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I dont think Mickey Harte will be too upset that Derry are out of the Ulster. They have the medals from the last 2 years in their pockets. Its all about SAM for them now. They get a nice 4 week break to get themselves ready. I would not be writing them off at all.

100% correct.

I really hope this is the case.
The weight of expectation will have lightened a bit after that defeat.
But time will tell what it has done to the players in terms of confidence. MH needs to learn to change tactics in-game if we are to have a serious chance at it.

This sad case is just an example of the norm with regards to policing at that time and for decades before it.
Makes it all the more satisfying how the political landscape has changed here since that time.

The Brown family have had a lot to endure and unfortunately for them it's difficult to see how they ever get closure let alone justice.
British government, even today despite the changes, only looking out for themselves and their own rather than everyone they are meant to govern equally. I can only assume some senior tory/military names would be in the frame should the detail come out.

I remember at the time it sent chills through the whole  nationalist community. Just listening to Talkback and Trevor Birney talking about and how attacking someone like Sean Brown was a deliberate ploy as he was decent and could not be associated with any paramilitary organisation. It was purely to put fear and Terror through a whole community by striking at its centre.

We had just won the AI and had beaten Bellaghy in the Ulster final before Christmas 1996. There was a crew of us living in Belfast and we had close relationships on and off the field with a lot of the Bellaghy lads. It struck hard. I remember travelling home at the time and we regularly changed out pick up spots etc. Going to matches in Lurgan and that was always a concern as well. How the f**k was that normal? 

Unfortunately we normalised it at the time and adopted

My dad handed me the book The Shankill butchers when it came out

Made me read it before I headed out that weekend, needless to say that put the willies up me for that period of heading out! 

Absolutely horrible book. Really tough. I read the book called committee. Really opened my eyes as a teenager growing up.

Only policeman you trust is a dead one.

Haven't read the Shankill butchers but did read the committee.
Certain well know  car dealerships at the fore.
If I remember right they have the oath taken by orange order members in the back cover too.

For all the blather about "Michelle and Emma" and a bright future for NI, it's 2024 and the British are still trying to suppress the truth.  25 people involved in this murder, most of whom were loyalist touts, RUC and UDR members.

Excellent programme that showed the devastation visited on families during the Troubles.

Is Michelle O'Neill entitled to see the un-redacted versions of those reports?
As head of state, i'd imagine she is?

It's been clear for a long time that this is just another case of state collusion/involvement in loyalist murders of innocent catholics.
I remember this murder vividly - it spread fear across the GAA community in particular.

Donegal v Tyrone fixed for Celtic park. Probably sensible, I just hope the Ulster Council don't oversell the bluebell terrace again. Last weekend felt dangerously overcrowded.

As mentioned already, what a weekend of football that was. 

Derry/Donegal was an intense a game as you will see. 
Thought the two in the middle for Derry were quiet all day and either of them being subdued can only mean bad things for Derry.  A month off to process and learn, so you would think there will be a response to that. 

Donegal were brilliant and got everything spot on tactically.  A high intense gameplan and Derry had no answers.  The only issue is, they only have a week to do their homework on Tyrone and whether they can match that intensity with the quick turnaround remains to be seen. 

Full credit to Cavan, a classic case of throwing the shackles off and going at it nearly got them there.  Tyrone had enough experience to get them over the line.  Again tired bodies will count against them against Donegal.  Hard to see them winning giving how both teams played. 

I think you're giving Derry too much credit there. Donegal bossed the game in every position from the first minute to the last. It was a 6 point hammering.
Derry were very flat, tactically outthought and seemed to be playing like we might have done 3/4 years ago. But a lot of that was down to how good Donegal were.

Tyrone/Cavan are pretty much on a par I believe.
If Donegal play as well again next weekend, they'll have not trouble with Tyrone, the question is can they motivate themselves to that level again?

I'd expect Armagh to beat Down, but it won't be the facile victory some are predicting. Down will compete physically, if they can get their scoring boots on they could rattle Armagh.

Based on the weekends games, Donegal are best placed to win Ulster imo.

Big question for Derry is was this just a blip with eye off the ball? Or have the wheels fallen off under Harte after the high of winning the league.

That's a wake up call for Derry as I feel some complacency had crept in.
Donegal might only have won by 6, but it was a hammering.
Tactically donegal got it right, but what really annoys me is how flat we were compared to donegal.
Donegal won nearly every break ball and tbh the goals game from mistakes in the midfield sector or from us not winning break ball.
Lynch getting abuse, but we don't normally make mistake like that so he was under much more pressure. Yes he made mistakes, but I don't think a single derry player had a good game.

Donegal won every position on the field, tackling was ferocious whereas derry hardly laid a hand on a donegal player.
I'd been saying during the week I was worried about this game, but I didn't see it being as bad as that.
Donegal fully deserved the win and only time will tell how derry react, or if they can.
I said it at the time of his appointment, but Harte will either be the best or the worst decision ever. Based on yesterday, it's not looking like a great decision.

Donegal head and shoulders better than anything in ulster based on that game. Fitter, hungrier, stronger than Derry.
It's hard to tell if we were so bad as donegal were so good or if we made them look better than they as as we were so poor.

I'd like to see donegal go on to win ulster now.

Ahh it's just the "Nordies against change" bellyaching again.

The move from 21 aside to 17 aside was the start of the slippery slope I tell ya.

I am one "Nordie" who has no issue with change - but change the things that are not working.
Ulster Championship works - so why change it? (Antrim/Fermanagh might disagree granted)
Change what needs to be changed in other provinces to improve their championship.
Personally I don't like the group stages and didn't like the Super 8s.
Revert to back door maybe, but like I've said before, there's no magic solution for it all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68851378

Ukrainian refugees coming this way and we are sending kids to Ukraine for brain surgery.

Fair play to the mother.
I hope it works out for the child. Does ask the question around the capability of NHS though.

[No Murphy on the bench??]

Derry going with the same team as the league final.

No real surprise didn't think they'd risk McKinless from the start and he's a great impact sub.

No Murphy on the bench??

Wondered about that myself. Unless he's injured maybe?
It's almost full strength starting lineup with only McKinless missing out. If he's not fully fit, I wouldn't risk him at all at any stage, unless we really need him.

[Really in a match we didn't lose]

Really in a match we didn't lose we shouldn't worry about a soccer penalty shoot out because of the GAA imposing it to free up Croke park for handy money, strange logic.

Yeah yous did.
Worse than that, it's a match you should have won and had every chance of winning, but bottled it.
Derry in the week leading up to the final had an unprecedented level of upheaval and that was evident in their performance. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
We had Brendan Rogers on a black card at the end of normal time and the and most of the first part of extra time. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
Yous were a point up towards the end of extra time and Rian O'Neill gave away a stupid needless free giving Derry the opportunity to draw level - and they took it. All Armagh had to do was keep their discipline and they probably win. But they didn't.
Armagh were given yet another chance to win in penalties - but bottled it again.

How many chances to yous need to be given to win a game before you stop moaning about not losing?
It was a losing performance from Armagh all day when they should absolutely have won. And you're complaining about penalties? If it went to a replay we'd have won again too. 

Maybe that's strange logic too!    

So, silliness aside, I'm looking forward to the game against Donegal with equal measures of excitement and fear - proper championship game. I really hope we get an opportunity to contest another Ulster final - we haven't played Down in a final for along time   

I don't agree with the narrative that Armagh should have won. We led that game the whole way through normal time, we were 2 points up on more than one occasion in the last 10 minutes of normal time. I remember Brendan Rogers fisted an easy one wide that would have put us 3 up in normal time with not long left and it would have been game over. Armagh were chasing us the whole game, had their chances to win it too in the end but from the position we were in we should have closed that game out in normal time.

Did you not see all my wee smilies? lol.

[Really in a match we didn't lose]

Really in a match we didn't lose we shouldn't worry about a soccer penalty shoot out because of the GAA imposing it to free up Croke park for handy money, strange logic.

Yeah yous did.
Worse than that, it's a match you should have won and had every chance of winning, but bottled it.
Derry in the week leading up to the final had an unprecedented level of upheaval and that was evident in their performance. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
We had Brendan Rogers on a black card at the end of normal time and the and most of the first part of extra time. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
Yous were a point up towards the end of extra time and Rian O'Neill gave away a stupid needless free giving Derry the opportunity to draw level - and they took it. All Armagh had to do was keep their discipline and they probably win. But they didn't.
Armagh were given yet another chance to win in penalties - but bottled it again.

How many chances to yous need to be given to win a game before you stop moaning about not losing?
It was a losing performance from Armagh all day when they should absolutely have won. And you're complaining about penalties? If it went to a replay we'd have won again too. 

Maybe that's strange logic too!    

So, silliness aside, I'm looking forward to the game against Donegal with equal measures of excitement and fear - proper championship game. I really hope we get an opportunity to contest another Ulster final - we haven't played Down in a final for along time   

Was that free the one where McGuigan took a bite out of him or was that a different incident?

What bite? I didn't see any bite. Neither did the officials. So no idea what you're talking about.

[Really in a match we didn't lose]

Really in a match we didn't lose we shouldn't worry about a soccer penalty shoot out because of the GAA imposing it to free up Croke park for handy money, strange logic.

Yeah yous did.
Worse than that, it's a match you should have won and had every chance of winning, but bottled it.
Derry in the week leading up to the final had an unprecedented level of upheaval and that was evident in their performance. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
We had Brendan Rogers on a black card at the end of normal time and the and most of the first part of extra time. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
Yous were a point up towards the end of extra time and Rian O'Neill gave away a stupid needless free giving Derry the opportunity to draw level - and they took it. All Armagh had to do was keep their discipline and they probably win. But they didn't.
Armagh were given yet another chance to win in penalties - but bottled it again.

How many chances to yous need to be given to win a game before you stop moaning about not losing?
It was a losing performance from Armagh all day when they should absolutely have won. And you're complaining about penalties? If it went to a replay we'd have won again too. 

Maybe that's strange logic too!    

So, silliness aside, I'm looking forward to the game against Donegal with equal measures of excitement and fear - proper championship game. I really hope we get an opportunity to contest another Ulster final - we haven't played Down in a final for along time   

[And if Donegal were to leapfrog us]

Without getting into the penalties argument. Still think if Derry were to beat us in normal/extra time it signifies a step back. If Derry have improved so much then why havent we? And if Donegal were to leapfrog us then thats a poor reflection for a team in really the first year of its rebuild.

Donegal were in the final 2 years ago and Derry just beat them.
They had a poor year last year with Murphy leaving and new management - but the ship has steadied and management is at a high level. I feel Donegal are getting back to where they were 2 years ago - which was already ahead of Armagh. That's why I'd be concerned about playing them this weekend.
Armagh could beat Derry/Donegal/Down, but I would be more confident from a Derry pov of playing Armagh than Donegal.

[forget about this draw nonsense, they beat us hence they are the defending champions]

Armagh season imo hinges on some silverware and the only thing left open to them is an Ulster title, should they get beat by Down or lose an Ulster Final but achieve a step further than last few years in the All Ireland - will that be a success?

Would have to be seen as a step backwards wouldnt it?

If we lose to Down its a disaster. Looking at potential final opponents- we beat Cavan last year easily so you'd want to be doing the same, we drew with Derry so losing to them would be a backward step, Donegal were shit last year so questions would need asked if they managed to leapfrog us with a new manager. Wouldnt even want to contemplate losing to Tyrone!

if we get to the final and were beat, again (forget about this draw nonsense, they beat us hence they are the defending champions), by Derry it wouldnt be a step back in my eyes.
Arguably last year was a failure by Armagh given we had played in a higher division and the shenanigans around derry in te lead up to the final. This year, again presuming it is us and derry in the final, derry go in as league champions with a multiple all ireland winning manager and we, well, we dont. Thye played at a higher level than us all year also.

Though it really isn't nonsense they won a penalty shoot out based on rules introduced by Croke Park to compress the GAA season under the guise of Club Welfare  (what has a penalty shoot out got to do with a GAA match),  but really for the leasing of Croke Park over the summer as a business venture.  That aside another year under Geezer with nothing to show would be a failure.

Derry won based on the rules of the game.
Whether or not you agree with the rules is up to you but result is there. Derry beat Armagh.
Remains to be see if we can do it again. At the minute I'll be happy if we beat Donegal.

There honestly is no weight of expectation from Derry fans that I'm aware of, I think coming from years of false dawns we now always expect the worst but doesn't stop us from hoping for the best.