Do we have any illegally US based posters on here? :P
Deal for Irish illegal immigrants in US
Thousands of illegal Irish immigrants in the US are to be eligible for residency under a new deal hammered out in Washington.
By:Press Association
The Irish government said the proposed reforms, which apparently have the backing of the White House, would herald the end of the nightmare for the undocumented workers.
Under the plans, illegal immigrants will pay a fine, return to Ireland and then apply for the new proposed Z visa.
Irish Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern said he was optimistic the end was now in sight for the plight of 30,000 illegal Irish residents in the States.
"We have had false dawns before but from my contacts with those on Capitol Hill, it appears we have agreement between the various sides and support from the White House," he said.
"At last we have what I believe is a deal which will end the nightmare for thousands of illegal Irish and allow them to gain residency in the US.
"I expect the deal brokered today between the Senate and the White House may be voted on as early as next week."
After successfully applying for a Z visa, holders would have to wait between eight and 13 years for a decision on their permanent residency application, under the plans.
"This is wonderful news," Mr Ahern added.
They'll still be crying about the five grand though.
The illegal immigrants in this country who are getting deported and unable to work etc must be wondering what sort of country we live in when we fight for the rights of illegal immigrants in another country to get residency rights... ::)
Won't exactly be jumpin for joy just yet!!!!! :(
Its a 390 page document that will be trashed out next week, alot of changes will be made. Afterall the devil hides in the details...
$5000 I have no problem with because I believe this can be paid through a period of time.
However what I want to know is when do we get our travelling papers (if we do), this is the big question ?? We miss our families!! :'(
From my interpetation of what has been released so far on this matter, is that the 'Z' visa will not happen till all borders are secure and employers are equiped with required aparatus!! How long is this weeks, months , Years?????
If they are illegal they should be sent back home not being given a 'fine' to become legal, I don't care if they are Irish or Nigerian or Mexican if they are illegal they should be sent back home.
Stew,
thanks for those words of wisdom. The bad news for the illegals is that the bill as worked out may not have enough votes to pass. Also, with the election coming up anything that is seen as an "amnesty" on immigration can't be touched with a barge pole by those in tight races.
Heganboy I have my opinion, it obviously differs from your own and thats ok, I dont understand why you have to be so snippy about it.
I had two immediate family members that went to the states illegally and I disagreed with them and that was 20 years ago. all this marching around demanding rights for illegal immigrants pisses me off, why cant they apply for visas like everybody else instead of coming here the wrong way.
This $5,000 bribe is a disgrace, why dont they simply open up another avenue for these people to get in and offer them the opportunity to apply and get in legally without paying a token fine, I pay almost $40,000 a year in taxes myself and I see this deal as a kick in the ballix because the 5 grand that the illegal immigrants will pay as a one off taxation seems to be a sweet deal as they havent contributed anything to the government as regards taxation so the people that came in the right way get screwed and the illegal immigrants get off handy.
I dont mean to disrespect those from on here who are illegal but that is the way I feel.
How do you know they are not paying income tax? I lived illegally for eight years in the states and always paid income tax. Stew, how did you get your papers? Did you when it in a lottery?
QuoteThis $5,000 bribe is a disgrace, why dont they simply open up another avenue for these people to get in and offer them the opportunity to apply and get in legally without paying a token fine, I pay almost $40,000 a year in taxes myself and I see this deal as a kick in the ballix because the 5 grand that the illegal immigrants will pay as a one off taxation seems to be a sweet deal as they havent contributed anything to the government as regards taxation so the people that came in the right way get screwed and the illegal immigrants get off handy.
Stew,
You must have one hell of an income to pay $40,000 in taxes yourself or are you including the taxes you pay on groceries, clothing, gasoline/diesel, telephone/mobile bills, etc.?
Once again you're spewing the right-wing, xenophobic talking points. Does Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity all have your personal/work fax number??
You remind me of some Irish immigrants to the US. Once they've made it, financially, they forget from whence they came. In other words, "I've got mine and f**k everybody else".
You're a real pathetic excuse for an Irishman in my book. Shame on you.
Please spare us with your "I mean no disrespect". It's obvious to me what you're at, see above.
mrs. redandblack4ever
QuoteWe miss our families!! Cry
What is stopping you visiting them, Ireland or other EU countries will be happy to let you in. if you prefer the big bucks in the America, then it is your decision, not someone else's fault.
a few things:
Stew, I'm not being snippy- I think your previous post is the snippy one. The immigration legislation in the USA is very complex and far from being black and white.
mrs red and black- I know this is a contentious issue, but stew cant have forgotten where he's from if he's continuously on the GAAboard. Though the send em all home isn't exactly a rational approach.
More than 10million illegal immigrants pay income tax in the US as off 2006 that number is expected to be up by more than 50% for the last tax year. The US economy is very dependent on immigration both legal and illegal.
The issue of whether someone is here illegally and has been paying income tax for years and has a job should be allowed to stay following the fine is a key question. There are a number of other issues that are in the bill that John McCain is claiming as his own.
What do you count as coming in the right way?
also the issue of tax and "contributing anything to the government" is also economically questionable. Many illegals are forced to take very cut rates for their work, which even if they were to be taxed on those incomes would mean that their tax bills would be minimal, in may cases, had they been US citizens, they would actually be receiving subsidies from the government.
Still on the subject of immigration, none of the newspapers/ talk shows or fox seem to be interested in facts, so you have a pass until you do a bit more reading...
And for the record- I am legal and I do pay taxes too.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2007, 05:13:37 PM
QuoteWe miss our families!! Cry
What is stopping you visiting them, Ireland or other EU countries will be happy to let you in. if you prefer the big bucks in the America, then it is your decision, not someone else's fault.
With that post u have just showed what kind of a person you are....... A sc**bag!!!!
QuoteWith that post u have just showed what kind of a person you are....... A sc**bag!!!!
So much for freedom of speech. What would you call a person that doesn't visit their family?
Quote from: cullahmo on May 18, 2007, 03:38:51 PM
How do you know they are not paying income tax? I lived illegally for eight years in the states and always paid income tax. Stew, how did you get your papers? Did you when it in a lottery?
You paid your full debt of income tax every year on a fake social security number?
Quote from: new devil on May 18, 2007, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2007, 05:13:37 PM
QuoteWe miss our families!! Cry
What is stopping you visiting them, Ireland or other EU countries will be happy to let you in. if you prefer the big bucks in the America, then it is your decision, not someone else's fault.
With that post u have just showed what kind of a person you are....... A sc**bag!!!!
What Armaghniac said is true. If you want to take your chances living illegally in the states, fine, but its your choice. No one is holding a gun to your head stopping you going home to see your family.
So you are saying we should choose between our families or building a better life in the states.... and get over it??
Quote from: new devil on May 18, 2007, 07:47:45 PM
So you are saying we should choose between our families or building a better life in the states.... and get over it??
Try the legal route. If it doesn't work, tough. You work with the hand you're dealt. The states is not the only option on the table anyway, and Ireland is not exactly a third world backwater anymore.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on May 18, 2007, 04:34:22 PM
You remind me of some Irish immigrants to the US. Once they've made it, financially, they forget from whence they came. In other words, "I've got mine and f**k everybody else".
You're a real pathetic excuse for an Irishman in my book. Shame on you.
An appreciation for the rule of law makes one less of an Irishman, does it?
Are all of you still in Ireland willing to open up the borders to anyone and everyone who wants to make a life in a well-off European country like Ireland? Or would you prefer people to come in legally and in a controlled fashion that meets the needs of the country and allows the immigrants themselves to contribute to and receive the benefits that being a legal resident or citizen allows?
QuoteSo you are saying we should choose between our families or building a better life in the states.... and get over it??
Yes. When people went to the US illegally they did so deliberately and in the knowledge that going back and forth would be difficult. By choosing this lifestyle they have given the dollar more importance than their family.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2007, 08:00:04 PM
QuoteSo you are saying we should choose between our families or building a better life in the states.... and get over it??
Yes. When people went to the US illegally they did so deliberately and in the knowledge that going back and forth would be difficult. By choosing this lifestyle they have given the dollar more importance than their family.
I think you's have taken me up wrong here, the point i was making was that FLIRTY FLAN said she missed her family which AMAGHNIAC more or less told her was tuff!! which was a bit of a sc**bag thing to say! we are well aware that we are here of our own choice... that doesnt mean we dont miss our families!
I didn't say tough. I said go home and see your family. New devil called me a "sc**bag" for saying this.
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2007, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: cullahmo on May 18, 2007, 03:38:51 PM
How do you know they are not paying income tax? I lived illegally for eight years in the states and always paid income tax. Stew, how did you get your papers? Did you when it in a lottery?
You paid your full debt of income tax every year on a fake social security number?
I.m here nearly nine years(illegally), I pay my taxes every year LEGALLY. Its called a tax id number!!!
So whats your point J70?? ???
Quote from: Flirtyflan on May 18, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2007, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: cullahmo on May 18, 2007, 03:38:51 PM
How do you know they are not paying income tax? I lived illegally for eight years in the states and always paid income tax. Stew, how did you get your papers? Did you when it in a lottery?
You paid your full debt of income tax every year on a fake social security number?
I.m here nearly nine years(illegally), I pay my taxes every year LEGALLY. Its called a tax id number!!!
So whats your point J70?? ???
If you're paying the full amount of tax you owe, I would say you're an exception among illegal Irish (at least in my experience).
Does your tax ID number (presumably its the employer/business number you're talking about) serve for income tax, social security etc. purposes as well? Do you not need a social security number?
QuoteAn appreciation for the rule of law makes one less of an Irishman, does it?
Good try J70, but the "rule of law" is just another phony right wing talking point.
What about the rule of law in regard to fining employers who hire "illegals". How many big businesses, ie., meat packing, agri-businesses, have you seen being fined since the last immigration reform bill Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986? Not too many, that I know of.
Hell, even FEMA hired "illegals" to help out in the clean-up of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and, one other reminder GWB (I call him Chucklenuts), even tried to get the prevailing union wages cut for the union people in New Orleans after the debacle. He tried but even the brain dead Republicans in Congress realized that wouldn't fly.
What I always find amazing is this: whenever there's an economic downturn in the US, everyone starts to blame the immigrants. It's happened time and again. Do yourself a favor and read some American history about immigration. It might open your eyes a bit.
Put your blame where it belongs, with the corporations and companies that don't give a rats ass about anything but their bottom line: the not so anymore almighty American dollar.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on May 18, 2007, 09:57:36 PM
QuoteAn appreciation for the rule of law makes one less of an Irishman, does it?
Good try J70, but the "rule of law" is just another phony right wing talking point.
What about the rule of law in regard to fining employers who hire "illegals". How many big businesses, ie., meat packing, agri-businesses, have you seen being fined since the last immigration reform bill Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986? Not too many, that I know of.
Hell, even FEMA hired "illegals" to help out in the clean-up of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and, one other reminder GWB (I call him Chucklenuts), even tried to get the prevailing union wages cut for the union people in New Orleans after the debacle. He tried but even the brain dead Republicans in Congress realized that wouldn't fly.
What I always find amazing is this: whenever there's an economic downturn in the US, everyone starts to blame the immigrants. It's happened time and again. Do yourself a favor and read some American history about immigration. It might open your eyes a bit.
Put your blame where it belongs, with the corporations and companies that don't give a rats ass about anything but their bottom line: the not so anymore almighty American dollar.
Good try yourself, but you're not going to put words in my mouth.
I did not assign blame for anything on illegals, except that they are breaking the law if the are in the country illegally.
I don't dispute for a second that certain industries are profiting from using illegal immigrant labour, or that there is hypocrisy all across the board. You'll get no argument from me about going after these employers.
And spare me the patronizing "American history" and blaming illegals for "economic downturns" crap.
Whatever floats your boat, J70. I wasn't being patronizing, just pointing out a historical fact.
Quite honestly, this bill doesn't have snowball's chance in hell of passing both Houses of Congress.
It just might pass in the Senate, but it still has to go back to the House of Representatives for final approval and that'll never happen. Once again the braindead Republicans, like Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, James Sensenbrenner and my own DINO congresscritter Daniel Lipinski, IL-03, will vote nay..
This is the only issue that the Pukes can run on in 2008, it's their bread and butter. They can't run on the Iraq War or the "booming" economy anymore. The American public have finally woken up to that dung especially with gasoline prices heading for $4.00/gallon, so they'll drag this out as long as they can.
mrs. redandblack4ever
No one is being forced to stay in america and break the law of the country.I have no sympathy for those doing it and believe they are kidding themselves staying there illegally, no taxes, healthcare,drivers license or prospects for a high percentage of them,I know because i lived therelegally and seen the thing first hand.
Who said we were forced to stay here ???
and you haveing no sympathy for us....sure thats just ruined my day :(
exactly, no one is forcing you,i NEVER said there was.America is fine for a year if you are illegal,but any more than that unless you are making serious money(cash) is a cod and I am sure you would agree.I have a sister in that boat and she is there 10 years without a visit home once and no millions to show for it, what the point of such an exercise like that is beyond me.
What happens when she gets sick?
What happens when she is too old to work?
What happens if she has a child, who pays the bills then when her illegal boyfriends 800 dollars per week is a temporary job in construction?
Where is the pension?
As you say time to wake up and smell the coffee, the days of needing to go to america and never be heard of again are gone,my sister and her companions fool themselves that america is great, she does not get a penny in wages because its all tips and the owner of the restaurant takes a share of it for "expenses", i WAS THERE legally for a long time and have american citizenship since last year, i left it for other reasons but not because i was not making good money,I was and had a good time and brought home some nice stuff for myself.
America is great for a lot but not really the place to be thinking of growing old with the type of work illegals get,I stop my rant and hope you have luck in getting some sort of visa to allow your life in america to become easy.
Mannix, you bring up very good points in your post, especially about health care and pension.
As I said earlier, this bill doesn't stand a chance but count yourself lucky that you were able to get your US citizenship. At least if you ever decide to return, even for just a holiday, you can, no questions asked.
As for your sister and her friends, they better start thinking long and hard about their futures. If her boyfriend's job goes by the wayside; if he's in construction it just might, things are going to get very dicey for them both.
I know quite a few of the young Irish illegals here in Chicago and most of them are looking on this bill as being their last chance. If this bill doesn't pass, a whole lot of them will be returning home.
hello all, i,ve a few words of wisdom for the likes of j70 and armaghniac. for you small minded hicks that never had the balls to leave your little goldfish bowls and let go of mammys apron strings just to see a bit of the world, you might understand a little bit of what we go through. we make a living out here, a very good living, we've familys. i've a beautiful 4 mth old daughter, whos grandfather would kill to see her, but he's not well enough to travel. we work hard and pay for what we have, not like home living in a house owned by the bank!! we deserve this bill, we've done no harm, and if ye were not so small minded you'd be supporting the Irish people here, not letting us down! >:( >:(
Dear Mrs Redandblack, I have not now nor will I ever forget where I came from so you can put your mind at ease on that score, I am from Armagh and proud of it.
Now why is it every time you take a pop at me you bring politics into it, I know you like to feel that you and your wee hubby are uber chuckies and you are a die hard liberal, thats all great but here the thing, i have no time for illegal aliens walking about milking my own country dry so why would i think it is ok to do so here?
We chose to move to the States because of the fact that we had two daughters and we did not want them growing up in the north were they would have been treated a s second class citizens in their own country and thats why me moved, financially I knew we would take a hammering for about 5 years and we did but we went to give our kids a better shot at life, at no time did we ever ever forget our roots.
I have a good job here and I am blessed to have it and the wife is in the same boat, the funny thing is we did things the right way, we filled in all the proper paperwork and we got our visa's, we pay or taxes and contribute in many ways to the community in which we live and we cause no one any trouble. Thanks by the way for making me realize that I pay probably $50.000 in taxes what with groceries and petrol etc ???
Ask yourself why you got out of the six mrs redandblack, there is in all likelyhood a vast difference in our rationale just as there is in our politics, and by the way mrs redandblack, why is it every time you come after me you do so playing politics, and I have more to worry about than people's political motives, now away with you, there must be a football team that you can harass somewhere in Chitown, maybe you will even get yourself a bit of publicity out of it ;)
As for oakleaf, I have supported Irish people more than you will ever know and am happy to be in a position to do so but I dont condone illegal aliens in either Ireland or the US.
I had a sister who wouldnt come home for my wedding because she would not be able to get back in and I was disgusted by that decision so you can spare me all that talk about the sick grandfather, if you were that bothered you would take the child and go and see him especially if he is unfit to come see her. You are doing that to yourselves so dont expect any pity out of me, and if I was illegal and in that situation you find yourself in I would make a visitation to him happen but hey thats me.
Quote from: oakleaf stateside on May 20, 2007, 03:22:55 AM
hello all, i,ve a few words of wisdom for the likes of j70 and armaghniac. for you small minded hicks that never had the balls to leave your little goldfish bowls and let go of mammys apron strings just to see a bit of the world, you might understand a little bit of what we go through. we make a living out here, a very good living, we've familys. i've a beautiful 4 mth old daughter, whos grandfather would kill to see her, but he's not well enough to travel. we work hard and pay for what we have, not like home living in a house owned by the bank!! we deserve this bill, we've done no harm, and if ye were not so small minded you'd be supporting the Irish people here, not letting us down! >:( >:(
I don't oppose the bill, as I don't see much other alternative, but I don't really care about your complaints about not being able to take your daughter home to see her grandfather. You made that choice in your life, so you have to live with the consequences. I'm sorry that your father is not well enough to travel, but again, the consequence that he cannot see his grand-daughter is only an issue because you chose to build a life in a situation where that might be a problem. I have no doubt that you work hard, but so what? What makes you more worthy than the person who did everything legally, and maybe didn't get the opportunity to try out life in America? Should you get your visa before him? And if you really want to go down the road of who is letting who down among the Irish in America, I'm hard-pushed to see how those who came out and did everything according to the law are letting down those who broke the law and snuck in or overstayed their visas. I don't owe you anything just because you're Irish.
Having sought to alleviate the handicaps suffered by our illegals in America, will the Irish Government now accord the same priveliges to people classed as illegal immigrants in our own Country
Quote from: Pangurban on May 20, 2007, 08:52:13 PM
Having sought to alleviate the handicaps suffered by our illegals in America, will the Irish Government now accord the same priveliges to people classed as illegal immigrants in our own Country
You would think they would have to but you never know .
Quotehello all, i,ve a few words of wisdom for the likes of j70 and armaghniac. for you small minded hicks that never had the balls to leave your little goldfish bowls and let go of mammys apron strings just to see a bit of the world
Who are you calling small minded Hick. I've visited a dozen countries in the last couple of years, including the US, how many have you been in? Let me guess, one..
Quotewe work hard and pay for what we have, not like home living in a house owned by the bank!!
Me too. Why not work hard somewhere where your Dad can see his Granddaughter?
Quoteand if ye were not so small minded you'd be supporting the Irish people here, not letting us down!
Why support law breakers just because they are Irish?
Dear Stew (ha how patronising can you get on a forum writing "Dear".)
Congratulations on getting into the states "legally" how long ago did you fill out that paperwork? Did you get in through a lotto? Or did you have to "know somebody"?
Legally getting in is not an easy thing to do. Its not a 'try your luck scenario'. What would you have done if your application had been turned down? Put yourself in those shoes and see what your answer might be.
Your opinion on this is obviously tainted by the actions and choices of your family members.
I have spent a little time in America and I am one of the lucky ones - I am able to get a visa through my Fiancee out there, but I don't for a second have a chip on my shoulder about everyone else. I am able to come home and see my family - I can't imagine not being able to do that and your lack of sympathy about this is a disgrace. Would you give up your entire life in America (one that has taken you a long time to build up) to come home and see a family member?
The dollar goes a long way in America. $20000 behind you has you in a comfortable position. Change that into pounds or euros and what have you got, how far will it get you, how much will you be taxed on it, screwed into the ground by it?
Ireland as a whole is a joke. The economy is crucifying everyone. Yes town and country are driving around in big cras, living in a big house, two holidays a year and all the luxuries that the media tells us we need to have - but the bank owns it all!!!!
What the hell is wrong with wanting a better life for yourself, for your family, your children? What is wrong for trying to escape Ireland anyway you can and now seeking recognition for your contributions and life in America?
Shame on you all for not supporting your fellow Irish men and women in America.
The Iceman
My Ma was born in Armagh and came over here (U.S.) when she was only 18. She had to have 3 teeth removed and wait another 5 years before all the LEGAL paperwork went through before she was allowed citizenship. I was a citizen 7 months before she was granted citizenship. My mother went through the whole dog and pony show to become a U.S. citizen. So why should someone else who decides I'LL stay here for a few years get citizenship because they did not to go through the proper channels, deserve U.S. citizenship?
I served 3 year in the US Army to defend the US constitution and freedoms of all American Citizens both near and wide and I'LL be damned if that helps ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS - Irish, Mexican, Polish or wherever they come from to take advantage of pressure from the ACLU, immigrant right lawyers or kind hearted citizens. The right to become a US citizen from an immigrant has to be earned the Legal way.
This might blow Stew (republican) away but I am a Democrat who feels Immigration is a privelage and not a concession. I now hold a dual citizenship for the US and Ireland, but again I went through the proper channels to attain this honor. I can not fathom how Irish citizens would just sit back and allow 20 million plus Illegal Aliens to become Irish citizens per year just because they were living there and wanted to stay there.
I guess my point is citizenship has its privilage but ONLY when attained properly.
Besides, half of my friends who were born here in the US would love to move to Ireland to take advatage of the Celtic Tiger but learned how hard it would be to become legal immigrants in Ireland have passed on the thought because of all the rules the Irish government imposses on immigrants.
Remeber the grass always looks greener on the other side.
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
I served 3 year in the US Army to defend the US constitution and freedoms of all American Citizens both near and wide
Was the US invaded – who won?
Quote from: oakleaf stateside on May 20, 2007, 03:22:55 AM
hello all, i,ve a few words of wisdom for the likes of j70 and armaghniac. for you small minded hicks that never had the balls to leave your little goldfish bowls and let go of mammys apron strings just to see a bit of the world, you might understand a little bit of what we go through. we make a living out here, a very good living, we've familys. i've a beautiful 4 mth old daughter, whos grandfather would kill to see her, but he's not well enough to travel. we work hard and pay for what we have, not like home living in a house owned by the bank!! we deserve this bill, we've done no harm, and if ye were not so small minded you'd be supporting the Irish people here, not letting us down! >:( >:(
Well i have words of wisdom for u yankee wannabe.. So what if some of are homes are owned by the bank, we work hard aswell it's not as if the bank doesn't want the money back . We also have familys so were hardly going to jump on the next plane to another country where we'd b living iillegal and watching our backs the whole time. If you want us irish at home to support you don't try and make little of us hard working people at home.
Quoteif ye were not so small minded you'd be supporting the Irish people here, not letting us down!
And what support are you giving Ireland by paying your taxes in a foreign country?
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
My Ma was born in Armagh and came over here (U.S.) when she was only 18. She had to have 3 teeth removed and wait another 5 years before all the LEGAL paperwork went through before she was allowed citizenship. I was a citizen 7 months before she was granted citizenship. My mother went through the whole dog and pony show to become a U.S. citizen. So why should someone else who decides I'LL stay here for a few years get citizenship because they did not to go through the proper channels, deserve U.S. citizenship?
I served 3 year in the US Army to defend the US constitution and freedoms of all American Citizens both near and wide and I'LL be damned if that helps ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS - Irish, Mexican, Polish or wherever they come from to take advantage of pressure from the ACLU, immigrant right lawyers or kind hearted citizens. The right to become a US citizen from an immigrant has to be earned the Legal way.
This might blow Stew (republican) away but I am a Democrat who feels Immigration is a privelage and not a concession. I now hold a dual citizenship for the US and Ireland, but again I went through the proper channels to attain this honor. I can not fathom how Irish citizens would just sit back and allow 20 million plus Illegal Aliens to become Irish citizens per year just because they were living there and wanted to stay there.
I guess my point is citizenship has its privilage but ONLY when attained properly.
Besides, half of my friends who were born here in the US would love to move to Ireland to take advatage of the Celtic Tiger but learned how hard it would be to become legal immigrants in Ireland have passed on the thought because of all the rules the Irish government imposses on immigrants.
Remeber the grass always looks greener on the other side.
The Celtic Tiger????? Wise the bap big son. There is no Celtic Tiger. The banks own everything!
Tell your friends to sell their 4 bedroom, 1.5 bathroom, basement, swimming pool and house with a garage for $400,000. Give up their life in America and come to Ireland.
Tell them to get it changed into Euros and see what kind of house they can get for their money.
The grass is greener on the other side. Try living in Ireland and struggling to make ends meet and then tell us all its such a great place to live. Ireland is the best place in the world - but the economy is a load of shite and driving us all into too much dept.
Things have changed a lot since your "ma" as you call her got legally into America.
I know your type lad - Irish roots - guaranteed to have a tattoo with something Irish on it, gauranteed to have an Irish flag on your car, gets totally smashed on St Patrick's day and think because you are Irish you have to pick a fight at the weekends - just to uphold the Irish reputation. You are ashamed you don't have ginger hair and freckles and that your ma didn't call you something more Irish like Seamus. You listen to Irish punk rock which nobody in Ireland listens to. You drink Jameson. You drink bad tasting harp and don't understand that you need to let a pint of Guinness to settle before you drink it. You call bacon "rashers" cause you think its cool. You sing Irish songs but don't know why. You wanted to be in the IRA when you were growing up.
Don't even waste my time
Don't even waste our time with your grass is greener on the other side rhetoric. Hu ha
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
My Ma was born in Armagh and came over here (U.S.) when she was only 18. She had to have 3 teeth removed and wait another 5 years before all the LEGAL paperwork went through before she was allowed citizenship.
What had getting teeth removed to do with anything?
Whatever the shortcomings of the Irish economy, it is hardly a "load of shite". There is no economy more based on credit than the US, and payback time is coming. You better convert your dollars into Euro now, it will be worth much less in the future.
On this thread you have people who have abandoned Ireland and who don't even visit their families, but who expect Ireland to support them. People who think America is a great place, but who treat its laws with contempt and abuse those of Irish descent who immigrated legally. And if you comment on this these charming folk call you a "sc**bag" or "small minded hick".
Quote from: The Iceman on May 21, 2007, 09:24:09 AM
Dear Stew (ha how patronising can you get on a forum writing "Dear".)
Congratulations on getting into the states "legally" how long ago did you fill out that paperwork? Did you get in through a lotto? Or did you have to "know somebody"?
Legally getting in is not an easy thing to do. Its not a 'try your luck scenario'. What would you have done if your application had been turned down? Put yourself in those shoes and see what your answer might be.
Your opinion on this is obviously tainted by the actions and choices of your family members.
I have spent a little time in America and I am one of the lucky ones - I am able to get a visa through my Fiancee out there, but I don't for a second have a chip on my shoulder about everyone else. I am able to come home and see my family - I can't imagine not being able to do that and your lack of sympathy about this is a disgrace. Would you give up your entire life in America (one that has taken you a long time to build up) to come home and see a family member?
The dollar goes a long way in America. $20000 behind you has you in a comfortable position. Change that into pounds or euros and what have you got, how far will it get you, how much will you be taxed on it, screwed into the ground by it?
Ireland as a whole is a joke. The economy is crucifying everyone. Yes town and country are driving around in big cras, living in a big house, two holidays a year and all the luxuries that the media tells us we need to have - but the bank owns it all!!!!
What the hell is wrong with wanting a better life for yourself, for your family, your children? What is wrong for trying to escape Ireland anyway you can and now seeking recognition for your contributions and life in America?
Shame on you all for not supporting your fellow Irish men and women in America.
The Iceman
Dear Iceman, I meant it to be patronizing, condescending and dowqnright annoying to be honest, I see it worked.
I filled out the paperwork 11 years ago. I applied like everyone else and I knew nobody, basically i did the right thing and applied legally and got in.
If I had have been turned down I would have kept my business and lived in the north because i was not going to go to the states illegally.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about illegals being in the states, I just think it is wrong, just as I believe it is detremental to my own Country. Tell me this iceman, who is stopping these people from going home to see their loved one's???? it is their own selfishness that stops them , they put themselves in that position and nobody else is to blame so why should I give a damn about some ballix that hasnt got the gumption to go home whjen a family member needs them?????
Ireland is far from a joke, if you think that you know nothing about economics and the fact is the economy has been predicted to go into recession/depression for quite a few years now and the crash still has not happened.
There is nothing wrong with looking for a better life for your family and yourself, but quit whinging when daddy gets sick and poor you wont take the new grandchild to see him?? that to me is selfish. As for escaping Ireland, if you hate it that much why not move to somewhere in the EU? believe it or not you can do that legally with no problems at all. There is something however wrong with entering a Country illegally, a fact you continue to ignore you lawbreaker you. :)
As for me being ashamed of myself for not helping Irish people in America, I have done so and I will continue to do so but I really dont give a fiddlers fart where people are from if I can help them i will help them and I owe the irish people in America feck all, what have they done for me??????
I am obliged to pay my taxes and rear my family,I am doing that within the boundaries of the law, shame you cannot say the same.
Quote from: cavan4ever on May 21, 2007, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
My Ma was born in Armagh and came over here (U.S.) when she was only 18. She had to have 3 teeth removed and wait another 5 years before all the LEGAL paperwork went through before she was allowed citizenship.
What had getting teeth removed to do with anything?
At that time the immigration rules required people with certain dental fillings to have the fillings removed because of potential health risks associated with the materials...not a popular practice.
Quote from: The Iceman on May 21, 2007, 11:44:49 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
My Ma was born in Armagh and came over here (U.S.) when she was only 18. She had to have 3 teeth removed and wait another 5 years before all the LEGAL paperwork went through before she was allowed citizenship. I was a citizen 7 months before she was granted citizenship. My mother went through the whole dog and pony show to become a U.S. citizen. So why should someone else who decides I'LL stay here for a few years get citizenship because they did not to go through the proper channels, deserve U.S. citizenship?
I served 3 year in the US Army to defend the US constitution and freedoms of all American Citizens both near and wide and I'LL be damned if that helps ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS - Irish, Mexican, Polish or wherever they come from to take advantage of pressure from the ACLU, immigrant right lawyers or kind hearted citizens. The right to become a US citizen from an immigrant has to be earned the Legal way.
This might blow Stew (republican) away but I am a Democrat who feels Immigration is a privelage and not a concession. I now hold a dual citizenship for the US and Ireland, but again I went through the proper channels to attain this honor. I can not fathom how Irish citizens would just sit back and allow 20 million plus Illegal Aliens to become Irish citizens per year just because they were living there and wanted to stay there.
I guess my point is citizenship has its privilage but ONLY when attained properly.
Besides, half of my friends who were born here in the US would love to move to Ireland to take advatage of the Celtic Tiger but learned how hard it would be to become legal immigrants in Ireland have passed on the thought because of all the rules the Irish government imposses on immigrants.
Remeber the grass always looks greener on the other side.
The Celtic Tiger????? Wise the bap big son. There is no Celtic Tiger. The banks own everything!
Tell your friends to sell their 4 bedroom, 1.5 bathroom, basement, swimming pool and house with a garage for $400,000. Give up their life in America and come to Ireland.
Tell them to get it changed into Euros and see what kind of house they can get for their money.
The grass is greener on the other side. Try living in Ireland and struggling to make ends meet and then tell us all its such a great place to live. Ireland is the best place in the world - but the economy is a load of shite and driving us all into too much dept.
Things have changed a lot since your "ma" as you call her got legally into America.
I know your type lad - Irish roots - guaranteed to have a tattoo with something Irish on it, gauranteed to have an Irish flag on your car, gets totally smashed on St Patrick's day and think because you are Irish you have to pick a fight at the weekends - just to uphold the Irish reputation. You are ashamed you don't have ginger hair and freckles and that your ma didn't call you something more Irish like Seamus. You listen to Irish punk rock which nobody in Ireland listens to. You drink Jameson. You drink bad tasting harp and don't understand that you need to let a pint of Guinness to settle before you drink it. You call bacon "rashers" cause you think its cool. You sing Irish songs but don't know why. You wanted to be in the IRA when you were growing up.
Don't even waste my time
Don't even waste our time with your grass is greener on the other side rhetoric. Hu ha
You are right sir, I must go and sweep up all my gold goins that are littering my front yard. Seeing how my payments to the mortgage company has to be a donation since everyone here owns their own house. Making ends meet is a constant struggle for the majority of the world.
Tatoo yes , nothing on the car, St Patricks day is spent with family and friends, too tough to fight, look fabulous with dark hair and freckles, my name is fantastic and unique-not irish/gaelic, hate punk rock( love willie, waylon and the boys), prefer seagrams whiskey,
drink harp because I enjoy the taste (worked as a bartender so yes I know a pint has to sit), I call bacon- bacon because thats what it is, I know plenty of irish songs but one night at kareokee (sp) I made a mess of margaritaville and swore never to put anyone else through that torture again, NEVER wanted to be in the IRA lost three relatives to the troubles.
All my rambling in my first post was to simply state if you are looking for citizenship go through the proper procedures and I like most citizens will have no problem, remember illegal is still illegal.
Quote from: Donagh on May 21, 2007, 10:11:35 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on May 21, 2007, 09:48:58 AM
I served 3 year in the US Army to defend the US constitution and freedoms of all American Citizens both near and wide
Was the US invaded – who won?
It was those damn Canandians, had to shoot a nerf ball at them to keep their love of bacon and maple syrup up inthe great white north.
Quote from: stew on May 21, 2007, 04:35:57 PM
Dear Iceman, I meant it to be patronizing, condescending and dowqnright annoying to be honest, I see it worked.
I filled out the paperwork 11 years ago. I applied like everyone else and I knew nobody, basically i did the right thing and applied legally and got in.
If I had have been turned down I would have kept my business and lived in the north because i was not going to go to the states illegally.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about illegals being in the states, I just think it is wrong, just as I believe it is detremental to my own Country. Tell me this iceman, who is stopping these people from going home to see their loved one's???? it is their own selfishness that stops them , they put themselves in that position and nobody else is to blame so why should I give a damn about some ballix that hasnt got the gumption to go home whjen a family member needs them?????
Ireland is far from a joke, if you think that you know nothing about economics and the fact is the economy has been predicted to go into recession/depression for quite a few years now and the crash still has not happened.
There is nothing wrong with looking for a better life for your family and yourself, but quit whinging when daddy gets sick and poor you wont take the new grandchild to see him?? that to me is selfish. As for escaping Ireland, if you hate it that much why not move to somewhere in the EU? believe it or not you can do that legally with no problems at all. There is something however wrong with entering a Country illegally, a fact you continue to ignore you lawbreaker you. :)
As for me being ashamed of myself for not helping Irish people in America, I have done so and I will continue to do so but I really dont give a fiddlers fart where people are from if I can help them i will help them and I owe the irish people in America feck all, what have they done for me??????
I am obliged to pay my taxes and rear my family,I am doing that within the boundaries of the law, shame you cannot say the same.
I am 100% legal. I currently hold a K1 Finace visa that took over 6 months to get. I will convert to full citizenship after a lot of paperwork and a lot more waiting once we are marired.
I am only 28 - hopefully when I am your age I will be able to say I have reared my family, paid my taxes and stayed within the boundaries of the law.
I unlike you however do not have a chip on my shoulder about the illegals.
The Irish are renowned the world over for looking after their own - thank God you are not our typical representative abroad.
Europe is not an option for most people on here due to the language barriers.
And your reference about selling your business says it all. Obviously you had a bit of money behind you and good luck to you - but there are a lot of guys who don't and didn't have that privilege when going to America.
Chosing not to give up everything you have built up over the past 10 years to come home to see a sick relative is not being selfish. Its a sacrafice. You think the illegals don't want to visit home? Its not balck and white lad and you need to stop and consider that for a second.
Cordialement,
The Iceman
without getting into the rights and wrongs of this debate i must comment on one point
''The Irish are renowned the world over for looking after their own - thank God you are not our typical representative abroad.''
my experience wouldnt quite be that rosy. i found that wherever you find irish you will often find that they are ones ripping off their own.
Quote from: The Iceman on May 21, 2007, 08:38:43 PM
Quote from: stew on May 21, 2007, 04:35:57 PM
Dear Iceman, I meant it to be patronizing, condescending and dowqnright annoying to be honest, I see it worked.
I filled out the paperwork 11 years ago. I applied like everyone else and I knew nobody, basically i did the right thing and applied legally and got in.
If I had have been turned down I would have kept my business and lived in the north because i was not going to go to the states illegally.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about illegals being in the states, I just think it is wrong, just as I believe it is detremental to my own Country. Tell me this iceman, who is stopping these people from going home to see their loved one's???? it is their own selfishness that stops them , they put themselves in that position and nobody else is to blame so why should I give a damn about some ballix that hasnt got the gumption to go home whjen a family member needs them?????
Ireland is far from a joke, if you think that you know nothing about economics and the fact is the economy has been predicted to go into recession/depression for quite a few years now and the crash still has not happened.
There is nothing wrong with looking for a better life for your family and yourself, but quit whinging when daddy gets sick and poor you wont take the new grandchild to see him?? that to me is selfish. As for escaping Ireland, if you hate it that much why not move to somewhere in the EU? believe it or not you can do that legally with no problems at all. There is something however wrong with entering a Country illegally, a fact you continue to ignore you lawbreaker you. :)
As for me being ashamed of myself for not helping Irish people in America, I have done so and I will continue to do so but I really dont give a fiddlers fart where people are from if I can help them i will help them and I owe the irish people in America feck all, what have they done for me??????
I am obliged to pay my taxes and rear my family,I am doing that within the boundaries of the law, shame you cannot say the same.
I am 100% legal. I currently hold a K1 Finace visa that took over 6 months to get. I will convert to full citizenship after a lot of paperwork and a lot more waiting once we are marired.
I am only 28 - hopefully when I am your age I will be able to say I have reared my family, paid my taxes and stayed within the boundaries of the law.
I unlike you however do not have a chip on my shoulder about the illegals.
The Irish are renowned the world over for looking after their own - thank God you are not our typical representative abroad.
Europe is not an option for most people on here due to the language barriers.
And your reference about selling your business says it all. Obviously you had a bit of money behind you and good luck to you - but there are a lot of guys who don't and didn't have that privilege when going to America.
Chosing not to give up everything you have built up over the past 10 years to come home to see a sick relative is not being selfish. Its a sacrafice. You think the illegals don't want to visit home? Its not balck and white lad and you need to stop and consider that for a second.
Cordialement,
The Iceman
So you are legal iceman, whoopdeedoo.
You seem to think I have a chip on my shoulder about illegal people being in America, i don't I just dont think they should be here thats all, it is just my opinion but I dont disrespect them, in fact I play football with them every week and even play golf with one boyo from ballymena once a week.
As for me not be a typical representative abroad, well you dont know me so how do you know what I am like and from what i have seen from the irish over here at times I am delighted not be be like them, I took one of your so called representatives in and paid for a place for him to stay for two months, when that was done i gave him a job in my business and paid him well and vouched for him on a loan, he promptly robbed me of $3,000 and I caught him because it was a cash business and I had cameras installed, this representative had now committed a felony and even then I didnt turn him in because my conscience would not let me, instead I called his home and his parents sent me the $4600 he owed me and he fecked off in case I called the peelers, i didnt.
I hooked up a brother in Law of a well known poster on here and I got his girlfriend a job with the company I work for, he was illegal but I helped him and his family out.
Most recently we have a family friend from Cork who lives in Green Bay until Tomorrow, he has been here legally for 20 years, he was a social worker until two years ago when he took a stroke and was no longer able to do that role, I got him a job with the company I work for but he couldnt hack that either due to health concerns so I bought him food, filled his tank up and when me and the missus went to Mexico we had other people takle care of him until we got back, one last thing, he is gay and i am a tad homophobic but I took care of this man because he was in need so i dont need some cub telling me that i dont do my bit for 'my own' because I help people out when i can.
The language barrier excuse is pathetic, that is a cop out. God forbid you learn a different language.
I did have a bit of money behind me but I earned it, every penny of it, I nearly went under at one point but we got through that and the business turned around and we did fantastically well but I have no illusions of grandeur, I know where I came from and also know that I am more than willing to halp anyone that needs it if I am in a position to do so. I am a Christian and I should help others, I do however retain the right to my opinion and it is my opinion that illegal immigrants should be sent back from where they came from.
As for someone not going home because they could not get back in being a sacrifice that is absolute bollocks, it is inward focus and selfishness, no feckin way i would stop my father from seeing his grandchild if he was unable to travel to see her. I have had the excuses happen to me personally and they stink, I said so and that cost me in that I had a sibling not speak to me for two years but at lest she knew where I stood.
Hows this for black and white, breaking the law is wrong and all the excuses in the world wont change that fact!
Well I returned here a year ago after 12 years in Florida. I was legal (Morrison Visa) and 5 years ago I became a US citizen.I took out citizenship to make it easier to get in and out of the US and also to help my wife get her green card.Thankfully I could keep my Irish passport as well as I wouldn't have done it otherwise.I met a lot of illegal Irish out there and I was always thankful that I wasn't one myself.All that watching out over your shoulder, hassle (particularly since 9-11) with driving licences, travel within the US never mind going back to the old sod etc etc.I admired the illegals, how they managed to work, set up business, raise families, all the time without a social security number because i would never have been able to do it!At the same time, that was the chance that a lot of illegals took when going over to the US.Also irish people here cannot complain about illegals in this country and then demand legality for illegals in the US.I remember when my wife was applying for the conditional visa, before her green card, the lawyer telling us that the laws regarding citizenship were crafted years ago by irish-american judges and politicians especially to help the Irish.So being irish has its advantages. We decided to raise our children here and we got out of the US just in time as the housing market collapsed in Florida and the dollar collapsed against the Euro. I would hate to be anyone Irish considering a move home from the US at the moment as you would lose 35c at least out of every dollar at least.Add to that the cost of housing here and then you can see why a lot of Irish (illegal and legal) cannot move home at the moment.I was extremely lucky in my timing and Thank God the move has worked out for us.Ireland is IMHO the best place to raise the 3 boys I have and the old children's allowance is great too ;) I wish all legal and illegal Irish the best of luck living abroad, it's not easy being away from home!!!!
Fair play to you Stew if you did all that for the lad and by the way, i agree 100% with you on this!
Its just unfortunate that the Irish have to be caught up in this with the Latinos that are flooding across
the border here on the left coast, they have us poor bastards broke paying for their Health care and doing
there damnedest in helping keep wages down for the rest of us that are trying to toe the line, thats
just the tip of the ice berg. Im sick of hearing from the ACLU and the likes about rights this and rights that,
As far as im concerned they don't have any rights, they're not entitled to any rights, they are here ILLEGALLY, end of.
QuoteAs far as im concerned they don't have any rights, they're not entitled to any rights, they are here ILLEGALLY, end of.
No doubt you mean Oakleaf stateside and New Devil here, or are you only prejudiced against Latinos?
Its hard not to be if you saw what goes on here, as i said its unfortunate that the Irish are shoulder to
shoulder with these free loaders for citizenship as it does there cause no favours in a lot of minds.
The number of times I've heard from Irish people over here (the US) say "I was never a racist until I came here..." or "I'm not a racist but..." cracks me up. There are free loaders of every creed colour shape and size, and for every one of them there's a hard working one to match.
Irish bars in New York- half with illegal staff, and who do they employ to do the heavy lifting, the coking, the cleaning, and the bar prep (from 4am to 10am) Mexicans. There are plenty of Latinos (and Latinas) working their asses off here for feck all money, and still managing to send home a few quid (dollars /pesos). They would happily do it legally and pay the taxes so as not to have to keep looking over their shoulders, and they are contributing to the US economy (which one poster enlisted to protect).
As I said earlier, legal residence in the US is not black and white (or yellow or brown)
There are also people who are here legally, but are only entitled to residency, and not legally allowed to work (even charity work) -how that is helping the US economy is beyond me. The immigration legislation here needs sorted, its a mess. That is why I have sympathy for people working illegally, especially those that are paying taxes, and therefore they should have rights, why else would you pay taxes. They end up paying the salary of those people that are seeking to send them out of the country...
Weird, but thats the good old US of A for you.
QuoteIt was those damn Canandians, had to shoot a nerf ball at them to keep their love of bacon and maple syrup up inthe great white north.
Hey - leave us out of it :D :D :D :D :D
To me there is no difference in people regardless of their nationality, illegal aliens are not better because they are Irish rather than hispanic and vice versa. If a so called latino is a sc**bag he is a sc**bag because of who he is and because of his actions, the same applies to the Irish, german and Nigerians.