'Splitting into two groups of 16 is inevitable for football'

[you take er!]

I def think something is needed to improve the product, make it more interesting and more attractive especially to young people. I have 3 lads aged 6, 9 and 14 all play GAA and all play soccer. They are glued to Soccer on sky sports, Match of the Day, and You Tube. It is rare that they watch any GAA games on the TV during Championship and to be honest I find it hard to sell it to them watching Tyrone and Derry yesterday would put anyone off the game and non-event on the scoreboard and a horrible spectacle to view given Tyrone's defensive shape. I use to watch and record - and re watch - every Sunday Game. Now though the GAA seem to have given in to soccer's pull. Its a ridiculous situation where the bottom 2 divisions in the league get zero coverage from RTE and eir sport. something needs to change.

[From the Bunker]

Again, the blindingly obvious reason it wouldn't be a success is because supporters have no interest in these so-called merit-based tiers and will not trek half the country to see some random match-up of counties. The Quailifers and the league have shown us this in graphic detail.

The thing people who point to Senior/Inter/Junior in hurling and club never seem to point out is that there is little to no interest by the public in the lower tiers. They may be of interest to the players and a few dozen die-hards, but that's the extent of their impact or value towards the bottom line of the GAA. I'd say in the case of hurling at least it's clear most of the competitions run at a significant deficit.

When you're talking about a level where thousands follow their team even in smaller counties it's a very different matter. The GAA doesn't run on magic beans and it's the money-spinning senior football championship that by-and-large funds those other tiers in hurling and football.

Syf, a very famous American journalist once onserved that nobody even went broke by underestimating the taste of the public. RTE's audience would watch 2 flies on a window if it was called sport and analysed at half time.
For a lot of people the GAA is the summer and they will go to matches as long as the standard is watchable and the prices are reasonable

Have to agree with Syf on this. There is no interest in the general public for a 2/3 tier competition. The crowds would be poor and many would look down their nose on such competitions. The Sunday game would give games from these tiers the usual couple of minutes coverage in the evening Highlights program. The Top tier would just get bigger and stronger as Money from Sky and various media outlets would be pumped back into the Bigger counties as reward for their achievements. So the gap would get bigger and bigger! I know Mayo won the Nicky Rackard last year and our local Hurling Club had the Cup many times. Few knew what it was and only the odd person like myself had pictures of the Kids taken with it. I know Hurling is a different Animal. As north of the Midlands there is virtually little nothing of the game played and if it is it is generally of a poor standard.

There is no quick fix of this continuous problem. I say continuous because this problem has been there since the foundation of the Gaa and more so since the intercounty scene kicked in in the 20's (?) where before this a Club represented the county. Because of the Varying sizes and populations of Counties there is always going to be an imbalance.

To properly fix a lot of these problems would probably mean amalgamations of smaller counties and Franchises to create multiple entities for larger counties like Cork and Dublin. Would the Population have an appetite for a change in traditional boundaries? I don't think so! Would a Longford/Westmeath team be happy to win a Leinster and All Ireland title as one entity? Or would they just be happy to plod along and do what they have done for the past 100+ years? For me that is the only way forward! But it is to radical and we as a GAA nation are too stuck in our traditional ways!

[mcklatchee]

The non event on the scoreboard yesterday might be addressed by the tiered championship but it won't address the spectacle on the pitch. Who thinks Tyrone versus Monaghan or Donegal would be any better in terms of men behind the ball and low risk football?

[Rossfan]

Your TV package should include a condition that for every Senior game you show you must also show an Inter and a Junior.
There's little public interest in 75% of the Qualifiers going by the 2016 attendances because most of the teams have no hope of a trophy at the end of the competition.
Senior/Inter/Junior 12/12/8 with promotion and relegation is the way to go.
August weekend to be All Ireland Finals weekend.
Saturday U17 and U20
Sunday Senior
Monday Junior and Inter.
Keep the Provincials as stand alone competitions with everybody entering them.

[armaghniac]

Anybody thinking that a USFC final would fill a stadium in Belfast at sitting prices is detached from the real world

That reflects the fact that some of the recent Ulster finalists, Monaghan and Donegal are relatively distant from Belfast. If Down and/or Armagh were any use and Tyrone were involved you'd fill the place no problem.

I'm not sure that the present structure explains why Down and Armagh are not much use, when the less populous Monaghan is stronger.

[mcklatchee]

Anybody thinking that a USFC final would fill a stadium in Belfast at sitting prices is detached from the real world

That reflects the fact that some of the recent Ulster finalists, Monaghan and Donegal are relatively distant from Belfast. If Down and/or Armagh were any use and Tyrone were involved you'd fill the place no problem.

I'm not sure that the present structure explains why Down and Armagh are not much use, when the less populous Monaghan is stronger.

Populous? Total population would lead to a very false understanding in both Down and armagh.

Monaghan are competently managed by someone who has earned their stripes, been in situ for a stable period and is prepared to reduce the game to its basic functions irrespective of what does to the long term health of the game.

There's your difference

[seafoid]

Hurling is only played seriously in 14 counties. North of a line from Galway to Dublin the only places hurling matters are Antrim and the Ards peninsula. Most football fans would not watch a hurling match. So I don't think you can compare the hurling setup with the future of football. The audience is much smaller.

Take a county like Laois right now. What kind of structure would work for them?  Donie Kingston is a fabulous player who would walk onto the Mayo team. He might only get 3 matches this year.

There are passionate supporters in all counties. How to harness that is the question.

[Zulu]

Again, the blindingly obvious reason it wouldn't be a success is because supporters have no interest in these so-called merit-based tiers and will not trek half the country to see some random match-up of counties. The Quailifers and the league have shown us this in graphic detail.

The thing people who point to Senior/Inter/Junior in hurling and club never seem to point out is that there is little to no interest by the public in the lower tiers. They may be of interest to the players and a few dozen die-hards, but that's the extent of their impact or value towards the bottom line of the GAA. I'd say in the case of hurling at least it's clear most of the competitions run at a significant deficit.

When you're talking about a level where thousands follow their team even in smaller counties it's a very different matter. The GAA doesn't run on magic beans and it's the money-spinning senior football championship that by-and-large funds those other tiers in hurling and football.

Syf, a very famous American journalist once onserved that nobody even went broke by underestimating the taste of the public. RTE's audience would watch 2 flies on a window if it was called sport and analysed at half time.
For a lot of people the GAA is the summer and they will go to matches as long as the standard is watchable and the prices are reasonable

Have to agree with Syf on this. There is no interest in the general public for a 2/3 tier competition. The crowds would be poor and many would look down their nose on such competitions. The Sunday game would give games from these tiers the usual couple of minutes coverage in the evening Highlights program. The Top tier would just get bigger and stronger as Money from Sky and various media outlets would be pumped back into the Bigger counties as reward for their achievements. So the gap would get bigger and bigger! I know Mayo won the Nicky Rackard last year and our local Hurling Club had the Cup many times. Few knew what it was and only the odd person like myself had pictures of the Kids taken with it. I know Hurling is a different Animal. As north of the Midlands there is virtually little nothing of the game played and if it is it is generally of a poor standard.

There is no quick fix of this continuous problem. I say continuous because this problem has been there since the foundation of the Gaa and more so since the intercounty scene kicked in in the 20's (?) where before this a Club represented the county. Because of the Varying sizes and populations of Counties there is always going to be an imbalance.

To properly fix a lot of these problems would probably mean amalgamations of smaller counties and Franchises to create multiple entities for larger counties like Cork and Dublin. Would the Population have an appetite for a change in traditional boundaries? I don't think so! Would a Longford/Westmeath team be happy to win a Leinster and All Ireland title as one entity? Or would they just be happy to plod along and do what they have done for the past 100+ years? For me that is the only way forward! But it is to radical and we as a GAA nation are too stuck in our traditional ways!

Personally, I think all teams have to have a shot at the All Ireland which is why I'd prefer linking the league to the championship which gives you the tiered format, a trophy all teams can aim to win, knockout football but everyone still has a chance to win Sam. Now you can debate the correct format all day but the reality is that the provincials have no place in it. Play them as stand alones if you want but they must be removed from the championship proper.

I still hear people saying Ulster is competitive when it's clearly not, the same few teams win it every year. The Ulster championship is terrible and is only marginally more competitive than the rest because it has more middling teams and no great team. It's still the best one we have though and that tells it's own tale.

We still have a great sport but the competition formats we have and the sterility of managers approach to the game is killing it as a spectacle. Like a previous poster said, I wouldn't encourage kids to watch the game anymore as it would only put them off it. Better to just to play now if you want to enjoy the game.

[Syferus]

We have a great sport being gnawed at its bones by consumerism and negative tactics. It's future is far from assured.

Zulu as usual avoids the idea of splitting his scared cow - Dublin - even though it is the county most responsible for the widening gap between counties.

[Zulu]

Would that be the Dublin beaten in the league final and narrow winners of the All Ireland after a replay against Mayo? I didn't see anyone talk about splitting Dublin on this thread anyway. Besides, that's not going to happen so unless you want to talk about a purely hypothetical scenario we may as well focus on the more realistic alternatives.

All sports are dominated by a few teams so the focus shouldn't be on weakening the strong but making the weak stronger. Kildare, Meath, Louth, Down, Wicklow, Galway, Cork, Armagh and Antrim are all performing below their capacity and despite the doom merchants around here players like Connolly, Cluxton, Brogan or Flynn are not easily replaced. Despite showing huge promise as an underage player Cormac Costello hasn't set the IC scene alight for example.

The solution isn't to split counties it's to pit counties of similar ability against each other more.

[The Trap]

There have been plenty of us warning of what was going to happen for years on here.........going down the elite (I hate that word being used in GAA) road has ruined the game.......fellas thinking they are too good for club........county supporters and sponsors who know nothing about the grassroots........and how players actually get to play for county teams........all now supported by county boards and the GAA hierarchy chasing money.......Cake Curran tried to get it across on the Sunday Game by likening the GAA to the Catholic Church........nobody listens.......the game and the GAA will never be the same........Zulu makes one good point......the game is ok to play especially at younger age groups but once you get to the elite stage of 14 up the development squads, county squads etc ruin the whole thing for the majority as they rule the roost and EvERYONE else must fall into line........can't see how this can be fixed.......in fairness this has all come at a time when the world is being ruined by money greed social media etc so it is not just a GAA problem......

[Captain Obvious]

i still hear people saying Ulster is competitive when it's clearly not, the same few teams win it every year. The Ulster championship is terrible and is only marginally more competitive than the rest because it has more middling teams and no great team. It's still the best one we have though and that tells it's own tale.

Tyrone won the Ulster championship for first time in years last year and anyone of Monaghan,Donegal,Tyrone could win Ulster this year. No other provincial has 3 teams that are capable of winning their province at this moment in time and those three teams are established division one teams and for as terrible as Ulster is as you claim sides like Fermanagh,Armagh not currently capable of winning Ulster were still able to reach the All Ireland quarter final recently  and give a very good account of themselves.

[Syferus]

Would that be the Dublin beaten in the league final and narrow winners of the All Ireland after a replay against Mayo? I didn't see anyone talk about splitting Dublin on this thread anyway. Besides, that's not going to happen so unless you want to talk about a purely hypothetical scenario we may as well focus on the more realistic alternatives.

All sports are dominated by a few teams so the focus shouldn't be on weakening the strong but making the weak stronger. Kildare, Meath, Louth, Down, Wicklow, Galway, Cork, Armagh and Antrim are all performing below their capacity and despite the doom merchants around here players like Connolly, Cluxton, Brogan or Flynn are not easily replaced. Despite showing huge promise as an underage player Cormac Costello hasn't set the IC scene alight for example.

The solution isn't to split counties it's to pit counties of similar ability against each other more.

Reservoir Dubs doesn't count, Zulu.

This all boils down to two diametrically opposed positions - you want a system that only strengthens and uplifts the few, whereas most want a system that uplifts all areas that are passionate about the sport and allows them to compete at the highest level. Sadly some don't understand that a tiered system is never going to achieve that goal. No county that is regularly playing at Inter is ever going to be any better prepared to compete at Senior if and when they make it there. The elitism of hurling being superimposed on our sport would make me lose interest in it very fast.

Amalgamation and, in the case of Dublin and Cork, splitting is preferable to a tiered system because at least the former isn't a death sentence for interest in inter-county for those unfortunate counties stuck outside the top 8 or 12.

[Zulu]

i still hear people saying Ulster is competitive when it's clearly not, the same few teams win it every year. The Ulster championship is terrible and is only marginally more competitive than the rest because it has more middling teams and no great team. It's still the best one we have though and that tells it's own tale.

Tyrone won the Ulster championship for first time in years last year and anyone of Monaghan,Donegal,Tyrone could win Ulster this year. No other provincial has 3 teams that are capable of winning their province at this moment in time and those three teams are established division one teams and for as terrible as Ulster is as you claim sides like Fermanagh,Armagh not currently capable of winning Ulster were still able to reach the All Ireland quarter final recently  and give a very good account of themselves.

Yes, there may be three potential winners but it's the same three that have been there for a decade. I accept there are more middling teams which means more can get to a QF but there are no All Ireland winners in Ulster at the moment.

[Zulu]

Would that be the Dublin beaten in the league final and narrow winners of the All Ireland after a replay against Mayo? I didn't see anyone talk about splitting Dublin on this thread anyway. Besides, that's not going to happen so unless you want to talk about a purely hypothetical scenario we may as well focus on the more realistic alternatives.

All sports are dominated by a few teams so the focus shouldn't be on weakening the strong but making the weak stronger. Kildare, Meath, Louth, Down, Wicklow, Galway, Cork, Armagh and Antrim are all performing below their capacity and despite the doom merchants around here players like Connolly, Cluxton, Brogan or Flynn are not easily replaced. Despite showing huge promise as an underage player Cormac Costello hasn't set the IC scene alight for example.

The solution isn't to split counties it's to pit counties of similar ability against each other more.

Reservoir Dubs doesn't count, Zulu.

This all boils down to two diametrically opposed positions - you want a system that only strengthens and uplifts the few, whereas most want a system that uplifts all areas that are passionate about the sport and allows them to compete at the highest level. Sadly some don't understand that a tiered system is never going to achieve that goal. No county that is regularly playing at Inter is ever going to be any better prepared to compete at Senior if and when they make it there. The elitism of hurling being superimposed on our sport would make me lose interest in it very fast.

Amalgamation and, in the case of Dublin and Cork, splitting is preferable to a tiered system because at least the former isn't a death sentence for interest in inter-county for those unfortunate counties stuck outside the top 8 or 12.

Will you please stop talking bollocks for a minute?

Amalgamations and splitting teams wouldn't be a death sentence for interest, are you bonkers? You may as well suggest our IC teams play soccer to develop the GAA as to suggest Cork and Dublin be split. So if you want to propose solutions that haven't a hope in hell in ever happening then carry on talking to yourself.

Again, I don't actually support the tiered format of junior, intermediate and senior but it's clearly a load of rubbish to suggest playing intermediate will hinder you at senior. Loads of teams at various levels have climbed the ladder to compete at the highest level. Your argument lacks any logic, why would a mid ranking team playing in the current format improve by playing and losing to the odd top team but couldn't improve by playing regular football every second week against teams they can compete against? If they are the best of that bunch then they'll be able to compete against the weaker top teams at least. There's actually so little sense to what your arguing that I could be here all day picking holes in it.