The SDLP

Started by ardmhachaabu, April 23, 2010, 09:32:25 PM

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armaghniac

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

GiveItToTheShooters

Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

armaghniac

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

GiveItToTheShooters

Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.
;D ;D would you care to provide evidence for that statement?

Snapchap

Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.

Yes, Leo "Belfast is Overseas" Varadkar is famously anti-partition.

marty34

Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.

OMG...is this statement for real.

They have as much interest in a re-united Ireland  as the SDLP have...nothing plus zero !!

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Snapchap on July 21, 2020, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.

Yes, Leo "Belfast is Overseas" Varadkar is famously anti-partition.

Nearly as bad as Londonderry Lou and her poppy scarves

Snapchap

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 21, 2020, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 21, 2020, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.

Yes, Leo "Belfast is Overseas" Varadkar is famously anti-partition.

Nearly as bad as Londonderry Lou and her poppy scarves

Yes, because Mary Lou is famously pro-partition.

Rossfan

When are Sinn Féin "delivering" a United Ireland?
How nearer have they brought it than FF/FG/Greens/SDLP etc?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Snapchap on July 21, 2020, 10:01:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 21, 2020, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on July 21, 2020, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.

Yes, Leo "Belfast is Overseas" Varadkar is famously anti-partition.

Nearly as bad as Londonderry Lou and her poppy scarves

Yes, because Mary Lou is famously pro-partition.

She is famously finger in the wind, wishy washy , moaning , crass, tube.
Londonderry FFS. Poppies FFS

armaghniac

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.
;D ;D would you care to provide evidence for that statement?

Coveney has said several times that he wants to see a United Ireland. In order for there to be serious discussion on a United Ireland people have to believe the there is a feasible plan, that the economics work. They are not going to believe in a plan produced by Martina Anderson or Barry "Bread on the Head" McElduff or in an Ireland run by these people. Coveney's calm demeanor alongside the clowns from London going on about Brexit did more for a UI than the whole of NI Sinn Féin put together.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Chief

Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.
;D ;D would you care to provide evidence for that statement?

Coveney has said several times that he wants to see a United Ireland. In order for there to be serious discussion on a United Ireland people have to believe the there is a feasible plan, that the economics work. They are not going to believe in a plan produced by Martina Anderson or Barry "Bread on the Head" McElduff or in an Ireland run by these people. Coveney's calm demeanor alongside the clowns from London going on about Brexit did more for a UI than the whole of NI Sinn Féin put together.

I disagree - people need to decide they want to accept the north as part of the Irish nation as a matter of principle first, only then can there be a discussion on how to best make it work.

You can't base this decision on economic expediency - that's no basis for building a nation.

I agree it is vital to the long term success of a United Ireland  - but not to its delivery.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: Chief on July 21, 2020, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 04:31:51 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on July 21, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 21, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Has anyone from fg in recent times expressed any interest in a united Ireland.
Of course not, they're basically irish tories and west brits.

I wouldn't oversimplify things, Coveney has made his views clear and I think Helen McEntee likewise.
The difference would be that these people actually want a United Ireland, not just to spout off about it without doing anything to achieve it.
Let me get this straight, are you saying that Coveney and others in FG want a UI, and are doing something to achieve it?

yes and yes.
;D ;D would you care to provide evidence for that statement?

Coveney has said several times that he wants to see a United Ireland. In order for there to be serious discussion on a United Ireland people have to believe the there is a feasible plan, that the economics work. They are not going to believe in a plan produced by Martina Anderson or Barry "Bread on the Head" McElduff or in an Ireland run by these people. Coveney's calm demeanor alongside the clowns from London going on about Brexit did more for a UI than the whole of NI Sinn Féin put together.

I disagree - people need to decide they want to accept the north as part of the Irish nation as a matter of principle first, only then can there be a discussion on how to best make it work.

You can't base this decision on economic expediency - that's no basis for building a nation.

I agree it is vital to the long term success of a United Ireland  - but not to its delivery.

This is the backwards approach of Sinn Fein. Somehow unite Ireland first, and only then do we start figuring out how to make it work.

The more sensible approach is to figure out ways to make it work that we can sell to northern Protestants in terms that will benefit them. If we do a good job of that then we'll get enough floating voters on board to swing the vote in our favour, and the transition to unity will be smoother and more peaceful. The SF approach is a recipe for another civil war.

Rossfan

In practice any Referendum will be decided by the "others".
Nationalists and Unionists will vote emotionally (44-40 when Ref is held) .
The 16% "others" will decide on the basis of economics, what plans or structure for the New Ireland and various other practicalities.
Remember some Northern "nationalists" on this forum previously informed us they wouldnt be voting UI of it cost them money or took away their NHS.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Evil Genius

Quote from: Chief on July 21, 2020, 11:14:30 PM
I disagree - people need to decide they want to accept the north as part of the Irish nation as a matter of principle first, only then can there be a discussion on how to best make it work.
I read this post, indeed this whole thread damn near, and to paraphrase Robbie Burns:
"O, wad some Power the giftie gie youse, To see Themmuns as they see themsels!"

I mean, "People need to decide they want to accept the north [sic] as part of the Irish nation"...

When are Nationalists (ROI and NI) going to recognise that a UI is not within their gift to accept/deliver/negotiate/coerce or anything else?

The GFA made it crystal clear that the only way there will be a UI is if a majority of people in NI voting for it in a referendum. And effectively, that means the Unionist people voting for it, as follows.

Basically, as eg the Scottish Independence or Brexit votes demonstrated, such Referenda are not about politics, they are about Identity.

And as far as Unionists are concerned, No Union = No Unionism = No Unionists. Therefore in the absence of some overriding, irresistable reason, why would we want to erase our own British identity and vote ourselves out of existence?

Now I accept that Nationalists have severe difficulty in understanding why our British identity is so important to us, fair enough. But surely even the most fervent Shinner cannot deny that it is, and that after nearly a century when it was under almost continuous threat from a variety of quarters, we're not simply going to give it up for a few kind words and promises from Dublin.

All of which explains why Unionist support for the Union remains as strong as ever, even from amongst "Garden Centre Unionists" who ordinarily have no interest in politics and don't vote in elections etc. As I show below, Unionist support for the Union is rock-solid, indeed never more so than when we saw the rise in support for Sinn Fein down south at the last election. I mean, if there was any chance whatever of us finding ourselves in a UI where SF formed even part of the government, then even the most moderate and reasonable Unionist would find himself clambering to the top of the nearest barricade to gaulder "Never! Never! Never!"

Which brings us next to the Nationalist population of NI. The long awaited demographic wave which was going to swamp the North has just about reached high tide without washing us all into a United Ireland (RC's appreciate the benefits of contraception and smaller families, too!). And even if it may still achieve the magic 50%+ 1 "majority" sometime reasonably soon, that's still nowhere near doing the trick, ironically for the self-same reason of Identity.

For the other unappreciated or misunderstood aspect of the GFA is that it finally satisfied the desire of Nationalists in NI to have their own (Irish) identity formally recognised: "Sure we're as Irish as anyone in the South".

And that identity having been recognised, given a vote in a Referendum, a high proportion of NI "Nationalists" will either not bother to vote, or will even vote to remain, for essentially socio-economic reasons: government jobs, NHS, pensions etc, above all the massive Westminster subsidy of the NI economy which Dublin either could not, or would not, take over.

All of which is consistently reflected in every opinion poll which has ever been conducted in NI this century, including eg this one from February:

Just 29% in Northern Ireland would vote for unity, major study reveals

A total of 99% of DUP and UUP voters wanted to remain in the UK compared to 92% of Sinn Fein and 81% of SDLP voters saying they would support Irish unity in a border poll.

Just 30% of Alliance voters backed a united Ireland compared to 70% supporting the Union.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/just-29-in-northern-ireland-would-vote-for-unity-major-study-reveals-38966196.html

So there you have it: all the Conferences, Study Groups, Manifestos and Five Year Plans emanating from Nationalism won't make a blind bit of difference to the Unionist population in NI, nor move us to consider giving a UI a go.

Which is not to say that we could never (never, never) be persuaded, but it's late and you're probably all bored beyond tears long ago, so I'll withhold my wisdom on that score for another day!
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"