Laois Divisional Championship

Started by Don Draper, September 17, 2018, 10:11:44 AM

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Pablo Escobar

Steven Miller makes a great point that a North Laois team could work in the Laois senior championship. As it stands Mountmellick, The Rock , Kilcavan, Rosenallis, Clonaslee, Castletown and other clubs predominantly hurling in nature could be viable and most competitive . I also believe a South Laois  team made up of Annanough , Park/Rathineska , Timahoe, Barrowhouse, Spink, The Harps etc could also work. I believe the two teams would be two great additions to the senior championship. The North Laois team would be very strong . I hope the legacy of this divisional competition is that these two divisional teams are introduced into the senior championship and that the gaels situation is abandoned . The county board should support both of theses teams and appoint managers like they have for these competitions

Chrimtain

Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 15, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
Steven Miller makes a great point that a North Laois team could work in the Laois senior championship. As it stands Mountmellick, The Rock , Kilcavan, Rosenallis, Clonaslee, Castletown and other clubs predominantly hurling in nature could be viable and most competitive . I also believe a South Laois  team made up of Annanough , Park/Rathineska , Timahoe, Barrowhouse, Spink, The Harps etc could also work. I believe the two teams would be two great additions to the senior championship. The North Laois team would be very strong . I hope the legacy of this divisional competition is that these two divisional teams are introduced into the senior championship and that the gaels situation is abandoned . The county board should support both of theses teams and appoint managers like they have for these competitions

This sounds like a very good idea.

SCFC

Quote from: Chrimtain on October 16, 2018, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 15, 2018, 10:17:33 PM
Steven Miller makes a great point that a North Laois team could work in the Laois senior championship. As it stands Mountmellick, The Rock , Kilcavan, Rosenallis, Clonaslee, Castletown and other clubs predominantly hurling in nature could be viable and most competitive . I also believe a South Laois  team made up of Annanough , Park/Rathineska , Timahoe, Barrowhouse, Spink, The Harps etc could also work. I believe the two teams would be two great additions to the senior championship. The North Laois team would be very strong . I hope the legacy of this divisional competition is that these two divisional teams are introduced into the senior championship and that the gaels situation is abandoned . The county board should support both of theses teams and appoint managers like they have for these competitions

This sounds like a very good idea.

When push comes to shove I'm not so sure.

I'd have advocated a few area teams for a long time now but we already have 16 senior clubs in their own right.

Now, of course 16 is too many and adding another two to make it 18 would be crazy but the big problem is getting the 16 senior clubs (who are a powerful voting block) to back their own numbers being reduced.

I can't imagine the last couple of intermediate champions, Emo and Courtwood being delighted with having to take on the whole north west of the county! Or some of the other senior teams who are constantly in the relegation battle such as Ballyfin or The Heath.

A complete overhaul is needed not throwing in two big area teams.

We'd be much better off having eight senior clubs and four decent area senior teams.

If for arguments sake the 8 senior clubs were Josephs, Portlaoise, Portarlington, O'Dempseys, Graigue, Ballyroan, Stradbally and Killeshin, it would leave the likes of Crettyard, Emo, Ballylinan and the two Arles teams available to be part of area teams.

Wouldn't a Na Fianna team of Ballylinan, the two Arles teams, Crettyard and Barrowhouse be logical?

Then maybe Timahoe, Park Ratheniska, Annanough and The Heath.

Emo, The Rock, Courtwood, Mountmellick and Kilcavan.

Then a kind of "hurling area" team of Spink, Harps, Ballyfin, Rosenallis, Clonaslee, Slieve Bloom, Camross and all the other junior B and C clubs.


Pablo Escobar

This would of course be the ideal situation as we have far too many senior clubs. Kerry only have eight I believe. The 4 area teams you have outlined would work but it's the getting down to 8 that is the problem . I think we had a ridiculous number of senior teams in the mid 90s, definitely in the 20's possibly more.

Downtheroad

Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 16, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
This would of course be the ideal situation as we have far too many senior clubs. Kerry only have eight I believe. The 4 area teams you have outlined would work but it's the getting down to 8 that is the problem . I think we had a ridiculous number of senior teams in the mid 90s, definitely in the 20's possibly more.
Most counties have pared back the numbers at Senior level over the past decade. Tipperary, Wexford and Galway have cut numbers in a big way. Kerry has 8 senior clubs  while Laois are persisting with 16. 12 senior sides and 4 divisional sides would make things interesting. We also would then have a decent intermediate championship. The problem in Laois is that any team apart from Portlaoise can be relegated in a given year with the converse that all teams could potentially reach the final if they avoid Portlaoise. In 2017, Ballyfin arguably  the weakest in Senior going into 2019 were capable of beating Stradbally only last year. 

Junior Ex Laoistalk

#80
Laois Divisional Trial Tournament. 
Round 2, Saturday 20th Oct

West Northwest v North East    Mountmellick: 4.45pm
East Central v South East          Stradbally: 6.30pm

Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit!

Chrimtain

Quote from: Junior Ex Laoistalk on October 17, 2018, 02:19:54 AM
Laois Divisional Trial Tournament.  Round 2

Mountmellick: 4.45pm    West Northwest v North East
Stradbally: 6.30pm         East Central v South East

On Saturday?

From the Terrace

Great to see everyone buying into this. Could be the first step to a divisional in our senior championship. I think its the way forward, anyone im talking too is sick of these gaels teams. You would just have to look at mountmellick if you drove through the week before the county final you would barely notice a flag around the place. The county board need to sort our SFC there are at least 4-6 teams too many there.

Laois Rising

Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Clubber Lang

Definite merits in that idea and would make for exciting championship games in 2019 and 2020 for very different reasons. Fight to stay up next year would be huge and the following year Portlaoise would be seriously tested. Couldn't imagine a number of clubs supporting such a proposal however as they will always put their own self interests and preservation as a "senior" club first.

Pablo Escobar

Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Great post and it should  definitely be considered by the county board. Let's hope they are reading 😉

Helix

Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 17, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Great post and it should  definitely be considered by the county board. Let's hope they are reading 😉

Great point but I'd be surprised if county board bought into some common sense though.
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail

Zooming around

Quote from: Helix on October 17, 2018, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 17, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Great post and it should  definitely be considered by the county board. Let's hope they are reading 😉

Great point but I'd be surprised if county board bought into some common sense though.

The county board do not make those decisions. They can merely come with proposals. The clubs make the decision. Those idea(s) mentioned above are very good but it would mean a lot of clubs voting, in effect, to relegate themselves. I have yet to see a turkey vote for Christmas.

SCFC

Quote from: Zooming around on October 18, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
Quote from: Helix on October 17, 2018, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 17, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Great post and it should  definitely be considered by the county board. Let's hope they are reading 😉

Great point but I'd be surprised if county board bought into some common sense though.

The county board do not make those decisions. They can merely come with proposals. The clubs make the decision. Those idea(s) mentioned above are very good but it would mean a lot of clubs voting, in effect, to relegate themselves. I have yet to see a turkey vote for Christmas.
That's the point I made earlier in the thread. The 16 senior football clubs are never going to back a proposal that eight of them get relegated in one year.
There might be some chance of doing it on an incremental basis. Two or three down each year until the desired number is reached.

Downtheroad

Quote from: Zooming around on October 18, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
Quote from: Helix on October 17, 2018, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: Pablo Escobar on October 17, 2018, 06:39:57 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: Laois Rising on October 17, 2018, 04:08:07 PM
simple way of reducing the championship from 16 to 12 teams. In Limerick they reduced their hurling championship from 16 to 12 in one year by dividing the 16 clubs in 4 groups of 4. The two team teams in each group progress to quarter finals. The bottom team in each group automatically relegated.

Unfortunately you are left in the position that the intermediate champions do not gain automatic promotion that year. If you wanted to give them promotion then you could have the 3rd place teams in the group play relegation semi-finals and relegation final with one team eventually losing out. 

If you were to go the whole hog (which I would do). Top eight teams progress to quarter finals and bottom eight teams relegated to intermediate.
Then for the start of the following year's championship (2020) I would then create my four regional sides meaning that their are 12 teams in the championship (8 individual clubs and 4 regional sides). Any club that is not playing at senior level, their players are eligible to play senior for their regional side (similar to kerry model). If a club is promoted to senior then those players are no longer eligible to play for the regional team. Therefore every club is playing individually at their right level and it will do away once and for all with some of these ridiculous amalgamations that we have e.g. crettyard/spink where some of the spink (in reality Ballinakill hurlers) players are kicking a football for the first time that year playing in a competitive championship match.

It's just a thought but it would really strengthen our championship and could be fully up and running by championship 2020.



Great post and it should  definitely be considered by the county board. Let's hope they are reading 😉

Great point but I'd be surprised if county board bought into some common sense though.

The county board do not make those decisions. They can merely come with proposals. The clubs make the decision. Those idea(s) mentioned above are very good but it would mean a lot of clubs voting, in effect, to relegate themselves. I have yet to see a turkey vote for Christmas.
A number of other counties have voted recently for significant overhauls of their championships but I think the vibes in our own county are fairly negative when the subject is mooted.  One of the reasons why Cork and Kerry win a lot of the All Ireland intermediate and junior football champions is the divisional system. It's the same in hurling with Kiilkenny who have such a competitive intermediate and junior championships because there are only 12 clubs in the top 2 tiers.