Monaghan v Down - Sat 29th July - Croke Park - 17:00

[GrandMasterFlash]

I was reluctant to start an individual thread and thought it would get mopped up in the qualifier thread but, the Armagh/Kildare boys set the tone, so here goes..

Revenge, being a word. There's no doubt that this is exactly the game that Monaghan need to awaken them from their slumber.. That's no guarantee that we'll win but I'd be pretty certain that one thing every Monaghan person wants to see put right is the 'fight in the dog'.. Down bullied Monaghan in the first 15/20 mins and our boys never reacted, which is unusual for a Monaghan team.. That had a definite impact on the game, our lads went on to miss easy chances, handing Down the initiative and belief. They fully deserved their win but this is an opportunity for Monaghan to put it right. Die dog or sh*te the license! I'm sure some of the lads have had sleepless nights since!

The first two men I'd have on the team-sheet are Gavin Doogan and Dermot Malone. MOR rather naively left these lads out the first day, opting to play a defender and a mid-fielder in the HF line (K Duffy and D Hughes respectively). Complacency, perhaps.

[Owen Brannigan]

Is there any point in Down turning up? Sure most of their support had left the last game in Clones with over ten minutes to go. This is surely a condemnation of their own team when so many supporters walk away so early in the game and is an insult to the players. The players dropped their heads one one man got a black card and largely admitted defeat as a certainty.

[snoopdog]

The winner gets the chance to be slaughtered by Dublin. What a prize. Down don't do qualifiers.

[Mourne Rover]

Owen Brannigan's suggestion that a majority of Down fans had left the ground with more than ten minutes to go, leading to players dropping their heads with one receiving a black card and the rest accepting defeat, bears no resemblance to what actually happened. McKernan's black card came after 41 minutes, Tyrone quickly went nine clear and the contest was effectively over.  Some Down fans certainly drifted away but most stayed to the end. For what it is worth,  Down, rather than throwing in the towel, outscored Tyrone by seven points to 1-2 in the last ten minutes. Congratulations to Tyrone, who were by far the better side on the day and won very comfortably, but Down supporters are still proud of everything achieved by our team so  far this season in entirely unexpected circumstances.

[PAULD123]

Mourne Rovers is right and the Tyrone goal was a sickening suckered punch. Without it we probably could have closed the gap to 3 or 4 points, we still would have lost but it wouldn'the have looked so bad and commentators would be talking about our fightback.

Where we lost it was the middle of second half where Owen Brannigan is right, the lads heads dropped and we were punished. Lesser teams (and we are one) find it hard to keep going for 70 minutes with full energy and determination when things look bleak. We fell into that. Tyrone through their experience do not stop they are relentless and confident in shooting. That's where we need to get to. The bright hope is that at least we did try to fightback.

[Main Street]

I see McKernan's 3rd black card has been rescinded and he's got the green light to play for Down. I wouldn't begrudge in the least  that he has the chance to play in this profile games or Down to have their best player available but I was pretty sure he deliberately went out of his way to shunt into the back of Cavanagh. Possibly the review committee were not convinced that there was enough power in the shunt to knock over the hulk that is Big Sean, never mind leave him on the ground in a daze until that time the ref dished out the card.

[PAULD123]

The rule is about taking a player out of play. So maybe they judged that McKernan deliberately shunted him but that he wasn't likely to be involved in the next play anyhow. Just offering a possible explanation. Not saying it is what I think cos I missed it at the game and haven't seen a reply since.

[Fuzzman]

Yeah he definitely deliberately went for Cavanagh and shunted him from behind into his back so Sean didn't even see him coming. It was pretty obvious Down were targetting Sean all game probably to get a reaction or put him off his game and in a way it worked I suppose as he didn't play that well.
However, I would say it should have been a yellow card as the ball was miles away and so he was not taking him out of play like a third man tackle sort of thing.
I think that's why McKernan looked so shocked when he saw it was a black card and not yellow.

I'd fear for Down in this game as I think Monaghan have a big game in them and they've not produced it so far. They will be annoyed how Down bulleyed them so easily the first day as normally it is Monaghan who dish it out more.
McCarron and McManus have been quiet this championship and so will see this as a big chance to put that right.

[Main Street]

The rule is about taking a player out of play. So maybe they judged that McKernan deliberately shunted him but that he wasn't likely to be involved in the next play anyhow. Just offering a possible explanation. Not saying it is what I think cos I missed it at the game and haven't seen a reply since.

I'd guess they deemed the coming together as being accidental.

That deviating off your natural path to collide with your opponent was not enough evidence to deem it a deliberate collision.

[omagh_gael]

Jack McCarron has been very poor in the championship, surely his place is under pressure? Would Conor McCarthy not be pushing hard for a start at this stage?

[Main Street]

Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.

[Boycey]

Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.

The problem with starting McCarthy is that he doesn't have 70 mins in him and he'll likely have to be replaced on 45/50 mins at a stage where you want your best attackers on the field. Monaghan seem to have a few forwards who operate better from the bench than they do when starting Owen Duffy being a prime example.

[PAULD123]

Monaghan are a good team with plenty of experience. I would imagine they would be likely to win this second chance match. If they get ahead I would worry that Down lads heads will drop like against Tyrone. Also the Ulster final loss will have hurt badly. Maybe it galvanises,   or maybe it crushes.

However Down are a team learning to be confident. We will likely start forcefully as that has been our style this last few games. If we get a few points lead then the confidence could kick in and we could win it. I deeply believe that man for man the natural ability level is about equal. It's experience and confidence that we lack.

[GrandMasterFlash]

Monaghan were complacent the first day, both tactically and individually. I can't see them being like that again. McKernan, O'Hanlon, Maginn & Harrison got far too much time and space on the ball, this will be tightened up. Drew Wylie got little protection from the sweeper (normally Kieran Duffy), because the sweeper was lined out along with a midfielder in the half forward line, with the intention of having a greater scoring threat. Wylie will relish the opportunity to right the wrongs of the last day. Of course Down fully deserved their win, but I can't see Monaghan making the same mistakes twice. If they do, there'll a locka jerseys and car flags going cheap.. 

[omagh_gael]

Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.

The problem with starting McCarthy is that he doesn't have 70 mins in him and he'll likely have to be replaced on 45/50 mins at a stage where you want your best attackers on the field. Monaghan seem to have a few forwards who operate better from the bench than they do when starting Owen Duffy being a prime example.

Why would McCarthy not have 70 minutes in him? Sure he's only a young buck.