So what do ye think of the black card rule now?

[blewuporstuffed]

i think yesterday AGAIN showed the failings of the black card rule.

1. it doesn't discourage cynical play in the slightest when it counts (i.e. a team trying to close a game out in the last 10 minutes)

2. Referees are getting as  many of these black card calls wrong as they are right, which simply isnt good enough.

3.Players are now encouraged to go to ground under almost every challenge and there is still no discouragement of diving, or the grabbing of the arm to simulate a black card offense and get a player sent off (as with the sean cavanagh/ darren hughes incident)

[orangeman]

The past number of weeks has proved that football in particular has got to the stage where it is virtually impossible to referee.

Refs are under so much pressure and the black card has not made it easier to ref - rather it has made it much, much more difficult to ref.

[AZOffaly]

i think yesterday AGAIN showed the failings of the black card rule.

1. it doesn't discourage cynical play in the slightest when it counts (i.e. a team trying to close a game out in the last 10 minutes)

It won't stop someone trying to take one for the team, as they say, but I think it has discouraged the cynical fouling out the field which was far more damaging to the game as a spectacle.

2. Referees are getting as  many of these black card calls wrong as they are right, which simply isnt good enough.

Agreed. Referees interpretation is still vital, especially because 'deliberate' is key and they have to get better at judging that.

3.Players are now encouraged to go to ground under almost every challenge and there is still no discouragement of diving, or the grabbing of the arm to simulate a black card offense and get a player sent off (as with the sean cavanagh/ darren hughes incident)

This was my greatest worry. I don't think it's been too bad thus far, but I would be worried about it alright. Maybe deliberate diving should be added to the list.

[blewuporstuffed]

i think yesterday AGAIN showed the failings of the black card rule.

1. it doesn't discourage cynical play in the slightest when it counts (i.e. a team trying to close a game out in the last 10 minutes)

It won't stop someone trying to take one for the team, as they say, but I think it has discouraged the cynical fouling out the field which was far more damaging to the game as a spectacle.

2. Referees are getting as  many of these black card calls wrong as they are right, which simply isnt good enough.

Agreed. Referees interpretation is still vital, especially because 'deliberate' is key and they have to get better at judging that.

3.Players are now encouraged to go to ground under almost every challenge and there is still no discouragement of diving, or the grabbing of the arm to simulate a black card offense and get a player sent off (as with the sean cavanagh/ darren hughes incident)

This was my greatest worry. I don't think it's been too bad thus far, but I would be worried about it alright. Maybe deliberate diving should be added to the list.

i will agree AZ that it has eliminated a lot of the body checking off the ball we used to get, which is certainly a good thing.
It has a absolutely no other redeeming features though, it is difficult to referee, leads to very inconsistent calls and as i said, does nothing to discourage the slowing down of teh game when a team are trying to see it out.

[blewuporstuffed]

The past number of weeks has proved that football in particular has got to the stage where it is virtually impossible to referee.

Refs are under so much pressure and the black card has not made it easier to ref - rather it has made it much, much more difficult to ref.

I agree with this orangeman, any new rules or rule changes should be to try and simplify the rules, not add further layers of complexity, its a tough enough job as it is.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not sure it was ever going to do anything about the 'closing a game out' scenario. Of course the punishment is a bit severe, especially if you have used all your subs or something, but I think at the end of the day people will still do whatever they can to win, and if that means taking a black card they will do it.

But I do think it has been successful in eliminating the sort of cynical behaviour which was going on all throughout the game, and usually by forwards or midfielders acting on instructions to foul quickly to allow their defence to get set.

The game I keep harking back to in this regard is the Kerry- Cavan game last year. It was a game Kerry were comfortably on top in, yet great forwards like Colm Cooper, Declan O'Sullivan and others were quite deliberately and systematically fouling Cavan defenders coming out with the ball after a turnover. This was even in the first half. I don't think Kerry would approach the game in the same manner under threat of a black card this year.

[lenny]

i think yesterday AGAIN showed the failings of the black card rule.

1. it doesn't discourage cynical play in the slightest when it counts (i.e. a team trying to close a game out in the last 10 minutes)

It won't stop someone trying to take one for the team, as they say, but I think it has discouraged the cynical fouling out the field which was far more damaging to the game as a spectacle.

2. Referees are getting as  many of these black card calls wrong as they are right, which simply isnt good enough.

Agreed. Referees interpretation is still vital, especially because 'deliberate' is key and they have to get better at judging that.

3.Players are now encouraged to go to ground under almost every challenge and there is still no discouragement of diving, or the grabbing of the arm to simulate a black card offense and get a player sent off (as with the sean cavanagh/ darren hughes incident)

This was my greatest worry. I don't think it's been too bad thus far, but I would be worried about it alright. Maybe deliberate diving should be added to the list.

i will agree AZ that it has eliminated a lot of the body checking off the ball we used to get, which is certainly a good thing.
It has a absolutely no other redeeming features though, it is difficult to referee, leads to very inconsistent calls and as i said, does nothing to discourage the slowing down of teh game when a team are trying to see it out.

It has also stopped a lot of the cynical fouling from early in matches which was becoming endemic in the game. No player wants to have to go off after a few minutes of a match so we are seeing more open football and goal chances in the first half of matches.

[LeoMc]

It should be abundantly clear now that those who invented, proposed, championed and voted for the black card have absolutely no understanding how modern-day Gaelic football is played.

Once Cavanagh retires hopefully fewer refs will be conned into giving black cards!!

Waiting on TSG now but at the time I thought Cavanagh was fouled each time, he "made sure" it was seen for the Hughes one

I've just watched the game (Sky+) - Cavanagh very clearly pulled Hughes down and both Brolly and Spillane pointed it out after the game. Once again, Hughes is cheated by Cavanagh and there's a card and a free in when it should have been a free out.

Still waiting but I am not denying it, though I thought Hughes was fouling him at the time. The only black card should have been Cavanaghs, he should have got his foul and moved on. Penrose got away with a more obvious one in the first half.

Fairly clear-cut Leo, no?

Still think Hughes might be fouling him. Do you still think it is a free out?

[BennyHarp]

It should be abundantly clear now that those who invented, proposed, championed and voted for the black card have absolutely no understanding how modern-day Gaelic football is played.

Once Cavanagh retires hopefully fewer refs will be conned into giving black cards!!

Waiting on TSG now but at the time I thought Cavanagh was fouled each time, he "made sure" it was seen for the Hughes one

I've just watched the game (Sky+) - Cavanagh very clearly pulled Hughes down and both Brolly and Spillane pointed it out after the game. Once again, Hughes is cheated by Cavanagh and there's a card and a free in when it should have been a free out.

Still waiting but I am not denying it, though I thought Hughes was fouling him at the time. The only black card should have been Cavanaghs, he should have got his foul and moved on. Penrose got away with a more obvious one in the first half.

Fairly clear-cut Leo, no?

Still think Hughes might be fouling him. Do you still think it is a free out?

Sean applies clear double sided sticky tape to his jersey before matches. The left arm of poor Hughes is clearly suck to the tape, there is nothing he can do - this is blatent cheating and should be a black card offence.

*Edit: Please note that this accusation may not be true unless verified by an RTE pundit.

[johnneycool]

i think yesterday AGAIN showed the failings of the black card rule.

1. it doesn't discourage cynical play in the slightest when it counts (i.e. a team trying to close a game out in the last 10 minutes)

It won't stop someone trying to take one for the team, as they say, but I think it has discouraged the cynical fouling out the field which was far more damaging to the game as a spectacle.

2. Referees are getting as  many of these black card calls wrong as they are right, which simply isnt good enough.

Agreed. Referees interpretation is still vital, especially because 'deliberate' is key and they have to get better at judging that.

3.Players are now encouraged to go to ground under almost every challenge and there is still no discouragement of diving, or the grabbing of the arm to simulate a black card offense and get a player sent off (as with the sean cavanagh/ darren hughes incident)

This was my greatest worry. I don't think it's been too bad thus far, but I would be worried about it alright. Maybe deliberate diving should be added to the list.

i will agree AZ that it has eliminated a lot of the body checking off the ball we used to get, which is certainly a good thing.
It has a absolutely no other redeeming features though, it is difficult to referee, leads to very inconsistent calls and as i said, does nothing to discourage the slowing down of teh game when a team are trying to see it out.

The correct use of the rule in the high profile AI club final where the lad got the black card early on for the body check probably reinforced this rule and made it abundantly clear that it was not acceptable.

The pulling down is now back to a grey area where some get off with it and some get punished. The intent aspect of it is always going to make it hard for referees.

The black card as expected has had some good aspects to in and also some poor aspects to it, its the GAA way.

The sin bin was the answer but GAA officialdom give in to the likes of Mickey Harte and Brian Cody who were very vocally against it.

[rrhf]

I can't believe there are edjits out there still in favour of the black card. We no longer talk about the game, red cards etc.  It is all about the freaking black card.  It will kill gaelic football   among even it's most ardent fans.  I know of lots of people who find this bastardised game hard to watch.

[sligoman2]

I don't agree, the level of cynical fouling has gone down significantly and the scoring and free flowing football has increased.
I repeat, the problem is not the black card rule, the problem is the incompetence of the refs to enforce the rule.  We have the same problem with the red and yellow cards.

Some people will fight any change no matter what, but I think for most people the black card is viewed as an improvement to the game (maybe not as good as the sin bin but better than nothing.

If I was in charge, I would insist on two refs to one for each half as there is no way one ref can handle the amount of action that is happening on the field.  In basketball there are three refs for only 10 players on an area about one 25th the size of a football pitch and they still mess up many calls.

[blewuporstuffed]

I don't agree, the level of cynical fouling has gone down significantly and the scoring and free flowing football has increased.
I repeat, the problem is not the black card rule, the problem is the incompetence of the refs to enforce the rule.  We have the same problem with the red and yellow cards.

Some people will fight any change no matter what, but I think for most people the black card is viewed as an improvement to the game (maybe not as good as the sin bin but better than nothing.

If I was in charge, I would insist on two refs to one for each half as there is no way one ref can handle the amount of action that is happening on the field.  In basketball there are three refs for only 10 players on an area about one 25th the size of a football pitch and they still mess up many calls.

Take a look at the poll at the top of the page

[screenexile]

I don't agree, the level of cynical fouling has gone down significantly and the scoring and free flowing football has increased.
I repeat, the problem is not the black card rule, the problem is the incompetence of the refs to enforce the rule.  We have the same problem with the red and yellow cards.

Some people will fight any change no matter what, but I think for most people the black card is viewed as an improvement to the game (maybe not as good as the sin bin but better than nothing.

If I was in charge, I would insist on two refs to one for each half as there is no way one ref can handle the amount of action that is happening on the field.  In basketball there are three refs for only 10 players on an area about one 25th the size of a football pitch and they still mess up many calls.

Take a look at the poll at the top of the page

Tis a reliable poll alright with its 26 participants!!

[blewuporstuffed]

I don't agree, the level of cynical fouling has gone down significantly and the scoring and free flowing football has increased.
I repeat, the problem is not the black card rule, the problem is the incompetence of the refs to enforce the rule.  We have the same problem with the red and yellow cards.

Some people will fight any change no matter what, but I think for most people the black card is viewed as an improvement to the game (maybe not as good as the sin bin but better than nothing.

If I was in charge, I would insist on two refs to one for each half as there is no way one ref can handle the amount of action that is happening on the field.  In basketball there are three refs for only 10 players on an area about one 25th the size of a football pitch and they still mess up many calls.

Take a look at the poll at the top of the page

Tis a reliable poll alright with its 26 participants!!

Well its certainly more reliable than one person saying 'for most people the black card is viewed as an improvement to the game' with no evidence that this is the view at all.