Hypocritical Dubs

[Dinny Breen]

If Mayo had scoring forwards the Dubs would only have won 2 allirelands recently. This has nothing to do with funding or population. It is to do with kicking the ball between the posts. Dublin and Kerry traditionally collect all Irelands from psychologically weaker opponents.
This has been going on for years.

Mayo's forwards were well good enough to beat Dublin in the All Ireland final last year. First game they were the better team in almost every area of the pitch
The utterly bizarre occurrence of two own goals decided the game otherwise.

I wonder why Kildare aren't as good as Mayo. Or Donegal or Tyrone. Dinny has the Dubs figured out, but still runs away from that one every time!


There was a time, not too long ago, when Dublin played in Croke Park no more (and often less) than Meath or Kildare, so it could have been considered neutral then. However, the two pronged change of the Leinster Council fixing all Dublin games in Croker (until last year) and Dublin moving their league games to Croke Park, has clearly made it the home of the Dublin footballers.

The hurlers home is still Parnell Park. There are a number of teams who play more often in Croke Park every year than the Dubs hurlers. I don't think there's any doubt the hurlers are being hard done by with the fixing of the game in Thurles. The fact that Dublin footballers regularly get similar advantages to what the Tipp hurlers are getting is little consolation to the hurlers.  Although, perhaps similar to other footballers playing in Croke Park, the Dubs hurlers enjoy playing in Thurles even if their record there may indicate otherwise.

Runs away from what, the obvious that those 3 teams over the last 6 years have better footballers and the rub of the green against Kildare, 2011 quarter final against Donegal and O'Connors disallowed goal been the pick.  Add in better managers Harte McGuinness and Horan especially compared to the numpty Jason Ryan.

However take either of those counties and swap them with Kildare and they would not have won Leinster over the last 7 years and in Donegal's case their AI. Dublin at home is a very difficult proposition for any team, look at their record since they moved there permanently.

[The Hill is Blue]

@Syf,
My good friend it seems that you have a congenital disposition to view the glass as being half empty all the time.
Lighten up and go smell the bees and listen to the flowers and all that. (Did I get something wrong there?)
Apart from the 10% which is at the upper range IMO, you haven't found anything else wrong with what I said.

@Butt
Ten percent of Dublin's population is way more that 100% of other counties.
I honestly believe that even at 10%, the figure is inflated. I mean you have the phenomenon of the fair weather fans, the beer bellies who'll wear the jersey and take over The Hill for championship game. They make plenty of noise and add a bit of colour to the proceedings but it's back to the Premiership the next day.  Sure, they buy match tickets but that's about the limit.

@ Kilkevan
+101
That's a   post. I certainly couldn't do any better.

Lar

It's a pity that you had to spoil an otherwise well-reasoned case with a cheap cliched (and insulting) portrayal of Dublin supporters. I don't think it's your usual style.

[Hound]

Runs away from what, the obvious that those 3 teams over the last 6 years have better footballers and the rub of the green against Kildare, 2011 quarter final against Donegal and O'Connors disallowed goal been the pick.  Add in better managers Harte McGuinness and Horan especially compared to the numpty Jason Ryan.

However take either of those counties and swap them with Kildare and they would not have won Leinster over the last 7 years and in Donegal's case their AI. Dublin at home is a very difficult proposition for any team, look at their record since they moved there permanently.

Kildare played really well in that 2011 quarter, but they've been pretty awful since (until this year), in the qualfiers as well as in Leinster, and blaming Dublin for it, like you do in 90% of your posts, is ridiculous.

According to you, when Dublin have better footballers and better manager it's all to do with money and Croke Park, but when Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone have better footballers and better manager, it's because they've better footballers and better manager!

If Kildare had been in Ulster in 2012-16, they would have won feck all games just like they did in Leinster. And that wouldn't have been Dublin's fault either. It's grand wheeling out the excuses as to why you're not as good as the Dubs, but there's no excuse for not being as good as Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone - other than Kildare related issues, that have zero to do with the Dubs.

But Kildare have certainly got their house in order at underage level over the last 4/5 years and games against Dublin have generally been very close. I's good to see that this is seeping into the senior team and getting into Division One is bound to help progress. Whatever happens this year, staying up in Div 1 in 2018 and making the Super 8s should go a long way to making Kildare a force to be reckoned with.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

If Kildare had been in Ulster in 2012-16, they would have won feck all games just like they did in Leinster.

Qualifier results against Ulster teams in that period.
2012: Kildare 3-20 Cavan 1-09
2013: Tyrone 1-11 Kildare 0-12 *Joe McQuillan referee
2014: Kildare 1-18 Down 0-11
          Monaghan 2-16 Kildare 2-14 AET

2 big wins and 2 narrow unlucky losses against 2 of the big 3 up there. I reckon we would have been competitive even with Jason Ryan in charge.

[Lar Naparka]

@Syf,
My good friend it seems that you have a congenital disposition to view the glass as being half empty all the time.
Lighten up and go smell the bees and listen to the flowers and all that. (Did I get something wrong there?)
Apart from the 10% which is at the upper range IMO, you haven't found anything else wrong with what I said.

@Butt
Ten percent of Dublin's population is way more that 100% of other counties.
I honestly believe that even at 10%, the figure is inflated. I mean you have the phenomenon of the fair weather fans, the beer bellies who'll wear the jersey and take over The Hill for championship game. They make plenty of noise and add a bit of colour to the proceedings but it's back to the Premiership the next day.  Sure, they buy match tickets but that's about the limit.

@ Kilkevan
+101
That's a   post. I certainly couldn't do any better.

Lar

It's a pity that you had to spoil an otherwise well-reasoned case with a cheap cliched (and insulting) portrayal of Dublin supporters. I don't think it's your usual style.

I didn't intend what I said to be a gratuitous insult to Dubs' supporters- not by a long shot.
The 'real' Dub is about the soundest skin you can ever hope to meet and I'd put the figure at around 90% (and shut up Syferus!)
And that's not just me talking; it's a pretty widely held sentiment.
But you do have an 'in yer face'  element that bring you no credit.
Maybe you don't see this the way I do but that's natural enough as we are coming from different perspectives. Most, if not all, counties have their undesirable elements but yours are more visible than most because a) you have the greatest following, especially for championship games on your home pitch and b) such games are invariably televised.

[seafoid]

Has the recent superiority of the Dubs been marked by more than sporting excellence? I have come across a few examples of Mayo thuggery during their period of pomp in Connacht. Pour encourager les autres .

I was reading about the fall of the Aztec empire

""Throughout the siege, the Tlaxcalans waged a merciless
campaign against the Aztecs who had long oppressed them as for hundreds of years the Tlaxcalans had been forced to hand over an annual quota of young men and women to be sacrificed and eaten at the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan, and now the Tlaxcalans saw their chance for revenge."

Presumably feelings in Kildare will be not dissimilar when the Dub empire collapses.

[Dinny Breen]

Runs away from what, the obvious that those 3 teams over the last 6 years have better footballers and the rub of the green against Kildare, 2011 quarter final against Donegal and O'Connors disallowed goal been the pick.  Add in better managers Harte McGuinness and Horan especially compared to the numpty Jason Ryan.

However take either of those counties and swap them with Kildare and they would not have won Leinster over the last 7 years and in Donegal's case their AI. Dublin at home is a very difficult proposition for any team, look at their record since they moved there permanently.

Kildare played really well in that 2011 quarter, but they've been pretty awful since (until this year), in the qualfiers as well as in Leinster, and blaming Dublin for it, like you do in 90% of your posts, is ridiculous.

According to you, when Dublin have better footballers and better manager it's all to do with money and Croke Park, but when Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone have better footballers and better manager, it's because they've better footballers and better manager!

If Kildare had been in Ulster in 2012-16, they would have won feck all games just like they did in Leinster. And that wouldn't have been Dublin's fault either. It's grand wheeling out the excuses as to why you're not as good as the Dubs, but there's no excuse for not being as good as Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone - other than Kildare related issues, that have zero to do with the Dubs.

But Kildare have certainly got their house in order at underage level over the last 4/5 years and games against Dublin have generally been very close. I's good to see that this is seeping into the senior team and getting into Division One is bound to help progress. Whatever happens this year, staying up in Div 1 in 2018 and making the Super 8s should go a long way to making Kildare a force to be reckoned with.

Mate once you recognise your inorganic advantages then we can discuss Dublin and Leinster but it's fair to say without the money and without home advantage we just don't know know how good or bad Dublin would be. 

[Syferus]

@Syf,
My good friend it seems that you have a congenital disposition to view the glass as being half empty all the time.
Lighten up and go smell the bees and listen to the flowers and all that. (Did I get something wrong there?)
Apart from the 10% which is at the upper range IMO, you haven't found anything else wrong with what I said.

@Butt
Ten percent of Dublin's population is way more that 100% of other counties.
I honestly believe that even at 10%, the figure is inflated. I mean you have the phenomenon of the fair weather fans, the beer bellies who'll wear the jersey and take over The Hill for championship game. They make plenty of noise and add a bit of colour to the proceedings but it's back to the Premiership the next day.  Sure, they buy match tickets but that's about the limit.

@ Kilkevan
+101
That's a   post. I certainly couldn't do any better.

Lar

It's a pity that you had to spoil an otherwise well-reasoned case with a cheap cliched (and insulting) portrayal of Dublin supporters. I don't think it's your usual style.

I didn't intend what I said to be a gratuitous insult to Dubs' supporters- not by a long shot.
The 'real' Dub is about the soundest skin you can ever hope to meet and I'd put the figure at around 90% (and shut up Syferus!)
And that's not just me talking; it's a pretty widely held sentiment.
But you do have an 'in yer face'  element that bring you no credit.
Maybe you don't see this the way I do but that's natural enough as we are coming from different perspectives. Most, if not all, counties have their undesirable elements but yours are more visible than most because a) you have the greatest following, especially for championship games on your home pitch and b) such games are invariably televised.

Hate this glorifying of Dubs just to coat the medicine that is the facts of what they've done to the sport we love in a bit of sugar, as id that will really get them to see what everyone else can. Dubs are no worse nor no better than anyone else. If anything the soulless nature of large cities make communities and camaraderie harder to exist than in rural Ireland.

[Dave like the tv channel]

Watching Gaelic football must be a living hell for you since the return of the Dubs in 2011. Just relax, sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

Gaelic football, in general, is hard to watch nowadays. The Dublin playing style goes against the grain. The pretence that this is something created by the Dubs is a joke. It's a gaa marketing wet dream that was created & funded in CP. Why would CP worry about the 28,000 (or so) people in Leitrim, when they have 1,500,000 to love them in Dublin?

[TheGreatest]

Dublin play the best brand of football ever seen, Barcelona-esque beautifulness , elegance.

No team will ever come close to this , its the pinnacle of football.

[mup]

Dublin play the best brand of football ever scene, Barcelona-esque beautifulness , elegance.

No team will ever come close to this , its the pinnacle of football.

But most Dubs don't realise there was football before 2011. The GAA was founded in 1884. I know you find that hard to believe.

[TheGreatest]

Dublin play the best brand of football ever scene, Barcelona-esque beautifulness , elegance.

No team will ever come close to this , its the pinnacle of football.

But most Dubs don't realise there was football before 2011. The GAA was founded in 1884. I know you find that hard to believe.

Don't think that's true now mate. Most fans remember the baron years. An example is 96 to 2010, when Dublin were walloped up and down Croke park in the latter stage of the championship. Another is 84 to 94, relative success without the big one were the lost 4 all Ireland finals in that 10 year period.

[Lar Naparka]

@Syf,
My good friend it seems that you have a congenital disposition to view the glass as being half empty all the time.
Lighten up and go smell the bees and listen to the flowers and all that. (Did I get something wrong there?)
Apart from the 10% which is at the upper range IMO, you haven't found anything else wrong with what I said.

@Butt
Ten percent of Dublin's population is way more that 100% of other counties.
I honestly believe that even at 10%, the figure is inflated. I mean you have the phenomenon of the fair weather fans, the beer bellies who'll wear the jersey and take over The Hill for championship game. They make plenty of noise and add a bit of colour to the proceedings but it's back to the Premiership the next day.  Sure, they buy match tickets but that's about the limit.

@ Kilkevan
+101
That's a   post. I certainly couldn't do any better.

Lar

It's a pity that you had to spoil an otherwise well-reasoned case with a cheap cliched (and insulting) portrayal of Dublin supporters. I don't think it's your usual style.

I didn't intend what I said to be a gratuitous insult to Dubs' supporters- not by a long shot.
The 'real' Dub is about the soundest skin you can ever hope to meet and I'd put the figure at around 90% (and shut up Syferus!)
And that's not just me talking; it's a pretty widely held sentiment.
But you do have an 'in yer face'  element that bring you no credit.
Maybe you don't see this the way I do but that's natural enough as we are coming from different perspectives. Most, if not all, counties have their undesirable elements but yours are more visible than most because a) you have the greatest following, especially for championship games on your home pitch and b) such games are invariably televised.

Hate this glorifying of Dubs just to coat the medicine that is the facts of what they've done to the sport we love in a bit of sugar, as id that will really get them to see what everyone else can. Dubs are no worse nor no better than anyone else. If anything the soulless nature of large cities make communities and camaraderie harder to exist than in rural Ireland.

I can see your point Syf but I doubt that you see mine.
What we have is unsustainable; 40% of the people of the Republic reside in the Greater Dublin Area so to all intents and purposes they are represented by just one team.
(I know there is an overspill into South Meath and East Kildare but the flags flying in Dunshaughlin and Ashbourne are 90% Dub. Of course the present Dub team is the best of all time.
Who else could afford to spend the GDP of a banana republic on the preparation of a side? Money no object and it matters, no matter what others might say.
The present set up is neither good for Dublin or for the other 31 counties. The first one is pretty obvious, the second one is not quite so apparent but it is crucial that it be addressed sooner rather than later.
Of course the Dubs have a huge following, 10% of the general public would still be far greater than the 90% of sheep shaggers that had muzzy heads and sore throats but were still deliriously happy last Monday morning.
In common or garden terms, the GAA "penetration" in Roscommon and other rural counties is many times greater than it is in Dublin. Also, with only one senior team to represent the county, hundreds of players will never get the chance to play intercounty football and many will drift away and will be no longer an asset to the GAA. Paying out huge coaching grants to Dub GAA is putting the cart before the horse. It will further increase the gap I playing standards between Dublin and the rest but it will not, on its own, entice one single individual to play Gaelic football.
Its makes an already bad situation many times worse and its benefits (to the Dubs) are going to be short lived.
But you can't blame Dublin supporters for the problems we are discussing- no bloody way. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, y'know. A rapidly increasing population in Dublin and a dwindling one in most rural counties has nothing to do with Gaelic football.
The vast majority of Dubs on the board are as sound as they come. You can't expect them to go about carving up their beloved county to make things easier for everyone else.
It's up to your county board and mine and every other one as well to stop whining and get moving. Of course there should be a demand to split Dublin into two or more units but there also has to be the realisation that changes are needed elsewhere such as certain counties amalgamating.
The model used in 1884 is no longer fit for purpose and changes are needed but stop blaming Dub supporters when the onus is on all county boards to force change.

[Rossfan]

Good post Lar.(as usual).
2016 population of the Dublin regions in Round figures
Dublin City 554k, Final 297k, South Dublin 297k, DL-Rathdown 218k.
To compare
Ros 64k, Sligo 65k, Leitrim 32k.
Just wondering will the Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon combination be called North Connacht or East Connacht?

[The Hill is Blue]

@Syf,
My good friend it seems that you have a congenital disposition to view the glass as being half empty all the time.
Lighten up and go smell the bees and listen to the flowers and all that. (Did I get something wrong there?)
Apart from the 10% which is at the upper range IMO, you haven't found anything else wrong with what I said.

@Butt
Ten percent of Dublin's population is way more that 100% of other counties.
I honestly believe that even at 10%, the figure is inflated. I mean you have the phenomenon of the fair weather fans, the beer bellies who'll wear the jersey and take over The Hill for championship game. They make plenty of noise and add a bit of colour to the proceedings but it's back to the Premiership the next day.  Sure, they buy match tickets but that's about the limit.

@ Kilkevan
+101
That's a   post. I certainly couldn't do any better.

Lar

It's a pity that you had to spoil an otherwise well-reasoned case with a cheap cliched (and insulting) portrayal of Dublin supporters. I don't think it's your usual style.

I didn't intend what I said to be a gratuitous insult to Dubs' supporters- not by a long shot.
The 'real' Dub is about the soundest skin you can ever hope to meet and I'd put the figure at around 90% (and shut up Syferus!)
And that's not just me talking; it's a pretty widely held sentiment.
But you do have an 'in yer face'  element that bring you no credit.
Maybe you don't see this the way I do but that's natural enough as we are coming from different perspectives. Most, if not all, counties have their undesirable elements but yours are more visible than most because a) you have the greatest following, especially for championship games on your home pitch and b) such games are invariably televised.

Hate this glorifying of Dubs just to coat the medicine that is the facts of what they've done to the sport we love in a bit of sugar, as id that will really get them to see what everyone else can. Dubs are no worse nor no better than anyone else. If anything the soulless nature of large cities make communities and camaraderie harder to exist than in rural Ireland.

I can see your point Syf but I doubt that you see mine.
What we have is unsustainable; 40% of the people of the Republic reside in the Greater Dublin Area so to all intents and purposes they are represented by just one team.
(I know there is an overspill into South Meath and East Kildare but the flags flying in Dunshaughlin and Ashbourne are 90% Dub. Of course the present Dub team is the best of all time.
Who else could afford to spend the GDP of a banana republic on the preparation of a side? Money no object and it matters, no matter what others might say.
The present set up is neither good for Dublin or for the other 31 counties. The first one is pretty obvious, the second one is not quite so apparent but it is crucial that it be addressed sooner rather than later.
Of course the Dubs have a huge following, 10% of the general public would still be far greater than the 90% of sheep shaggers that had muzzy heads and sore throats but were still deliriously happy last Monday morning.
In common or garden terms, the GAA "penetration" in Roscommon and other rural counties is many times greater than it is in Dublin. Also, with only one senior team to represent the county, hundreds of players will never get the chance to play intercounty football and many will drift away and will be no longer an asset to the GAA. Paying out huge coaching grants to Dub GAA is putting the cart before the horse. It will further increase the gap I playing standards between Dublin and the rest but it will not, on its own, entice one single individual to play Gaelic football.
Its makes an already bad situation many times worse and its benefits (to the Dubs) are going to be short lived.
But you can't blame Dublin supporters for the problems we are discussing- no bloody way. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, y'know. A rapidly increasing population in Dublin and a dwindling one in most rural counties has nothing to do with Gaelic football.
The vast majority of Dubs on the board are as sound as they come. You can't expect them to go about carving up their beloved county to make things easier for everyone else.
It's up to your county board and mine and every other one as well to stop whining and get moving. Of course there should be a demand to split Dublin into two or more units but there also has to be the realisation that changes are needed elsewhere such as certain counties amalgamating.
The model used in 1884 is no longer fit for purpose and changes are needed but stop blaming Dub supporters when the onus is on all county boards to force change.

+1