The IRISH RUGBY thread

[David McKeown]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

Definitely not Carty.

There's a few positions Ireland need to improve upon.

I think there should be a change to the law about players being allowed to play for Ireland only if they play here.

I think we need that experience of playing in different leagues across the world. If Leinster are producing a conveyor belt of talent in one area and only have 1 first team player and 2 replacements anything being that needs to be allowed to develop in another league.

I was arguing about this yesterday. Is the pay discrepancies between here and France as much as they were a few years back when this rule was introduced?

[Solo_run]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

Definitely not Carty.

There's a few positions Ireland need to improve upon.

I think there should be a change to the law about players being allowed to play for Ireland only if they play here.

I think we need that experience of playing in different leagues across the world. If Leinster are producing a conveyor belt of talent in one area and only have 1 first team player and 2 replacements anything being that needs to be allowed to develop in another league.

I was arguing about this yesterday. Is the pay discrepancies between here and France as much as they were a few years back when this rule was introduced?

I think the past discrepancies are huge and the way club rugby is run in France has destroyed the international teams. I think Toulon are owned by a billionaire.

Ireland should show players to go but they should also only allow a set amount of players to leave from each province - but not hinder their chances to play for Ireland

[Nanderson]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

Definitely not Carty.

There's a few positions Ireland need to improve upon.

I think there should be a change to the law about players being allowed to play for Ireland only if they play here.

I think we need that experience of playing in different leagues across the world. If Leinster are producing a conveyor belt of talent in one area and only have 1 first team player and 2 replacements anything being that needs to be allowed to develop in another league.

I was arguing about this yesterday. Is the pay discrepancies between here and France as much as they were a few years back when this rule was introduced?

I think the past discrepancies are huge and the way club rugby is run in France has destroyed the international teams. I think Toulon are owned by a billionaire.

Ireland should show players to go but they should also only allow a set amount of players to leave from each province - but not hinder their chances to play for Ireland

Absolutely agree with allowing players to go and experience different leagues and nationalities. Look at O'Gara, he jumped at the chance of experiencing something new as a coach and it should be something that Ireland should be encouraging. On ROG it would be good to see him involved with the Irish setup in years to come. Hes won a top 14 league and a super rugby championship as a coach and is now head coach in the top 14.   

[Sportacus]

Hopefully a new number 9 will be more interested in quick ball than those stupid box kicks

[Scoring Zone]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

If there is a serious push on this WC Quarter Final thing, and the WC is the be all and end all then Healy, O'Mahony, Sexton, Kearney and Earls have to be culled and serious questions over Stander, Murray, Klyne, Murphy and blood brand new players with an effective game plan - this will probably lead to some very hard to watch years but it is either continue with what has been done before and peak mid-WC Cycle or get to a semi final - I don't think this will happen but I do think that the squad is in decline after 4-5 brilliant years (excluding 2015 WC) and a few players that you only get every 3 or 4 generations, BO'D, P'OC, J Sexton, Conor Murray etc. The barrel is dry and it will be tough watching for a while but it was good while it lasted

[seafoid]

I think it's a process.
Things they did well :
-playing and beating Southern Hemisphere beforehand (unimaginable 10-15 years ago )
- squad management in the pool stage

What didn't work
- Team didn't peak for the tournament
- Lack of flexibility against Japan

I think they'll learn a lot from this and you never know, they might get a handy quarterfinal next time

[JPGJOHNNYG]

I think it's a process.
Things they did well :
-playing and beating Southern Hemisphere beforehand (unimaginable 10-15 years ago )
- squad management in the pool stage

What didn't work
- Team didn't peak for the tournament
- Lack of flexibility against Japan

I think they'll learn a lot from this and you never know, they might get a handy quarterfinal next time

They had handy QF draws in 2011 and 2015 and choked. Its seems to be mental thing too. Wales who over the last 20  yrs havent been much better have a far superior record in world cups AND 6 nations

[seafoid]

I think it's a process.
Things they did well :
-playing and beating Southern Hemisphere beforehand (unimaginable 10-15 years ago )
- squad management in the pool stage

What didn't work
- Team didn't peak for the tournament
- Lack of flexibility against Japan

I think they'll learn a lot from this and you never know, they might get a handy quarterfinal next time

They had handy QF draws in 2011 and 2015 and choked. Its seems to be mental thing too. Wales who over the last 20  yrs havent been much better have a far superior record in world cups AND 6 nations

Wales are in a different league. They have qualified for 3 semi finals vs our 0. They have more Grand Slams in recent history. They are like say Meath whereas we would be Kildare.
Getting Ireland to where it is now took  lot of work but more work needs to be done to get it past the quarter final stage. That also means throwing the ball around a bit.

[Nanderson]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

I'm sure NZ weren't too sure about Barrett as a world class 10 as he was always in and out of the team in his first few years depending on other players forms and carter still bossing it. Its amazing what a run of games could do for a player. Remember that sexton had a rough enough start to his Ireland career as the people still thought that O'Gara was the man but look how Johnny changed the team for the better once he got a continued run of games

[Solo_run]

Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.

I'm sure NZ weren't too sure about Barrett as a world class 10 as he was always in and out of the team in his first few years depending on other players forms and carter still bossing it. Its amazing what a run of games could do for a player. Remember that sexton had a rough enough start to his Ireland career as the people still thought that O'Gara was the man but look how Johnny changed the team for the better once he got a continued run of games

I would hope over the next 4 years the provinces develop 3/4 fly half's that are capable.

[whitegoodman]

There is one over in London that would suffice

[fearsiuil]

We'll always have Chicargo.

[Milltown Row2]

There is one over in London that would suffice

Yep and a moment of professionalism would have secured his place, but getting involved in situations has cost him dearly

[screenexile]

Kimmage getting his claws stuck into Heaslip... will be interesting how that ends up!!!

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/10/20/ireland-rugby-world-cup-post-mortem-does-andy-farrell-go/

Ireland Rugby World Cup post-mortem: where does Andy Farrell go from here?

Tom Cary, in tokyo
20 OCTOBER 2019 • 12:41PM


"There was no fairytale ending for Joe Schmidt following Ireland's loss to New Zealand on Saturday, it was as close to sporting horror as you can get.

For all the Six Nations titles, the series win in Australia, those two historic victories over the All Blacks, Schmidt's teams did no better than any other Ireland team when it came to the World Cup. That is now seven quarter-final defeats out of seven for the men in green. An unwanted 100 per cent record.

Where does Andy Farrell go from here, then, to ensure his Ireland side can progress further than the last eight when the tournament arrives once again in 2023? Tom Cary offers four solutions.

1. Out with the deadwood

Farrell has some big calls to make player-wise with some of his biggest names nearing the end of the road. So much was made of Schmidt's decision to stick with his tried-and-trusted players for the New Zealand game. The ones who had served him so well in breaking the All Blacks hoodoo and winning all those Six Nations titles. But it was painful to watch them on Saturday; toothless, one-dimensional, powerless to do anything when the All Blacks started at 100mph.

Rory Best has retired so that decision at least has been made for Farrell. And to be honest, the only reason the 37 year-old was still playing was because there were no real alternatives. Niall Scannell and Sean Cronin have had their chances but neither has made a compelling case. Maybe this is a chance to promote an exciting young talent such as Leinster's 21 year-old hooker Ronan Kelleher?

As for the rest of the old guard - Rob Kearney, Conor Murray, Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, Cian Healy, Keith Earls - will Farrell swing the axe in a bid to make a fresh start? It would be a huge statement. The biggest decision, of course, surrounds Sexton. The 34 year-old, who still has two years left on his central contract, said on the eve of the All Blacks game that he felt he still had a few more years left in him. "After the World Cup you guys [the media] will probably turn on us, start calling for our heads and saying we're too old. Saying the next batch have to come through. I can see it already. But, I've no doubt we've got a few years left."

There is no doubt he remains Ireland's best fly-half. But will he start in 2023? No. So is it time to build a new team around someone else? Big decision.


2. Evolve Ireland's game

The difference between New Zealand and Ireland in November 2018 and New Zealand and Ireland in October 2019 was startling. After losing in Dublin, Steve Hansen was bold enough to rip it up and start again. When Damian McKenzie got injured, he moved Barrett, the best fly-half in the world, to 15 and put Richie Mo'unga at 10. New Zealand became more rather than less adventurous.

Ireland, by contrast, stuck rigidly to their gameplan. Of course, no one expects them to play like New Zealand. They have neither the players nor the skills to do so. But they could show a little more ambition. New Zealand offloaded 14 times and made 18 clean line breaks on Saturday night. Ireland offloaded three times and made two clean breaks. Schmidt's conservatism was a problem. Once they were behind they had no way of chasing the game. As Earls said: "It's hard enough playing against them with our A game, never mind our D game."

Farrell has never been a head coach so it remains to be seen what his philosophy will be. He is bringing in former England star Mike Catt and Leinster scrum coach John Fogarty to assist him - neither appointment appears to have inspired much confidence in fans - while Simon Easterby is contracted until next summer. Will the new coaching ticket look to move Ireland's game on or will they stick with Schmidt's gameplan?


3. Pick on form not experience

"A World Cup is a lot about form," said Ireland's scrum coach Simon Easterby before the pool game against Samoa. "Very quickly it starts and very quickly it can be over. We have to look at it and balance selection experience but also form at the time."

In light of this truth bomb, you couldn't help but feel a bit sorry for Andrew Conway, Jordan Larmour and Rhys Ruddock on Saturday. Conway, who scored three pool stage tries, was probably Ireland's form winger at the World Cup. Yet he did not even make the 23 on Saturday as Schmidt stayed true to his 'bankers' Keith Earls and Jacob Stockdale, neither of whom had scored a try all tournament. The gamble backfired.

Ruddock, likewise, lost out to Peter O'Mahony, who at 30 years of age, looks knackered. As for Larmour, one of Ireland's truly exciting young talents, he just never seemed to be trusted by Schmidt. Similarly Craig Gilroy and Simon Zebo. Too risky. Compare and contrast with New Zealand - who dropped Owen Franks, Ben Smith and Rieko Ioane (213 caps between them) after the defeat by Australia in August, bringing in Nepo Laulala, Sevu Reece and George Bridge. It was utterly ruthless. And it paid off spectacularly.


4. Change the culture

Farrell could do worse than try to cultivate a more positive, open environment. Schmidt was the greatest coach Ireland have ever had. No question. But boy was he intense. His obsession with the minutiae, his desire to control every aspect of the operation, was full on.

When things were going well, players and coaches bought into it. When the weren't, there is no doubt his overbearing style wore down his players, as well as making relations with the Fourth Estate that bit more tense, which had a knock-on effect on the squad. There are already signs Farrell is keen to start afresh on this front, making a good impression on the occasions he was put up for the media in Japan.

But he did not appear in the wake of the defeat, nor did he speak the following day. It might have been wise to get out ahead of the story after such a catastrophic game. To all intents and purposes he is now the boss. It is his reputation which is now on the line."