we have got carried away with ourselves. Persistant fouling is not 2 genuine challenges or even 2 fouls. Unless the fouls are malicious & dangerous then persistant fouling is 5/6 fouls. The Ref has gotta take into context as well the area of the field the fouls occurring, whether deliberate or not & number of fouls that player may have already committed.

But at the same time a certain amount of physicality should be allowed. Goalkeepers for an example are far too protected in my opinion...they already have the advantage of the Square Ball Rule. Yesterday Cluxton fumbled a high ball, which he then managed to get stuck between his legs & whats the Ref do? Blows a free out before the attacker had barely got near him. A Keeper once outside the square should be allowed to be tackled like any other player.
Theres nothing wrong with a good hard hit o shoulder as long as its not dangerous or late. Gone are the days when a good solid challenge would get a huge roar outta the supporters & drive their team on.

But probably the biggest factor in all of the arguments about Refs is inconsistency & the GAA's refusal to overturn some decisions that are clear as day. Refs are bound to be sick of the amount of shite they are getting & looking for a clear set of directives from above outlining whats what. Not a case of "Ok lets clamp down on diving & feigning injury this week as The Sunday Game are giving us a hard time over it recently".

[blewuporstuffed]

good post

[Milltown Row2]

Any official referees on the board? I think you can have a view on the rules and how you would like them enforced but until you are doing the job regularly then i think you cant really give off about them.

Try and referee games, and i don't mean filling in on kids games or training matches, Harder than you think

[Armagh Cúchulainns]

Any official referees on the board? I think you can have a view on the rules and how you would like them enforced but until you are doing the job regularly then i think you cant really give off about them.

Try and referee games, and i don't mean filling in on kids games or training matches, Harder than you think

Interesting thread.

Im a referee in Armagh - Hurling primarily but also do football.
Hurling ref with Ulster Council 3rd year of experience and this year was drafted onto support squad for National referees.

I think the basic problem at higher level is the assessors.
E.g - i was assessed this year in a league game the run uip to championship in ulster.
I was marked down ten points for not putting umpires in white coats. (monaghan were playing so i asked my umpires to wear club colours yellow and black so i could see them clearer.)
In the same assessment the referee said my 'calls' in general were excellent with good application of the advantage rule, yet positioning was marked down? does good positioning not result in good calls and vice versa.

From wathcing the national level games this year i would be of the opinion that referees selectors committees/panels in Ulster/National are more interested in the referees level of fitness than their ability to control and actually referee a game.

As i say ive only been at the whistling for a few years but a common problem i find especially at club level is that referees do not talk enough to players/coaches and other referees to ascertain any level of consistency.

Plus we're all bollixes!!

[Applesisapples]

The purpose of this thread is not to put the boot into Ref's. I think from what you are saying the emphasis on Reffing is not on common sense but on fitness. I would imagine though Reffing hurling you would need a bike no matter how fit you are. I don't think refferees at all levels get enough support to help them reach equitable decisions. I would be mindful also that without ref's we'd have no games. That said some referee's attitudes and the way they speak to players leaves a lot to be desired. As a ref what do you think could be done to help? I guess as a club ref it may be a little more basic in terms of support, such as another neutral official at the game?

[Main Street]

But at the same time a certain amount of physicality should be allowed. Goalkeepers for an example are far too protected in my opinion...they already have the advantage of the Square Ball Rule. Yesterday Cluxton fumbled a high ball, which he then managed to get stuck between his legs & whats the Ref do? Blows a free out before the attacker had barely got near him. A Keeper once outside the square should be allowed to be tackled like any other player.

The ball stuck between his legs is still in the goalkeeper's possession?
The ref blew for a free after Cluxton was clearly charged at by a Kildare player.

In the USF just before half-time, a Donegal player  breaking out from his own half was crudely rugby tackled by a Tyrone player. McQuillan blew for a free, but the cynical foul deserved a yellow card, instead McQuillan could be seen laughing, sharing a humourous intercourse with the Tyrone player.
We have often seen this type of cynical play (a Tyrone speciality), repeatedly slowing down the opposing team working the ball out of their own half.
I think only Coldrick takes an appropriate dim view of it

[PAULD123]

But at the same time a certain amount of physicality should be allowed. Goalkeepers for an example are far too protected in my opinion...they already have the advantage of the Square Ball Rule. Yesterday Cluxton fumbled a high ball, which he then managed to get stuck between his legs & whats the Ref do? Blows a free out before the attacker had barely got near him. A Keeper once outside the square should be allowed to be tackled like any other player.

The ball stuck between his legs is still in the goalkeeper's possession?
The ref blew for a free after Cluxton was clearly charged at by a Kildare player.

In the USF just before half-time, a Donegal player  breaking out from his own half was crudely rugby tackled by a Tyrone player. McQuillan blew for a free, but the cynical foul deserved a yellow card, instead McQuillan could be seen laughing, sharing a humourous intercourse with the Tyrone player.
We have often seen this type of cynical play (a Tyrone speciality), repeatedly slowing down the opposing team working the ball out of their own half.
I think only Coldrick takes an appropriate dim view of it

In the first game Donegal slowed down every single Antrim free kick. Antrim even appealed to the referee and he mostly just told them to get on with it. Slowing down play is a killer for many teams attack. It should be taken more seriously and I'd like to see a lot more frees advanced from around the 50 into more scoreable positions.

So if Tyrone slowed down Donegal then it was nothing they aren't inclined to doing themselves

[guevara]

Watch the game again....Cluxton has one hand on the ball between his legs. He gets barged by his own player yet the Ref cant get the whistle to his mouth quick enough. In my opinion if the keeper has the ball in one hand then your entitled to tackle him exactly like any other player.
The best Refs I have come accross would be fellas that have played the game at decent Club level & know how to handle certain situations.
A Ref who will talk to players & explain his decisions will get far more respect than some guy running round the field blowing everything & taking the "Im the Ref & always right" approach. Dare question their decision & they will fire about Yellow cards like confetti.

[Milltown Row2]

Watch the game again....Cluxton has one hand on the ball between his legs. He gets barged by his own player yet the Ref cant get the whistle to his mouth quick enough. In my opinion if the keeper has the ball in one hand then your entitled to tackle him exactly like any other player.
The best Refs I have come accross would be fellas that have played the game at decent Club level & know how to handle certain situations.
A Ref who will talk to players & explain his decisions will get far more respect than some guy running round the field blowing everything & taking the "Im the Ref & always right" approach. Dare question their decision & they will fire about Yellow cards like confetti.

Its funny, some say the referees talk too much during the game to players and others want them to talk more to the players and coaches!!

Sitting in the house watching the game from different camera angles will always give you a different view of a 'foul' 'non foul' whatever the case may be. As a referee you can't see everything, a player may block your vision (but it's the referees fault for not positioning right ) A referee who has played the game will have his own take on the rules some too fussy, others like the game to be physical.

They will never suit both sets of supporters and worst of all they will never keep the Assessor happy. Bloody joke if you ask me about the Assessors, again probably never played game at a high enough standard to understand the game (Thats my All Ireland Final appearance gone )

[cadhlancian]

TBH, its the assessors in the stands that are the problems. Referees are now reffing games the way the boys in the stand want it reffed.  Boyos sitting up in the stand , writing down what a ref should/could have done, whilst the hoor wouldnt know a ball if it was pumped or stuffed .!I believe that the rules should be used more in a guideline context, and that refs should use them accordingly. They should be allowed to ref the game the way they see fit, and a combination of common sense and using the "rules" as guidelines should see better games. Currently , referees interpretation of the rules vary anyway, so why not have a select group of good , knowledgeable people and let them get this sorted- before the boys in the stand do any more damage

[tonto1888]

But at the same time a certain amount of physicality should be allowed. Goalkeepers for an example are far too protected in my opinion...they already have the advantage of the Square Ball Rule. Yesterday Cluxton fumbled a high ball, which he then managed to get stuck between his legs & whats the Ref do? Blows a free out before the attacker had barely got near him. A Keeper once outside the square should be allowed to be tackled like any other player.

The ball stuck between his legs is still in the goalkeeper's possession?
The ref blew for a free after Cluxton was clearly charged at by a Kildare player.

In the USF just before half-time, a Donegal player  breaking out from his own half was crudely rugby tackled by a Tyrone player. McQuillan blew for a free, but the cynical foul deserved a yellow card, instead McQuillan could be seen laughing, sharing a humourous intercourse with the Tyrone player.
We have often seen this type of cynical play (a Tyrone speciality), repeatedly slowing down the opposing team working the ball out of their own half.
I think only Coldrick takes an appropriate dim view of it

In the first game Donegal slowed down every single Antrim free kick. Antrim even appealed to the referee and he mostly just told them to get on with it. Slowing down play is a killer for many teams attack. It should be taken more seriously and I'd like to see a lot more frees advanced from around the 50 into more scoreable positions.

So if Tyrone slowed down Donegal then it was nothing they aren't inclined to doing themselves

doesnt make it right though

[Applesisapples]

But at the same time a certain amount of physicality should be allowed. Goalkeepers for an example are far too protected in my opinion...they already have the advantage of the Square Ball Rule. Yesterday Cluxton fumbled a high ball, which he then managed to get stuck between his legs & whats the Ref do? Blows a free out before the attacker had barely got near him. A Keeper once outside the square should be allowed to be tackled like any other player.

The ball stuck between his legs is still in the goalkeeper's possession?
The ref blew for a free after Cluxton was clearly charged at by a Kildare player.

In the USF just before half-time, a Donegal player  breaking out from his own half was crudely rugby tackled by a Tyrone player. McQuillan blew for a free, but the cynical foul deserved a yellow card, instead McQuillan could be seen laughing, sharing a humourous intercourse with the Tyrone player.
We have often seen this type of cynical play (a Tyrone speciality), repeatedly slowing down the opposing team working the ball out of their own half.
I think only Coldrick takes an appropriate dim view of it

Watch Cluxton again, it was his own man.

[Armagh Cúchulainns]

Watch the game again....Cluxton has one hand on the ball between his legs. He gets barged by his own player yet the Ref cant get the whistle to his mouth quick enough. In my opinion if the keeper has the ball in one hand then your entitled to tackle him exactly like any other player.
The best Refs I have come accross would be fellas that have played the game at decent Club level & know how to handle certain situations.
A Ref who will talk to players & explain his decisions will get far more respect than some guy running round the field blowing everything & taking the "Im the Ref & always right" approach. Dare question their decision & they will fire about Yellow cards like confetti.

Its funny, some say the referees talk too much during the game to players and others want them to talk more to the players and coaches!!

Sitting in the house watching the game from different camera angles will always give you a different view of a 'foul' 'non foul' whatever the case may be. As a referee you can't see everything, a player may block your vision (but it's the referees fault for not positioning right ) A referee who has played the game will have his own take on the rules some too fussy, others like the game to be physical.

They will never suit both sets of supporters and worst of all they will never keep the Assessor happy. Bloody joke if you ask me about the Assessors, again probably never played game at a high enough standard to understand the game (Thats my All Ireland Final appearance gone )

When i talked about talking to players - what i mean to say is i talk to them not down to them or at them, i let the players know what i look out for (rolling ball pickups etc.) and what im gonna let go.

Take the last football game i refereed - pissin wet night with grass that was slightly too long.
I told the captains before the game
- no sliding into tackles as it can be tempting to do so in the wet
- given the weather/conditions the player playing the ball will be given the advantage
- When a frees given i personally like to see the ball moved on so move out of the way unless im booking somebody and let the man play the ball.
I feel that if you talk to players before games the playyers appreciate it and 'respect' you more for it.
The problem in armagh and beyond is that too many referees talk down to players from their cloud of hot air and self importance

Also at club games the job of referee is made hard by eejits calling lines or doing umpires who are that biased it would disgust you.
A referee coould be doing an excellent job in a game and then some p***k calls the wrong decision - who does the crowd get onto more - the referee!

[Joxer]

Watch the game again....Cluxton has one hand on the ball between his legs. He gets barged by his own player yet the Ref cant get the whistle to his mouth quick enough. In my opinion if the keeper has the ball in one hand then your entitled to tackle him exactly like any other player.
The best Refs I have come accross would be fellas that have played the game at decent Club level & know how to handle certain situations.
A Ref who will talk to players & explain his decisions will get far more respect than some guy running round the field blowing everything & taking the "Im the Ref & always right" approach. Dare question their decision & they will fire about Yellow cards like confetti.

Its funny, some say the referees talk too much during the game to players and others want them to talk more to the players and coaches!!

Sitting in the house watching the game from different camera angles will always give you a different view of a 'foul' 'non foul' whatever the case may be. As a referee you can't see everything, a player may block your vision (but it's the referees fault for not positioning right ) A referee who has played the game will have his own take on the rules some too fussy, others like the game to be physical.

They will never suit both sets of supporters and worst of all they will never keep the Assessor happy. Bloody joke if you ask me about the Assessors, again probably never played game at a high enough standard to understand the game (Thats my All Ireland Final appearance gone )

When i talked about talking to players - what i mean to say is i talk to them not down to them or at them, i let the players know what i look out for (rolling ball pickups etc.) and what im gonna let go.

Take the last football game i refereed - pissin wet night with grass that was slightly too long.
I told the captains before the game
- no sliding into tackles as it can be tempting to do so in the wet
- given the weather/conditions the player playing the ball will be given the advantage
- When a frees given i personally like to see the ball moved on so move out of the way unless im booking somebody and let the man play the ball.
I feel that if you talk to players before games the playyers appreciate it and 'respect' you more for it.
The problem in armagh and beyond is that too many referees talk down to players from their cloud of hot air and self importance

Also at club games the job of referee is made hard by eejits calling lines or doing umpires who are that biased it would disgust you.
A referee coould be doing an excellent job in a game and then some p***k calls the wrong decision - who does the crowd get onto more - the referee!

Overall AC,  how would you rate the refereeing in Armagh?  Would you agree that there are certain referees who are total ego trips? 

[Applesisapples]

Mixed bag, if AC is who I think he is he's a decent and pragmatic Ref. There are others who need to look at the way the conduct themselves, and I'm not referring to poor decision making. That said I don't like to see the sort of vitriol we had posted about named Armagh referee's who at the end of the day are doing their best. there are some crap Ref's in Armagh who are honest and decent in their approach to the game, players and officials and you can dispair at the decision but everyone knows what they are getting. A bad ref is better than no ref and as long as he is consistent then its a level playing field. Most spectators/players/officials only see the things that effect their own team and thats where problems start. We need to get more like rugby where the Ref is respected no matter what his performance. A diificulty is that right from U12 we coach children in the GAA to call the ref's all sorts and the type of win at all costs mentality we saw in Beragh becomes ingrained.