Tyrone v Kerry - All-Ireland Semi-Final, Sunday 11th August 3.30pm

Started by RedHand88, August 04, 2019, 09:27:02 PM

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Hound

Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

trailer

Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

trueblue1234

Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Absolutely. There's a fairly big % of people in Tyrone that would like Harte to leave, which is fair enough, he's a bit like Marmite. However I don't think he's underachieved with the current team, in fact if anything he's over achieved given the talent in my eyes. And he brought a level of professionalism to the set up that many other counties were lacking, and that helped bring us across the line. That will bring it's own detractors internally and you will see comments about Fuhrer Harte, etc.
I'm indifferent to him staying or going to be honest. The noise for him to go is that loud now that it can only divide the county. However I don't see a better manager coming in, so I don't see improvement in the County team happening anytime soon.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

imtommygunn

Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

t_mac

Football was invented in 2003, nothing counts before that.

trueblue1234

Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

I don't believe so. I've never heard anyone else saying that. There's many that just think Harte has ran his race and that a change would be good to freshen things up. But I've yet to hear anyone claim that he underachieved in the 00's.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

trailer

Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 19, 2019, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

I don't believe so. I've never heard anyone else saying that. There's many that just think Harte has ran his race and that a change would be good to freshen things up. But I've yet to hear anyone claim that he underachieved in the 00's.

That team in the 00s was destined to win All Irelands. There was definitely one All Ireland threw away in 07 when Harte picked a bogey team and got caught against Meath. The success of 03, 05 & 08 masked the years of underachievement. There was trojan work done in Tyrone long before Harte took on the senior set up. Football camps, Club Tyrone etc. Mickey Harte didn't invent winning. Tyrone has won the National League in 02 and were already a coming team. In reality Tyrone have beaten no one of note in the last 11 years. He is a specialist in failure. He has constantly got caught in Ulster, yet again this being another example. Tyrone county board should ask him to leave.


trailer

Quote from: hardstation on August 19, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
Would the players be regarded as "specialists in failure" too or is it handier to leave it all at Harte's door?

If Mickey Harte is a specialist in failure in Tyrone football, what does that say about anyone involved in playing or coaching Tyrone teams before 2003?

Last time I checked the players don't pick the team.

Crazy decisions this year alone that cost us games...

Cassidy dropped V Donegal
Rafferty started on McHugh v Donegal and got completely cleaned out
McCann one of Tyrone best performers dropped v Kerry
Harte not subbed v Kerry. Not even switched positions
Sludden who was having a good game was subbed v Kerry
Lee Brennan allowed to leave panel, arguably one of Tyrone's most dangerous forwards

Notable teams Tyrone have beaten since 2008.
...

4 Ulsters in 11 years. 6 in his complete tenure of 17 years.

But he has won at least 29 McKenna cups so there is that.


t_mac

Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 19, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
Would the players be regarded as "specialists in failure" too or is it handier to leave it all at Harte's door?

If Mickey Harte is a specialist in failure in Tyrone football, what does that say about anyone involved in playing or coaching Tyrone teams before 2003?

Last time I checked the players don't pick the team.

Crazy decisions this year alone that cost us games...

Cassidy dropped V Donegal
Rafferty started on McHugh v Donegal and got completely cleaned out
McCann one of Tyrone best performers dropped v Kerry
Harte not subbed v Kerry. Not even switched positions
Sludden who was having a good game was subbed v Kerry
Lee Brennan allowed to leave panel, arguably one of Tyrone's most dangerous forwards

Notable teams Tyrone have beaten since 2008.
...

4 Ulsters in 11 years. 6 in his complete tenure of 17 years.

But he has won at least 29 McKenna cups so there is that.

;D

imtommygunn

Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 19, 2019, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

I don't believe so. I've never heard anyone else saying that. There's many that just think Harte has ran his race and that a change would be good to freshen things up. But I've yet to hear anyone claim that he underachieved in the 00's.

That team in the 00s was destined to win All Irelands. There was definitely one All Ireland threw away in 07 when Harte picked a bogey team and got caught against Meath. The success of 03, 05 & 08 masked the years of underachievement. There was trojan work done in Tyrone long before Harte took on the senior set up. Football camps, Club Tyrone etc. Mickey Harte didn't invent winning. Tyrone has won the National League in 02 and were already a coming team. In reality Tyrone have beaten no one of note in the last 11 years. He is a specialist in failure. He has constantly got caught in Ulster, yet again this being another example. Tyrone county board should ask him to leave.

Yeah but 08 was one they won being huge underdogs so surely that made up for 07? yes they shouldn't have been caught by Meath I would agree.

I think for the period of 03 to 08 he most certainly did not underachieve but after that maybe up for debate. I personally don't think he did. The Cork team that beat Tyrone were just better. The semi with Kerry the other year they were just better. The semi this year I think he could have done more with mind you.

I think if you judge 3 AIs as a failure then you are an incredibly harsh judge.

I do often wonder whether sometimes Ulster always came at a time where his team was not setup to peak yet and he took this hit to aim for bigger prizes. Could be wrong in that but I do think the Donegal result would have been the other way in mid July on.

skeog

Say be a lot of people in management would love to have MH trophy winning record.

trueblue1234

Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 19, 2019, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

I don't believe so. I've never heard anyone else saying that. There's many that just think Harte has ran his race and that a change would be good to freshen things up. But I've yet to hear anyone claim that he underachieved in the 00's.

That team in the 00s was destined to win All Irelands. There was definitely one All Ireland threw away in 07 when Harte picked a bogey team and got caught against Meath. The success of 03, 05 & 08 masked the years of underachievement. There was trojan work done in Tyrone long before Harte took on the senior set up. Football camps, Club Tyrone etc. Mickey Harte didn't invent winning. Tyrone has won the National League in 02 and were already a coming team. In reality Tyrone have beaten no one of note in the last 11 years. He is a specialist in failure. He has constantly got caught in Ulster, yet again this being another example. Tyrone county board should ask him to leave.

Under another manager I'm not sure we would have won in 03. I believe we would have been beat by Kerry and not even reached the AI Final. But again that's me surmising just as you have. There's no way to prove either. I believe that 3 AI's within those 7 years was a great return for a county who had zero prior to that. I don't believe we've had a team good enough to win since 2010. Calling Tyrone's most successful manager a specialist in failure is just your usually attempt to over dramatise things.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Captain Obvious

Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 19, 2019, 01:58:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 19, 2019, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 19, 2019, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!

Harte is a specialist in failure. Underachieved with Tyrone's golden generation and is under achieving with this bunch. He must be replaced.

Yes with a mere 3 all irelands to a county that had never won one before.

Is that seriously a widely held opinion in Tyrone? I get why people might feel that he should go now and to be honest I think he is probably at the time is up stage but 3 all irelands was most certainly not under achieving??

I don't believe so. I've never heard anyone else saying that. There's many that just think Harte has ran his race and that a change would be good to freshen things up. But I've yet to hear anyone claim that he underachieved in the 00's.

That team in the 00s was destined to win All Irelands. There was definitely one All Ireland threw away in 07 when Harte picked a bogey team and got caught against Meath. The success of 03, 05 & 08 masked the years of underachievement. There was trojan work done in Tyrone long before Harte took on the senior set up. Football camps, Club Tyrone etc. Mickey Harte didn't invent winning. Tyrone has won the National League in 02 and were already a coming team. In reality Tyrone have beaten no one of note in the last 11 years. He is a specialist in failure. He has constantly got caught in Ulster, yet again this being another example. Tyrone county board should ask him to leave.

Under another manager I'm not sure we would have won in 03. I believe we would have been beat by Kerry and not even reached the AI Final. But again that's me surmising just as you have. There's no way to prove either. I believe that 3 AI's within those 7 years was a great return for a county who had zero prior to that. I don't believe we've had a team good enough to win since 2010. Calling Tyrone's most successful manager a specialist in failure is just your usually attempt to over dramatise things.

He's making attempt at wumming but not succeeding.

imtommygunn

Trueblue in one of those years the captain died too. I don't think the impact that had can be overstated.

Blowitupref

Quote from: Hound on August 19, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Re the talk of replacing Harte, the risk there is whether he's actually over achieving with this group getting them to the All Ireland semis most years and final last year.

If you compare the current group of players to the team that won All Irelands, there wouldn't be too many getting into the starting line.

Canavan, O'Neill, Mulligan, Dooher, McGuigan - means at most only one of the current crop of forwards would get in. And not too dissimilar at the back.
Now, maybe all that proves is you were blessed to have a really really top team in the past!
I don't think Jim Gavin would have taken Tyrone much further the last 10 years.  Tyrone reaching the last four 4 of the championship 4 times in the last 5 years with a panel of players no where near the quality of their All Ireland winning teams has been a success in itself.

2001 AI quarter final stage exit to Derry and 2002 a round 4 qualifier exit to Sligo in Croke park. Tyrone didn't know if they coming or going before Harte became senior manager in 2003.

Mickey Harte introduced a winning mentality in the business end of the championship. He led Tyrone to three underage All Irelands, minor 1998 and U21 2000,2001 and good number of the players on those sides would then go on to win senior AI's.  For some perspective 1993 to 1999 Tyrone didn't even reach a Ulster U21 final.



Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose