So what do ye think of the black card rule now?

[muppet]

I've been meaning to respond to Hound and AZ but no spare time to put together what I want to say. It's not about the black card rules per se, but about the mentality the new initiatives represent that's manifesting itself in penalising honest physicality, indulging attackers in stepping And promoting an attitude that more scoring means all this is working for the best. Maybe say something more sensible when I have time.

This is exactly it.

The black card hasn't changed the rules regarding tackling, but as a result of the black card players are afraid to tackle.

Many times when the whistle went yesterday players and fans all looked at the ref to see if he thought a black card offence had occurred. Often players on the ground who had just been fouled called for the black card. Pointing to mores scores as proof that the card is working is missing a bigger problem.

[AZOffaly]

I've been meaning to respond to Hound and AZ but no spare time to put together what I want to say. It's not about the black card rules per se, but about the mentality the new initiatives represent that's manifesting itself in penalising honest physicality, indulging attackers in stepping And promoting an attitude that more scoring means all this is working for the best. Maybe say something more sensible when I have time.

This is exactly it.

The black card hasn't changed the rules regarding tackling, but as a result of the black card players are afraid to tackle.

Many times when the whistle went yesterday players and fans all looked at the ref to see if he thought a black card offence had occurred. Often players on the ground who had just been fouled called for the black card. Pointing to mores scores as proof that the card is working is missing a bigger problem.

OK I understand that, and maybe there's a period where players will need to find their feet. I'm sure it will settle down. In fairness, as long as a ref is sure something was deliberate, then the black card offences are about as clear as can be.

[blewuporstuffed]

From my experience of the black card in yesterdays club game, it was a complete disaster.
This has always been my biggest worry about the new rules, how they work when having to be implemented by referees at ALL levels.
The new rules do NOTHING to improve the game as a spectacle.
They encourage a player to take the ball into contact and then go down with the slightest of contact.
I know i will get loads of replies saying ' oh but thats nothing to do with the rules' but in my opinion it is.
There is alot more to gain now from 'going down easily' or 'diving' or whatever way you want to put it.
There is a huge grey area over what is a black card foul and what is not, its ok arguing the wording of the rulebook on here, but when it comes to referees making that distinction in real time during games confusion & inconsistency reign.
we had a player yesterday get a black card in the first 5 minutes or so for a foul that im pretty sure last season wouldnt have recieved a yellow even.
the ref went on to give out 5 more black cards, all of which where very debatable. (not to mention another clear bodycheck off the ball, for which he awarded a free but NO black card)

I can see there being huge controversy over this throughout the year, especially in club football.

be careful what you wish for lads.

[AZOffaly]

From my experience of the black card in yesterdays club game, it was a complete disaster.
This has always been my biggest worry about the new rules, how they work when having to be implemented by referees at ALL levels.
The new rules do NOTHING to improve the game as a spectacle.
They encourage a player to take the ball into contact and then go down with the slightest of contact.
I know i will get loads of replies saying ' oh but thats nothing to do with the rules' but in my opinion it is.
There is alot more to gain now from 'going down easily' or 'diving' or whatever way you want to put it.
There is a huge grey area over what is a black card foul and what is not, its ok arguing the wording of the rulebook on here, but when it comes to referees making that distinction in real time during games confusion & inconsistency reign.
we had a player yesterday get a black card in the first 5 minutes or so for a foul that im pretty sure last season wouldnt have recieved a yellow even.
the ref went on to give out 5 more black cards, all of which where very debatable. (not to mention another clear bodycheck off the ball, for which he awarded a free but NO black card)

I can see there being huge controversy over this throughout the year, especially in club football.

be careful what you wish for lads.

That's what I'd be worried about alright.

But in terms of grey areas, I can't agree. It's as black and white as it can be. All the ref has to decide is was it deliberate or not. Of course some refs will make the wrong call there, and that's a flaw but ultimately all refereeing is flawed.

[blewuporstuffed]

From my experience of the black card in yesterdays club game, it was a complete disaster.
This has always been my biggest worry about the new rules, how they work when having to be implemented by referees at ALL levels.
The new rules do NOTHING to improve the game as a spectacle.
They encourage a player to take the ball into contact and then go down with the slightest of contact.
I know i will get loads of replies saying ' oh but thats nothing to do with the rules' but in my opinion it is.
There is alot more to gain now from 'going down easily' or 'diving' or whatever way you want to put it.
There is a huge grey area over what is a black card foul and what is not, its ok arguing the wording of the rulebook on here, but when it comes to referees making that distinction in real time during games confusion & inconsistency reign.
we had a player yesterday get a black card in the first 5 minutes or so for a foul that im pretty sure last season wouldnt have recieved a yellow even.
the ref went on to give out 5 more black cards, all of which where very debatable. (not to mention another clear bodycheck off the ball, for which he awarded a free but NO black card)

I can see there being huge controversy over this throughout the year, especially in club football.

be careful what you wish for lads.

That's what I'd be worried about alright.

But in terms of grey areas, I can't agree. It's as black and white as it can be. All the ref has to decide is was it deliberate or not. Of course some refs will make the wrong call there, and that's a flaw but ultimately all refereeing is flawed.

i agree it may be black & white in the rule book, but when it comes to making the decisions in real time, its not that simple.
Just as there are varying levels of players from junior club right up to senior intercounty, there are varying degrees of referees as well and in my opinion the new rules have added a n extra level of difficulty for them to deal with.

[AZOffaly]

That's probably a fair statement. However we have to have refs, and this rule really just asks them to make one decision. Deliberate or not. If they can't get most of them right, then we have bigger problems.

Anyway, tell yer lads to stop cynically fouling everyone.

[blewuporstuffed]

That's probably a fair statement. However we have to have refs, and this rule really just asks them to make one decision. Deliberate or not. If they can't get most of them right, then we have bigger problems.

Anyway, tell yer lads to stop cynically fouling everyone.

we had 2 black cards, they had 4! so it isnt just a case of being on the wrong side of a few decisions and taking the hump with the rules! I really feel it detracted form the game (which was a good contest) rather than adding to it.

[Hound]

If there are six black cards in a single match, either the ref is useless or the players are idiots.

[blewuporstuffed]

If there are six black cards in a single match, either the ref is useless or the players are idiots.

or the rules are flawed......

[Zulu]

Can't be the rules. That hasn't happened in any IC game so it isn't the rules. There hasn't been a single black card in our (the county) club games so far.

[magpie seanie]

Can't be the rules. That hasn't in any IC game so it isn't the rules. There hasn't been a single black card in our (the county) club games so far.

We had two yellow cards in our club game yesterday that everyone knew were black cards, including the ref. They only had 15 players and we had 17 but two went off injured.

We also had a penalty given against us and he opposition were pissing themselves laughing. Indeed I think the guy who took it was still laughing as he hit a weak penalty along the ground that was gratefully saved by our keeper!

[sligoman2]

Here's another interesting article on this subject from Eamon Sweeney in today's indo.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/official-line-must-hold-firm-30180603.html

[Dont Matter]

I took an underage training session before and it was time to pick teams to play a match, I had red and black bibs. There were two lads of African decent playing. I handed out the bibs randomly and said 'red team you spread about and you're shooting that way', I was goin to say the same to the black team but the two lads were on it so I stopped in my tracks, would it be racist to call them the black team I asked myself.
I looked around and told the kids that the teams weren't fair so I swapped a few of them around, including the two black lads over to the red team. This solved an awful conundrum I had gotten myself into but what if a referee finds himself in a similar sticky situation? What if a coloured lad drags down a fella in a match and deserves a black card? Will the ref feel a bit racist doing this and give him a red instead?

[From the Bunker]

Here's another interesting article on this subject from Eamon Sweeney in today's indo.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/official-line-must-hold-firm-30180603.html

The real test of the black card is whether referees will have the guts to brandish it in the championship where much more is at stake. Will we see it in one of those Ulster slugfests where managers and pundits already appeal for referees to recognise the distinctive culture of football in the province and go easy with the cards? Will we see it if a big name commits a cynical foul in the first five minutes of a big match? Will we see it with five minutes left in a packed and noisy Croke Park and the result still in doubt? Will we see it from a referee who's been slagged off in his previous game by a big-name manager who wants to retain cynicism as an option for the rest of the campaign?

The trouble is the consistency, there is none! Interpretation is all over the place. And allot of referees are brandishing yellows as a kop out! Good players are going to be targeted into doing a tackle that will be made look like a cynical foul. Play acting! It's all ahead of us. Loads of great scores are great for the game. But there are players who take up to 8 steps into a tackle and rarely get pulled for it unless there are three or more players around him and he gets bottled up. We all know the players.

[Milltown Row2]

From my experience of the black card in yesterdays club game, it was a complete disaster.
This has always been my biggest worry about the new rules, how they work when having to be implemented by referees at ALL levels.
The new rules do NOTHING to improve the game as a spectacle.
They encourage a player to take the ball into contact and then go down with the slightest of contact.
I know i will get loads of replies saying ' oh but thats nothing to do with the rules' but in my opinion it is.
There is alot more to gain now from 'going down easily' or 'diving' or whatever way you want to put it.
There is a huge grey area over what is a black card foul and what is not, its ok arguing the wording of the rulebook on here, but when it comes to referees making that distinction in real time during games confusion & inconsistency reign.
we had a player yesterday get a black card in the first 5 minutes or so for a foul that im pretty sure last season wouldnt have recieved a yellow even.
the ref went on to give out 5 more black cards, all of which where very debatable. (not to mention another clear bodycheck off the ball, for which he awarded a free but NO black card)

I can see there being huge controversy over this throughout the year, especially in club football.

be careful what you wish for lads.

That's what I'd be worried about alright.

But in terms of grey areas, I can't agree. It's as black and white as it can be. All the ref has to decide is was it deliberate or not. Of course some refs will make the wrong call there, and that's a flaw but ultimately all refereeing is flawed.

Refereed my second football game on Sunday, no black cards shown at all, in fairness both teams are not noted for cynical type football so all tackles (in my opinion, which on the day is the one that matters lol) seemed fair, and there was no calls for black cards by either the players or management teams. Can't see that lasting as the season hot's up and championship games kick in.

As a referee I'm not a fan of the black card rule only for the slobbering at the referee, deliberate pull downs/trips should be a yellow and followed by another should same player do it again. A home referee yesterday watching the game viewed 3 black cards in his opinion so it shows you the difference of how the rules are going to be applied