Paddy O'Rourke Slates 'Head-Melting' Demands Of Inter-County Schedule
Offsetting potential gratification gained against effort exerted is becoming an increasingly important consideration for inter-county GAA players.
Is it feasible or sensible to put so much of one's life on hold for the pursuit of sporting ambition?
Although it is inaccurate to suggest that such effort is ultimately in vain if no provincial or All-Ireland title is forthcoming, with so few of those playing in inter-county football and hurling ever getting even a glimpse of what the Championship can offer, thoughts regarding 'what is this all for?' seem increasingly inevitable as the preparatory steps to even mediocrity continue to rise.
For Meath's Paddy O'Rourke, the decision to reclaim some semblance of normality has won out.
Speaking to AIB, O'Rourke determined that the hopelessness of Meath's chances for success going forward informed his decision to forego the months of training and committment that would nonetheless necessitate his first-hand role in a doomed pursuit:
The idea that I had to walk away from inter-county football was nagging at the back of my head in the months before we lost to Donegal last summer.
If we're honest in Meath, we're not getting any closer to where we want to go.
Winning Leinster again or challenging for an All-Ireland doesn't look realistic any time soon, and in fact it feels like it is farther away than ever.
Undoubtedly, the Meath goalkeeper will be criticised for his willingness to walk-away. Yet, with the demands rising, and progress reducing, O'Rourke struggles to see the point in remaining.
Having played in an All-Ireland semi-final in 2009, and lifting the Leinster title in 2010, the 28-year-old has seen nothing since that would encourage him to continue:
From 2011 to now, the commitment levels have gone through the roof but we've had nothing to show for it.
Our seasons have been over by early to mid-July. Last year we lost to Kildare, which suggests we've been slipping in the province, while Dublin are well out in front, and then this new Super 8 won't help any team outside the elite.
Despite his long run with the Meath team however, the Skryne club-man is incredibly pleased with his premature decision to depart, citing "the huge upside of not being tied down to the Meath schedule for at least five days per week."
No longer waking up "thinking about what I need to get through the next 16 or 17 hours", the conclusion that "this is not worth it" any longer was a brave decision in reality. As the now former Meath 'keeper testifies, "your head would be melted" with the work that goes into it.
Whether or not O'Rourke's decision will become more common among other inter-county players of his status is unclear, but a precedence has certainly been set.
It is not inconceivable that, like O'Rourke, a number of footballers and hurlers may similarly consider that "losing so much of your life" to inter-county teams is scarcely worth a few Championship games a summer and no glory.
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/paddy-orourke-slates-head-melting-demands-inter-county-schedule-383369 (https://www.balls.ie/gaa/paddy-orourke-slates-head-melting-demands-inter-county-schedule-383369)
Thoughts?
When you look at the increasing demands of intercounty football vs. the decreasing odds of success for most counties, I'm amazed so many of them are sticking it out.
Then again, it's mostly a game for students and teachers now.
I have a lot of respect for his honesty. The pursuit of corperate era Dublin has proven the straw that broke the camel's back in a lot of ways.
When will HQ face reality and realise the playing field needs to be levelled and the demands on IC payers reduced to that of a genuinely amateur sport?
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
The question remains does the toil match the reward? I think in every county bar Dublin the answer is a resounding no. Even the players involved now probably regularly ask themselves if what the IC game has become is worth it.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
That's true, but intercounty football is an arms race now.
Where will it end?
We have players giving up work and taking a year out of college to concentrate on playing football/hurling.
Is it not time somebody shouted stop, or is that even possible?
Given the honour to play for your senior county team is worth it. More often than not you have to build towards a reward and Meath reaching Div one for the first time in over a decade would be a reward and something to build on.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:34:23 PM
Given the honour to play for your senior county team is worth it. More often than not you have to build towards a reward and Meath reaching Div one for the first time in over a decade would be a reward and something to build on.
It's easy to talk about honour and county pride from the arm chair. It probably gets a tad old after ten years or more fluting about no really getting anywhere. Back in college even the lads willing to go home of a Wednesday or Thursday evening for club training were a rare breed, nevermind those committing to the insane demands of an IC regime. I'm sure Paddy is realising how much more of life he has time to explore now, friends, nights out, having a fecking hobby. The demands on IC players force them down very one dimensional paths.
The sport is broken.
Meath came through in the mid to late 80s without having any great underage success. A big county with plenty of money available but still no great improvements in recent years and hard to see any challenge to Dublin
I played football because I enjoyed it.
If you don't enjoy it and you've no chance of winning anything, what's the point.
Meanwhile, the ordinary club players are sitting on their hands for the best part of the summer while they watch their 'elite' players hand-passing the ball around in circles with the county.
No better armchair critic than yourself syferus and i'm sure if any county player playing on Div 2,3 or 4 teams was to read some of the nonsense written on these online forums they will be thinking very strongly that it isn't worth it.
At the end of the day the top 6 sides don't have many commitment issues while the rest are chopping and changing teams year after year because the commitment players are giving on teams outside the top 6 is becoming less and less and for many they simply enjoy club football better than county football.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 09:51:51 PM
Meath came through in the mid to late 80s without having any great underage success. A big county with plenty of money available but still no great improvements in recent years and hard to see any challenge to Dublin
Meath won at number of U21 Leinster titles from the mid 80s to the mid 90s they haven't won a U21 provincial title since 2001. Winning Leinster U17 last summer shows at least some signs of improvement at underage. Meath need to aim for their lower targets first than worrying about challenging Dublin any time soon.
I think within weaker counties there will always be some players who would be considered comparable with the top players from the bigger counties in terms of ability.
They will make Railway Cup squads and maybe the odd International Rules squad.
Those lads will always give the commitment.
They've always been the main man on every team from underage upwards, probably play/played Sigerson and football is a huge part of their identity.
It's what defines them in some respects.
However, it's the supporting cast within those weaker counties who will walk away, particularly as they get older and reality (career, wife & kids, mortgage) bites.
They're not that well known and they never will be.
It's a much easier decision for them to make.
I think people are missing the point. We got to a semifinal in 2009 and the lads have been upping the commitment year on year ever since but getting less and less of a return. I think either the game goes professional in a few years or the arse falls out of it completely and you'll be left with gross mismatches all the way to the final. The latter scenario is arguably upon us already.
It's one thing to have lots of talent like Dublin but when your pickings are a little slimmer the amount you have to compensate for with fitness and extra gym work and so forth is killing the middle tier players. Hence the supposed lack of commitment among them.
Shane O'Rourke has been the stand out club player in Meath the last two seasons but won't be making a return to the panel because in Andy McEntees own words he wouldn't be able for the level of training. Paddy has been made Skryne captain already and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a big year with the club.
You have Lee Chin talking about being a full time player putting off studies and work so he can concentrate on his game. This isn't what it's about. I understand these guys are competitive but it's not meant to be your life. It's a pastime.
Sadly i think it's going to be professionalism as super 8's appears to be nothing more than to squeeze more games out of the players, which is more cash to be squeezed out of the supporters and more money to be got from TV rights. The players are going to want a cut soon enough.
My prediction is that Sky will buy the rights for the super8 games and the finals and we'll be left with the scraps of mismatched provincial games and if it doesn't completely die at that point I'll be surprised.
There's a zero per cent chance that the GAA would even be able to put the AI finals behind a pay wall.
Quote from: Syferus on February 15, 2018, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
The question remains does the toil match the reward? I think in every county bar Dublin the answer is a resounding no. Even the players involved now probably regularly ask themselves if what the IC game has become is worth it.
Is the toil less for a Dublin player ??
Quote from: Orchard park on February 15, 2018, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 15, 2018, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
The question remains does the toil match the reward? I think in every county bar Dublin the answer is a resounding no. Even the players involved now probably regularly ask themselves if what the IC game has become is worth it.
Is the toil less for a Dublin player ??
Apart from the travel, no. But an AI medal might make it worth it.
I'd argue it's only Dublin dominance that's cutting the throat of the gaa now. If not for them they're be much more reward for the rest of the teams around the county, especially the Leinster teams. Mayo dominance in the West is waning and will soon end leaving room for ros or Galway to have a few bigs years at winning Connacht and dreams of Sam. If Dublin were brought into the chasing pack they're be some serious battles in Leinster between the big 4.
We've seen that everybody bar Dublin is eminently beatable on the day. Meath nearly caught Tyrone out twice in the last 5 years. Smaller counties can still turn the books on the larger ones in knockout football.
Dublin are like Michael Schumacher when he and Ferrari sucked the heart out of F1 in the early 2000s with his grip on the silverware.
Quote from: thejuice on February 15, 2018, 11:32:45 PM
I think people are missing the point. We got to a semifinal in 2009 and the lads have been upping the commitment year on year ever since but getting less and less of a return.
The Meath 2009 semi finalist team
P O'Rourke, C O'Connor, A Moyles, E Harrington, S Kenny, C McGuinness, C King, N Crawford, B Meade, P Byrne, J Sheridan, S Bray, D Bray, B Farrell, C Ward
The Meath 2012 team that was knocked out the championship 3 years later.
D Gallagher, D Keogan, B Menton, M Burke, D Tobin, S McAnarney, B Meade, C Gillespie, G Reilly, A Forde, D Carroll, S Bray, B Farrell, J Sheridan, C Ward.
Only a few survivors and I think only a hand full are still playing county football now. Meath as bad as any team outside the top six for chopping and changing their teams year after year.
To quote T.S. Eliot, 'This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.'
There will be no single day that we all get to make a stand against the outright commercialisation of the inter-county game.
We are already well on the way there.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 16, 2018, 09:13:14 AM
To quote T.S. Eliot, 'This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.'
There will be no single day that we all get to make a stand against the outright commercialisation of the inter-county game.
We are already well on the way there.
And it's working for the few and not the many. (c) Jeremy Corbyn.
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?
if your only interest in playing football is to win an All-Ireland final then you probably wont.
winning is the ultimate reward for for the best of the best not a condition of entry .
one of the things that disgusts me about professional sport is the way a player moves to a winning team and claim to feel any sense of ownership of that win.
I remember Michael o leary buying a gold cup winner a few days before the race and when it. the favorite won' he celebrate like he gave birth to it himself .
not sure what that is but it has nothing to do with Sport
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 15, 2018, 09:54:25 PM
I played football because I enjoyed it.
If you don't enjoy it and you've no chance of winning anything, what's the point.
Meanwhile, the ordinary club players are sitting on their hands for the best part of the summer while they watch their 'elite' players hand-passing the ball around in circles with the county.
Would enjoying it not be enough though? We've been through most of this before on numerous threads. In every sport there are entrants that have almost no chance of winning for the foreseeable future. If O'Rourke isn't enjoying it for whatever reason, be it that he can't see them winning or any other reason, then I suppose he's right to stop. I wouldn't hold that against him.
Maybe more can be done to make it so that he can see a future where Meath win Leinster, but if that happens, you're still going to have loads of players on loads of teams who still have very little chance of winning anything.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
You're smoking some shît if you think a tiered system would make the situation better and not worse.
This is reflective of a wider apathy within Leinster football. I think plenty of players around the province will be thinking this way in the years ahead. Your realistic ambition starting off the year is to try and reach a Leinster Final where your goal is to keep the score down against Dublin. Even if you achieve that you will probably still be mocked for all your efforts on national television for failing to beat a team who are operating in a different galaxy. Support within Leinster has fallen away because the public believe it's not a fair fight anymore. The players were bound to follow at some point.
Quote from: rosnarun on February 16, 2018, 10:07:05 AM
I remember Michael o leary buying a gold cup winner a few days before the race and when it. the favorite won' he celebrate like he gave birth to it himself .
That never happened!
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 16, 2018, 12:20:11 PM
This is reflective of a wider apathy within Leinster football. I think plenty of players around the province will be thinking this way in the years ahead. Your realistic ambition starting off the year is to try and reach a Leinster Final where your goal is to keep the score down against Dublin. Even if you achieve that you will probably still be mocked for all your efforts on national television for failing to beat a team who are operating in a different galaxy. Support within Leinster has fallen away because the public believe it's not a fair fight anymore. The players were bound to follow at some point.
Quote from: rosnarun on February 16, 2018, 10:07:05 AM
I remember Michael o leary buying a gold cup winner a few days before the race and when it. the favorite won' he celebrate like he gave birth to it himself .
That never happened!
Was there a time when Wicklow and Carlow didn't feel how you've outlined before?
No matter how bad Wicklow or Carlow were previously Meath and Offaly were winning or had a realistic hope of winning Leinster.
Problem is now as said above teams are only playing for a place ir Round 4 of the Qualifiers.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?
It's a long time since Westmeath lost to any Leinster team outside of Dublin.
Quote from: Syferus on February 16, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
You're smoking some shît if you think a tiered system would make the situation better and not worse.
I think a tiered system and a condensed intercounty season would solve a lot of issues within the broader GAA.
However, I'm conscious of unintended consequences.
That said, with the introduction of the Super Eight format, we will have a 'Division 1' by default.
I understand that there would be significant resistance to the introduction of a tiered championship but simple logic suggests it's the best way to go.
The biggest risk associated with this for me is that the 'product' becomes significantly more attractive as a result.
Not just for fans, but for advertisers, TV companies etc.
Quote from: shark on February 16, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?
It's a long time since Westmeath lost to any Leinster team outside of Dublin.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. To be honest it generous to include Meath in a Leinster Big 4
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 01:24:51 PM
No matter how bad Wicklow or Carlow were previously Meath and Offaly were winning or had a realistic hope of winning Leinster.
Problem is now as said above teams are only playing for a place ir Round 4 of the Qualifiers.
What's that got to do with Wicklow or Carlow?
My point was that Wicklow or Carlow always set off in Leinster with seemingly no chance of winning. Nothing has changed on that front so why is there such a push for change?
My guess is that, although some intercounty players like O'Rourke are quitting for the reasons outlined, that most still want to play for their county regardless. This may change and may be currently changing. But as of a few years ago, there was no appetite among players from Division 3 and 4 to either scrap the provincials or to introduce a tiered championship.
Quote from: Jinxy on February 16, 2018, 01:40:42 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 16, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
You're smoking some shît if you think a tiered system would make the situation better and not worse.
I think a tiered system and a condensed intercounty season would solve a lot of issues within the broader GAA.
However, I'm conscious of unintended consequences.
That said, with the introduction of the Super Eight format, we will have a 'Division 1' by default.
I understand that there would be significant resistance to the introduction of a tiered championship but simple logic suggests it's the best way to go.
The biggest risk associated with this for me is that the 'product' becomes significantly more attractive as a result.
Not just for fans, but for advertisers, TV companies etc.
I agree 100% with this and your previous comments.
It is Ffin stupid right now.
The only people who are still protecting the provincial status quo at SENIOR level at the paid employees of the provinces. IMO, they have wielded way way too much power over the last 20 years or more. Tradition, tradition was the cry, tradition also had the Bishop and ten others throwing the ball in to start the game, and then run like Fuc* to the sidelines. Time to move on.
How and why did intermediate and junior come about at club level.
If you have promotion and demotion of 1 or 2 teams every year from two or three tiered divisions then it will most likely sort it self out.
and have all two or three games on all-Ireland weekend Sat/Sun. God forbid you move the U17 to the evening before.
If they don't then in three or fours years, half the teams will ultimately accept their fate, and a lot more players from divison 3 and div 4 will be saying the same thing as POR.
Can you imagine the laughter if someone put a motion to the Roscommon County Convention to
1 Abolish the Junior and Intermediate grades and have one County Championship.
2 Start up Regional Championships with 5, 6, 7 and 10 teams where the winners of each would go straight to Qtr Finals.
Logic says 3 All Ireland Championships ( keep Provincials as stand alones with all grades entering like in Kerry) with promotion and relegation.
Have a League of some sort as a pre season competition.
Designate certain weekends of the 27 between 1st weekend April to 1st weekend in October as club only (say 11) and others as County only (11) with the other (5) flexible.
All All Ireland Finals same weekend U17, U20, Senior, Inter, Junior.
To those who say players from weak Counties are opposed -when did players ever get to say or decide what type or format of competitions?
Even the GPA despite becoming insiders had their proposals barred from even getting to Congress 2 years ago.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 03:35:16 PM
Can you imagine the laughter if someone put a motion to the Roscommon County Convention to
1 Abolish the Junior and Intermediate grades and have one County Championship.
2 Start up Regional Championships with 5, 6, 7 and 10 teams where the winners of each would go straight to Qtr Finals.
Logic says 3 All Ireland Championships ( keep Provincials as stand alones with all grades entering like in Kerry) with promotion and relegation.
Have a League of some sort as a pre season competition.
Designate certain weekends of the 27 between 1st weekend April to 1st weekend in October as club only (say 11) and others as County only (11) with the other (5) flexible.
All All Ireland Finals same weekend U17, U20, Senior, Inter, Junior.
To those who say players from weak Counties are opposed -when did players ever get to say or decide what type or format of competitions?
Even the GPA despite becoming insiders had their proposals barred from even getting to Congress 2 years ago.
Nobody said they get to decide. But whose opinions should be given more weight? Yours and mine? Journalists? Could you imagine the uproar if Croke Park asked the question, were told no to abolishing provincial championship and bringing in tiered championships by the players and went ahead and did it anyway?
Also, what's the logic you talk about with regards to three all-ireland championships? Even with a crude split based on league positions, do you think Leitrim, Wicklow and London would jump at the chance to having zero chance of winning a different competition? How about Meath or Tipperary in the senior?
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
His accountant.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?
Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.
I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.
On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said.
Quote
I would never have quit the panel when Mick O'Dowd was manager because he's a fellow Skryne clubman
I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 16, 2018, 05:02:47 PM
On the AIB original interview Paddy O Rourke said.
Quote
I would never have quit the panel when Mick O'Dowd was manager because he's a fellow Skryne clubman
I think this is the case with some players on every county panel, they won't quit when they know or like the manager. O Rourke also said he was always going to give Andy McEntee a chance yet that chance was just one year so educated guess would be that McEntee has upped the training and prepartion from what O Dowd was doing and players such as O Rourke don't have time to give the type of commitment that McEntee requires.
..or the writing was already on the wall before Dowd even arrived, and once he left O'Rourke was honest with himself. Which seems more likely.
Esmarelda the CPA asked last year's Congress to hold off the so called Super 8 so they obviously were in existence before the decision was made.
One only County Championship in Roscommon would fail small thinly populated clubs like St Ronans.
That's why we have 3 different graded Championships like most Counties ( Cork's and Kerry have more I believe).
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 16, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?
Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.
I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.
€€€€€€€€€€€ is the number one reason, If All quarter final attendances weren't dropping in recent years a change would not have taken place. The fat cats don't care if the weak become weaker with this new format all they care about is that more high profile games played in the height of the summer equals more €€€€€€€€€€€
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 16, 2018, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on February 16, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I said keep the Provincials by the way.
Same logic as doesn't have St Ronans in the same Championship as St Brigids in Roscommon and similar in 31 other Counties.
By the way who did the GAA head bucks consult before putting the Super 8 before Congress?
Both player bodies were opposed.
I don't get your example. St. Ronan's have no chance of winning? If so, isn't the format failing them as the current AI championship fails most counties?
Reasons given for bringing in the Super 8 (not mine) were (1) in response to certain counties having a very easy path to the semi-finals, e.g. usually three games for Kerry versus possibly five for Donegal/Tyrone. (2) losing provincial finalists now will have a second chance like everyone else previously had (I know Mickey Harte had definitely complained about this) and (3) loads and loads and loads of reasons linked to €€€€€€€€€€€ which, as well all know, is all that matters to the fat cats etc. etc. etc.
I'm open to correction, but I don't think the CPA was in existence when the new structure was decided upon.
€€€€€€€€€€€ is the number one reason, If All quarter final attendances weren't dropping in recent years a change would not have taken place. The fat cats don't care if the weak become weaker with this new format all they care about is that more high profile games in the height of the summer equals more €€€€€€€€€€€
;D ;D ;D ;D
Who are these overweight felines?
They openly admitted that it would compensate for dropping attendances. The number of replays will likely be reduced which would reduce income. They're not pretending that they want to make money. It's like, "you see, he admitted it".
Quote from: lenny on February 16, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 16, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
Can see this from both points. Paddy knows that putting in months of hard graft, sacrifice and effort isn't going to bear any fruit and to be fair the way things are going only 4 teams are going to be thereabouts come silverware time. Leinster is an especially hard nut to crack these days which Dublin dominating.
Retrospectively, most players would talk about more than the medals sitting in a drawer at home when reflecting on their careers. The camaraderie, sense of belonging and the bond is what most take away I think. I would say if Paddy is content he has walked away knowing he has taken out of Meath what he wanted then fair dues. You have to step away at some stage.
The sooner we get to a tiered championship like at club level the better. The clamour for it is growing all the time. The Longford manager was the latest to call for it this week. Ridiculous and deflating that teams like Longford and Wicklow are expected to take on Dublin.
Lenny, the trouble is that we did have a tiered championship of sorts, The Tommy Murphy Cup, and it lasted only two (I think) seasons. If you remember, that was a competition for Div 4 teams to give them a shot at making an appearance in Croke Park. Problem was none of the weaker teams were enthusiastic about the idea.
Back in 1984, the centenary of the GAA's founding, an open championship format was trialled for the Centenary Cup. It also lasted only two years. The vast majority of GAA people would agree that a change of format of some sort is needed but very few it seems are prepared to do anything about it.
Quote from: Orchard park on February 15, 2018, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Syferus on February 15, 2018, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 15, 2018, 09:23:35 PM
Meath are not the Meath of old and probably due to a lack of underage success for years and club football that has only improved recently. Basically Meath have to walk before they can run. Meaths aims should be to reach the super 8s and try to gain promotion to div one this spring. If the rest of the Meath players attitude was like O Rourkes "this is not worth it" then Meath will only stay where they are and make no progress at all.
The question remains does the toil match the reward? I think in every county bar Dublin the answer is a resounding no. Even the players involved now probably regularly ask themselves if what the IC game has become is worth it.
Is the toil less for a Dublin player ??
No, but the benefits are greater. Accommodating employers, hi-tech training facilities ....not to mention much smaller travel distances (for the ones actually working).
Lar the Tommy Murphy was a TOURNAMENT for teams from lower League divisions who had already been knocked out of Provincial and All Ireland Championships.
That 1984 thingy was TOURNAMENT too.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?
Offaly, albeit not for a long time.
No doubt Corporate Park are pushing for the development of an elite level; eight teams playing round robin. But they have to be seen to as concerned with the remaining counties hence the different tiers.
On the other hand there is lip service to the club.
When are we going to stop deluding ourselves?
If the club is so important how can additional inter county fixtures allow for a meaningful programme of club games - where county players take part?
We cannot have more inter matches full stop.
People at the top need to cry halt and rebalance the club - county divide.
The 4 divisions of the NFL are really working very well BUT that doesn't mean that we need a 2ND 'NFL' DRESSED UP AS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!! Counties will get sick of playing each other - and that is why the bottom 16 do not want it.
Why do we keep trying to invent new competitions?
If we are serious about treating club players with respect we should pull back the inter county programme. people say that can't be done - of course it can.
The qualifiers, tiered championships, league championship suit the stronger outfits. They will continue to dominate.
If the league was marketed better, played in better weather it's status would improve, attendances would rocket. It would become a much more important and prestigious competition.
If it was played alongside a knockout championship players like Paddy O Rourke would have greater incentive - knock Dublin or Kerry or Mayo out and they are out! On any given day that could happen.
End result is we have less inter county competition - but greater quality and more competitive; a restricted season that reduces the advantage of the financially richer counties and brings hope back to all county squads.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Trileacman I'm wondering who's the 4th BIG in Leinster?
There's Dublin, Meath, Kildare and.....?
has to be Westmeath at the mo
2 finals in a row
Quote from: Give and Go on February 17, 2018, 09:42:05 AM
No doubt Corporate Park are pushing for the development of an elite level; eight teams playing round robin. But they have to be seen to as concerned with the remaining counties hence the different tiers.
On the other hand there is lip service to the club.
When are we going to stop deluding ourselves?
If the club is so important how can additional inter county fixtures allow for a meaningful programme of club games - where county players take part?
We cannot have more inter matches full stop.
People at the top need to cry halt and rebalance the club - county divide.
The 4 divisions of the NFL are really working very well BUT that doesn't mean that we need a 2ND 'NFL' DRESSED UP AS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!! Counties will get sick of playing each other - and that is why the bottom 16 do not want it.
Why do we keep trying to invent new competitions?
If we are serious about treating club players with respect we should pull back the inter county programme. people say that can't be done - of course it can.
The qualifiers, tiered championships, league championship suit the stronger outfits. They will continue to dominate.
If the league was marketed better, played in better weather it's status would improve, attendances would rocket. It would become a much more important and prestigious competition.
If it was played alongside a knockout championship players like Paddy O Rourke would have greater incentive - knock Dublin or Kerry or Mayo out and they are out! On any given day that could happen.
End result is we have less inter county competition - but greater quality and more competitive; a restricted season that reduces the advantage of the financially richer counties and brings hope back to all county squads.
I don't understand the first half of your post.
Where are you getting the eight-team round robin thing from? And the "different tiers"? You seem to be saying that Croke Park want this, yet they haven't pushed for it. And many people criticise them for not doing it, but you would criticise them for doing it, even though they aren't? How can they win?
There are additional intercounty fixtures but the time taken to complete the AI series, and the league, has been shortened. So what's the relevance of this point?
Counties will get sick of playing each other yet the provincials have survived this far with groups of nine, seven, six and eleven?
I'm not saying your overall view is wrong but I'm not sure where you're going with some of your specific points.
Already this thread has shown the problem that all the other similar threads show; there are a huge variety of opinions on how the intercounty season should look, in conjunction with the club calendar, and therefore it is near impossible to solve it. The only thing we can agree on is that it's Croke Park's fault and definitely not the county boards and club representatives at those boards' meetings.
Indeed its all Croke Parks fault while the poor dekegates to Conventions and Congresses arent allowed vot at all!!!
Ah sure nothing like a good rant!!
I wonder how Paddy O'Rourke's and other teams will "knock Kerry Mayo or Dublin out" in whatever competition Give and go is proposing? If there are only 3 top teams miles ahead of the rest then they'll dominate anyway.
Does he or she seriously expect Meath or the equivalent to win the AI if you reduce the number of Co games and have more club games?
Does he propose having more club competitions?
QuoteThe 4 divisions of the NFL are really working very well BUT that doesn't mean that we need a 2ND 'NFL' DRESSED UP AS A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!
Quote
The qualifiers, tiered championships, league championship suit the stronger outfits. They will continue to dominate.
QuoteIf the league was marketed better, played in better weather it's status would improve, attendances would rocket. It would become a much more important and prestigious competition.
QuoteIf it was played alongside a knockout championship players like Paddy O Rourke would have greater incentive
All good points.