Quote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2024, 11:20:09 AMWhatever the opposite of cute hoorism is, a lot of Armagh fans on this board have it in abundance.
Its called giving an honest opinion.
Armagh to win by 7 and Donegal to win by 8 this weekend.
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Show posts MenuQuote from: Keyser soze on April 26, 2024, 11:20:09 AMWhatever the opposite of cute hoorism is, a lot of Armagh fans on this board have it in abundance.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 25, 2024, 09:12:54 AMI didn't see the Derry/Donegal match, but I am seriously impressed by any team allegedly out played who's best players were stymied but still managed 17 points. Goals win games but can be prevented. it was 15 scores to 17.
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2024, 10:24:41 AMI dont think Mickey Harte will be too upset that Derry are out of the Ulster. They have the medals from the last 2 years in their pockets. Its all about SAM for them now. They get a nice 4 week break to get themselves ready. I would not be writing them off at all.
Quote from: ONeill on April 19, 2024, 12:05:06 AMQuote from: omagh_gael on April 18, 2024, 07:17:32 PMThinking about how the lack of interest in games here reflect the general apathy in the community towards football. Used to be you'd have a thread for each of the big games here with multiple pages of craic, analysis and bickering. Now we've one amalgamated thread for all of ulster with very little interest or posts. You'll never see a 100page + thread of tyrone v Armagh banter ever again.
Came across this on YouTube the other day...
https://youtu.be/arMAgKKhltk?si=VJ9e3OEDG69jXF9u
It's a copy of the Sam 2005 dvd with extended highlights throughout that summer. Forgot how good these dvds were. What really stands out for me, outside of the crowds and quality of the football, was the general atmosphere in the games. The type of football played generated and sustained an almost constant noise throughout the match. The number of contests for the ball was significantly higher and its contests that generate that edge of the seat excitement that in turn created a cauldron of atmosphere and spectacle.
Youll still see unreal skills in today's game, mindblowing points and class goals. However, these are small peaks amongst the dredge we have to watch for 80% of the game. Watching games these days and I can't help but notice the level of general chat in the stands, people on phones and flatness. You'll hardly ever hear a chant outside of the odd come on you blues.
I've wrote this post as I've just completed the GAA games survey and hope that something will be found to return our game to its former glory. To me that is moving away from the obsession with possession based football and finding away to create more opportunities for contests in attack, midfield and forwards. Or maybe I'm a grumpy f**ker and will just have to accept transitions, 20+ passes back to the keeper and 30 players inside a 45 multiple times a game. What a load of shite.
The only way you can return to those days is a straight knockout from the start. It won't happen. 20 years ago I'd have sleepless nights about losing to Cavan. Now, whatever, still a lock a group games.
The GAA may be amateur but its money-making machine is as professional as the NFL in the States.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on April 18, 2024, 01:13:10 PMQuote from: yellowcard on April 18, 2024, 01:06:06 PMHe completely revolutionised tactics in gaelic football and had the tactical wherewithal and strength of personality to set a team up ultra defensively by playing zonal at the back. He didn't care one bit what anybody thought of him and probably still doesn't as it brought him an AI title that they would not have won if playing conventionally. The criticism only bolstered him and created a siege mentality that he seems to need. It was complete outside the box thinking at the time and very gutsy but don't pretend that it didn't set gaelic football back as a spectacle and which has never really recovered since then.
I don't think it was his aim to be ultra defensive because of some form of idealism, it was just that did whatever he thought was required to give them the best possible chance at winning.
Managers do whatever they have to do to win.
Look at Ancelotti last night; they sat back in the lowest of low blocks played on the break and looked to frustrate City and took their chances on a penalty shootout.
Should we Chastise Ancellotti in the same fashion?
Quote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 11:18:34 PMQuote from: yellowcard on April 16, 2024, 11:07:38 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 10:15:29 PMQuote from: screenexile on April 16, 2024, 10:05:03 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 09:08:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on April 16, 2024, 08:55:21 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 08:49:02 PMHmm, honestly if you said to me now win Ulster and go out in group or lose in Ulster and lose in a semi final I think I'd take an Ulster given a fair chunk of our team were in primary school when we last won it.Quote from: JoG2 on April 16, 2024, 05:58:47 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 03:03:17 PMQuote from: Itchy on April 16, 2024, 01:02:45 PMQuote from: Tones on April 16, 2024, 11:28:47 AMIs it really? Most counties have goals at the start of the year, get promoted, avoid relegation, beat neighbours etc. do they really need a coping mechanism of devaluing competitions, I seriously doubt it. There are about 26 counties under the new system never going win Sam, Derry don't need another Ulster but will probably win it, any other county would relish it.
I believe JoG2 was referring the fans attempting to devalue a competition as a defense mechanism for if they don't win it. Armagh will have failed this year (again) if they do not win Ulster. How anyone can think different is beyond me.
What if they lose Ulster but play in an All Ireland final. Is that a bigger failure than winning Ulster and then going out in the groups?
You're changing angles here. What is having a good year, which reaching an AI final for most teams is, got to do with questioning the value of the Anglo Celt cup which you did? A hypothetical appearance in an AI final shouldn't come into the equation.
You're Armagh yes, very surprising considering the last 15+ years winning nothing. Derry winning 2 years ago was incredible, winning back to back was, well incredible. The thought of winning a treble, well that's the stuff of dreams. Worry about any attack on a Sam after.
The answer is the Ulster Championship is not viewed in isolation You've said Armagh will have failed this year if they don't win Ulster. I disagree. They could miss out on Ulster and make an All Ireland final which to me would be far less of a failure than winning Ulster and going out in the group stages. Similarly I'd rather have been promoted this year than win Ulster. That's not to say doing both wouldn't be nice but simply that Ulster can be viewed in isolation.
You are holding the Anglo Celt up as some kind of be all and end all for the season. It's not. For me If your county would prefer to win an Ulster and nothing else this year then it's extremely meaningful. If your county would prefer a deep run in the All Ireland series then Ulster is less meaningful.
(Pointless argument anyway because if you win Ulster and go in as top seed there would be something seriously wrong if you couldnt at least make a preliminary QF)
That's a perfectly valid view but I don't think it's one universally shared. I don't feel that way and I feel a provincial championship is as meaningful as it once was.
When you have 6 teams capable of beating eachother in a one off game in a competition it's certainly an achievement to win it!!
I genuinely don't think you have that in Ulster this year but I take your point. My issue is that it's not as meaningful as it once was. I don't think any of those 6 counties are going 100% to win an Ulster at the expense of their future progress certainly not to the extent they might have in years gone bye. For me that makes it less meaningful than it used to be. As has the introduction of the back door. As has the moved to being played in April/May. As has the talk of it potentially being axed all together etc etc.
So I don't think I'm devaluing it out of some kind of coping mechanism for not winning it. I think it merely has become devalued. That's not a view shared by all and I accept that.
What do you think those counties are doing (or not doing) to lead you believe that they are giving less than 100%?
I think every county are trying their best to win a provincial title but for some it's just a safeguard mechanism that if they happen to fail along the way. The proper judgement on that will only come when the season has ended and the year as a whole can be properly assessed.
I don't think they plan to peak for a run at Ulster. I think training is set so they are at a good enough level for Ulster but hope to peak for the later matches. I think they know that being at your absolute best from April to August is much more difficult than peaking in mid to late June. I think in the modern sport science approach that many of the top counties have a similar approach.
In a similar vein I don't think fellas will risk injuries by playing when not fit in provincial games the way you would have seen in previous years.
Of course I could be wrong. As you say the only way you'll ever know is in hindsight.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 10:15:29 PMQuote from: screenexile on April 16, 2024, 10:05:03 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 09:08:59 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on April 16, 2024, 08:55:21 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 08:49:02 PMHmm, honestly if you said to me now win Ulster and go out in group or lose in Ulster and lose in a semi final I think I'd take an Ulster given a fair chunk of our team were in primary school when we last won it.Quote from: JoG2 on April 16, 2024, 05:58:47 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 16, 2024, 03:03:17 PMQuote from: Itchy on April 16, 2024, 01:02:45 PMQuote from: Tones on April 16, 2024, 11:28:47 AMIs it really? Most counties have goals at the start of the year, get promoted, avoid relegation, beat neighbours etc. do they really need a coping mechanism of devaluing competitions, I seriously doubt it. There are about 26 counties under the new system never going win Sam, Derry don't need another Ulster but will probably win it, any other county would relish it.
I believe JoG2 was referring the fans attempting to devalue a competition as a defense mechanism for if they don't win it. Armagh will have failed this year (again) if they do not win Ulster. How anyone can think different is beyond me.
What if they lose Ulster but play in an All Ireland final. Is that a bigger failure than winning Ulster and then going out in the groups?
You're changing angles here. What is having a good year, which reaching an AI final for most teams is, got to do with questioning the value of the Anglo Celt cup which you did? A hypothetical appearance in an AI final shouldn't come into the equation.
You're Armagh yes, very surprising considering the last 15+ years winning nothing. Derry winning 2 years ago was incredible, winning back to back was, well incredible. The thought of winning a treble, well that's the stuff of dreams. Worry about any attack on a Sam after.
The answer is the Ulster Championship is not viewed in isolation You've said Armagh will have failed this year if they don't win Ulster. I disagree. They could miss out on Ulster and make an All Ireland final which to me would be far less of a failure than winning Ulster and going out in the group stages. Similarly I'd rather have been promoted this year than win Ulster. That's not to say doing both wouldn't be nice but simply that Ulster can be viewed in isolation.
You are holding the Anglo Celt up as some kind of be all and end all for the season. It's not. For me If your county would prefer to win an Ulster and nothing else this year then it's extremely meaningful. If your county would prefer a deep run in the All Ireland series then Ulster is less meaningful.
(Pointless argument anyway because if you win Ulster and go in as top seed there would be something seriously wrong if you couldnt at least make a preliminary QF)
That's a perfectly valid view but I don't think it's one universally shared. I don't feel that way and I feel a provincial championship is as meaningful as it once was.
When you have 6 teams capable of beating eachother in a one off game in a competition it's certainly an achievement to win it!!
I genuinely don't think you have that in Ulster this year but I take your point. My issue is that it's not as meaningful as it once was. I don't think any of those 6 counties are going 100% to win an Ulster at the expense of their future progress certainly not to the extent they might have in years gone bye. For me that makes it less meaningful than it used to be. As has the introduction of the back door. As has the moved to being played in April/May. As has the talk of it potentially being axed all together etc etc.
So I don't think I'm devaluing it out of some kind of coping mechanism for not winning it. I think it merely has become devalued. That's not a view shared by all and I accept that.
Quote from: screenexile on April 16, 2024, 04:55:57 PMBookies only giving this one a 3pt handicap so they're wary of McGuinness and whatever shenanigans he comes up with.
I would love for us to beat Donegal this weekend but this is their AIF and do we really have the hunger to go after another Ulster title given the hardship it will entail? I don't doubt the team will be telling themselves they want to win every game but how realistic is that nowadays?
If we win that's great, but if we got beat without any big injuries I wouldn't be that disappointed.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 16, 2024, 12:18:56 PMQuote from: yellowcard on April 16, 2024, 12:13:34 PMQuote from: David McKeown on April 15, 2024, 11:25:06 PMQuote from: yellowcard on April 15, 2024, 10:04:42 PMArmagh have shown glimpses of the 2022 championship form this year but I'd still be worried that they will slip back into last years negative mindset when faced with better opposition. The same thing happened in the League final again when the stakes were heightened and the fear of losing took over.
The Ulster final, should we get there, could well be the defining game of the season because they won't be winning an All Ireland title. For a lot of those players it's probably the last chance saloon to try and win meaningful silverware.
Is it meaningful silverware?
At the start of the year there are 4 trophies you can win. Provincial pres season cup, divisional League, provincial championship and AI title. If you think it's not meaningful silverware then the 31 counties who fail to win Sam Maguire will have been failures at the end of the season.
Success shouldn't be judged purely on silverware anyway imo since its all relative to a counties resources and current standing. No doubt the provincial championships have been devalued now but its still meaningful silverware and a prize worth lifting certainly for a county who haven't had much recent success. I'd probably put a division one League title above a provincial title now since its a national title where you have beaten the best 8 teams in the country over a 2 month period.
Which is fair enough however in the terms of value winning Ulster will mean 1st seed and avoiding Kerry,Dublin in the group stage.
Quote from: SouthOfThe Bann on April 16, 2024, 12:05:41 PMQuote from: clonian on April 16, 2024, 09:01:39 AMQuote from: ck on April 15, 2024, 11:14:08 AMThat last podcast annoyed my head and I usually like the podcasts. I'm 100% a GAA man 1st and foremost but the constant it's nothing unless the GAA do it is bollox. My lads go to the local soccer club and they're very much a community club and do a lot for the people in the area and are absolutely delighted that they had a load of lads and girls from the surrounding GAA clubs playing with them.Quote from: Mario on April 15, 2024, 10:36:15 AMHe wrote an article the week before the league final saying it would be a success if Derry get within 6 points of this amazing Dublin team. Since then he's made a few comments that it's only the league. Then on his podcast last week he said he'll support those Derry lads no matter what as they are giving everything for the jersey, it's just Mickey Harte he doesn't like, but a few months ago he was saying no Derry player is good enough to start the Dublin team. The quality just isn't there and processed football can only get you so far.
From a football point of view he wants nothing more than Dublin to hammer everyone and he can then somehow link it to Pat Gilroy.
As a Dungiven man I find it very hard to listen to him these days. He is a walking contradiction. He's not stupid and I suppose he is staying relevant as we are talking about him so he's probably achieving what he set out to do.
I struggle to listen to Brolly anymore too. Used to enjoy him but he comes across now as slightly unhinged. Uses his platforms to target those who he hates incl Derry players and strikes me as a man who is content when Derry lose, he's not a real supporter. It's pretty clear to me of those who he targets have all one thing in common, he's highly jealous of them. He only ever has one objective and that is to make everything about him!!
He hadn't even the humility to check the history of the people he mentioned in it. "Do you think Gary Neville and David Beckham give a shit about Man Utd after they left them?" No wonder people from other sports don't like the GAA
Yeah its cringeworthy stuff from Brolly.
Why cant we say how great one sport is without having to run down another.
Unless its rugby just to wind them up haha.