Brexit.

[armaghniac]

Very silly to think that because DUP don't like it it must be good. This is a real issue, people aren't viewing this deal for what it is. You know when you see stuff like not available in NI and it pisses you off? Expect loads more of that. If it is available expect it to cost more.
Barriers to trade mean delay, that means extra costs, higher prices and ultimately uncompetitiveness.
But look let's see if it passes first.

Once you have Brexit you have these problems. We'd all like to stop Brexit entirely, but we can't, and given that we can't then this deal is the next best thing.

[Franko]

Was always highly critical of most of the moves made by Fine Gael but credit where it's due, Varadkar and Coveney have played a fairly shit had pretty flawlessly here.

Serious kudos to them for how they've handled it.  They have come across as decisive, statesmanlike and with an edge to them that says they wont be pushed around.

I also think this has put to bed the notion that SF and the DUP are two sides of the same coin.  The one thing that was guaranteed to bring about a UI (in short order) was a hard border.  But SF put the sectarian hat away (and they do have one at times) and backed the horse which was best for the people of Ireland.

The same can't be said for the DUP, to their eternal discredit.  I think they'll pay dearly for this one and to paraphrase my grandmother "hell rub it up them". 

[Franko]

I don't think this is a good deal. I'm worried about barriers East West. Declarations, tarrifs, trusted trader schemes paperwork etc. I appreciate that it does avoid a hard border which is key but a NI only backstop would be a better solution. This deal I feel isolates NI from GB and the EU. It could be the worst of both worlds.

Not often I agree with you, but I'm broadly of the same attitude.

Its a terrible deal for NI.

A crash out no deal might even be better - as it would get folks backs up over being clearly and obviously hung out by the English and have many unionists (with a small u) seriously looking at a border poll. Whereas with this, its a bit more nefarious and nebulous enough for the DUP to sell the economic basket case as not of their or Westminster's doing - all Dublin's fault etc etc.

Why??

I was thinking the same!

How is it a terrible deal for NI?

No hard border
Close ties with main trading partner
Will benefit from any trading deals UK strikes
Strong chance companies will invest in NI due to links with EU and UK

Have I missed something?

I am in agreement with yourself,  I was thinking why some thought it was a bad deal for NI.

General rule is if the DUP don't like it then it must be good lol.

No fan of Boris or tories but it's stupid when the likes of Labour or snp come out and say the deal is horrible or worse than May's deal without stating any examples as to why its bad. Its almost child like, I don't like it, why, not saying why.

Very silly to think that because DUP don't like it it must be good. This is a real issue, people aren't viewing this deal for what it is. You know when you see stuff like not available in NI and it pisses you off? Expect loads more of that. If it is available expect it to cost more.
Barriers to trade mean delay, that means extra costs, higher prices and ultimately uncompetitiveness.
But look let's see if it passes first.

You've totally misread the room here (unsurprisingly  ).  Nobody thinks this deal is a 'good' thing.

But it's the least shit option on the table right now.

[Rossfan]

Exactly.
The best deal was the silly Brits staying in the EU.

[seafoid]

Was always highly critical of most of the moves made by Fine Gael but credit where it's due, Varadkar and Coveney have played a fairly shit had pretty flawlessly here.

Serious kudos to them for how they've handled it.  They have come across as decisive, statesmanlike and with an edge to them that says they wont be pushed around.

I also think this has put to bed the notion that SF and the DUP are two sides of the same coin.  The one thing that was guaranteed to bring about a UI (in short order) was a hard border.  But SF put the sectarian hat away (and they do have one at times) and backed the horse which was best for the people of Ireland.

The same can't be said for the DUP, to their eternal discredit.  I think they'll pay dearly for this one and to paraphrase my grandmother "hell rub it up them". 

The Department of Foreign Affairs played a blinder going back before the referendum. they did  tour of the capitals well before the vote presenting the Irish case. It took a lot of work to get Juncker and Barnier to say that there could be no hard border on the island of Ireland. It was fantastic to see all of the Irish parties North and South working together for the sake of peace on the border. In 1969 the Dublin govt didn't know anything about politics in the North.

Claire Hanna is very solid re the DUP in this clip   

https://twitter.com/ClaireHanna/status/1185224083883081728

[seafoid]

2 huge matches tomorrow

Remain vs Leave
and
Ireland vs NZ

[From the Bunker]

2 huge matches tomorrow

Remain vs Leave
and
Ireland vs NZ

In a way they are both Remain v Leave.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Sinn Féin are an irrelevance. Banging bin lids at the border, james mc clean shirts at Brussels, school boy politicians. Don't see myself as either a FF or FGer but my God the difference in standard of politician south of the border is stark. We have a pile of sub standard politicians up here who are only there because the Brits pushed them to where they are.

You hate SF - fair enough but you're blinkered by saying politicans in south are a class apart.  Look at the health service, the new children's hospital, not to mention the housing/ homelessness crisis.

Look at Boris across the way, then check out Mr. Trump in America - great characters who are in the top role.

I think you just want a dig at SF for whatever reason.

We have all those problems and worse here in Galliagh. I first  got vote in 91. Armed struggle was still going on, SF had 10%, I voted them every year without exception until last year.

Then the blinkers came off. Bullies, jobs for the boys, robots, money grabbers, abortion, welfare reform. My city is going down tubes under Elisha dolittle. She hasn't  titter of wit..come up here to the city to see the drugs, suicide, shite jobs etc under their watch. Banging binlids on the border ffs. Whilst men are lining up at the bridge. See the boys who fought the fight drinking themselves to death whilst the careers men get cushy community jobs.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I don't think this is a good deal. I'm worried about barriers East West. Declarations, tarrifs, trusted trader schemes paperwork etc. I appreciate that it does avoid a hard border which is key but a NI only backstop would be a better solution. This deal I feel isolates NI from GB and the EU. It could be the worst of both worlds.

Not often I agree with you, but I'm broadly of the same attitude.

Its a terrible deal for NI.

A crash out no deal might even be better - as it would get folks backs up over being clearly and obviously hung out by the English and have many unionists (with a small u) seriously looking at a border poll. Whereas with this, its a bit more nefarious and nebulous enough for the DUP to sell the economic basket case as not of their or Westminster's doing - all Dublin's fault etc etc.

Why??

I was thinking the same!

1. Cost of importing from UK is going to rise significantly (processing tax).
2. Cost of exporting to EU is going to rise significantly (processing tax that can be reclaimed).
3. No long term regulatory alignment. Businesses can not and will not invest millions/billions whenever the entire tax and regulatory landscape could shift within 4 years via Stormont.
4. Divergence from UK regulations over time. So then NI is aligned to EU, on a consistently temporary basis and not aligned to UK, also on a consistently temporary basis.

3 and 4 are the big ones. Investment will stagnate as everyone will be scared to commit much.

Backstop offered much better basis for long term decisions.

[seafoid]

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/The-economic-impact-of-Boris-Johnsons-Brexit-proposals.pdf

[Dougal Maguire]

Sinn Féin are an irrelevance. Banging bin lids at the border, james mc clean shirts at Brussels, school boy politicians. Don't see myself as either a FF or FGer but my God the difference in standard of politician south of the border is stark. We have a pile of sub standard politicians up here who are only there because the Brits pushed them to where they are.

You hate SF - fair enough but you're blinkered by saying politicans in south are a class apart.  Look at the health service, the new children's hospital, not to mention the housing/ homelessness crisis.

Look at Boris across the way, then check out Mr. Trump in America - great characters who are in the top role.

I think you just want a dig at SF for whatever reason.

We have all those problems and worse here in Galliagh. I first  got vote in 91. Armed struggle was still going on, SF had 10%, I voted them every year without exception until last year.

Then the blinkers came off. Bullies, jobs for the boys, robots, money grabbers, abortion, welfare reform. My city is going down tubes under Elisha dolittle. She hasn't  titter of wit..come up here to the city to see the drugs, suicide, shite jobs etc under their watch. Banging binlids on the border ffs. Whilst men are lining up at the bridge. See the boys who fought the fight drinking themselves to death whilst the careers men get cushy community jobs.

A big disingenuous to blame  Elisha McCallion for years of neglect given she's only been MP for the area for a short time. The SDLP has held the seat for years so surely some, if not all, of your angst should be pointed in that general direction

[Dougal Maguire]

As a matter of interest, if UK leaves on 31 October, do the  MEPs cease from that date and, given the nes arrangements for NI does it's MEPs remain in power

[Main Street]

If Boris can get the ERG, and some Labour party rebels onboard, then it would be very tight.

This so called deal is doomed.
I don't get why northern nationalists are clinging to the remnants of the arse end of british imperialism to do right by them.  Has recent decades of subvention addiction affected rational perspective?

The whole focus is on what the DUP demands, there's not a peep out of NI nationalists, It's left up to EU representatives to explain that a DUP veto is not an inevitability to be endured and suffered but one  can choose another way.

I think you're forgetting the "great work" Martina Anderson has done for Sinn Fein in Brussels!!!

John Campbell of BBC NI, I think he's their Brexit Business expert said as much last night even if you are being sarcastic 

Sinn Fein had a big say in the EU's Brexit steering committee as can be seen how the democratic mandate requested by the DUP/UK for the people of Northern Ireland was changed from what in reality was a DUP Veto to a simple majority in Stormont and far from a DUP veto.

Afair the EU reps picked up on the negative importance of the DUP veto clause before a sneeze could be heard on rte about it. But in general most of the EU representatives I have heard interviewed have an understanding of the GFA and a great respect for it. It's all well and good  that Martina explains perspectives but these EU reps have the nous to understand the GFA, appreciate what it's all about and talk about it intelligently.

I think all the Irish politicians of varying nationalist hue and shades of green (FG,FF,SF,SDLP,Lab) can compliment themselves on a job well done (so far). It's rare thing to see in Irish politics everyone towing the party line. They can tear lumps out of each other on other matters but they played this one very well and there was for the most part a united front at all times.

I am not talking about how the  Fine Gael duo have played the cards, I was(indirectly) referring to their actual instinctive knowledge of the GFA. Johnson proposed the first deal deal on Oct 2 with the beside the border controls, the UDP gave an ecstatic stamp of approval. Alarm bells all round you would have thought.  The headline details were reported on Irish radio on that morning, including mention of Stormont approval needed after 4 years. All day long in the continuos stream of news feeds including updates from Varadkar and Coveney, neither of them spotted the significance of  Stormont approval needed,  this so called deal effectively dismantled large parts of the GFA, handed the veto to the UDP and not a peep out of Varadkar until the following day, when Varadkar added on at the end of his list of reservations, a mention of the consent issue.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Sinn Féin are an irrelevance. Banging bin lids at the border, james mc clean shirts at Brussels, school boy politicians. Don't see myself as either a FF or FGer but my God the difference in standard of politician south of the border is stark. We have a pile of sub standard politicians up here who are only there because the Brits pushed them to where they are.

You hate SF - fair enough but you're blinkered by saying politicans in south are a class apart.  Look at the health service, the new children's hospital, not to mention the housing/ homelessness crisis.

Look at Boris across the way, then check out Mr. Trump in America - great characters who are in the top role.

I think you just want a dig at SF for whatever reason.

We have all those problems and worse here in Galliagh. I first  got vote in 91. Armed struggle was still going on, SF had 10%, I voted them every year without exception until last year.

Then the blinkers came off. Bullies, jobs for the boys, robots, money grabbers, abortion, welfare reform. My city is going down tubes under Elisha dolittle. She hasn't  titter of wit..come up here to the city to see the drugs, suicide, shite jobs etc under their watch. Banging binlids on the border ffs. Whilst men are lining up at the bridge. See the boys who fought the fight drinking themselves to death whilst the careers men get cushy community jobs.

A big disingenuous to blame  Elisha McCallion for years of neglect given she's only been MP for the area for a short time. The SDLP has held the seat for years so surely some, if not all, of your angst should be pointed in that general direction

Mere to i tell you mucker if you aren't from the City don't get into it with me.

She is in the job ciz she is Martina Anderson niece. She's not to blame for her husband battery 2 pensioners but she is to blame for trying to get them to drop charges.

John Hume was last person to  bring jobs to Derry. SDLP have many faults but you can't apportion one of those things I listed against them

[Eamonnca1]

House of Commons to vote through withdrawal agreement on October 19:

Yes: 4/5
No: 6/5

I wonder if a second referendum can be attached to it as a condition for some opposition support.