DUP: Champions of a shared future

[Applesisapples]

So Donal McKeown has lost the plot? The DUP is not sectarian, that's why they want to abolish Catholic Education, without which the croppies in the North would still be trampledCatholic/Nationalist under foot. Without which we would not have had Bernadette McAliskey, Seamus Heaney or John Hume. Nothing to do with the fact that once you get Catholic/Nationalists into controlled schools then you can remove the need for Irish Language, promote "Britishness" and assimilate the natives or at least some of them into the unionist majority like uncle Toms. Meanwhile across the north the so called shared space that is our town and city centres are festooned with red white and blue buntings, up to 4 flags to a lamp post covering everything from Scotland and Wales to the UVF and the Loyal orders. I am failing to see this equality that SF talk about. And that is before you even start to dissect the furore over the fleg protests and contentious parades. Shared future me ar**.

[Maguire01]

So Donal McKeown has lost the plot? The DUP is not sectarian, that's why they want to abolish Catholic Education, without which the croppies in the North would still be trampledCatholic/Nationalist under foot. Without which we would not have had Bernadette McAliskey, Seamus Heaney or John Hume. Nothing to do with the fact that once you get Catholic/Nationalists into controlled schools then you can remove the need for Irish Language, promote "Britishness" and assimilate the natives or at least some of them into the unionist majority like uncle Toms. Meanwhile across the north the so called shared space that is our town and city centres are festooned with red white and blue buntings, up to 4 flags to a lamp post covering everything from Scotland and Wales to the UVF and the Loyal orders. I am failing to see this equality that SF talk about. And that is before you even start to dissect the furore over the fleg protests and contentious parades. Shared future me ar**.

Putting aside the need for a separate Catholic education sector on the past, there's no need for segregated education to continue. And is there really any doubt that the bishop is protecting his/the Church's interests here?

Also, if there was proper integrated education, then there'd be Irish taught in those schools and GAA (alongside Rugby and other sports) at PE. There's not a mission in this day and age that these 'subjects' would be 'removed'.

[Applesisapples]

So Donal McKeown has lost the plot? The DUP is not sectarian, that's why they want to abolish Catholic Education, without which the croppies in the North would still be trampledCatholic/Nationalist under foot. Without which we would not have had Bernadette McAliskey, Seamus Heaney or John Hume. Nothing to do with the fact that once you get Catholic/Nationalists into controlled schools then you can remove the need for Irish Language, promote "Britishness" and assimilate the natives or at least some of them into the unionist majority like uncle Toms. Meanwhile across the north the so called shared space that is our town and city centres are festooned with red white and blue buntings, up to 4 flags to a lamp post covering everything from Scotland and Wales to the UVF and the Loyal orders. I am failing to see this equality that SF talk about. And that is before you even start to dissect the furore over the fleg protests and contentious parades. Shared future me ar**.

Putting aside the need for a separate Catholic education sector on the past, there's no need for segregated education to continue. And is there really any doubt that the bishop is protecting his/the Church's interests here?

Also, if there was proper integrated education, then there'd be Irish taught in those schools and GAA (alongside Rugby and other sports) at PE. There's not a mission in this day and age that these 'subjects' would be 'removed'.

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

[Keyser soze]

So Donal McKeown has lost the plot? The DUP is not sectarian, that's why they want to abolish Catholic Education, without which the croppies in the North would still be trampledCatholic/Nationalist under foot. Without which we would not have had Bernadette McAliskey, Seamus Heaney or John Hume. Nothing to do with the fact that once you get Catholic/Nationalists into controlled schools then you can remove the need for Irish Language, promote "Britishness" and assimilate the natives or at least some of them into the unionist majority like uncle Toms. Meanwhile across the north the so called shared space that is our town and city centres are festooned with red white and blue buntings, up to 4 flags to a lamp post covering everything from Scotland and Wales to the UVF and the Loyal orders. I am failing to see this equality that SF talk about. And that is before you even start to dissect the furore over the fleg protests and contentious parades. Shared future me ar**.

Putting aside the need for a separate Catholic education sector on the past, there's no need for segregated education to continue. And is there really any doubt that the bishop is protecting his/the Church's interests here?

Also, if there was proper integrated education, then there'd be Irish taught in those schools and GAA (alongside Rugby and other sports) at PE. There's not a mission in this day and age that these 'subjects' would be 'removed'.

Not in any of the integrated schools that I know [2]. Nor will there ever be if some of the treatment meted out to ex-staff who tried to introduce gaa games is anything to go by.

[No Soloing]

On the whole I would like schools to be integrated. I think its the way forward for society in NI. If children mix and are friends with themuns from an early age then maybe the concept of themuns will disappear. One problem I have though is that, on the whole, Catholic schools seem to do better, so currently my kids generally have a better chance of having a good education - I wouldnt want to see integration meaning that there is a dragging down of standards. 

Bishop McKeown has his own agenda. There is far too much focus on the Catholic ethos in primary school - and I feel it is there mainly for indoctrination. I am not against religion in schools, but I think it could be reduced quite a bit, and maybe learning about other religions would be interesting for kids. Maybe move things like prep for Holy Communion to after school, or in Church, or at home.

Obviously the DUP, SF etc have their own agendas also. I kind of feel the debate on education is being discussed among the wrong people. We have politicians who are involved in tribal, sectarian squabbles on nearly a daily basis arguing over whether or not we have a sectarian education system! Maybe a bigger say for parents, teachers or principals would be an idea

[Applesisapples]

In fairness to Donal McKeown he has been to the forefront on the 11 plus. Of course the church will have an agenda on catholic schools, it would be a shock if they hadn't. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong. As for the DUP there are undoubtedly playing politics with this. If they are srious aboy equality and a shared future lets see the removal of all flags, banners and contentious parades from the equation first as a sign of intent.

[EC Unique]

On the whole I would like schools to be integrated. I think its the way forward for society in NI. If children mix and are friends with themuns from an early age then maybe the concept of themuns will disappear. One problem I have though is that, on the whole, Catholic schools seem to do better, so currently my kids generally have a better chance of having a good education - I wouldnt want to see integration meaning that there is a dragging down of standards. 

Bishop McKeown has his own agenda. There is far too much focus on the Catholic ethos in primary school - and I feel it is there mainly for indoctrination. I am not against religion in schools, but I think it could be reduced quite a bit, and maybe learning about other religions would be interesting for kids. Maybe move things like prep for Holy Communion to after school, or in Church, or at home.

Obviously the DUP, SF etc have their own agendas also. I kind of feel the debate on education is being discussed among the wrong people. We have politicians who are involved in tribal, sectarian squabbles on nearly a daily basis arguing over whether or not we have a sectarian education system! Maybe a bigger say for parents, teachers or principals would be an idea

I would imagne most teachers would not be in favour of integrated schooling as it would reduce the amount of jobs and princilpe posts.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

This always strikes me as a strange one: given that the word ethos refers to the fundamentals/principles of something sure at it's most basic the ethos of all christian faiths is the same.

So would you be happy send your kids to a "Christian ethos" school or must it be a "Catholic ethos" school?

/Jim

[Applesisapples]

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

This always strikes me as a strange one: given that the word ethos refers to the fundamentals/principles of something sure at it's most basic the ethos of all christian faiths is the same.

So would you be happy send your kids to a "Christian ethos" school or must it be a "Catholic ethos" school?

/Jim

No a Christian ethos is not quite the same, there are differences in faith and belief.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

This always strikes me as a strange one: given that the word ethos refers to the fundamentals/principles of something sure at it's most basic the ethos of all christian faiths is the same.

So would you be happy send your kids to a "Christian ethos" school or must it be a "Catholic ethos" school?

/Jim

No a Christian ethos is not quite the same, there are differences in faith and belief.

I know there are differences: Papal infallibility, transubtantiation, Virgin Mary etc.. but surely at an ethos^* level they are the same?

Could you give me an example of something that would come through in a school's ethos that is unique to Catholicism (Other than specific doctrine classes) that you feel your kids would lack by being in a multi-denominational school?

/Jim.

*the fundamental character or spirit of a culture

[Count 10]

Integrated education has been around in N.I. from the early 1980's and the main opponents were and still remain the main Christian churches. In theory it sounds like a great idea but in practice not really....young people still get their opinions on most things from their parents. As long as both communities still mistrust each other then it will not take over from the current schooling system (which has been successful IMHO).
Themuns still think we have horns in our heads, and we think their eyes are closer together!  

[Applesisapples]

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

This always strikes me as a strange one: given that the word ethos refers to the fundamentals/principles of something sure at it's most basic the ethos of all christian faiths is the same.

So would you be happy send your kids to a "Christian ethos" school or must it be a "Catholic ethos" school?

/Jim

No a Christian ethos is not quite the same, there are differences in faith and belief.

I know there are differences: Papal infallibility, transubtantiation, Virgin Mary etc.. but surely at an ethos^* level they are the same?

Could you give me an example of something that would come through in a school's ethos that is unique to Catholicism (Other than specific doctrine classes) that you feel your kids would lack by being in a multi-denominational school?

/Jim.

*the fundamental character or spirit of a culture

There are differences of interpretation and emphasis which would impact on the teaching of religion, history, science (creationism for example).

[Applesisapples]

Integrated education has been around in N.I. from the early 1980's and the main opponents were and still remain the main Christian churches. In theory it sounds like a great idea but in practice not really....young people still get their opinions on most things from their parents. As long as both communities still mistrust each other then it will not take over from the current schooling system (which has been successful IMHO).
Themuns still think we have horns in our heads, and we think their eyes are closer together!

They are aren't they?

[Maguire01]

So Donal McKeown has lost the plot? The DUP is not sectarian, that's why they want to abolish Catholic Education, without which the croppies in the North would still be trampledCatholic/Nationalist under foot. Without which we would not have had Bernadette McAliskey, Seamus Heaney or John Hume. Nothing to do with the fact that once you get Catholic/Nationalists into controlled schools then you can remove the need for Irish Language, promote "Britishness" and assimilate the natives or at least some of them into the unionist majority like uncle Toms. Meanwhile across the north the so called shared space that is our town and city centres are festooned with red white and blue buntings, up to 4 flags to a lamp post covering everything from Scotland and Wales to the UVF and the Loyal orders. I am failing to see this equality that SF talk about. And that is before you even start to dissect the furore over the fleg protests and contentious parades. Shared future me ar**.

Putting aside the need for a separate Catholic education sector on the past, there's no need for segregated education to continue. And is there really any doubt that the bishop is protecting his/the Church's interests here?

Also, if there was proper integrated education, then there'd be Irish taught in those schools and GAA (alongside Rugby and other sports) at PE. There's not a mission in this day and age that these 'subjects' would be 'removed'.

But parents like me want our children taught in schools with a catholic ethos.

What does that actually mean though? What does a Catholic ethos look like in second level education?

[Maguire01]

Integrated education has been around in N.I. from the early 1980's and the main opponents were and still remain the main Christian churches. In theory it sounds like a great idea but in practice not really....young people still get their opinions on most things from their parents. As long as both communities still mistrust each other then it will not take over from the current schooling system (which has been successful IMHO).
Themuns still think we have horns in our heads, and we think their eyes are closer together!

The bit in bold - no doubt a significant factor in shaping opinions. But if you're sat next to 'themmuns' every day, you might realise that your parents didn't have a clue what they were talking about. And then eventually, those pupils will be parents themselves...

And as for the current system being "successful", maybe in terms of the basic role of educating children (although segregated sectors has no doubt come at a higher cost), but in terms of the role of the school system in wider society, i'm not so sure...