The IRISH RUGBY thread

Started by Donnellys Hollow, October 27, 2009, 05:26:16 PM

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magpie seanie

Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 11:58:05 AM
In the northern hemisphere, rugby is a game of attrition. Bosh , bosh, bosh.
Players are much bulkier than they used to be. So the hits are harder.
The concussions are scary. No sport is worth brain damage.

Rugby is trying to do something about it, what is the GAA doing, should that not be more your focus now? GAA is miles behind the ball here.

The risks involved in gaelic games for this type of damage are much less than in rugby. That's blatantly obvious. GAA needs to do more admittedly but nothing fundamental like rugby needs to still do.

I'll be interested to see what the 6 nations holds.....some of the games in recent years have been absolutely brutal physically.

johnneycool

Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 18, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 08:34:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 08:24:50 AM
Chris Henry says signing the steroid South African is unacceptable. But look at the size of Henry. He reminds me of those cheap chickens bred for their fillets. Size FF . Organic chickens might be a B.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/it-is-unacceptable-ireland-international-hits-out-at-signing-of-gerbrandt-grobler-36501599.html

How big was Chris Henry when he was 20? I doubt he took any shortcuts, I say doubt because who the f**k knows really! Look at the size of some of the Galway hurlers!!!


Can roids make a 20 something year old taller?

Galway hurlers are lean but not bulky in the way a Cian Healy would be.

Ha! My sport is clean, every sport is dirty, those Galway hurlers aren't skinny.

Galway forwards.     Height                  Weight                   

Cathal Mannion -          6 ft 1 in.                    88 kg.

Joe Canning -                 6ft 2 in.                     92 kg.

Joseph Cooney -            6 ft 4 in.                    96 kg.

Conor Whelan -             6 ft 0 in.                    88 kg.

Niall Burke -                   6 ft 0 in.                   94 kg.

Conor Cooney -              6 ft 4 in.                    94 kg.

Cian Healy-                    6 ft 0 in.                    104kg.
Sean O'Brien                  6 ft 2 in.                    108 kg.
Joey Carbery                  6 ft 0 in.                    88 kg.
Robbie Henshaw             6 ft 3 in.                    103 kg.

I'm not saying "my sport is clean" but they don't look overly unnatural to term a phrase whereas IN CERTAIN POSITIONS in rugby there must be a huge onus on the players to bulk up to play in those positions and with professional contracts on offer the shortcuts may be very tempting.

When the likes of Robbie Henshaw line out at centre, he's no man mountain, yet he's 6'3" and almost 10KG heavier than any of the Galway lads of a comparable height.

I'd consider Henshaw to have a reasonable body shape just like most of the Galway hurlers. Some other lads you wouldn't like to be cleaning their cage.


seafoid

Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 11:58:05 AM
In the northern hemisphere, rugby is a game of attrition. Bosh , bosh, bosh.
Players are much bulkier than they used to be. So the hits are harder.
The concussions are scary. No sport is worth brain damage.

Rugby is trying to do something about it, what is the GAA doing, should that not be more your focus now? GAA is miles behind the ball here.
Sure the GAA could do more but rugby is far more of concern.
The main problem in rugby is size.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/neil-francis-the-french-bench-was-just-freakish-in-size-uini-atonio-is-big-enough-to-have-his-own-post-code-31011167.html

The other problem is excessive aggression

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/neurosurgeon-critical-of-rugby-s-excessive-aggression-1.2060907

"Anyone who has spent an hour picking skull fragments out of the contused frontal lobes of a teenage rugby player is entitled to an opinion on the safety of youth rugby. As a paediatric neurosurgeon, I've done this on several occasions. As a 'rugby parent', I've observed the school and club game at close quarters, from both sides of the touchline. What I've seen and heard suggests that our thinking on the subject may not be altogether rational."

The biggest risks are in rugby.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/video-neil-francis-and-tony-ward-itll-need-a-fatality-before-people-take-cognisance-of-concussion-30984103.html

The rate of concussion in rugby is far higher. I think it is a structural problem.

Rugby is addressing it, the GAA is not though. How many ex-hurlers suffered concussions and just played on?

How many concussions occur per 1000 hours of GAA?
How many injuries occur per 1000 hours of GAA training ?


Half of rugby injuries occur in training.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Dinny Breen

Quote from: johnneycool on January 18, 2018, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 18, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 08:34:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 08:24:50 AM
Chris Henry says signing the steroid South African is unacceptable. But look at the size of Henry. He reminds me of those cheap chickens bred for their fillets. Size FF . Organic chickens might be a B.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/it-is-unacceptable-ireland-international-hits-out-at-signing-of-gerbrandt-grobler-36501599.html

How big was Chris Henry when he was 20? I doubt he took any shortcuts, I say doubt because who the f**k knows really! Look at the size of some of the Galway hurlers!!!


Can roids make a 20 something year old taller?

Galway hurlers are lean but not bulky in the way a Cian Healy would be.

Ha! My sport is clean, every sport is dirty, those Galway hurlers aren't skinny.

Galway forwards.     Height                  Weight                   

Cathal Mannion -          6 ft 1 in.                    88 kg.

Joe Canning -                 6ft 2 in.                     92 kg.

Joseph Cooney -            6 ft 4 in.                    96 kg.

Conor Whelan -             6 ft 0 in.                    88 kg.

Niall Burke -                   6 ft 0 in.                   94 kg.

Conor Cooney -              6 ft 4 in.                    94 kg.

Cian Healy-                    6 ft 0 in.                    104kg.
Sean O'Brien                  6 ft 2 in.                    108 kg.
Joey Carbery                  6 ft 0 in.                    88 kg.
Robbie Henshaw             6 ft 3 in.                    103 kg.

I'm not saying "my sport is clean" but they don't look overly unnatural to term a phrase whereas IN CERTAIN POSITIONS in rugby there must be a huge onus on the players to bulk up to play in those positions and with professional contracts on offer the shortcuts may be very tempting.

When the likes of Robbie Henshaw line out at centre, he's no man mountain, yet he's 6'3" and almost 10KG heavier than any of the Galway lads of a comparable height.

I'd consider Henshaw to have a reasonable body shape just like most of the Galway hurlers. Some other lads you wouldn't like to be cleaning their cage.

Prop forwards have always being big, it's the whole rugby is for all shapes and sizes and rugby players have always been bigger than GAA players but as rugby players are getting bigger and fitter so are GAA players, it's all relative.

Also don't forget the old adage, a good big un' will alway be better than a good small un'. I suppose my convoluted point is that while the finger should be pointed at rugby I wouldn't ignore any sport in terms of concussion and performance enhancing drugs. The GAA is getting more and more professional in terms of attitude all the way down the line. We don't want players feeling the pressure to bulk up, getting quicker, recover quicker just so they can play the game to the modern standard. In all sports we are losing the fun and social battle, it just feels like it's now winning is the only thing that matters.
#newbridgeornowhere

Dinny Breen

Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 01:46:57 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 01:14:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 18, 2018, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2018, 11:58:05 AM
In the northern hemisphere, rugby is a game of attrition. Bosh , bosh, bosh.
Players are much bulkier than they used to be. So the hits are harder.
The concussions are scary. No sport is worth brain damage.

Rugby is trying to do something about it, what is the GAA doing, should that not be more your focus now? GAA is miles behind the ball here.
Sure the GAA could do more but rugby is far more of concern.
The main problem in rugby is size.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/neil-francis-the-french-bench-was-just-freakish-in-size-uini-atonio-is-big-enough-to-have-his-own-post-code-31011167.html

The other problem is excessive aggression

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/neurosurgeon-critical-of-rugby-s-excessive-aggression-1.2060907

"Anyone who has spent an hour picking skull fragments out of the contused frontal lobes of a teenage rugby player is entitled to an opinion on the safety of youth rugby. As a paediatric neurosurgeon, I've done this on several occasions. As a 'rugby parent', I've observed the school and club game at close quarters, from both sides of the touchline. What I've seen and heard suggests that our thinking on the subject may not be altogether rational."

The biggest risks are in rugby.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/video-neil-francis-and-tony-ward-itll-need-a-fatality-before-people-take-cognisance-of-concussion-30984103.html

The rate of concussion in rugby is far higher. I think it is a structural problem.

Rugby is addressing it, the GAA is not though. How many ex-hurlers suffered concussions and just played on?

How many concussions occur per 1000 hours of GAA?
How many injuries occur per 1000 hours of GAA training ?


Half of rugby injuries occur in training.

Tell me how many?
#newbridgeornowhere

AZOffaly

I would say the nature of rugby itself means there is a greater likelihood of concussion. The body to body impacts, and heads hitting the ground, are unavoidable in a sport like that. Moreso when the gameplan for a lot of teams appears to be crash ball down the 10 channel, and recycling. The 'run to where they ain't' approach isn't followed by a lot of teams.

That said there does now appear to be a focus on getting the ball wide into non contact areas, so hopefully that will mitigate the sight of Jamie Roberts running into Basterau for a 2 yard gain, followed by a back rower doing the same.

All that said, I do think Rugby is aware and afraid of the concussion issue, and is doing something about it. I've seen the concussion protocols working at Thomond Park, even when players are thick about being hauled off, so I think the rugby lads should get credit where it's due on that.

seafoid

Some stats here:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11407436/Rugby-concussions-soar-by-59-per-cent-says-report.html

I'm 2014 there were 10.5 concussions per 1000 hours. The next year it was over 13.

Boxing was 17.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

This is worth a google

The England Professional Rugby Injury Surveillance Project
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

AZOffaly

Yes but that's because they are measuring them properly now. How many concussions are not even reported in the GAA? I know I've had several, and I never 'reported' it to anyone. (Other than the Portiuncula hospital in Ballinasloe as they did a brain scan on me!)

seafoid

http://www.sligogaa.ie/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=9704

GAA Injury Database

The Medical, Scientific and Welfare Committee also presented some findings from the GAA's Injury database today. The database, under the direction of Mr John C Murphy of the MSW Committee and Dr Catherine Blake and Ms Edwenia O Malley of the UCD School of Public Health, Physiotherapy and Population Science, has tracked injury data from 17 inter county Gaelic Football and 16 Inter county hurling teams since it was established in 2007.

The database shows that the most common injuries sustained in Gaelic games are;

Hamstring (football: 18.2% of all injuries, hurling: 16.5%)
Knee (11.6% of injuries – both codes)
Pelvis & Groin (football: 9.4% of all injuries, hurling: 10.4%)
Ankle (9% of all injuries – both codes)
Shoulder (football: 6.8% of all injuries, hurling: 6%)
Wrist & Hand (football: 4.2% of all injuries, hurling: 10.3%)

Mr Murphy said he was satisfied that the database showed the instance of injury in Gaelic games to be largely in line with that experienced in field sports of a similar nature such as Australian Rules football. He said that among the results that would be of particular interest to the GAA and the medical community were :

That recurrent injuries generally require significantly longer recovery periods (typical "return to play" time for a new hamstring injury is 18.5 days [football] or 16.5 days [hurling]; this rises to 41 days (f) and 30.5 days (h) for a recurrent injury)That in terms of playing time lost, the Anterior Cruciate ligament Injury (ACL) is the most severeThat a typical intercounty panel spends on average approximately 13 hours in collective training for every 1 hour of competitive game time.

That footballers are three times more likely to be concussed during a game than hurlers.

On the issue of concussion, Mr Murphy said that while the instance in Gaelic games was largely consistent with that experienced in Australian Rules football, it was important that players, managers and coaches become more aware of what concussion is, its symptoms and signs, the possible side effects and the guidelines with respect to returning to play. He said the GAA's Medical, Scientific & Welfare Committee would be actively working with in the coming months to generate greater awareness around concussion in sport. The GAA's own position paper on Concussion and various other injuries can be viewed

at http://www.gaa.ie/medical-and-player-welfare/injuries/types-of-injury/


"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

GetOverTheBar

No Tadhg Beirne, he's not really in the same situation as Zebo as he's coming home. Thought they would invest in him.


Kuwabatake Sanjuro

He is the South African who didn't get caught.


tonto1888

Has that picture been posted to prove anything?