Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[BennyCake]

Depending on the exit to Tier 2 parameter proposals, Derry could well be playing Cavan or Monaghan in the qualifiers (probably not Cork due to the Munster setup). IF they are good enough to beat them then they continue in Tier 1, same as now. If not, then they drop into Tier 2 were they will have more games and a potential CP All-Ireland final which would help progression more than not playing.

You didn't answer my question!

In my own county's case, we got a great boost from beating Derry in Celtic Park in 2013, when we were near the bottom of Division 3 in the league. The impetus from that drove us to promotion first to Division 2 and then to Division 1 and a decent improvement in our championship performances even if we didn't win any titles.

I'm not so sure we'd have gotten the same bounce from winning a B title in an empty Croke Park on a Saturday afternoon.

Yeah good point. That's why I favour an open draw. Lesser teams getting a good run would do more for football in that county than any league title or coaching.

[JoG2]

Depending on the exit to Tier 2 parameter proposals, Derry could well be playing Cavan or Monaghan in the qualifiers (probably not Cork due to the Munster setup). IF they are good enough to beat them then they continue in Tier 1, same as now. If not, then they drop into Tier 2 were they will have more games and a potential CP All-Ireland final which would help progression more than not playing.

You didn't answer my question!

In my own county's case, we got a great boost from beating Derry in Celtic Park in 2013, when we were near the bottom of Division 3 in the league. The impetus from that drove us to promotion first to Division 2 and then to Division 1 and a decent improvement in our championship performances even if we didn't win any titles.

I'm not so sure we'd have gotten the same bounce from winning a B title in an empty Croke Park on a Saturday afternoon.

In a word, at the minute, yes tbh.  If Derry continues to progress next year, my answer will probably change.
Derry could win 1/2 Ulster games against the likes of Cavan / Monaghan (great boosts) in Ulster. They could also potentially beat either Cavan or Monaghan in Rd 1 of the qualifiers (happy days again), then get knocked out of Rd 2 of the qualifiers...in the present setup they'd be gone for the summer.
You talk of progress, Derry would, imo progress much more as a unit by playing say 3 / 4/ 5 more competitive games during the summer in Tier 2 (you'd guess mostly Div 3 teams in the latter rounds).

We know were we are at the moment, but potential wise, we're in a much better position than a lot of teams who will continue to be canon fodder in a 1 size fits all championship.

[Keyser soze]

With all this progressing that all these crap teams are gonna make under tiers it will be no time at all until everybody will be back playing in the top tier!!

[Sportacus]

Buzzing tonight.  Antrim beat Louth.  Can't wait for the draw on Monday morning.  Feck the 2nd tier. This is what we live for, not a poxy 2nd tier which no one talks about.

[irish345]

Could this be an idea that could work play 4 provincials and the 4 provincials champions get into the quarter finals  the 28 provincial losers go into a 28 team unseeded tournament  with 28 teams you have to give 4 teams a bye that could be the 4 provincial final losers but dont protect them in the last 16 of the qualifiers once there 4 teams left from the qualifiers they join the 4 champions in quarter finals  this kind of similar system to what we have now but semi final losers will be entering in the 1st round and provincial final losers would have to play 2 win two games to make it into the last 8 

[thewobbler]

Things I'll never understand on threads like this.

1. Why people continually wish to create paths (back doors) for beaten teams to re enter-the competition. In the overwhelming majority of cases these beaten teams have genuinely no chance of winning the trophy. So all this does is bloat and elongate the competition unnecessarily.

2. Why anyone believes we need a second tier football championship. We already have one of those, it's called CLUB FOOTBALL. Club football needs multiple grades, as it ultimately must provide a past time for players of all abilities.  County football doesn't need to do this. It is an elite level sport.

3. Why anyone believes that the media, the general public, and even the majority of potentially available players would give even the slightest damn about a second tier county competition. It's almost as though people are deliberately ignoring everything we've learned from hurling over the past decade. And now we've hurling fans on social media bemoaning that RTE wont cover games with 200 spectators at them. Is that who you want to be in 5 years' time?

4. Why anyone on this earth would want to watch Antrim play Wicklow in round 1 of a championship, whether an open draw all county championship, or an open draw tier two championship. How to make sure the amazingly passive footballers of Antrim actually arrive at a complete stop, is to take away local derbies and associated media frenzy.

——-

If we want a high quality championship, then limit the number of games the weaker teams are faced with.

If we want to ensure that footballing counties can awaken from a slumber, then we can't eject them from the All Ireland. There is a great generation of 11 year olds in every single county right now. But they won't come close to fulfilling their potential unless the carrot of Gaelic Games is strong.

—-

Solution?


Go back to provincial championships.

Up to the provincial finals, beaten teams from National League d1 and d2 go into the back door once they've been beaten, and face-off until there's 4 teams playing 4 beaten provincial finalists.

Teams from d3 and d4 do not get a second chance unless they make the provincial final.

Club football becomes king again by the start of June in half the counties in Ireland.

[High Fielder]

So many structures and solutions and every one of them ignoring what by now should be blatantly obvious. County boundaries are conceptually a great way of dividing players into teams, but it doesn't work. It would be great to live in a world where every team has a chance, but that's just dreaming. The GAA has to find a way of making its sport inclusive. It needs to provide a platform for the hurler in Leitrim to play at the highest level. Otherwise, it might as well say we have nothing for you, and we go on as we're going, blowing smoke up the big counties holes

[thewobbler]

That's a pretty shite idea.

A team could be beaten in the preliminary round and enter the back door while the team who beat them gets nothing for winning 2 matches in the provincial championship.

But the problem i'm detecting is that you've no idea what you want. Only that somehow, you want it that the most unequal of things - sport - can be contrived into egalitarianism.

[trailer]

Look at Antrim beating Louth. The reaction was similar to winning the AI for Antrim. Another reason for a tiered championship as if it were needed.

[thewobbler]

So many structures and solutions and every one of them ignoring what by now should be blatantly obvious. County boundaries are conceptually a great way of dividing players into teams, but it doesn't work. It would be great to live in a world where every team has a chance, but that's just dreaming. The GAA has to find a way of making its sport inclusive. It needs to provide a platform for the hurler in Leitrim to play at the highest level. Otherwise, it might as well say we have nothing for you, and we go on as we're going, blowing smoke up the big counties holes

Gaelic Football has two USPs over soccer: 1. it's a more manly pursuit, 2. its one-life-one-club ethos creates a sense of place.

If you genuinely believe that the GAA could grow in strength through the destruction of its second USP, then I'd question your sanity.

[trailer]

Look at Antrim beating Louth. The reaction was similar to winning the AI for Antrim. Another reason for a tiered championship as if it were needed.

Nonsense on both counts.

Lenny Harbinson said as much.

[High Fielder]

So many structures and solutions and every one of them ignoring what by now should be blatantly obvious. County boundaries are conceptually a great way of dividing players into teams, but it doesn't work. It would be great to live in a world where every team has a chance, but that's just dreaming. The GAA has to find a way of making its sport inclusive. It needs to provide a platform for the hurler in Leitrim to play at the highest level. Otherwise, it might as well say we have nothing for you, and we go on as we're going, blowing smoke up the big counties holes

Gaelic Football has two USPs over soccer: 1. it's a more manly pursuit, 2. its one-life-one-club ethos creates a sense of place.

If you genuinely believe that the GAA could grow in strength through the destruction of its second USP, then I'd question your sanity.

Attendances at county level suggest the USP is not what you think it is. And I'm speaking about that level only

[thewobbler]

So many structures and solutions and every one of them ignoring what by now should be blatantly obvious. County boundaries are conceptually a great way of dividing players into teams, but it doesn't work. It would be great to live in a world where every team has a chance, but that's just dreaming. The GAA has to find a way of making its sport inclusive. It needs to provide a platform for the hurler in Leitrim to play at the highest level. Otherwise, it might as well say we have nothing for you, and we go on as we're going, blowing smoke up the big counties holes

Gaelic Football has two USPs over soccer: 1. it's a more manly pursuit, 2. its one-life-one-club ethos creates a sense of place.

If you genuinely believe that the GAA could grow in strength through the destruction of its second USP, then I'd question your sanity.

Attendances at county level suggest the USP is not what you think it is. And I'm speaking about that level only

Attendances at Railway Cup, Sigerson Cup and even international rules matches in the past 20 years should give you the evidence you need, that you can put all the greatest exponents of the game on display, but unless the match engenders a community loyalty, then nobody will turn up. Nobody.

Meanwhile there'll be 5,000 people will watch Down C take on Antrim B in the McKenna Cup on a freezing cold, pissing wet January evening.

Interest might be waning in county football. But only to 1980s levels so far. It can return to noughties  levels of interest quickly.

[High Fielder]

How? And is it fair, year on year, to ask small counties to essentially play for nothing? If there was nobody watching, I'd rather anyone who wanted to play a sport had a chance of getting somewhere. This system is so badly designed that it negates that possibility. If I'm a good young soccer player, I can progress. Not in the GAA.

[thewobbler]

How?

Because when Kerry dominated football in the 70s and 80s, you could have fitted an average championship match attendance in a large chapel. And that's when it was straight "all on the day" knockout ffs. Things picked up when Meath and Cork broke the stranglehold, went up a gear again when the Ulster teams burst through, and peaked in the early noughties when there are three outstanding sides, and a useful supporting cast of counties.

—-

We are currently at close to, or at the bottom, of the arc. Eventually Dublin will stop dominating. And county attendances will slowly rise again.