China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

As has been pointed out numerous times - no one has ignored the flu in 2017/18. It's been explained to you everyway with links, reports and comments.

You just want to throw out a month to reduce figures!
Will we exclude anymore periods for you to form an argument?

So were you advocating lockdowns in 2017/18 winter flu season?

Did you find that level of deaths acceptable?

Should we lockdown every winter to save lives from flu?

There are simple questions with yes/no answers you don't have the courage to answer and  avoid as they unmask your double standards. This is the crux of the matter.

Hypocrites putting themselves up on a pedestal pontificating about saving lives when they could not give a toss.

Angelo - the only thing you care about is yourself and what suits you. On every thread you post on this board you argue, shout, ignore and insult others. Every single one. There is a common denominator there. You. You don't give a rats arse about Flu, mental health or anything else. Only yourself. I'm sure you're so insecure that you need to shout and reassure yourself you are important but really you're just a mouth who takes no responsibility for anything.

And to answer your questions.

No - wasn't advocating for lockdown in 2017/18. There was already lot know on flu, measures in place and in ROI the increase in death caused by that flu season was an additional 50 deaths. Tragic in itself but not at levels that requires lockdown measures.

Death isn't acceptable. But there is measures in place by Governments, globally, to measure the risk or new and unknowns threats. When a storm comes, for example, in the US, they will consider it and issue the threat level and categorise the storm. This considers the risk to life. According, the relevant steps are taken to minimise the risk to life - death isn't accepted. Covid was a pandemic. It's been unprecedented since the Spanish flu. It's a variant of past covid outbreaks that, thankfully, never reached the same scale e.g. SARS. It was unknown, highly contagious and deadly. Despite all the measures taken, it has globally killed millions. It's lasting effects are also unknown on the health of people. It's an ongoing battle with some hope in the form of vaccines and it's why I'll take it in a heart beat as I consider death unacceptable and if it helps, then all and good. Death is in in accepted in all walks of life and we have rules and regulations to manage this - rules of the road, building regulations, food standards, etc etc. It's in every walk of life and has manifested itself over time. Covid has allowed time to allow such. It's sudden and borderless.

Should we lockdown ever winter for flu - no. As above and previously, there is widespread measures in place for Flu and they been addressed further every year. For covid we are years back but making unprecedented progress to catch up to a level to mitigate the risks and put it at the level of the Flu. In 2017/18 flu season in ROI there was just over 50 excess deaths from the previous flu season. In total was less than 200 across all months. We've had more than that this week already with Covid WITH unprecedented restrictions. It's really not hard to understand.

Other posters have put it better but you aren't comparing like with like. I've a 12 year old at home who can grasp the importance of the restrictions. He is missing out so much and my heart breaks at times for them but he can understand and appreciate  the risk to his Nanny, to others, to the wider  community and shows maturity beyond his years (like tens of thousands of others his age) and willingness to do his part for this period to get things back to normal.

You had a platform to answer those questions with clarity and you failed to take that opportunity. It's no surprise to me that you have as I preempted doing so would expose your contradictions.

Do you want to give it another ago?

Do you maybe want to tell a 12 year old that 50% of the deaths in your state were nursing home residents and that after all the importance of the restrictions they went along with the government couldn't do their job and protect the vulnerable.

I give the same rats ass about mental health, flu etc as you do but I'm not a big enough of a hypocrite to insult and demean those people who were impacted by that to tell them that their lives were meaningless.

[Louther]

Angelo, you're a piece of sh*t.

If you can't read, I'm not surprised, that your problem, not mine.

You've tried before to pin at door of hospital and nursing Homes for not keeping Covid out. They've have battled and battled this from day 1 and done everything they can at front line level to keep it out and this started with the community. When it gets rampant in the community if can't be kept out of the hospitals, they've tried impossibly to do so. And that wasn't down to Government, that was down to efforts of nurses, doctors, carers etc. Real honest people who done everything possible.

As for you comment on my 12 year old. He knows the measures been taken to keep people same. He don't see his Mum for 4 weeks in the first lockdown, she a ICU horse who went into 2 different nursing homes in HSE teams, to combat outbreaks. She stayed away as it was impossible to avoid it and wasn't willing to take it home or into the community. We know the measures that been taken in this area to keep it out and it's impossible.

[Angelo]

Angelo, you're a piece of sh*t.

If you can't read, I'm not surprised, that your problem, not mine.

You've tried before to pin at door of hospital and nursing Homes for not keeping Covid out. They've have battled and battled this from day 1 and done everything they can at front line level to keep it out and this started with the community. When it gets rampant in the community if can't be kept out of the hospitals, they've tried impossibly to do so. And that wasn't down to Government, that was down to efforts of nurses, doctors, carers etc. Real honest people who done everything possible.

As for you comment on my 12 year old. He knows the measures been taken to keep people same. He don't see his Mum for 4 weeks in the first lockdown, she a ICU horse who went into 2 different nursing homes in HSE teams, to combat outbreaks. She stayed away as it was impossible to avoid it and wasn't willing to take it home or into the community. We know the measures that been taken in this area to keep it out and it's impossible.

I've pinned the blame at the door of the government. You should maybe leave your insults at the door and do some research.

Maybe listen to the anger from the INMO and how they put the blame fully at the door of the HSE for the outbreaks in hospitals. Read this before you call me names again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-covid-5324012-Jan2021/

So if you want to talk about real honest people then why don't you listen to the ones who are the ones on the front line and are the ones pointing the finger at government for the hospital outbreaks. Doesn't suit your narrative though, does it?

[Louther]

Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.

[Angelo]

Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.

So you're saying the INMO, the main union which represents nurse and midwives made it all up? Why? Because your "wife" said so.

You seem to be advocating your 12 year old and your wife as experts. Is your friend, the immunologist the next to come in to add to your anecdotal library?

Do you think that February 2021 was a bit late to bring rapid antigen testing to hospitals? I suppose you're going to give the government and health sector another free pass on that disaster?

It's clear as day you are a complete spoofer.

[trueblue1234]

So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.

What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

[Angelo]

So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.

What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

[dublin7]

Just a quick one for everyone on their current thinking -

Do you as things stand, see March being the end of lockdown both North and South?

I'm feeling like it could well be, things seem to be going down. I don't expect either jurisdiction to ease anything in February. I don't expect them to open everything March (maybe most things by the end of it). Where do you see it?

In the south I expect construction to re-start in March and they'll be hoping to get the schools re-opened. It's obviously hard to predict but you would hope retail and cafes, restaurants etc with outdoor eating areas could re-open in April. 

[Louther]

Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.

So you're saying the INMO, the main union which represents nurse and midwives made it all up? Why? Because your "wife" said so.

You seem to be advocating your 12 year old and your wife as experts. Is your friend, the immunologist the next to come in to add to your anecdotal library?

Do you think that February 2021 was a bit late to bring rapid antigen testing to hospitals? I suppose you're going to give the government and health sector another free pass on that disaster?

It's clear as day you are a complete spoofer.

Believe what you want but I know what I've said is accurate. The INMO statement got no traction, even opposition parties didn't go to town on it. Maybe I'll ask my Chemical Engineering friend for his thoughts.

The antigen tests are only a screening test and not near accurate enough and that's why they slow to introduce. All hospitals had access to submit lab tests for staff and patients and used it extensively. It's slower but a more reliable result and less risk to infection entering system that you so worried about. By all means as a first defence it could have been introduced earlier but large % of health staff where reluctant. Even your much loved INMO aren't convinced by it.

As for been a spoofer, maybe I am. But I can see as plain as day that no one actually agrees with what you post across realms of pots by yourself on various topics. Always conflict, the absolute definition of a spoofer.

Off to ring my Chemical Engineering friend here. 

[Milltown Row2]

So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.

What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

End of June, kids were off school and the weather allowed people to go outside, the pubs were still closed, eating only allowed in most and some never opened. No holidays so the virus was being kept in the one area, end of August it came back and hasn't went away, the 2 months of summer and kids going back created more transmissions more cases and more deaths.

Its not flu nor is it seasonal unless the season is June to August like you have pointed out... That's some season of despair

[armaghniac]

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

[Angelo]

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

[johnnycool]

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

[Angelo]

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

So you'd put the blame at the schools? Not getting at you as such but just wondering if that's the key factor in how the virus ramped up quickly when it had been so slow in Jun/July/Aug and early Sept.

[johnnycool]

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

So you'd put the blame at the schools? Not getting at you as such but just wondering if that's the key factor in how the virus ramped up quickly when it had been so slow in Jun/July/Aug and early Sept.

Not sure of any other community activities that kicked in and around in September that might have caused it. Remember that Covid has roughly a two or three week gestation period and that causes the lag from cause to effect.

There's only so many GAA celebrations about at that time.