Why do we Bother!!!

[Roger]

[It's not sustainable now in Eire

There is no place called "Eire"(sic)  in the English Language .

Apologies for not having the know-how to get one of those accents above the "E". I presume that's why you are angry (yet again)?

[Roger]

p***k

Tourettes?

[Our Nail Loney]

Jesus that is a disgrace... Thoug saying that, my bookies changes cheques, and most the regulars bring in theirs to get changed, come of the amounts of money they get are scandalous, and for what? To sit in the bookies punting all day, then go for a few pints. My deam life, no joke!

[Roger]

Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?

It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.

Oh come on roger old chap. It wasn't that long ago that even Big(ot) Ian was advocating a United ireland of sorts when he wanted special status for 6 county beef.

Special status for NI produce is sensible given that BSE etc is low risk in NI if the outbreak is in GB. Doesn't mean one sovereign jurisdiction for everything else though.  I always thought it very ironic that the Unionists pushed for this, whilst the ROI government sealed the border and stopped buses of pensioners on a day-trip to Dublin to confiscate their ham and corned beef sarnies.  Strange world.

If one thing would change unionist attitude it would be in their pockets.

I don't think the short-term gain on current welfare benefits in ROI would be enough to make enough unionist or nationalist votes combined to vote for unification. There was some talk by ROI politicians last week that a married couple with 2 kids on €42k are now worse off by €7k since October 2008.  I don't know if this is right but it is a more scary stat than any benefits system stat to me.

I do however feel that everyone's attitudes would be and are highly influenced by their material well being although I believe to gain a swing in the vote to nationalist majority would also require any new state to provide well being improvement/maintenance combined with the ditching of a lot of the prominent trappings/culture of the current ROI state.  Currently the well being issue is one good reason to maintain the union.

From an all-island point of view, the trouble that the ROI economy is in is not good for NI imho. Some on both sides of the border may gloat about the other state's misfortune but I personally believe that for either economy to be in a mess is to the detriment of the other.  For either to be strong benefits the other.  I'm very much in favour of the two states co-operating where appropriate in business for mutual advantage.

Surely all the tattooed loyalist thugs would love the extra benefits in the republic, they could give up the drug dealing and live an honest life.

Sadly there is a lot more money in crime than benefits.  If any thugs from whatever background wish to move to the ROI to avail of the benefits there, I'll pay their bus fare.

[Roger]

I dont understand why the government see nothing wrong with this!

I don't understand why anyone can see nothing wrong with this.  I would presume that government don't really know that this has happened. 

[lynchbhoy]

The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think).  Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north.  My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well.  After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north.  It does seem a bit crazy.

Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?

It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.

...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !

so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...

the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles'  - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !

[lynchbhoy]

dole is too high here, but then so is the cost of living.
The current 'downturn/recession' is actually helping in addressing a lot of financial inequalities throughout europe and in a couple of years this wont be as bad as the disaprity seen at celtic tiger peak time.

I will try not and go off on another rant about the Irish civil service/public sector , but a root and branch trawl to identify inefficiencies and a wholesale cull of the deadwood/money haemmoraging departments needs to be done and the necessary axe swinging/personel re-deployment and early retirement etc must be done before we can attempt to put in the policies and procedures at lower detailed levels to stop any breach or flaunting of business/money spending etc as has been done by banks/financial regulator/building dev etc in recent years.

then the private sector can be addressed though it more or less regulates itself through competition/supply and demand.

After this we shoul dhave a lean model to assist with future governance and growth.
Makes it easier to assimilate a new Ireland (along with the investment and foreign gov monies needed for initial few years).

[the Deel Rover]

As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was €1,200 per month of his €1,500 mortgage, or €14,400 per annum.

Just pasted this part from the article . Is this true ? And how long is paid for ?

[Roger]

The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think).  Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north.  My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well.  After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north.  It does seem a bit crazy.

Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?

It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.

...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !

so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...

the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles'  - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !

I don't disagree in principle with your observance of people's attitudes when it comes to material advantage.  It works both ways across the Irish border, within NI and in most other states for that matter. If you think the EU, USA, and UK government are going to pay for the absorption of Northern Ireland into the Eire state, then the price might be a bit higher than these people are prepared to pay.  Keep working on them though if you want.

[lynchbhoy]

The welfare system in the south is crazy, you can get 200 euro a week for sitting on the dole, there is people in the north who work 5 days a week that after tax would barely clear £200 (it's about £60 in the north I think).  Also the pension in the south is 2 or 3 times as high in the north.  My wife was talking to a cousin of hers last week who has 4 young children in the south and they get 780 euro a week in benefits, her cousin works as well.  After she told me this I thought what are we doing living and working in the north.  It does seem a bit crazy.

Maybe we could use this to convince unionists of the benefits (pardon the pun) of a united Ireland?

It's not sustainable now in Eire or in the bizarre event of an all-island of Ireland state. Can't see how you could convince unionists or nationalists of the benefits of an Ireland united in bankruptcy.

...the same way that the unionist/loyalists 'changed their minds' when the 'Celtic tiger' was in full flow down here in Ireland.
those previously 'sworn' to 'never cross the border' from the north or Ireland into the south suddenly seemed to 'lose their principles' and had no problem heading down to Dublin to work and earn punts then euros !

so when the time is right and the economy comes back again, there wont be any question of will unionists/loyalists etc etc...

the problem is with how much the british gov , us gov and eu will assist funding and job creation /local industry in the impoverished north - given the near total reliance on civil service jobs.
All these things are resolvable, its just then a case of unionist/loyalist 'principles'  - and we now know and have seen that these dont count for much when the greenbacks are flashed in front of their face (as with most people I hasten to add).
so no need to worry roger !

I don't disagree in principle with your observance of people's attitudes when it comes to material advantage.  It works both ways across the Irish border, within NI and in most other states for that matter. If you think the EU, USA, and UK government are going to pay for the absorption of Northern Ireland into the Eire state, then the price might be a bit higher than these people are prepared to pay.  Keep working on them though if you want.

whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !

[nifan]

This whole thing of never crossing the border in the past - I doubt that was the general case for unionists.

We, and most people I knew as a kid regularly holidayed in the ROI - cork, kerry, galway particularly I remember.
I was in the likes of Achill Island with my scouts as well - which was ostensibly protestant as it was held in a church hall, but there where also catholics in it as well.

[Roger]

whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !

Even if the motivation for USA and EU was to force an Ireland state I don't think either of them will stump up money if they don't think the people here want it.  To make it motivational to swing the unionist vote to nationalist majority they would need to pay way over the odds which I don't think they would be willing to do so.  So long as people here aren't shooting each other, there is little motivation for either USA or EU to get involved.  We're not big and high profile enough imo.  HMG has a strong track record of maintaining the union between GB and NI regardless of cost.  I don't think that there is enough strong motivation to "jettison" NI from the Union based simply on cost. There is no other motivation to do so either.

[Roger]

As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was €1,200 per month of his €1,500 mortgage, or €14,400 per annum.

Just pasted this part from the article . Is this true ? And how long is paid for ?

Is there a Disability Living Allowance in the Republic?  It is the big one for "working a move" on here. 

I have to say I'm absolutely amazed at the benefits quoted on this thread for the Republic. Surely a government that has produced the last couple of budgets would be tackling this kind of system as well.  It can't last, can it?

[lynchbhoy]

whatever the british gov will pay towards jettisoning the north , it will save themmoney in the long run. I think everyone knows that they want to get rid of the north of Ireland back to unification as the policing, military, civil service etc costs run into multi billions a year.
I think it was 50 + billion for policing alone...dont know if thats the right figure- but anyhow its a lot of money and they will most def sign up to help fund the transition of re-unification at least.
The EU - well this is their kind of thing, they helped fund the German re-unification but misjudged this by a mile.
Local industry was never properly set up in the old 'east germany' and as a result it took years of struggle to get back to an even keel in Germany.
Ireland will have the benefit of this knowledge.
US - well they like to play the big shot and have funded countires like post WW2 Germany and Japan plus a few smaller ones.
they may be coaxed into putting some industry into the 9 ulster counties if not shamed into parting with money.
If they want to keep being the big shot and dabbling in Irish negotiations etc then they need to put their money where their mouth is,it is a long shot but yankee pride is a strange thing !

Even if the motivation for USA and EU was to force an Ireland state I don't think either of them will stump up money if they don't think the people here want it.  To make it motivational to swing the unionist vote to nationalist majority they would need to pay way over the odds which I don't think they would be willing to do so.  So long as people here aren't shooting each other, there is little motivation for either USA or EU to get involved.  We're not big and high profile enough imo.  HMG has a strong track record of maintaining the union between GB and NI regardless of cost.  I don't think that there is enough strong motivation to "jettison" NI from the Union based simply on cost. There is no other motivation to do so either.

you need to check out hmg's stance on the issue then. you'd better sit down as I think you are in for a surprise.
EU would more or less HAVE to fund this due to precedent.
The US dont have to but would maybe help by assistin in setting up more industry here.
The decision about when re-unification is to happen is another discussion entirely, but simply say that when the majority switches over, it then all falls onto the realm of economics and the guarantee of jobs and a decent equitable system drawn up for all citizens of Ireland, as rightfully pointed out before, nationalists wont want any jump made either until the money / health and welfare systems are sorted out for the re-newed Ireland first. unionist/loyalist intransigence will be placated by money as it always has (example given with crossing border in celtic tiger era).

in the 80's and early 90's paisley and co were shouting to all and sundry unionist/loyalists up there to never (never never) cross the border (but at the same time had their shipping companies operating in, through and with south) so it was fairly obv when unionist/loyalists started apprearing in workplaces around dublin. met and spoke to many in the late 90's early 00's myself and that is the tale they told me.
So as mentioned the 'principles' go out the window when theres economic incentive. I dont think anyone would want it otherwise.

[the scenic route]

I live on the border just north of it mind one of my mates in a similar situation as myself final year university worried about the job prospects has decided the best way we could get through the recession is if we both register in the south to relatives addresses for the dole and collect our €240 ill tell you what it does pay if your getting that and maybe clearing 100/150 pound a week for bit of cash in hand work on top of that.
Mind you id near go out and have four children and retire off the back of the benefits of them i was meaning to get back into playing a bit of golf this summer if i got the time lol