A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[trailer]

Just a couple of random comments. Firstly on being a Nationalist. It is possible to be a Nationalist and not want a UI without guarantees that your healthcare and financial future is secure. these are not contradictory positions and are reasonable. They will also need addressed if a vote for a UI is to be won. Secondly we Irish are great at blaming the Catholic Church for all the social woes of the country in. the last century. This conservatism was not just the preserve of Catholicism, Protestant Churches in the North were not dissimilar in their hold on personal values and morals and there are many examples of other countries at that time in the vice of conservative christianity, and that's before we even mention islam. As with everything it is imo not helpful looking back at history through the prism of today, rather look forward.

Dunno. Think the definition of an Irish Nationalist is pretty clear. Doubt you can support a union with Britain (or at least preserving the status quo) and be an Irish Nationalist. Maybe you can hold those contradictory points of view.
Yes there a loads of questions to be answered. Only a fool would call for a Unity referendum without having a clear agreement on what a UI would look like.

[Angelo]

We know that there is a monstrous national debt problem that the banking bailouts worsened.

But there was also another problem of runaway public spending that was financed in the boom years by runaway tax receipts. Once the 2008 crash hit, the tax receipts dried up and the spending became unaffordable. The result was years of public sector pay cuts and austerity.

The Shinners and Fine Gael contributed to both problems, even if neither of them were in power in the decade prior to 2008.

What you are saying is absolutely risible.

SF had 4 seats out of 166 in the Free State General Election in 2007.

4 seats and you are blaming them for the policies and governmental decisions that led to the financial crisis that broke out in 2008? A fringe party with 2.4% of Dail seats being blamed for government decisions.

What you are saying insults people's intelligence, it's Comical Ali level behaviour.

It's like blaming PBP for FG's economic policies in the last government, utter insanity.

So what? Fine Gael were decimated in the 2002 election and still were a miserable minority after 2007. Both parties not only supported the bank guarantee, but they also supported Fianna Fáil's  & the Greens' spending splurge, complaining only that they weren't spending enough. Labour to their credit opposed the bank guarantee but were also roaring for more and more money to be spent everywhere and anywhere.

All 5 parties have blood on their hands. All are part of the same rotten political cartel. And all 5 will between them wreck a united Ireland if they ever get a chance.

So what? This is utterly insane what you are saying. Labour vote for austerity and to put the burden of the bond holders on citizens for decades.

If public spending improves services and facilities for the population then you can't spend enough of it. The problem is FFG like to put taxpayers money into the hands of their cronies and vested interests.

FFG have ruled the state since it's inception but you are trying to shift the blame on the 2008 financial crisis on a fringe party who had 4 seats out of 166.

It's like trying to blame Leitrim for not stopping Dublin win the All Ireland this year. It's insane, utterly illogical and shows the type of manure you are willing to talk to deflect away from those responsible.

I have heard some ridiculous things on this forum but you've made the most idiotic contributions I have ever come across on here.

[Applesisapples]

Won't vote for a UI unless someone "guarantees that my healthcare and financial future is secure".

I've heard it all now

Who was it called ye "spongers" years ago??

Sponger my hole, I have worked and paid Tax and National Insurance for 42 years, never claimed the dole or sick pay once.

[Applesisapples]

Just a couple of random comments. Firstly on being a Nationalist. It is possible to be a Nationalist and not want a UI without guarantees that your healthcare and financial future is secure. these are not contradictory positions and are reasonable. They will also need addressed if a vote for a UI is to be won. Secondly we Irish are great at blaming the Catholic Church for all the social woes of the country in. the last century. This conservatism was not just the preserve of Catholicism, Protestant Churches in the North were not dissimilar in their hold on personal values and morals and there are many examples of other countries at that time in the vice of conservative christianity, and that's before we even mention islam. As with everything it is imo not helpful looking back at history through the prism of today, rather look forward.

Dunno. Think the definition of an Irish Nationalist is pretty clear. Doubt you can support a union with Britain (or at least preserving the status quo) and be an Irish Nationalist. Maybe you can hold those contradictory points of view.
Yes there a loads of questions to be answered. Only a fool would call for a Unity referendum without having a clear agreement on what a UI would look like.

I don't support the union but a UI has to improve peoples lot otherwise it won't carry. What I am saying is there needs to be a clear path and planning, look at Brexit.

[trailer]

Just a couple of random comments. Firstly on being a Nationalist. It is possible to be a Nationalist and not want a UI without guarantees that your healthcare and financial future is secure. these are not contradictory positions and are reasonable. They will also need addressed if a vote for a UI is to be won. Secondly we Irish are great at blaming the Catholic Church for all the social woes of the country in. the last century. This conservatism was not just the preserve of Catholicism, Protestant Churches in the North were not dissimilar in their hold on personal values and morals and there are many examples of other countries at that time in the vice of conservative christianity, and that's before we even mention islam. As with everything it is imo not helpful looking back at history through the prism of today, rather look forward.

Dunno. Think the definition of an Irish Nationalist is pretty clear. Doubt you can support a union with Britain (or at least preserving the status quo) and be an Irish Nationalist. Maybe you can hold those contradictory points of view.
Yes there a loads of questions to be answered. Only a fool would call for a Unity referendum without having a clear agreement on what a UI would look like.

I don't support the union but a UI has to improve peoples lot otherwise it won't carry. What I am saying is there needs to be a clear path and planning, look at Brexit.

Fair enough. I'd go along with that.

[five points]

So what? This is utterly insane what you are saying. Labour vote for austerity and to put the burden of the bond holders on citizens for decades.

If public spending improves services and facilities for the population then you can't spend enough of it. The problem is FFG like to put taxpayers money into the hands of their cronies and vested interests.

FFG have ruled the state since it's inception but you are trying to shift the blame on the 2008 financial crisis on a fringe party who had 4 seats out of 166.

It's like trying to blame Leitrim for not stopping Dublin win the All Ireland this year. It's insane, utterly illogical and shows the type of manure you are willing to talk to deflect away from those responsible.

I have heard some ridiculous things on this forum but you've made the most idiotic contributions I have ever come across on here.

No, it's like blaming Leitrim and every other county for Ireland's Covid problem if the behaviour in Leitrim is no better nor worse than elsewhere.

SF had many opportunities in the pre-2008 period to demand a halt both to the ruinous public spending and to the crazy bank lending that was going on at the time, where ordinary people were being lent millions to bid up the price of green fields. Again they had an opportunity in 2008 to reject the bank guarantee. 

They failed on all 3 counts.

And their approach to Covid has been little better - picking the odd hole in the government's policies but not even a whisper of a different approach let alone solutions.

[Angelo]

So what? This is utterly insane what you are saying. Labour vote for austerity and to put the burden of the bond holders on citizens for decades.

If public spending improves services and facilities for the population then you can't spend enough of it. The problem is FFG like to put taxpayers money into the hands of their cronies and vested interests.

FFG have ruled the state since it's inception but you are trying to shift the blame on the 2008 financial crisis on a fringe party who had 4 seats out of 166.

It's like trying to blame Leitrim for not stopping Dublin win the All Ireland this year. It's insane, utterly illogical and shows the type of manure you are willing to talk to deflect away from those responsible.

I have heard some ridiculous things on this forum but you've made the most idiotic contributions I have ever come across on here.

No, it's like blaming Leitrim and every other county for Ireland's Covid problem if the behaviour in Leitrim is no better nor worse than elsewhere.

SF had many opportunities in the pre-2008 period to demand a halt both to the ruinous public spending and to the crazy bank lending that was going on at the time, where ordinary people were being lent millions to bid up the price of green fields. Again they had an opportunity in 2008 to reject the bank guarantee. 

They failed on all 3 counts.

And their approach to Covid has been little better - picking the odd hole in the government's policies but not even a whisper of a different approach let alone solutions.

SF had no opportunities, they have never had power in the free state. What difference would SF rejecting the bank guarantee in 2008 have had? A symolic gesture that would not have stopped it.

It's completely illogical what you are spouting. Only those vested with power have the ability to make decisions. It was a FFG decision to a FFG problem

I would agree that SF have been extremely poor throughout this pandemic however.

[johnnycool]

Won't vote for a UI unless someone "guarantees that my healthcare and financial future is secure".

I've heard it all now

Who was it called ye "spongers" years ago??

Sponger my hole, I have worked and paid Tax and National Insurance for 42 years, never claimed the dole or sick pay once.

Apples,
      Pre Covid the NHS in Northern Ireland was on its uppers anyway. Getting a consultation on most things deemed to be non urgent, 1 plus years, GP's visit one to two weeks minimum.
I'm not that fussed if I lose that type of NHS tomorrow if I'm honest and I don't currently have a private healthcare insurance for me or my family. I'd pay for my prescriptions, I'd pay the €40 to see a GP if I could see them that day or the day after, no bother.

As for your financial future, don't know if you're in the public or private sector but you can see that block grant that comes over from Whitehall (that unionists seem to be so proud of) being cut in a dramatic way in the next year or two, so economic hardship is on its way for the wee six as part of the UK.

Angelo like a lot of died in the wool shinners does the cause he's espousing more harm than good, Sinn Fein need to get their heads round that and wise to f**k up as with Biden in the WH and ballbag Boris in Downing street there could never be a better time to constructively work for a UI, an imperfect one but one all the same to get behind and hope that the good will factor brings in decent foreign investment and the likes.

The Utopian 32 county socialist republic needs put on the back-burner till the 32 county republic is achieved.

[Angelo]

Won't vote for a UI unless someone "guarantees that my healthcare and financial future is secure".

I've heard it all now

Who was it called ye "spongers" years ago??

Sponger my hole, I have worked and paid Tax and National Insurance for 42 years, never claimed the dole or sick pay once.

Apples,
      Pre Covid the NHS in Northern Ireland was on its uppers anyway. Getting a consultation on most things deemed to be non urgent, 1 plus years, GP's visit one to two weeks minimum.
I'm not that fussed if I lose that type of NHS tomorrow if I'm honest and I don't currently have a private healthcare insurance for me or my family. I'd pay for my prescriptions, I'd pay the €40 to see a GP if I could see them that day or the day after, no bother.

As for your financial future, don't know if you're in the public or private sector but you can see that block grant that comes over from Whitehall (that unionists seem to be so proud of) being cut in a dramatic way in the next year or two, so economic hardship is on its way for the wee six as part of the UK.

Angelo like a lot of died in the wool shinners does the cause he's espousing more harm than good, Sinn Fein need to get their heads round that and wise to f**k up as with Biden in the WH and ballbag Boris in Downing street there could never be a better time to constructively work for a UI, an imperfect one but one all the same to get behind and hope that the good will factor brings in decent foreign investment and the likes.

The Utopian 32 county socialist republic needs put on the back-burner till the 32 county republic is achieved.

I'm not a died in the wool shinner.

I have plenty of criticisms of SF but I am a republican firstly and a socialist secondly and the voting options are very limited for republicans on this island.

[trailer]

I wish SF were in power in the South in a way. Be a wake up call. It'd a bit like Mercia electing Trump. They tried it thinking things couldn't be much worse but then he turned the US into one big giant military parade and well sure I'll stop at this juncture.
If the South want to see what it'd be like to be governed by SF just look to the North. Massive NHS waiting lists, huge levels of poverty, school children dealing with a primary to secondary school transfer mess, Incompetence at government and CS levels that is astounding, power centralised west of the Bann, embarrassed on the international stage, and no Irish language act!!! This is the reality.

[general_lee]

I wish SF were in power in the South in a way. Be a wake up call. It'd a bit like Mercia electing Trump. They tried it thinking things couldn't be much worse but then he turned the US into one big giant military parade and well sure I'll stop at this juncture.
If the South want to see what it'd be like to be governed by SF THE BRITS just look to the North. Massive NHS waiting lists, huge levels of poverty, school children dealing with a primary to secondary school transfer mess, Incompetence at government and CS levels that is astounding, power centralised west of the Bann, embarrassed on the international stage, and no Irish language act!!! This is the reality.

Fixed

[Rossfan]

Won't vote for a UI unless someone "guarantees that my healthcare and financial future is secure".

I've heard it all now

Who was it called ye "spongers" years ago??

Sponger my hole, I have worked and paid Tax and National Insurance for 42 years, never claimed the dole or sick pay once.

Sound.
Westminster will be paying your OAP or will they send all your contributions to the new AI Exchequer?

[Angelo]

I wish SF were in power in the South in a way. Be a wake up call. It'd a bit like Mercia electing Trump. They tried it thinking things couldn't be much worse but then he turned the US into one big giant military parade and well sure I'll stop at this juncture.
If the South want to see what it'd be like to be governed by SF just look to the North. Massive NHS waiting lists, huge levels of poverty, school children dealing with a primary to secondary school transfer mess, Incompetence at government and CS levels that is astounding, power centralised west of the Bann, embarrassed on the international stage, and no Irish language act!!! This is the reality.

The north is governed by Tories in Westminister.

[trailer]

I wish SF were in power in the South in a way. Be a wake up call. It'd a bit like Mercia electing Trump. They tried it thinking things couldn't be much worse but then he turned the US into one big giant military parade and well sure I'll stop at this juncture.
If the South want to see what it'd be like to be governed by SF THE BRITS just look to the North. Massive NHS waiting lists, huge levels of poverty, school children dealing with a primary to secondary school transfer mess, Incompetence at government and CS levels that is astounding, power centralised west of the Bann, embarrassed on the international stage, and no Irish language act!!! This is the reality.

Fixed

You can't blame Britain for all the problems and then take credit for the good bits. (granted there's not that much to take credit for)
If you can't govern then get out of the way. This is the outworking of the Stormont house agreement that SF exclusively negotiated and agreed with the DUP. It's similar to what the Brexiteers are doing. Blaming others for their shit show. SF need to own it.

[general_lee]

Trailer. I'm going to assume you're intelligent enough to know that

1. Stormont is a glorified county council

And

2. Mahatma Gandhi would struggle to govern with the DUP