Down v Meath official thread

[Square Ball]

Trials for the East Down u14 development squad are ongoing at the minute, the team is being looked after my Kilcoos Conor Lavery, no problem with the set up, especially when you consider that the Kilcoo under 14s were last years Feile champions,but the Down CB were also running the Hurling trials on the same day at different locations making it difficult to attend both.

trying to orginise u12s and,14s would be a big problem and would result in restructuring the fixtures, couldnt play these matches on weeknights due to the distances and the time taken to travel, especially for the like of Bredagh/Carryduff/St Pauls to go to Warrenpoint/An Riocht and back, and the same would be true for the return fixtures, they would have to be played on a saturday or sunday, not impossible as the U12s play Go Games on a Sundays.

a lot of good points there DF, wonder how many of them will get of the ground?

[goldenyears]

is conor laverty a coach? how does he warrant coaching an u14 development squad?

[Brick Tamlin]

i know its deadly, how does he end up in charge of a development squad like this..what backround/education/degree/diploma/experience does he have or do these guys who are in charge have, is there an interview process or some sor tof criteria required.

sure half those u14s would be bigger than him too.

[Square Ball]

Golden Years, i believe so, coach/manager/mentor one of those and seems to be calling the shots when it comes to who is cut and who isnt, I dont know what his coaching credentials are, is he employed by the county board?

[Square Ball]

should we bring this discussion over to the county thread?

[imtommygunn]

Just a point from an outsider looking in...

The perception seems to be from Down folk that the structures in place in Down are not good enough. However if they aren't then how did you win two minor all irelands in the last 8/9 years? Would the perception be that this is the schools coaching? From an outside viewpoint it seems transitioning players into good senior players would be your main problem - the question would be why is this? Would it be the standard of club football perhaps? It seems very one sided with Mayobridge and I do believe in years to come Crossmaglen being so dominant in Armagh football will have a detrimental effect on the county team so could it maybe be something like this? Just to add to debate - not an expert and would like to see Down come strong again.

[Brick Tamlin]

to put it simply we won the All Ireland Minor Title in 99 because that team was a very talented team with most lads coming to fruition at just the right time (with hindsight, maybe too early in some cases).I wouldnt be placing too much praise on the management team from that era.

the minor winning team of 2005 was nowhere near as good on paper as alot of the previous years minor teams (a bit similar to U21 All Ireland Finalists a few years back) but they had 3/4 big game players in central positions which eventually saw them through, that and a mixture of poor opposition outside Ulster (bar Offaly) saw them lift a relatively easy All Ireland Title. and i mean no slight on that team by the way, they were in my opinion just one of the poorer teams to win an All Ireland.

[imtommygunn]

So Brick in your opinion then the standard of players coming through isn't good enough?

It is to be honest a real shame for Down that Clarke went to Oz although you can't blame him.

Your last minor team at the time looked like it had very good players. Your man Colgan looked superb but boys like him just have not come through at senior level at all. I saw him in Sigerson and he was relatively anonymous. Ireland looked very good at the time in minor(think he was only just overage the year of the minor win?) but seeing him in Sigerson and he looked , to be honest, rubbish. Questions maybe need to be asked as to what is happening to these boys between minor and senior to make them turn out like this?

[Brick Tamlin]

everyone knows there is a precarious drop there in that gap between minor and senior (even u21 in some cases) and that alot of guys fall by the wayside. also there is that other killer of players with potential - 3RD LEVEL EDUCATION (and i use that term loosely).

the guys that you have mentioned have unfortunately so far not lived up to the hype in terms of development, for one reason or another. There is a perception in Down that if you were a good minor then you will easily make the leap to senior, this couldnt be further from the truth.

Joe Ireland as far as i know struggles to start for Bryansford and is rarely heard of these days. While James Colgan in my eyes is possibly one of the most over-hyped players in Down. both have potential and at that i mean the potential to fill two very important positions on a Down Senior side but it might take a few years for them to come good. its more often than not that the players who end up standing out are those previous minors or u21s who werent grabbing the limelight at an early age. There is talent there undoubtedly but its harnessing that talent in the correct direction and ensuring that a professional approach/setup is in place and that social culture(drinking ahem) of the team does not get in the way of future development.

[dundrumite]

yes conor laverty is employed as a full time coach by the county board as a coaching office and has being for the last 2 or 3 years,so its full time job to start with. He has guided kilcoo to numerous east down and county titles at under 12 and 14 as well as being part of the management team which took kilcoo to an all-ireland under 14 success. As well as this he is taking a part time degree in coaching in Jordanstown, Would rather have someone with such experience and success behind them coaching my kids than a 6 ft + coach.

[UPDOWN]

Promblem is transfer minor talent to u 21 level. Look at our last 2 u-21 campaigns compared to the same teams at minor level. There is too much emphasis on pre 18 and little or no development after that age.

[6th sam]

Down Fanatic,some excellent ideas.
However,most modern sports development thinking discourages competitive football before 14 years of age.
The danger with selection of your elite players at this age ,is twofold.1.The selected players think they've made it already.2.Those who miss out are on the scrapheap.Neither group of players have the maturity at that stage to deal with success or failure.
You have hit on the key factors in underage development-the schools and the clubs.If we focus on these areas ,nobody with potential will slip through the net.
The difference between Down and Tyrone is not the quality of coaches in charge of our county squads,but rather the depth of quality coaches at schools and club levels.
We need to make sure that  schools are encouraged to make  GF their No.1 sport.Those schools who have done this have been successful and have produced the talent.
We need ALL clubs to actively encourage proper coaching at all levels.
The CB needs to assist clubs in "training up" coaches for all levels,and establish a coaching development program for every club.
Controversially,If clubs are unable to meet minimum criteria-CB should consider encouraging amalgamations,dissolving underperforming clubs,and allowing players to move to a club which is providing quality coaching.

The gap between minor and u21,should be filled by expecting all players who are serious about becoming senior county players to either play for their colleges,or the county rookie squad.The rookie squads should be restricted to non-college players only and should perhaps be allowed to compete at sigerson level.This would ensure that all potential county players are exposed to a uniform level of competition and coaching/lifestyle advice,regardless of their choice of career.

Finally,I would consider replacing u21 level with a senior county development squad.

There are a number of good ideas out there,and what we need is a county strategic plan conducted by the right calibre of people.

[6th sam]

To be fair to Jerry Quinn,he was only in office a relatively short time.I must confess,I always thought he was prepared to listen to ideas rationally.The problem lies with the excessive bureaucratic nature of the GAA.If Jerry was presented with a good idea,he had to put it before the club representatives,who understandably have more parochial agendas.
That's why we need an independent strategic plan for all aspects of GAA in the county,conducted by someone like Peter Quinn,who knows the workings of the GAA,but is also a successful businessman.All interested parties can have their input to the plan.It can then be adopted and reviewed by the county admin team.
When should we start the process?YESTERDAY!

[Pangurban]

FFS leave the under14s alone, let them have fun and enjoy themselves learning to be part of a team and developing interest and their natural talent. Talk of coaching and competition at this level makes me sick, it does more harm than good, particularly when you see the quality of some of the coaching,and the manner in which it is delivered.