United ireland, whats has it to offer me.

[delboy]

Forget about the disadvantages that i listed at least for the meantime, im more interested in hearing the advantages such as ziggys pointing out about the greater proportional representation in the Dail relative to westminster which on the face of it would certainly seem to be an advantage, or zaps idea that a new country could have worked for with changed ideals etc.

Personally i think in the context of ireland a new country with a system of governance that dropped all ties with religion which became completely ecumenical with no interference or influence from religion (catholic or protestant) really would be worth striving for. It would have to be root and branch though so for example no more religious schools of any denomination funded by the state (such things could be completely privately funded by churches/parents if wanted). Article 44 of the Constitution could go 'The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion'.
By all rights people should be free to worship how they want, but the removal of religion from schools etc would bring about proper intergration something that we really do need if we are every to really get past this.

If course i realise some people would be aghast at the prospect of this, not least the fundamentalist protestant bin-lids, but its something i'd personally like to see.
 

[pintsofguinness]

why dont you answer hardy's question

[delboy]

why dont you answer hardy's question

I was actually trying to stay out of the thread awhile to see if any positives came out of it, but i don't see why that shouldn't be answered as it more about clarification than anything else.

Well large parts of what was the 'settlers' culture music, dance, literature etc has already been integrated into irish culture, that leaves the main defining cultural differnence of unionism 'marching' and associated things such as paying respect to those that sacraficed their lives during the two world wars.

I'll preface this by saying that im not a huge fan of parading but i think it would have to be accomadated in a new Ireland, im not talking about marching through catholic residencies were they aren't wanted. But it should be more than just being allowed to march in exclusively protestant areas, town centres etc are shared spaces and as such parades should be allowed into them on occasion (no reason why this couldn't also be the hibernians etc).

It would be great to see the new irish government for instance recognise those that laid down their lives during the two world wars, Alex maskey i think made a token gesture when he was lord mayor, things like that do wonders for building bridges and confidence.

But really though i guess i'd like to see some checks and balances be put in place such as the fair employment commison which we have here, not saying protestants would be prejudicied against in a new Ireland but again something like this would build confidence.   

And of course the removal of all religion from the state as laid out in my previous post.

[Orior]

We would also become a significant minority, would our rights and ability to express our culture be properly protected in a UI??

Not being disingenuous, but what do you have in mind? Define the cultural expressions you're worried about being allowed to express and, where appropriate, the mode of expression and I'll attempt an answer.

The OO would obviously want to continue marching through mainly nationalist areas as is their God-given right (apparently). I feel this "right" would not be upheld in a new fluffy all-inclusive state.

TBH, I'd let them march round my backgarden if it meant a UI.

Me too. (Where is your back garden and I'll send them around now)

Not only that, but i'd even let them marry my sisters.

[Orior]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

[pintsofguinness]

why dont you answer hardy's question

I was actually trying to stay out of the thread awhile to see if any positives came out of it, but i don't see why that shouldn't be answered as it more about clarification than anything else.

Well large parts of what was the 'settlers' culture music, dance, literature etc has already been integrated into irish culture, that leaves the main defining cultural differnence of unionism 'marching' and associated things such as paying respect to those that sacraficed their lives during the two world wars.

I'll preface this by saying that im not a huge fan of parading but i think it would have to be accomadated in a new Ireland, im not talking about marching through catholic residencies were they aren't wanted. But it should be more than just being allowed to march in exclusively protestant areas, town centres etc are shared spaces and as such parades should be allowed into them on occasion (no reason why this couldn't also be the hibernians etc).

It would be great to see the new irish government for instance recognise those that laid down their lives during the two world wars, Alex maskey i think made a token gesture when he was lord mayor, things like that do wonders for building bridges and confidence.

But really though i guess i'd like to see some checks and balances be put in place such as the fair employment commison which we have here, not saying protestants would be prejudicied against in a new Ireland but again something like this would build confidence.   

And of course the removal of all religion from the state as laid out in my previous post.

So you want the orange order to march through town centres - I thought they did that already but fine.
Fair employment commission - fine
Removal of all religion from the state - fine with me

Is that it?

[delboy]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

[delboy]

why dont you answer hardy's question

I was actually trying to stay out of the thread awhile to see if any positives came out of it, but i don't see why that shouldn't be answered as it more about clarification than anything else.

Well large parts of what was the 'settlers' culture music, dance, literature etc has already been integrated into irish culture, that leaves the main defining cultural differnence of unionism 'marching' and associated things such as paying respect to those that sacraficed their lives during the two world wars.

I'll preface this by saying that im not a huge fan of parading but i think it would have to be accomadated in a new Ireland, im not talking about marching through catholic residencies were they aren't wanted. But it should be more than just being allowed to march in exclusively protestant areas, town centres etc are shared spaces and as such parades should be allowed into them on occasion (no reason why this couldn't also be the hibernians etc).

It would be great to see the new irish government for instance recognise those that laid down their lives during the two world wars, Alex maskey i think made a token gesture when he was lord mayor, things like that do wonders for building bridges and confidence.

But really though i guess i'd like to see some checks and balances be put in place such as the fair employment commison which we have here, not saying protestants would be prejudicied against in a new Ireland but again something like this would build confidence.   

And of course the removal of all religion from the state as laid out in my previous post.

So you want the orange order to march through town centres - I thought they did that already but fine.
Fair employment commission - fine
Removal of all religion from the state - fine with me

Is that it?

I don't want them to march through town centres but i do want them to be allowed to, if you see what i mean.

Well i did mention some sort of state recognition of those that died in the two world wars but yeah from a cultural perspective that would be me pretty much happy enough.

[Orior]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

1) Then you need to explain how you came to the conclusion that Ireland is run by Priests?

2) By the way, religion is important to a lot of people, and if some clerics wish to argue their corner in government circles then I dont see why they should be denied such a platform.

3) Finally, good luck with this search, and I do hope you have your eyes opened. The south is not such a bad place. It will be difficult to form a balanced general view. Sometimes those people who offer opinions have the biggest axe to grind.

[Myles Na G.]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

1) Then you need to explain how you came to the conclusion that Ireland is run by Priests?

2) By the way, religion is important to a lot of people, and if some clerics wish to argue their corner in government circles then I dont see why they should be denied such a platform.

3) Finally, good luck with this search, and I do hope you have your eyes opened. The south is not such a bad place. It will be difficult to form a balanced general view. Sometimes those people who offer opinions have the biggest axe to grind.

Ireland was priest ridden for decades and the Church effectively ran the state. It didn't have to have priests sitting in the Dail to do this.

[Farrandeelin]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

1) Then you need to explain how you came to the conclusion that Ireland is run by Priests?

2) By the way, religion is important to a lot of people, and if some clerics wish to argue their corner in government circles then I dont see why they should be denied such a platform.

3) Finally, good luck with this search, and I do hope you have your eyes opened. The south is not such a bad place. It will be difficult to form a balanced general view. Sometimes those people who offer opinions have the biggest axe to grind.

Ireland was priest ridden for decades and the Church effectively ran the state. It didn't have to have priests sitting in the Dail to do this.

Your sentence says 'was'. That means it's in the past. Thankfully.

[ziggysego]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

1) Then you need to explain how you came to the conclusion that Ireland is run by Priests?

2) By the way, religion is important to a lot of people, and if some clerics wish to argue their corner in government circles then I dont see why they should be denied such a platform.

3) Finally, good luck with this search, and I do hope you have your eyes opened. The south is not such a bad place. It will be difficult to form a balanced general view. Sometimes those people who offer opinions have the biggest axe to grind.

Ireland was priest ridden for decades and the Church effectively ran the state. It didn't have to have priests sitting in the Dail to do this.

British was ruled by a bloody thirsty monarchy for 100s of years. Has nothing to do with today.

[delboy]

Interesting.

How many Protestant clergy men played a part in the Stormont regime?

How many Catholic priests have been in the Dail?

Yet you still hang on to the old Paisley rhetoric.

Orior its not Paisley rhetoric, that does my views a great dis-service, for one that old bible bashing dinasour would be dead set against the removal of all religion from the state. Im against clegy in any position of political influence regardless of their particular religion.

1) Then you need to explain how you came to the conclusion that Ireland is run by Priests?

2) By the way, religion is important to a lot of people, and if some clerics wish to argue their corner in government circles then I dont see why they should be denied such a platform.

3) Finally, good luck with this search, and I do hope you have your eyes opened. The south is not such a bad place. It will be difficult to form a balanced general view. Sometimes those people who offer opinions have the biggest axe to grind.

1) I don't think its run by priests, i do think though that that religion and government don't mix, look upon this not as some judgememt of ireland past or present but a new beginning in much the same way as the american constitution was supposed to be (althought they didn't actually acheive it).
2) Im not saying religion is bad but that again religion and governance shouldn't mix, the church can look after your soul and the state can look after your body.  I also truly believe that no state should be funding religous schools as if we seperate our kids at an early age we are never going to get true intergration.
3) You'll be glad to hear that i don't think of the south as some sort of bogey man, there are a few things i'd like to see change but i certainly wouldn't see it as the worst thing in the world if we had a shared future if thats what the will of the majority of people.

[stephenite]

I knew a chap that would've had a similair outlook to yours Delboy (Garden centre Unionist etc.) and he was due a transfer down to Dublin offices from Lisburn. He was genuinely fearful of the reaction he would get from the natives - he had been down South before but had never lived there.

The one sentence that stuck out in my head was that after a few months he looked back and was amazed at how little people cared what sort of unionist he was, whether he marched up and down steets in his spare time etc. He ended marrying a native and is still there bringing up his kids, he's consistently amazed at the fact that he was only an hour or so up the road and his mindset was such that he was afraid of the move down the road for reasons that were not of his making.

You ask what a United Ireland has to offer you? The answer is quite simply - whatever you want it to........ the rest of your post is pointless dirge and excuse making, and frankly pathetic

[Shamrock Shore]

Have we any aqueducts to offer?