Down Club Hurling & Football

[snoopdog]

If we win Div 3 next year then we should be in the All Ireland series barring another draw that sees sligo or Leitrim on the one side of connacht. Meath are Div 2 and hardly relegation fodder. So I'd be hopeful of winning Div 3. Clare won't be easy but they lost their great manager Collins.  We really should be winning div next term. Alot of S&C needed.  Ohagan won't be back  till spring. Will Mooney make a difference? Who else from the U20s can come in?  Guys have done well and myself and the kids have had some great days and nights out with this team and the U20s this year. Keep it up lads, as disappointing as yesterday was  its great to be back in croke pk and being competitive. Remember Meath are a division above us and take out the freak goal there wasn't a hell of a difference bar their forwards. We struggle to score from distance they didn't in the 2nd half yesterday. 
Monaghan and Derry should be a  plan to follow.

[grounded]

Meath set up perfectly against us. They know we struggle around the middle and like to build from the back so they set to push up from the start. The middle 8 players really struggled to get any real impact on the game. I'd agree thag the dodgy goal knocked us for 6 at a time when we wwre well on top. Thats where you want a keeper to be more commanding or communicative. Really should have bknown that that shot was going to hit the post. Havern seemed to be caught by surprise when it came off and couldnt adjust himself. Forward line really misfired after a dream match against laois. Ryan J probably only player that played any sort of a decent game today

Ach in fairness you can't really blame the keeper or Havern for that. Pure fluke. Apart from that spot on with everything else.

I can blame the goalie. I played with brendan mcveigh for many years and he was great for keeping the defenders thinking the ball was coming off the post. Bobo should have been doing the same. Havern looked lost under it whereas if he knew it was coming off the post he would have looked up at the very least and then judged his postiiton accordingly

So your blaming Kane for the goal?
    You could definitely level criticism of him for some poor kick outs ( i would add that our lack of a competitive midfield forces the keeper to take more risky options under the press). You could definitely level Criticism of him after the Armagh/Fermanagh game but that is unfair to blame him for that flukey goal.

[urbangael]

My fear before the game was our lack of physicality and so it proved. Wiped out in the middle third. I also had a bad feeling we wouldn't get a goal. So often the case a team bangs a load of goals and goes out the next day and nothing. The first goal could've been avoided. Bobo still lacks presence for me and was totally flat footed. After that he wobbled and in fairness the whole team did it was a big turning point. Kerrs miss was the other big turning point. If he hit the net I think it's a different game 2nd half. It's fine margins. Maybe some players got a bit carried away with the hype. Meath had played at a higher level. Some Down folk thought it was just a matter of turning up based on the laois game. Realistically a div 1 team in down would probably have beaten laois that day. This year has been an improvement but there is a lot of work to do.

[Nanderson]

Meath set up perfectly against us. They know we struggle around the middle and like to build from the back so they set to push up from the start. The middle 8 players really struggled to get any real impact on the game. I'd agree thag the dodgy goal knocked us for 6 at a time when we wwre well on top. Thats where you want a keeper to be more commanding or communicative. Really should have bknown that that shot was going to hit the post. Havern seemed to be caught by surprise when it came off and couldnt adjust himself. Forward line really misfired after a dream match against laois. Ryan J probably only player that played any sort of a decent game today

Ach in fairness you can't really blame the keeper or Havern for that. Pure fluke. Apart from that spot on with everything else.

I can blame the goalie. I played with brendan mcveigh for many years and he was great for keeping the defenders thinking the ball was coming off the post. Bobo should have been doing the same. Havern looked lost under it whereas if he knew it was coming off the post he would have looked up at the very least and then judged his postiiton accordingly

So your blaming Kane for the goal?
    You could definitely level criticism of him for some poor kick outs ( i would add that our lack of a competitive midfield forces the keeper to take more risky options under the press). You could definitely level Criticism of him after the Armagh/Fermanagh game but that is unfair to blame him for that flukey goal.

Yes sure it was very unlucky the way it came off the post right down on top of an unsuspecting havern but im saying he would have known that ball was either going to hit the post or come close to it. If he let havern know it was coming off the post he may have been more alert to it dropping. As i said brendan mcveigh was one of the best keepers for doing this even if a ball was going 2 feet either side of the post he would still make you think it was coming off the post so you would always be aware. Agree that probably being a goalie for down is one of the most hateful positions to ever play in now that we dont possess any real ability to win good clean ball around the middle so goalkeeper has to take more risks in playing the ball short. One thing we can do to alleviate teams that press up on us is get the kickout away early before they have time to set up on us. We also had a bit of luck in the long kickout over the top then flicking it on to the half forward line

[Gaelforce123]

Personally feel Management lost this one. Did a great job tactically getting to this stage but to go up against a very big Meath team with Guinness at Midfield, put our best fielder of the ball at full forward for large periods, i just could not see the benefits or potential benefits. Meath pushed up very strong on our kickouts to force the long kickout knowing they had the upper hand in middle third, that was easy to see. Im not a fan of McEvoy but surely him and Patrick Branagan should have been on much earlier and even Carr after his performance at Midfield a few weeks back. I thought Doherty had a good game as did Eugene, Rooney was quiet. L Kerr was exposed to his one sided approach they marshalled him down the right side didnt let him get in. Meath got it 100% tactically and unfortunately we looked like we had no plan B. Their big men got an easy run of it and kicked some great second half scores, Down were still close but i feel got it wrong on the line. A more positive season all in all and hopefully more to come but we will need to unearth some bigger men with talent. Missing Mooney and Donnelly and Ohagan

[grounded]

Meath set up perfectly against us. They know we struggle around the middle and like to build from the back so they set to push up from the start. The middle 8 players really struggled to get any real impact on the game. I'd agree thag the dodgy goal knocked us for 6 at a time when we wwre well on top. Thats where you want a keeper to be more commanding or communicative. Really should have bknown that that shot was going to hit the post. Havern seemed to be caught by surprise when it came off and couldnt adjust himself. Forward line really misfired after a dream match against laois. Ryan J probably only player that played any sort of a decent game today

Ach in fairness you can't really blame the keeper or Havern for that. Pure fluke. Apart from that spot on with everything else.

I can blame the goalie. I played with brendan mcveigh for many years and he was great for keeping the defenders thinking the ball was coming off the post. Bobo should have been doing the same. Havern looked lost under it whereas if he knew it was coming off the post he would have looked up at the very least and then judged his postiiton accordingly

So your blaming Kane for the goal?
    You could definitely level criticism of him for some poor kick outs ( i would add that our lack of a competitive midfield forces the keeper to take more risky options under the press). You could definitely level Criticism of him after the Armagh/Fermanagh game but that is unfair to blame him for that flukey goal.

Yes sure it was very unlucky the way it came off the post right down on top of an unsuspecting havern but im saying he would have known that ball was either going to hit the post or come close to it. If he let havern know it was coming off the post he may have been more alert to it dropping. As i said brendan mcveigh was one of the best keepers for doing this even if a ball was going 2 feet either side of the post he would still make you think it was coming off the post so you would always be aware. Agree that probably being a goalie for down is one of the most hateful positions to ever play in now that we dont possess any real ability to win good clean ball around the middle so goalkeeper has to take more risks in playing the ball short. One thing we can do to alleviate teams that press up on us is get the kickout away early before they have time to set up on us. We also had a bit of luck in the long kickout over the top then flicking it on to the half forward line

If we are talking about goalkeepers particularly, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
        At the minute the gold standard is probably someone like Rory Beggan. He can pretty much do it all but btw is far from infallible.
   Kane has a lot of experience having been to Croke with Kilcoo and now Down. He's a decent shot stopper, good for long distance free kicks/45's and reasonable at kickouts.
    He's suspect under high balls, not very mobile and only reasonable at kickouts.
We have young Smyth coming through from the bridge and he may given time and experience be a better option.
    I'm old enough to remember Brendan play for Down and a fine keeper he was. He played with at least a functioning midfield, but he had his faults just the same. He had difficulty with short kickouts and he would have struggled as a keeper in the current Down setup.
     Our real problem as you alluded to is a lack of a midfield(i include halfbacks/forwards) who can really compete for the ball. Not since Gordon in his pomp have we been able to compete at intercounty level never mind dominate.
  Lavery knows this and he's set the team up to effectively bypass midfield.   
     Unfortunarely every other county knows this and it will always be an achilles heal until we unearth some talent there. What difference a Connor Glass would make!
    Anyway, its Lavery's first year. I'm happy with the progress he has made so far. At the very least, morale in the county has been boosted.
   

[ardtole]

If we had to have taken one of our goal chances I think we would have kicked on and won. There has unquestionably been huge improvements over the year but there is huge disappointment losing out on promotion and losing yesterday.

There will be significant pressure and expectation to win promotion next season. Westmeath will probably be our toughest opponents and they will be looking to kick on from a decent All Ireland series performance in a tough group this year.

Most years promotion from div3 will secure a place in that years all ireland series and that will be our immediate goal starting off next year. A favourable draw in the Ulster championship might give us an opportunity to achieve that either and I feel we are definitely closing the gap on the stronger teams in Ulster. But an Ulster final appearance is still probably beyond us realistically.

Highlights of the year for me were, beating Donegal in Newry. Beating Cavan in the Tailtain cup and the atmosphere in general at the home games.

Negatives were our performance v Armagh, nothing went right, the weather was dreadful Armagh got the rub off the green with goals etc.

Losing to Fermanagh which ultimately cost us promotion, and under performing yesterday when a win would have given us a clear sign of progress and a guaranteed slot in next years All Ireland series.

[SHEEDY]

Disappointing end to the year yesterday, definite progress made though. Players and management gave us some good days out and there's a pride in the county team again.

On the match itself, same as a couple of others i thought McEvoy and Paddy Brannigan should've been brought in earlier. Meath definitely out muscled us and we struggled winning any ball at midfield, seen a stat saying we won possession 18/27 from our own kick outs which is a poor statistic in modern game. We also struggle to kick points from distance which Meath done well at yesterday.
Next year's main aim has to be getting out of division 3 and playing teams like Meath more regularly.

Hopefully we'll see a lot of the 'new' fans that were there yesterday at the first league game in February.

[Lotto]

I really feel for the players, they put so much into the league and B championship just to come up very short yesterday. The management have a responsibility to keep everyone grounded but yesterday I got the vibe that all they had to do was turn up. There was too much going on in the buildup, have breakfast with the team, join us for a celebration dinner afterwards! Catch a grip on yourselves and stop getting carried away, go play and win the game. They were let down by an inexperienced manager who looked so lost and clueless, he might be a decent coach but he was left looking like a wee boy along the line. His allegiance to Kilcoo cost him again yesterday when the curly finger should have been used. Like Canavan said pre game, the coaching of Jimmy Mc Guinness was evident in the way Down had played on the way to the final but it was boys v men yesterday.

[downtothecore]

Lavery may be inexperienced lotto but he is still our best option I think. He is done well for down considering there been very poor underage been brought through the ranks except for the teams he worked with. I do think though he and the setup would benefit from a new face along side him next year possibly a micky Moran / sean boylan type. What you think? Or wud you ship him out the door now.

[Lotto]

And what difference would either of those make. He is the manager, again he looked lost along the line yesterday and frequently clueless. Not sure what Mc Guinness does on match day but all of his other men don't seem to have much input or influence. I'd have Mc Guinness along the line and just let Laverty be a coach as he hasn't a clue how to be a manager.

[downtothecore]

McGuinness would be nice but is he interested and willing to take the role, I dont think so therefore there is no better options in my opinion other than to enhance and support the current management setup. Are u aware of better available options?

[Minus15]

And what difference would either of those make. He is the manager, again he looked lost along the line yesterday and frequently clueless. Not sure what Mc Guinness does on match day but all of his other men don't seem to have much input or influence. I'd have Mc Guinness along the line and just let Laverty be a coach as he hasn't a clue how to be a manager.

Explain how he looked lost. What did you see that leads you to that conclusion?

[PAULD123]

And what difference would either of those make. He is the manager, again he looked lost along the line yesterday and frequently clueless. Not sure what Mc Guinness does on match day but all of his other men don't seem to have much input or influence. I'd have Mc Guinness along the line and just let Laverty be a coach as he hasn't a clue how to be a manager.

That's pretty harsh. New manager tested at a level that, yes, he admittedly came up short in. But he has made great progress at both age levels. He has made us entertaining again and his team look enthusiastic and united together.

saying he hasn't a clue how to be a manager is an exaggeration, he hasn't so far become a really goo manager but he certainly has managed fairly well, certainly better than we had.

[Johnnysboys]

It has to go down as a poor year - hear me out. We lost out in a reasonably poor division 3 with Cavan being the exception. Had Antrim and Westmeath taken their chances it could've been embarrassing. Then we won an ulster championship game for the first time in ages and follow it up with as bad a performance tactically as I've seen in a long time. I don't want to hear about Armagh being on the road longer etc etc as that means nothing when it's a game between 30 players at the same so called standard.
Then we get a run in the B competition and gather a bit of momentum before blitzing a savage poor Laois in the semis. As someone already mentioned - a good club division 1 team wudve toppled them.. into the final and we leave a 6'2 man on the sideline who is as athletic as we have in the county, is experienced as has played in 2 club all Ireland finals and has great fielding ability - beggars belief.. Shane Annett - another 6'1 athletic player - on the bench.. crazy..
finally - stop this bulls**t about winning two ulster u20 titles. We absolutely stole the first one as Monaghan best player was killed in the lead up to it and this year the team was a dream team that Micky mouse cudve won ulster with. I know they were ambushed at minor level but that was never happening again.
So weigh it up
U20 two years ago - first test against a team - beaten
U20 this year - as above
Senior this year - test v Cavan in league - beat, test v Fermanagh in league - beaten - test v Armagh in championship- embarrassed - test v Meath in Chsmpionship - beaten..

Laverty may well seem to be the best we have at present - but the whole thing needs a shakeup to get the results required to get back competing again where it matters.. enjoyed the amount of games this year but not the quality on view by our own.