British State Collusion

[SuperMac]

The truth is the conflict here was perpetuated by the Security forces, Unionism, British govt. Played eveyone like puppets and could have brought the conflict to an end at anytime but chose not to.

Stakeknife how the Brits organised the whole war against themselves for 25 years, boy they sure fooled the entire world didn't they. Funny enough they don't seem to keen to let organise the disso's into a 25 year conflict ??

[SkillfulBill]

The truth is the conflict here was perpetuated by the Security forces, Unionism, British govt. Played eveyone like puppets and could have brought the conflict to an end at anytime but chose not to.

Stakeknife how the Brits organised the whole war against themselves for 25 years, boy they sure fooled the entire world didn't they. Funny enough they don't seem to keen to let organise the disso's into a 25 year conflict ??

Your an extremely naive person if you can't see that from the mid 80's republicans were penetrated at the highest levels, Denis Donaldson and stakeknife are only two examples. Guys with influence over direction and policy. Loughhall, Clonoe, Strabane and Coagh don't happen by accident.

Why would they want the Disso's distroy the settlement which the British wanted planned and Orchastrate from the mid 80's onwards ?

[SuperMac]

Your an extremely naive person if you can't see that from the mid 80's republicans were penetrated at the highest levels, Denis Donaldson and stakeknife are only two examples. Guys with influence over direction and policy. Loughhall, Clonoe, Strabane and Coagh don't happen by accident.

Why would they want the Disso's distroy the settlement which the British wanted planned and Orchastrate from the mid 80's onwards ?

If there's anyone who is an  extremely naive person it's you matey On the law of averages the Brits were going to find out where some weapons etc were been stored and lay an ambush. You mention Loughgall, so come the Provos could retaliate back with Ballygawley 8 dead and Lisburn 6 dead in reply ? And it should be pointed out that Brit ambushes were far from been the success story they claimed with the IRA sometimes playing a double game and killing some of them in a counter ambush. When the Brits carried out an ambush it was hyped in the media for days as the daring do 007 SAS blah, blah, blah. When the Provos took some of them out in a counter ambush it was quietly put down as the death of " undercover soldiers " and dropped by the next day.

As for "the settlement which the British wanted planned and Orchastrate from the mid 80's onwards" Yeah sure they let London, Manchester, MP Ian Gow turned to toast and thousands of other operations go ahead in some sort of plan to make it look like the British govt could bring about a settlement with the very people they had said for 25 years over their dead bodies would they ever speak to never mind end up in power sharing with  GET REAL.

IRA kill SAS men in counter ambush | Cappagh | 24th March 1990 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8tWQlX7Fc

[SkillfulBill]

The truth is the conflict here was perpetuated by the Security forces, Unionism, British govt. Played eveyone like puppets and could have brought the conflict to an end at anytime but chose not to.

Stakeknife how the Brits organised the whole war against themselves for 25 years, boy they sure fooled the entire world didn't they. Funny enough they don't seem to keen to let organise the disso's into a 25 year conflict ??

Brits needed to control both sides to a settlement. Which they did. They recognised after the hunger strikes they had to turn their biggest weakness into a strength (The republican movement). They already had loyalists in their pockets. The Strategy was very simple.
1. Shoot to kill STRATEGY.
2. Target catholic population by directing loyalist death squads.
3. When shoot to kills stratey was exposed the changed tactics by using loyalists to target republican activists abd known republican families. Galbally
4. Use of their agents within republican movement to disrupt and ambush IRA activities. LOUGHALL CLONOE etc
5. Use of internal IRA security to eliminate informers who had become liabilities to them and to eliminate other memvers who were not informers SCAP.
6. Use of republican acitivies to target loyalists. Shankill.
7. Influence political thinking of Republicans Donaldson.
8. Omagh. Manchester Canary Warf and all the other operations are collateral damage.

Any good military strategist would recognise the planning and Orchastration get your head out of your ass.

[foxcommander]

Bill - don't forget that media coverage (or lack of) on both sides of the border was important to keep the population focused on what they needed to know by certain parties.

[SuperMac]

Brits needed to control both sides to a settlement. Which they did. They recognised after the hunger strikes they had to turn their biggest weakness into a strength (The republican movement). They already had loyalists in their pockets. The Strategy was very simple.
1. Shoot to kill STRATEGY.
2. Target catholic population by directing loyalist death squads.
3. When shoot to kills stratey was exposed the changed tactics by using loyalists to target republican activists abd known republican families. Galbally
4. Use of their agents within republican movement to disrupt and ambush IRA activities. LOUGHALL CLONOE etc
5. Use of internal IRA security to eliminate informers who had become liabilities to them and to eliminate other memvers who were not informers SCAP.
6. Use of republican acitivies to target loyalists. Shankill.
7. Influence political thinking of Republicans Donaldson.
8. Omagh. Manchester Canary Warf and all the other operations are collateral damage.

Any good military strategist would recognise the planning and Orchastration get your head out of your ass.

So Walter Mitty is at it again  Absolutely illogical and absurd to think the Brits from 1981 were running the IRA to bring about a settlement nearly a decade and a half later and accepting the billions of damage to London, Manchester etc as "collateral damage " as well as all the deaths of their own including MP's, Judges, Generals and almost been wiped out at Brighton or mortared into Downing St etc Like I said, they don't seem to be too keen to let organise the disso's into a 25 year conflict.

[SuperMac]

Bill - don't forget that media coverage (or lack of) on both sides of the border was important to keep the population focused on what they needed to know by certain parties.

The collaboration was going on long before 1969 when I think of it such as Dev bringing over an English hangman to execute Irish prisoners, internment etc And just carried on regardless from first day of the troubles when the great ' stand idly by ' Lynch's Fianna Fail govt did everything possible to collaborate with the Brits and unionist regime in the north to maintain partition and their rotten, cronyist, gombeen state south of the border.

[SkillfulBill]

Brits needed to control both sides to a settlement. Which they did. They recognised after the hunger strikes they had to turn their biggest weakness into a strength (The republican movement). They already had loyalists in their pockets. The Strategy was very simple.
1. Shoot to kill STRATEGY.
2. Target catholic population by directing loyalist death squads.
3. When shoot to kills stratey was exposed the changed tactics by using loyalists to target republican activists abd known republican families. Galbally
4. Use of their agents within republican movement to disrupt and ambush IRA activities. LOUGHALL CLONOE etc
5. Use of internal IRA security to eliminate informers who had become liabilities to them and to eliminate other memvers who were not informers SCAP.
6. Use of republican acitivies to target loyalists. Shankill.
7. Influence political thinking of Republicans Donaldson.
8. Omagh. Manchester Canary Warf and all the other operations are collateral damage.

Any good military strategist would recognise the planning and Orchastration get your head out of your ass.

So Walter Mitty is at it again  Absolutely illogical and absurd to think the Brits from 1981 were running the IRA to bring about a settlement nearly a decade and a half later and accepting the billions of damage to London, Manchester etc as "collateral damage " as well as all the deaths of their own including MP's, Judges, Generals and almost been wiped out at Brighton or mortared into Downing St etc Like I said, they don't seem to be too keen to let organise the disso's into a 25 year conflict. What a clown.

Your not the brightest individual on the board then.All of these operations you highlight are the reasons why the Brits had to find a way out. They knew a united ireland couldnt be achieved due to the small problem of 1M unionists. So ask yourself this question. What was it that brought Martin and Gerry from their 1970's meeting in which they asked tge Brits to get out within 2 years to the Goodfriday agreement ? Did the boys just get old ? Brits didn't control an Empire or win 2 world wars by sitting back and letting it happen.....and let others set the agenda. This is an establishment prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of their own citizens so 4-5000 in Ireland abd a few Billion is nothing to them.Puppet masters at their work and every thinking republican knows it.

[AZOffaly]

Signed.

Signed

[stew]

Parties like Alliance are soft unionists.We need a party who will effectively abandon the constitutional question in favour of living in the here and now.Such a party would also be needed in the event of a United Ireland to ensure unique Northern Irishness is recognised.

Bollocks Tony from start to finish.

[SuperMac]

Your not the brightest individual on the board then.All of these operations you highlight are the reasons why the Brits had to find a way out. They knew a united ireland couldnt be achieved due to the small problem of 1M unionists. So ask yourself this question. What was it that brought Martin and Gerry from their 1970's meeting in which they asked tge Brits to get out within 2 years to the Goodfriday agreement ? Did the boys just get old ? Brits didn't control an Empire or win 2 world wars by sitting back and letting it happen.....and let others set the agenda. This is an establishment prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of their own citizens so 4-5000 in Ireland abd a few Billion is nothing to them.Puppet masters at their work and every thinking republican knows it.

If there's anyone who is not the not the brightest individual on the board it's obviously you Walter  Your like a member of the flat earth society who thinks if he shouts " The earth is flat, the earth is flat, the earth is flat " everyone will eventually start thinking like him !!! Again totally illogical and absurd to push a conspiracy theory that from 1981 the Brits were secretly running the IRA to bring about a settlement nearly a decade and a half later and accepting the billions of damage to London, Manchester etc as "collateral damage " as well as the international embarrassment of the Provos mortaring Downing St, Brighton Hotel etc. It was the Provos who had the upper hand with their spies within British security services and hence bombs under MP's cars, mortars into Downing St, the mass break out of 33 of the IRA's most deadly men in 1983, the huge arms shipments from Libya which your MI5, MI6, SAS etc knew nothing about until the 3rd and smallest one was captured by accident by the Irish navy.

And as for " Britain win 2 world wars by " ah yes here we go again, Britain the nation that tries to hype itself up with the conceited lies that they alone defeated Germany in two world wars  And how in God's name Gerry and Martin back in the mid 70's were supposed to know about the future Good Friday agreement of 1998 is beyond me.

[SkillfulBill]

Your not the brightest individual on the board then.All of these operations you highlight are the reasons why the Brits had to find a way out. They knew a united ireland couldnt be achieved due to the small problem of 1M unionists. So ask yourself this question. What was it that brought Martin and Gerry from their 1970's meeting in which they asked tge Brits to get out within 2 years to the Goodfriday agreement ? Did the boys just get old ? Brits didn't control an Empire or win 2 world wars by sitting back and letting it happen.....and let others set the agenda. This is an establishment prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of their own citizens so 4-5000 in Ireland abd a few Billion is nothing to them.Puppet masters at their work and every thinking republican knows it.

If there's anyone who is not the not the brightest individual on the board it's obviously you Walter  Your like a member of the flat earth society who thinks if he shouts " The earth is flat, the earth is flat, the earth is flat " everyone will eventually start thinking like him !!! Again totally illogical and absurd to push a conspiracy theory that from 1981 the Brits were secretly running the IRA to bring about a settlement nearly a decade and a half later and accepting the billions of damage to London, Manchester etc as "collateral damage " as well as the international embarrassment of the Provos mortaring Downing St, Brighton Hotel etc. It was the Provos who had the upper hand with their spies within British security services and hence bombs under MP's cars, mortars into Downing St, the mass break out of 33 of the IRA's most deadly men in 1983, the huge arms shipments from Libya which your MI5, MI6, SAS etc knew nothing about until the 3rd and smallest one was captured by accident by the Irish navy.

And as for " Britain win 2 world wars by " ah yes here we go again, Britain the nation that tries to hype itself up with the conceited lies that they alone defeated Germany in two world wars  And how in God's name Gerry and Martin back in the mid 70's were supposed to know about the future Good Friday agreement of 1998 is beyond me.

You obviously have little or no understanding of what went on during the 80's and 90's in the six counties. Your romantic notions of the nature of the war indicates to me you are either very young or you are a fireside general from the 26 who has no experience of living through that period in the North and have never shared your views of the resounding success of the war with anyone who actually dedicated themselves to the pursuit of it. I doubt very much if you actually know anyone from the Republican movement. If you do perhaps you should check out your thesis that the Brits were brought to the table on Republican terms and that the settlement that came about is what they fought and died for.

[Milltown Row2]

Jesus what a couple of pages!! Seemed real delight on some of those posts about blowing people to smitherings!! Listing atrocities and beating chests! Sad that there are people still thinking that it was a romantic war! Absolutely no winners in this dirty war.... All of them in bed with each other lining their pockets while others rotted in jail died in jail or murdered on the streets in bars even while attending mass or funerals!!

And what did we all get out of it??

[Applesisapples]

Jesus what a couple of pages!! Seemed real delight on some of those posts about blowing people to smitherings!! Listing atrocities and beating chests! Sad that there are people still thinking that it was a romantic war! Absolutely no winners in this dirty war.... All of them in bed with each other lining their pockets while others rotted in jail died in jail or murdered on the streets in bars even while attending mass or funerals!!

And what did we all get out of it??

SF copperfastening partition, McGuinness supporting the NI soccer team and kissing the arse of the Royal family and the DUP.

[Owenmoresider]

Your not the brightest individual on the board then.All of these operations you highlight are the reasons why the Brits had to find a way out. They knew a united ireland couldnt be achieved due to the small problem of 1M unionists. So ask yourself this question. What was it that brought Martin and Gerry from their 1970's meeting in which they asked tge Brits to get out within 2 years to the Goodfriday agreement ? Did the boys just get old ? Brits didn't control an Empire or win 2 world wars by sitting back and letting it happen.....and let others set the agenda. This is an establishment prepared to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of their own citizens so 4-5000 in Ireland abd a few Billion is nothing to them.Puppet masters at their work and every thinking republican knows it.

If there's anyone who is not the not the brightest individual on the board it's obviously you Walter  Your like a member of the flat earth society who thinks if he shouts " The earth is flat, the earth is flat, the earth is flat " everyone will eventually start thinking like him !!! Again totally illogical and absurd to push a conspiracy theory that from 1981 the Brits were secretly running the IRA to bring about a settlement nearly a decade and a half later and accepting the billions of damage to London, Manchester etc as "collateral damage " as well as the international embarrassment of the Provos mortaring Downing St, Brighton Hotel etc. It was the Provos who had the upper hand with their spies within British security services and hence bombs under MP's cars, mortars into Downing St, the mass break out of 33 of the IRA's most deadly men in 1983, the huge arms shipments from Libya which your MI5, MI6, SAS etc knew nothing about until the 3rd and smallest one was captured by accident by the Irish navy.

And as for " Britain win 2 world wars by " ah yes here we go again, Britain the nation that tries to hype itself up with the conceited lies that they alone defeated Germany in two world wars  And how in God's name Gerry and Martin back in the mid 70's were supposed to know about the future Good Friday agreement of 1998 is beyond me.

You obviously have little or no understanding of what went on during the 80's and 90's in the six counties. Your romantic notions of the nature of the war indicates to me you are either very young or you are a fireside general from the 26 who has no experience of living through that period in the North and have never shared your views of the resounding success of the war with anyone who actually dedicated themselves to the pursuit of it. I doubt very much if you actually know anyone from the Republican movement. If you do perhaps you should check out your thesis that the Brits were brought to the table on Republican terms and that the settlement that came about is what they fought and died for.

Going on his posts he's a Dublin-based Shinner. A particularly arrogant and delusional element of that cult.