A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[charlieTully]

And don't mention the anthem, they only hear it in Ballyhaunis once a year when there's a championship match on.

The anthem isn't an issue in the free state. Only in the north would I be in favour of dropping it at matches.

Be careful what you wish for!
Inclusion is of paramount importance , and we should continue to work at welcoming everybody particularly minorities. However that needn't be at the expense of our Irish ethos.
We punch way above our weight as a sport , dwarfing major worldwide sports on this island. A major motivation for most of our best volunteers and a subconscious motivation for all involved is the patriotic attachment of the organisation. If we drop all or many of the trappings of Irishness it may not attract minorities to any great extent, but it could undermine our volunteer base.

Given its supremacy, the GAA punches at exactly its weight in the country. There are plenty of examples of local sports being massively popular in one or two countries, it really doesn't matter a jot how popular another is internationally if that native sport is already established.

The GAA is no underdog and that is no excuse not reflect the Ireland of 2018 rather than the one that exsisted when a bunch of revolutionaries had a knees up in Hayes' in the 1880s. The identity of Ireland has changed and the GAA needs to as well.

If you think there's much attachment to the patriotic element of the GAA outside the six counties you're sorely mistaken. It's just sport and local communities in the other 26. The club and county flags mean far more to me in the GAA than the tri colour. First it was being afraid of foreign sports, then it was of cops playing the sport, now the boogeyman is some imagined loss of white Catholic culture if we do the things that will allow us to reach out to other groups in the future. This is all very remeincent of the retoric used by Trump's supporters when talking about the changing face of America and the decline of WASPs' influence - not a favourable comparison for anyone.

And if someone is only in GAA so tennously that making it less politically charged and open in the north turns them away, good night and good riddance to those people. They don't reflect my ethos and attachment to the GAA in any way, shape or form.

But at the end of the day you are a west brit tr**p with an ethos not much better than Ruth Dudley Edwards. Your ethos  means fu k all to the majority of people I know. I'd love too meet you in the flesh.

[Avondhu star]

And don't mention the anthem, they only hear it in Ballyhaunis once a year when there's a championship match on.

The anthem isn't an issue in the free state. Only in the north would I be in favour of dropping it at matches.

Be careful what you wish for!
Inclusion is of paramount importance , and we should continue to work at welcoming everybody particularly minorities. However that needn't be at the expense of our Irish ethos.
We punch way above our weight as a sport , dwarfing major worldwide sports on this island. A major motivation for most of our best volunteers and a subconscious motivation for all involved is the patriotic attachment of the organisation. If we drop all or many of the trappings of Irishness it may not attract minorities to any great extent, but it could undermine our volunteer base.

Given its supremacy, the GAA punches at exactly its weight in the country. There are plenty of examples of local sports being massively popular in one or two countries, it really doesn't matter a jot how popular another is internationally if that native sport is already established.

The GAA is no underdog and that is no excuse not reflect the Ireland of 2018 rather than the one that exsisted when a bunch of revolutionaries had a knees up in Hayes' in the 1880s. The identity of Ireland has changed and the GAA needs to as well.

If you think there's much attachment to the patriotic element of the GAA outside the six counties you're sorely mistaken. It's just sport and local communities in the other 26. The club and county flags mean far more to me in the GAA than the tri colour. First it was being afraid of foreign sports, then it was of cops playing the sport, now the boogeyman is some imagined loss of white Catholic culture if we do the things that will allow us to reach out to other groups in the future. This is all very remeincent of the retoric used by Trump's supporters when talking about the changing face of America and the decline of WASPs' influence - not a favourable comparison for anyone.

And if someone is only in GAA so tennously that making it less politically charged and open in the north turns them away, good night and good riddance to those people. They don't reflect my ethos and attachment to the GAA in any way, shape or form.

You obviously weren't at any of the magnificent 1916 commemorations held not only in Croke Park but at most gaa clubs up and down the country. The part played by the younger generation in these commemorations was really impressive from reading the proclamation, singing the national anthem or playing parts in the military pageants. There is a very obvious link between G.A.A. members and nationalism

[seafoid]

And don't mention the anthem, they only hear it in Ballyhaunis once a year when there's a championship match on.

The anthem isn't an issue in the free state. Only in the north would I be in favour of dropping it at matches.

Be careful what you wish for!
Inclusion is of paramount importance , and we should continue to work at welcoming everybody particularly minorities. However that needn't be at the expense of our Irish ethos.
We punch way above our weight as a sport , dwarfing major worldwide sports on this island. A major motivation for most of our best volunteers and a subconscious motivation for all involved is the patriotic attachment of the organisation. If we drop all or many of the trappings of Irishness it may not attract minorities to any great extent, but it could undermine our volunteer base.

Given its supremacy, the GAA punches at exactly its weight in the country. There are plenty of examples of local sports being massively popular in one or two countries, it really doesn't matter a jot how popular another is internationally if that native sport is already established.

The GAA is no underdog and that is no excuse not reflect the Ireland of 2018 rather than the one that exsisted when a bunch of revolutionaries had a knees up in Hayes' in the 1880s. The identity of Ireland has changed and the GAA needs to as well.

If you think there's much attachment to the patriotic element of the GAA outside the six counties you're sorely mistaken. It's just sport and local communities in the other 26. The club and county flags mean far more to me in the GAA than the tri colour. First it was being afraid of foreign sports, then it was of cops playing the sport, now the boogeyman is some imagined loss of white Catholic culture if we do the things that will allow us to reach out to other groups in the future. This is all very remeincent of the retoric used by Trump's supporters when talking about the changing face of America and the decline of WASPs' influence - not a favourable comparison for anyone.

And if someone is only in GAA so tennously that making it less politically charged and open in the north turns them away, good night and good riddance to those people. They don't reflect my ethos and attachment to the GAA in any way, shape or form.

But at the end of the day you are a west brit tr**p with an ethos not much better than Ruth Dudley Edwards. Your ethos  means fu k all to the majority of people I know. I'd love too meet you in the flesh.

If Leitrim took over Roscommon in a war and

banned the primrose and  blue
Made fun of people who said Riscommon
Removed the Dermot Earley statue and replaced it with one of Packie McGarty
Renamed Ros as South Leitrim
Forced everyone on Shannon side to use the term

Syf would see things differently

[Keyser soze]

So 13% of kids in underage kids are from different backgrounds and the club regularly runs blitzes that attract loads of nonwhitecatholic kids but on the other hand the Gaa's Trumpesque attitudes are ensuring that minorities are excluded. How can anyone write as much dung as you do and expect to be taken seriously. You are so full of shit u are goinna choke on it.

[Rossfan]

Has Syfīn allowed Tony F to use his account?
He used to be a half baked wildly optimistic Ros fan (+ Mayowestros,  Galway hurlers, St Brigids. .....) but now he's gone into a WUM of the highest order.
His new hobby horse is blaming the GAA for promoting "White Irish Catholic culture" whatever that is.
As 98% of Irish people are white, 70% would class themselves Catholic, 90% are Irish born .....
I suppose the GAA could get all their clubs to play soccer, get their catholic members to convert to some other religions and try and get citizenship of some other Countries.

[Farrandeelin]

Has Syfīn allowed Tony F to use his account?
He used to be a half baked wildly optimistic Ros fan (+ Mayowestros,  Galway hurlers, St Brigids. .....) but now he's gone into a WUM of the highest order.
His new hobby horse is blaming the GAA for promoting "White Irish Catholic culture" whatever that is.
As 98% of Irish people are white, 70% would class themselves Catholic, 90% are Irish born .....
I suppose the GAA could get all their clubs to play soccer, get their catholic members to convert to some other religions and try and get citizenship of some other Countries.

You forgot to mention he agrees that the two communities in the North have common culture.

[Rossfan]

Whingy whiny accents???

[smelmoth]

there are huge swathes of nationalist kids in both Derry and Belfast not in the gaa fold, surely the aim should be get all our own first before licking the holes of any loyalist knackers to play GAA

Fair play to you for setting out how you feel. I get the impression there are others who agree with you but are too embarrassed to admit to it.

By setting out that Catholic kids outside the GAA fold our "own" but Protestants living alongside them are not you are already setting out the organisation as a catholic one. An unhelpful starting position.

To dress up some minor changes you are being asked to make as "licking the holes of some loyalist knackers" probably means you are not going to be at the vanguard of moving this place forward

The GAA can't and won't be forced to make the necessary changes. But if it takes that intransigent stance then it will come at a price

We know that the UK civil service is looking at housing, schooling and public expenditure in NI to try to reduce the long term deficit. In that regard there is a realisation that funding segregated housing, segregated schooling and capital projects that maintain cultural separation is a bad use of public funds (as more funds have to be found to manage the ongoing impacts of the lack of social cohesion).

If you don't reach out to unionism you won't be able to reach out for the cheque. The choice is yours

Google "Cantrell Close"

Know it only too well.

It's the problem writ large

So what are going to do about it

Sit back and do nothing and your cowardice betrays the generation coming behind you.
Retaliation that displays the same bigotry is even more cowardly and betrays society to an even greater extent.

This society needs to move forward together. There will be knuckle staggers on both sides. Recognise them for what they are, call them out, by all means engage with them to try to shift them along the evolutionary spectrum but we can only stall so much and for so long

[smelmoth]

there are huge swathes of nationalist kids in both Derry and Belfast not in the gaa fold, surely the aim should be get all our own first before licking the holes of any loyalist knackers to play GAA

Fair play to you for setting out how you feel. I get the impression there are others who agree with you but are too embarrassed to admit to it.

By setting out that Catholic kids outside the GAA fold our "own" but Protestants living alongside them are not you are already setting out the organisation as a catholic one. An unhelpful starting position.

To dress up some minor changes you are being asked to make as "licking the holes of some loyalist knackers" probably means you are not going to be at the vanguard of moving this place forward

The GAA can't and won't be forced to make the necessary changes. But if it takes that intransigent stance then it will come at a price

We know that the UK civil service is looking at housing, schooling and public expenditure in NI to try to reduce the long term deficit. In that regard there is a realisation that funding segregated housing, segregated schooling and capital projects that maintain cultural separation is a bad use of public funds (as more funds have to be found to manage the ongoing impacts of the lack of social cohesion).

If you don't reach out to unionism you won't be able to reach out for the cheque. The choice is yours

I never mentioned religions at all, you added that in.

my point is simple we have thousands upon thousands of nationalist kids in urban areas who arent yet active in GAA, Derry city being the biggest misnomer of all . They would be easier brought into the GAA than someone who is ideologically and multi generationally opposed to everything of an irish culture.
Its not sectarian, its merely common sense why should the GAA attempt the impossible for the sake of what maybe 10 kids joining when 1000s are available if Croke Park and HQ together with the respective county boards got their fingers out of their holes and invested in reclaiming the decay in urban nationalist areas

Yes it was me who called them catholic. You called them nationalist. Why do call the nationalists? They are children. They've never voted. They don't play Irish games. What non religious criteria were you using?

[smelmoth]

Wonder how many clubs are actively supporting the Irish language or traditional music, song etc?
Time for the basic aim to be the promotion of the Gaelic games of football, hurling....etc.
Leave politics to the politicians,  Traditional music to Comhaltas, The language to Conradh and so on.

Agreed. No need for the GAA to act like it's the sporting equivilent of the Wolfe Tones (not a bad auld group, but not exactly agents of cross-community understanding). The one positive of the new age corporate GAA bean counters is that they will likely shy away from the jingoism over the next few decades and try to appeal to other ethnic groups in the country. Money tends to be a powerful motivation.

The club I'm from promotes all of the above. I would imagine they will continue to do so. If this puts people from a different background from joining our club then I'm sorry about that but this is what we are. Take it or leave it.

Fine. Don't make any effort to make Protestants feel welcome. Don't try to grow your club by recruiting from an under-represented demographic. Stick to your little clique and shun all outsiders, newcomers, and everyone who doesn't look like you. But don't come crying to me when unionists keep attacking Irish culture because they think it's alien or threatening to them.

So you think our club should stop the Irish language evening classes?  We should stop teaching kids how to play Irish music so they can enter Scor?

Where did I say anything remotely close to that? If I had my way there'd be a lot more protestants attending said Irish language evening classes, learning Irish music, and participating in Scór. But it's not going to happen in your club if it's named after an INLA man.

I'm sorry but I don't see why the club should have to change its name to suit a handful of Protestants? Kevin Lynch means more to the people of Dungiven and the rest of the North than what it would mean to have a few Protestants join the club. Leave the clubs as they are. If anyone new wants to join, then come ahead. If not, then stay away. You take away names, take away the anthem, take away the flag. Jesus men, have some pride in yourselves.

Lynch was a renegade, a bully and a thug. He means very little to the majority of the people in NI

Did you know him?

My parents did. Aul fella wouldn't have a great word for him.

[tonto1888]

And don't mention the anthem, they only hear it in Ballyhaunis once a year when there's a championship match on.

The anthem isn't an issue in the free state. Only in the north would I be in favour of dropping it at matches.

Be careful what you wish for!
Inclusion is of paramount importance , and we should continue to work at welcoming everybody particularly minorities. However that needn't be at the expense of our Irish ethos.
We punch way above our weight as a sport , dwarfing major worldwide sports on this island. A major motivation for most of our best volunteers and a subconscious motivation for all involved is the patriotic attachment of the organisation. If we drop all or many of the trappings of Irishness it may not attract minorities to any great extent, but it could undermine our volunteer base.

Given its supremacy, the GAA punches at exactly its weight in the country. There are plenty of examples of local sports being massively popular in one or two countries, it really doesn't matter a jot how popular another is internationally if that native sport is already established.

The GAA is no underdog and that is no excuse not reflect the Ireland of 2018 rather than the one that exsisted when a bunch of revolutionaries had a knees up in Hayes' in the 1880s. The identity of Ireland has changed and the GAA needs to as well.

If you think there's much attachment to the patriotic element of the GAA outside the six counties you're sorely mistaken. It's just sport and local communities in the other 26. The club and county flags mean far more to me in the GAA than the tri colour. First it was being afraid of foreign sports, then it was of cops playing the sport, now the boogeyman is some imagined loss of white Catholic culture if we do the things that will allow us to reach out to other groups in the future. This is all very remeincent of the retoric used by Trump's supporters when talking about the changing face of America and the decline of WASPs' influence - not a favourable comparison for anyone.

And if someone is only in GAA so tennously that making it less politically charged and open in the north turns them away, good night and good riddance to those people. They don't reflect my ethos and attachment to the GAA in any way, shape or form.

you wanna explain this a bit more? Are you saying us in the north are attracted to the GAA because of some patriotic element? At 7 years of old I was very political and patriotic and that's why I decided to play GAA. Nothing to do with my friends at all

[smelmoth]

Wonder how many clubs are actively supporting the Irish language or traditional music, song etc?
Time for the basic aim to be the promotion of the Gaelic games of football, hurling....etc.
Leave politics to the politicians,  Traditional music to Comhaltas, The language to Conradh and so on.

Agreed. No need for the GAA to act like it's the sporting equivilent of the Wolfe Tones (not a bad auld group, but not exactly agents of cross-community understanding). The one positive of the new age corporate GAA bean counters is that they will likely shy away from the jingoism over the next few decades and try to appeal to other ethnic groups in the country. Money tends to be a powerful motivation.

The club I'm from promotes all of the above. I would imagine they will continue to do so. If this puts people from a different background from joining our club then I'm sorry about that but this is what we are. Take it or leave it.

Fine. Don't make any effort to make Protestants feel welcome. Don't try to grow your club by recruiting from an under-represented demographic. Stick to your little clique and shun all outsiders, newcomers, and everyone who doesn't look like you. But don't come crying to me when unionists keep attacking Irish culture because they think it's alien or threatening to them.

So you think our club should stop the Irish language evening classes?  We should stop teaching kids how to play Irish music so they can enter Scor?

Where did I say anything remotely close to that? If I had my way there'd be a lot more protestants attending said Irish language evening classes, learning Irish music, and participating in Scór. But it's not going to happen in your club if it's named after an INLA man.

I'm sorry but I don't see why the club should have to change its name to suit a handful of Protestants? Kevin Lynch means more to the people of Dungiven and the rest of the North than what it would mean to have a few Protestants join the club. Leave the clubs as they are. If anyone new wants to join, then come ahead. If not, then stay away. You take away names, take away the anthem, take away the flag. Jesus men, have some pride in yourselves.

Lynch was a renegade, a bully and a thug. He means very little to the majority of the people in NI

I think Smel, you'll find that that is not the case. You will find he means a great deal to the majority of people and those others who put down their lives.

Really?

The relevance to young people who think The Troubles was a nite club in Belfast?
The relevance to young people who will vote SF but wouldn't touch them if there was a return to violence
Relevant to people who backed the provisionals but deeply mistrust the fringe republicans?

[OgraAnDun]

Wonder how many clubs are actively supporting the Irish language or traditional music, song etc?
Time for the basic aim to be the promotion of the Gaelic games of football, hurling....etc.
Leave politics to the politicians,  Traditional music to Comhaltas, The language to Conradh and so on.

Agreed. No need for the GAA to act like it's the sporting equivilent of the Wolfe Tones (not a bad auld group, but not exactly agents of cross-community understanding). The one positive of the new age corporate GAA bean counters is that they will likely shy away from the jingoism over the next few decades and try to appeal to other ethnic groups in the country. Money tends to be a powerful motivation.

The club I'm from promotes all of the above. I would imagine they will continue to do so. If this puts people from a different background from joining our club then I'm sorry about that but this is what we are. Take it or leave it.

Fine. Don't make any effort to make Protestants feel welcome. Don't try to grow your club by recruiting from an under-represented demographic. Stick to your little clique and shun all outsiders, newcomers, and everyone who doesn't look like you. But don't come crying to me when unionists keep attacking Irish culture because they think it's alien or threatening to them.

So you think our club should stop the Irish language evening classes?  We should stop teaching kids how to play Irish music so they can enter Scor?

Where did I say anything remotely close to that? If I had my way there'd be a lot more protestants attending said Irish language evening classes, learning Irish music, and participating in Scór. But it's not going to happen in your club if it's named after an INLA man.

I'm sorry but I don't see why the club should have to change its name to suit a handful of Protestants? Kevin Lynch means more to the people of Dungiven and the rest of the North than what it would mean to have a few Protestants join the club. Leave the clubs as they are. If anyone new wants to join, then come ahead. If not, then stay away. You take away names, take away the anthem, take away the flag. Jesus men, have some pride in yourselves.

Lynch was a renegade, a bully and a thug. He means very little to the majority of the people in NI

I think Smel, you'll find that that is not the case. You will find he means a great deal to the majority of people and those others who put down their lives.

Really?

The relevance to young people who think The Troubles was a nite club in Belfast?
The relevance to young people who will vote SF but wouldn't touch them if there was a return to violence
Relevant to people who backed the provisionals but deeply mistrust the fringe republicans?

How many young people do you actually know? Everyone knows what The Troubles were. The general consensus among young nationalists is that the Troubles were an unfortunate but inevitable reaction to the political and social situation at the time.

[smelmoth]

A figure of speech.
One that I thought you might have been familiar with.

Increasingly I find that young people are disinterested in the details of the troubles

[Franko]

Wonder how many clubs are actively supporting the Irish language or traditional music, song etc?
Time for the basic aim to be the promotion of the Gaelic games of football, hurling....etc.
Leave politics to the politicians,  Traditional music to Comhaltas, The language to Conradh and so on.

Agreed. No need for the GAA to act like it's the sporting equivilent of the Wolfe Tones (not a bad auld group, but not exactly agents of cross-community understanding). The one positive of the new age corporate GAA bean counters is that they will likely shy away from the jingoism over the next few decades and try to appeal to other ethnic groups in the country. Money tends to be a powerful motivation.

The club I'm from promotes all of the above. I would imagine they will continue to do so. If this puts people from a different background from joining our club then I'm sorry about that but this is what we are. Take it or leave it.

Fine. Don't make any effort to make Protestants feel welcome. Don't try to grow your club by recruiting from an under-represented demographic. Stick to your little clique and shun all outsiders, newcomers, and everyone who doesn't look like you. But don't come crying to me when unionists keep attacking Irish culture because they think it's alien or threatening to them.

So you think our club should stop the Irish language evening classes?  We should stop teaching kids how to play Irish music so they can enter Scor?

Where did I say anything remotely close to that? If I had my way there'd be a lot more protestants attending said Irish language evening classes, learning Irish music, and participating in Scór. But it's not going to happen in your club if it's named after an INLA man.

I'm sorry but I don't see why the club should have to change its name to suit a handful of Protestants? Kevin Lynch means more to the people of Dungiven and the rest of the North than what it would mean to have a few Protestants join the club. Leave the clubs as they are. If anyone new wants to join, then come ahead. If not, then stay away. You take away names, take away the anthem, take away the flag. Jesus men, have some pride in yourselves.

Lynch was a renegade, a bully and a thug. He means very little to the majority of the people in NI

Did you know him?

My parents did. Aul fella wouldn't have a great word for him.

Ah right. Your daddy told you.