A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[burdizzo]

Nationalists outpolled Unionists by a not insignificant margin at the last election.  Unionists will never outpoll Nationalists at any election ever again, including the Unity Referendum, no matter how quickly it happens.

Also, the census results are already 2 years out of date, and the gap will have increased since then.

Coming  soon.... Plantation II

Humph. It's happening already.

[clonadmad]

It really is quite sikening to hear the DUP, FF, Alliance and UU chastise SF for attending a commemoration.

Yes the same angels expect nationalists to enjoy the Twelfth "celebrations".

Finally, and to rub noses in it further, Micheál Martin visits the home of the Orange Order today.

I don't know what Martin and FF and FG think they are at when then are kow towing to an organisation in a months time will gleefully burn the flag of the country they swear to serve

I'm far from a SF voter but the reality is that instead of Official Ireland licking these f**kers holes and they seeing it as a sign of weakness on the part of the south

We should be a damn sight more robust in our dealings with all shades of unionism

Everything they do is  all  about keeping  SF out , and  them keeping their cushy  positions .  Attack SF  at every opportunity . ,  They're worse vthan the DUP in that  regard

I don't know if Politicians coming from the Republic and "reaching out " to the likes of the Orange Order is much to do with attacking SF

It's more to do with a misguided and long held belief in the south amongst Official Ireland that if we are nice to Unionists they will suddenly morph into advocates for a United Ireland

This has continually proved to be wrong and every attempt has been thrown back in our faces

You only have to look at Brexit and the likes of the DUP seeking to do economic harm to the Republic

A United Ireland vote in NI will be won by appealing to the middle ground

Expecting one unionist to vote for it is harmless in the extreme

[marty34]

It really is quite sikening to hear the DUP, FF, Alliance and UU chastise SF for attending a commemoration.

Yes the same angels expect nationalists to enjoy the Twelfth "celebrations".

Finally, and to rub noses in it further, Micheál Martin visits the home of the Orange Order today.

I don't know what Martin and FF and FG think they are at when then are kow towing to an organisation in a months time will gleefully burn the flag of the country they swear to serve

I'm far from a SF voter but the reality is that instead of Official Ireland licking these f**kers holes and they seeing it as a sign of weakness on the part of the south

We should be a damn sight more robust in our dealings with all shades of unionism

Everything they do is  all  about keeping  SF out , and  them keeping their cushy  positions .  Attack SF  at every opportunity . ,  They're worse vthan the DUP in that  regard

I don't know if Politicians coming from the Republic and "reaching out " to the likes of the Orange Order is much to do with attacking SF

It's more to do with a misguided and long held belief in the south amongst Official Ireland that if we are nice to Unionists they will suddenly morph into advocates for a United Ireland

This has continually proved to be wrong and every attempt has been thrown back in our faces

You only have to look at Brexit and the likes of the DUP seeking to do economic harm to the Republic

A United Ireland vote in NI will be won by appealing to the middle ground

Expecting one unionist to vote for it is harmless in the extreme

Not sure why people think that FFG should be convincing the bigots of the OO to be advocates for a re-united Ireland, when FFG themselves are not even advocates for a re-united Ireland.

[armaghniac]

I don't know if Politicians coming from the Republic and "reaching out " to the likes of the Orange Order is much to do with attacking SF

It's more to do with a misguided and long held belief in the south amongst Official Ireland that if we are nice to Unionists they will suddenly morph into advocates for a United Ireland

This has continually proved to be wrong and every attempt has been thrown back in our faces

You only have to look at Brexit and the likes of the DUP seeking to do economic harm to the Republic

A United Ireland vote in NI will be won by appealing to the middle ground

Expecting one unionist to vote for it is harmless in the extreme

However, one part of convincing the middle ground is that they need to see that some effort was made to reach out to unionists. If the unionists spurn those efforts, as they almost inevitably will, it will still show the difference between the political culture. Also 10% of people from a unionist background will respond to these efforts and this too will help.

[Applesisapples]

SF have pushed it out for at least 10 years, by the very name of being called a unionist they'll hardly even give it any thought and will only be looking at creating a better union, not working out well for them at the minute.

Though dragging 1 million people into something they aint interested in will be problematic, this wasn't discussed 100 years ago when the shoe was on the other foot but seems to be an issue now lol

The only way to accommodate the unionist is to still allow them the be unionist, having a period of self governance a certain degree of nothing changing while blending in a new Ireland.

Forcing it will only end in disaster

It's not really 1m, there are a great number of people in the pro-union community who are persuadable or who actually wouldn't object provided they can see the benefits. There is a hardcore of around 300,000 who'd be vehemently against. That is probably reflected on the nationalist side by those who are accepting of the status quo. There is no active selling of a UI in my view by Nationalism at the moment it will take buy in from the Irish Government and Martin et al do not want to pursue a UI. They prefer to put funds into NI to help make it work. A SF led government in the South might change that.

[clonadmad]

I don't know if Politicians coming from the Republic and "reaching out " to the likes of the Orange Order is much to do with attacking SF

It's more to do with a misguided and long held belief in the south amongst Official Ireland that if we are nice to Unionists they will suddenly morph into advocates for a United Ireland

This has continually proved to be wrong and every attempt has been thrown back in our faces

You only have to look at Brexit and the likes of the DUP seeking to do economic harm to the Republic

A United Ireland vote in NI will be won by appealing to the middle ground

Expecting one unionist to vote for it is harmless in the extreme

However, one part of convincing the middle ground is that they need to see that some effort was made to reach out to unionists. If the unionists spurn those efforts, as they almost inevitably will, it will still show the difference between the political culture. Also 10% of people from a unionist background will respond to these efforts and this too will help.

Are there 10% of Unionists or those from a Unionist background who would vote for a UI ?

Ive never seen this reflected in any poll

[imtommygunn]

That kind of thing will change. NI in it's current form is not working. All you read about day in day out is funding cuts to health, to education, to the likes of disabled charities etc etc. Everything is getting cut left right and centre and life expectancy is going to reduce, unemployment is going to get higher etc. It's the same on either side tbh - an economic argument would sway a lot of people. The way the DUP are behaving they are swinging people who wouldn't vote UI to voting for it because as it stands it's in their own best interests.

[yellowcard]

I think what we are seeing is a managed decline of the 6 counties whether through choice or necessity, similar to Thatchers government policy regarding the city of Liverpool in the 1980s. I don't see that improving anytime soon. The UK economy is tanking and this place is not a priority and the DUP had every chance to try and make it work but they have shown that its their own party before union or anything else.

[Orior]

I don't know if Politicians coming from the Republic and "reaching out " to the likes of the Orange Order is much to do with attacking SF

It's more to do with a misguided and long held belief in the south amongst Official Ireland that if we are nice to Unionists they will suddenly morph into advocates for a United Ireland

This has continually proved to be wrong and every attempt has been thrown back in our faces

You only have to look at Brexit and the likes of the DUP seeking to do economic harm to the Republic

A United Ireland vote in NI will be won by appealing to the middle ground

Expecting one unionist to vote for it is harmless in the extreme

However, one part of convincing the middle ground is that they need to see that some effort was made to reach out to unionists. If the unionists spurn those efforts, as they almost inevitably will, it will still show the difference between the political culture. Also 10% of people from a unionist background will respond to these efforts and this too will help.

Are there 10% of Unionists or those from a Unionist background who would vote for a UI ?

Ive never seen this reflected in any poll

Yes, and definitely more than 10%. However, they won't stand up and shout about it for fear of hate and ridicule. Many protestants are completely fed up with their politicians and the way that they're treated by the British. They didn't vote for Brexit and are very happy to travel on an Irish passport.

Vocal unionists and their politicians think these silent people will come out and vote for the status quo, but those politicians are in for a big shock. Just look at how independant Lady Harman was the north Down Westminster MP, and then the seat went to Alliance. It's anyone but the DUP and UU.

[weareros]

As I've said before, it may look like Dublin is doing nothing but the protocol has effectively created an economic UI, same trading arrangements, same regulatory alignment for important industries like agriculture, maintained single market energy alignment across the island. It means when a vote passes, much of the behind the scenes groundwork has been done. We're going to become less dependent on UK for energy with new pipeline to France/EU and increases in wind energy. There's a reason the DUP and TUV hate the protocol - it gets rid of many of the headaches of unification. It's not really about a sausage checked at Larne.The big question is will the Irish government create a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund to support unification with the huge surpluses they will have over the next years. It would be a big miss not to and a statement of intent if they do. I have my doubts on that one. Paschal will be lecturing us that we need to pay down long term debt instead.

[armaghniac]

I think what we are seeing is a managed decline of the 6 counties whether through choice or necessity, similar to Thatchers government policy regarding the city of Liverpool in the 1980s. I don't see that improving anytime soon. The UK economy is tanking and this place is not a priority and the DUP had every chance to try and make it work but they have shown that its their own party before union or anything else.

NI has ready access to buoyant demand only an hour away and has access to to whole EU market. Public provision may not increase but there should be some opportunities for the private sector to enjoy modest success. For instance, if you could make modular houses in Derry or Tyrone and put them on a lorry then they would find a use for them in the 26 counties.

Are there 10% of Unionists or those from a Unionist background who would vote for a UI ?

Ive never seen this reflected in any poll

Yes, and definitely more than 10%. However, they won't stand up and shout about it for fear of hate and ridicule. Many protestants are completely fed up with their politicians and the way that they're treated by the British. They didn't vote for Brexit and are very happy to travel on an Irish passport.

Vocal unionists and their politicians think these silent people will come out and vote for the status quo, but those politicians are in for a big shock. Just look at how independant Lady Harman was the north Down Westminster MP, and then the seat went to Alliance. It's anyone but the DUP and UU.

Now some of the unionists that might have been open to discussion have moved into the Alliance camp, but thee are still the type of anti Brexit unionists who can be talked to.

[AustinPowers]

That kind of thing will change. NI in it's current form is not working. All you read about day in day out is funding cuts to health, to education, to the likes of disabled charities etc etc. Everything is getting cut left right and centre and life expectancy is going to reduce, unemployment is going to get higher etc. It's the same on either side tbh - an economic argument would sway a lot of people. The way the DUP are behaving they are swinging people who wouldn't vote UI to voting for it because as it stands it's in their own best interests.

NI never  worked. Well , it did for a few decades... but only for unionists.

[Milltown Row2]

How was the reunification of East Germany into West Germany at the time? Did it present issues and are there lessons to be learnt

[blasmere]

How was the reunification of East Germany into West Germany at the time? Did it present issues and are there lessons to be learnt

The thing there was they were all Germans. Poverty and investment post Socialist collapse, were the major issues there which, the way things are going, the divide between North and South could be heading that way.

[jmcgdoire]

Nationalists outpolled Unionists by a not insignificant margin at the last election.  Unionists will never outpoll Nationalists at any election ever again, including the Unity Referendum, no matter how quickly it happens.

Also, the census results are already 2 years out of date, and the gap will have increased since then.

Wouldnt be so sure about this. Its one thing to sing sean south from garryowen. But we will soon find out how many real Nationalists there are if there is a referendum.
I personally would support a united Ireland but I dont think im in the majority - even amongst some of my "nationalist" peers. I think we are quite a bit away from it yet.
But if the DUP keep doing what theyre doing working as hard as they are: we will have a United Ireland in no time!