QuoteLimerick city councillors have called on the GAA to open up the Gaelic Grounds while Thomond Park undergoes a 40 million euros facelift. Councillor John Gilligan (Ind) said it would be a dreadful indictment of all the people of Ireland if Munster and Leinster secured home fixtures in the knock-out stages of the Heineken Cup and their matches had to be played abroad.
"They are good problems for rugby to have, but preferably for Munster's matches, they should be able to stay within Munster," Gilligan said. Fellow councillor Pat Kennedy (Ind) agreed with Mr. Gilligan's comments. "Every effort should be made to make sure there is an appropriate stadium here."
Mr. Kennedy said the Mayor of Limerick "should endeavour to make sure the Gaelic Grounds on the Ennis Road is made available on a special occasion. Rugby is a very universal sport and if other organisations don't acknowledge this, in the future, they could find themselves on the wrong side," he declared.
What a tosser! Obviously it would be preferable to see Leinster & Munster play their games at home (if they even get a home QF). But how is this the responsibility of the GAA!?
Surely any criticism should be aimed at the IRFU for their failure to have any contingency plans available for provincial rugby while Landsdowne and Thomond Park are closed.
But no, some people just expect that if they shout long and loud enough, those gombeens in the GAA will eventually give in.
And what's that threat about in the last line!? If the GAA don't open their ground "they could find themselves on the wrong side".
Ignorant fool who has no grasp on the reality of the situation. Neither Limerick Co Board, nor the Munster Council has the right to make any of their grounds available to rugby even if they wanted to. Fools like this guy should actually try looking into the facts before opening their gobs.
I thought they had already agreed to use Ravenhill.
Cheeky bastards. We've given a lot to the IRFU, more than was required. If they carry on with this "or else" bullshit, close the door to them in 2008!
One thing that's struck me is the exemplary attitude of the rugby people of Ireland - officials, players and supporters, in public and in private, towards the GAA in the aftermath of allowing them to use Croke Park for their internationals. They've offered nothing but appreciation and understanding - no demands, escalation, 'open it up for the Heineken Cup', 'open EnnisRoad/Thurles/Killarney' etc. That stuff is only coming from the media and bandwaggoning gobshite local politicos.
And then there's the FAI.
In fairness, it's not the IRFU who are at this 'or else' shite. This was a Limerick councillor. The IRFU have actually issued a statement saying they completely understand the GAA position and they have no intention of asking for the use of any of their grounds.
It's loudmouths like this councillor eejit, and some of the media who are driving this
Quote from: Tubberman on January 16, 2007, 04:41:24 PM
The IRFU have actually issued a statement saying they completely understand the GAA position and they have no intention of asking for the use of any of their grounds.
In that case, I retract my previous statement.
Was it not stated on the rugby show with Hook and Pope that if Munster got a home draw in the Heineken cup it would be played in munster second ground - Musgrave Park in cork, and that they deffinately wouldn't be taking it abroad. There was absolutely no mention of using any GAA facilities.
This guy is a fool but in fairness the IRFU have said nothing and haven't asked for it . No doubt this counciler has been a life long Munster fan since about last may ::)
I agree. I was watching a rugby program before Christmas (I like rugby). It was that one where Brent Pope and George Hook visited a rugby club in Tipp. They were having a discussion about rugby issues in general and someone mentioned about Ireland playing in Croker. Another panel member who looked familiar but I couldn't put a name to him said "sure why wouldn't we be allowed to play in it, didn't we pay for half of it". I did well not to put my boot through the tele. Gobshite!!
It sounds typical of the organisation skills of that setup that they decided to do up the two best rugby grounds in Ireland at the same time and leave themselves with no backup! And then you have a spoon of a politician coming out and suggesting something like this after the debate there was within the GAA to open Croker. This boy might be no fool, he knows that Limerick is a massive rugby area and to speak in the name of rugby could mean endless amounts of votes.
i was on the Yes side for the 'open up Croker' debate, but now I am firmly on the No side
It is Rugby and Soccers own fault that they have no decent grounds to accommodate their big games, and we shouldn't be facilitating them making even bigger profits from games by making the larger GAA grounds available to them to rent.
So I say: take Croke Park back after 2007 and leave them both (IRFU & FAI) swinging in the wind
Quote from: neilthemac on January 16, 2007, 04:53:26 PM
i was on the Yes side for the 'open up Croker' debate, but now I am firmly on the No side
It is Rugby and Soccers own fault that they have no decent grounds to accommodate their big games, and we shouldn't be facilitating them making even bigger profits from games by making the larger GAA grounds available to them to rent.
So I say: take Croke Park back after 2007 and leave them both (IRFU & FAI) swinging in the wind
I'm the other way round to you neilthemac
Funny that the two loudmouthed fools are both independents.
They can play in Timbuktu for all I care - egg chasing bastards the lot of them.
If they put some of their profits into grounds years ago, rather than lining their own pockets they wouldn't have this problem.
Yeah. The topic needs to be changed as well, i.e. it wasn't the Limerick Mayor who said this.
Also regarding rugby people saying, 'why wouldn't we play in Croker, we paid for half of it'. Well that might be true in a sense. There is a huge crossover in rugby and GAA supporters down here. Members of Newport RFC for example, will head to Thurles when their game is over to watch Tipp and Limerick or whatever. There are also a huge number who play both. Any Munster fan I know would also be a big Kerry/Limerick/Tipperary/ahem Offaly fan as well. So to a certain extent when they say they paid for Croker, they are right. They paid for it, along with the hundreds of thousands of other GAA followers throughout the land.
I don't think they are making a huge political statement.
three of the lads i live just presumed that munster and leinster would play in croker, when i told them that i'd be very surprised if it happened they were shocked- they think the GAA are acting disgracefully, but whats worse is the three of them would be GAA supporters first and foremost so i can only imaging all the ranting and raving that will go on in pubs all across Ireland by people who love a good old chance to bash the GAA
The problem is too many people, Gaels included, underestimated the significance of the GAA's gesture and now think its a free for all
QuoteThe problem is too many people, Gaels included, underestimated the significance of the GAA's gesture and now think its a free for all
That was always likely to be a problem haze, unless the GAA did a very good PR job and managed expectations. To the man in the street it must seem very confusing that only certain types of rugby games are acceptable, especially since there is, as I've said, a big common supporter base.
The IRFU messed up somewhat by redeveloping Thomond while Lansdowne Rd was also closed. However the point here is that the gesture will never be returned, neither Lansdowne Rd not Thomond will be built at a size that will allow GAA games be played there. The GAA suit themselves by having a policy of not allowing Rugby games, the IRFU build walls to do the same.
Quote from: haze on January 16, 2007, 05:28:01 PM
The problem is too many people, Gaels included, underestimated the significance of the GAA's gesture and now think its a free for all
nail on head.
but having said that, why only allow international competitive games? why not take the IRFU for another couple of million now the principle of allowing them in on a temporary basis has been established? A serious rugby head i work with (committee man and well known in rugby circles) maintains the IRFU just dont want the hassle of being made beg for CP and would rather go overseas than have to deal with the GAA heirarchy. And this man was genuinely grateful for the stadium initially, but the attitude has changed totally. they just have more decorum than the FAI. the prices being mentioned for stadia in Britain are a fraction of CP as well.
as for the politician, a publicity seeking non-entity. but interesting some posters decided to jump down the IRFU's neck instinctivly.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 06:53:04 PM
And this man was genuinely grateful for the stadium initially, but the attitude has changed totally.
Why would it have changed ?
Quote from: dodo on January 16, 2007, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 06:53:04 PM
And this man was genuinely grateful for the stadium initially, but the attitude has changed totally.
Why would it have changed ?
not 100% sure. He seems to feel that the GAA are lording it, not appreciating the ferocious wedge they are getting. he had a major bee in his bonnet about them being made play vids of Gaelic Games at half time. generally, they are renting the place but not in control of what happens on match day. they hand the keys of LR to the FAI and leave them to it and he feels patronised that a similar arrangement isnt in place.
he makes some valid points to be fair, but i was suprised how pissed off he was with the CP officials.
Quotehe makes some valid points to be fair, but i was suprised how pissed off he was with the CP officials.
Well if he doesn't like it he can f**k off and built his own stadium with less than 10% funding from the Government. That sort of talk sickens my hole.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
not 100% sure. He seems to feel that the GAA are lording it, not appreciating the ferocious wedge they are getting.
The rent agreed by both parties ! A ferocious wedge is a bit dramatic.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
he had a major bee in his bonnet about them being made play vids of Gaelic Games at half time. generally, they are renting the place but not in control of what happens on match day.
Playing GAA video clips at half time, had not heard of this and if true is a strange stipulation to put in place for an event that doesn't feature GAA.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
they hand the keys of LR to the FAI and leave them to it and he feels patronised that a similar arrangement isnt in place.
he makes some valid points to be fair, but i was suprised how pissed off he was with the CP officials.
Would be irresponsible to leave FAI officials keys to a locker not to mind the keys of Lansdowne Road :P .
If the GAA video clip at half time is his major gripe then things aren't too bad. If it is such a big issue then the crowd present will voice their displeasure probably forcing the GAA athorities to back down.
The bottom line to put it bluntly is that it is GAA property, regardless of how much it irks other sporting organisations. The GAA owe nothing to these organisations yet the members voted to open up the grounds temporarily. As previously stated this councillor sounds like he has spoken without knowing the difficulty in making grounds available to rugby even if there was a desire in Limerick GAA to open up the Gaelic Grounds.
Quote from: dodo on January 16, 2007, 07:50:50 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
not 100% sure. He seems to feel that the GAA are lording it, not appreciating the ferocious wedge they are getting.
The rent agreed by both parties ! A ferocious wedge is a bit dramatic.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
he had a major bee in his bonnet about them being made play vids of Gaelic Games at half time. generally, they are renting the place but not in control of what happens on match day.
Playing GAA video clips at half time, had not heard of this and if true is a strange stipulation to put in place for an event that doesn't feature GAA.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:19:48 PM
they hand the keys of LR to the FAI and leave them to it and he feels patronised that a similar arrangement isnt in place.
he makes some valid points to be fair, but i was suprised how pissed off he was with the CP officials.
Would be irresponsible to leave FAI officials keys to a locker not to mind the keys of Lansdowne Road :P .
If the GAA video clip at half time is his major gripe then things aren't too bad. If it is such a big issue then the crowd present will voice their displeasure probably forcing the GAA athorities to back down.
The bottom line to put it bluntly is that it is GAA property, regardless of how much it irks other sporting organisations. The GAA owe nothing to these organisations yet the members voted to open up the grounds temporarily. As previously stated this councillor sounds like he has spoken without knowing the difficulty in making grounds available to rugby even if there was a desire in Limerick GAA to open up the Gaelic Grounds.
Broadly agreed, but the reasons there have been no requests from the IRFU are interesting.
The very fact that phrases like 'owe nothing to these organisations' in relation to a commercial transaction to me shows there is a begrudging attitude to this. once the decision was taken, it was taken. being contrary, petty things like the half time entertainment and not allowing the FAI/IRFU to use their own stewards, first aiders etc its just childish.
How come nobody is putting presssure on Horse Racing Ireland to open up Leopardstown or Greenpark in Limerick for possible home Heineken cup quarter finals? I don't hear Indo hacks or parish pump councillors baying for the rugby lads to be let into Punchestown, even though, unlike Croke Park, the taxpayer really did pay for damn near all of it.
I think Leopardstown can hold about 30,000. All you'd have to do is take down a few railings, put away the winning post, mark out the pitch and put up goalposts and corner flags. You wouldn't even have to touch the last fence - it's over a furlong away. The only problem would be the damage the rugby might do to the surface.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:55:37 PM
The very fact that phrases like 'owe nothing to these organisations' in relation to a commercial transaction to me shows there is a begrudging attitude to this. once the decision was taken, it was taken. being contrary, petty things like the half time entertainment and not allowing the FAI/IRFU to use their own stewards, first aiders etc its just childish.
I understand your general point but why would there be a begrudging attitude to this situation ? What exactly is there to begrudge ?
The GAA members voted to open up CP, now they are begrudgers. It seems like a no win situation for the poor old GAA heads.
Quote from: dodo on January 16, 2007, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 07:55:37 PM
The very fact that phrases like 'owe nothing to these organisations' in relation to a commercial transaction to me shows there is a begrudging attitude to this. once the decision was taken, it was taken. being contrary, petty things like the half time entertainment and not allowing the FAI/IRFU to use their own stewards, first aiders etc its just childish.
I understand your general point but why would there be a begrudging attitude to this situation ? What exactly is there to begrudge ?
The GAA members voted to open up CP, now they are begrudgers. It seems like a no win situation for the poor old GAA heads.
thats not the argument being made and well you know it. do we expect concerts to show GAA highlights in between bands? boxing matches between rounds? MCD can use their own commercial partners (catering, stewards, first aiders, announcers) but not the IRFU. there are complaints ofn oneupsmanship being made about making life difficult for them. they are handing over €1,000,000 minimum a game. and they percive CP are taking the piss over little things.
thats what the man said
Quote from: Hardy on January 16, 2007, 08:02:54 PM
How come nobody is putting presssure on Horse Racing Ireland to open up Leopardstown or Greenpark in Limerick for possible home Heineken cup quarter finals? I don't hear Indo hacks or parish pump councillors baying for the rugby lads to be let into Punchestown, even though, unlike Croke Park, the taxpayer really did pay for damn near all of it.
I think Leopardstown can hold about 30,000. All you'd have to do is take down a few railings, put away the winning post, mark out the pitch and put up goalposts and corner flags. You wouldn't even have to touch the last fence - it's over a furlong away. The only problem would be the damage the rugby might do to the surface.
because the horse guys arent already renting to the FAI/IRFU....
besides the FAI in particular have extremely stringent stadia regulations to pass for international comeptive games and horse racing tracks wouldnt pass muster.
on an aside, why didnt the local GAA club object to punchestown in that case like they are with Tallaght.... :D
first of all a problem will only arise if there is a home semi-final for munster or leinster. then the game must be played in a ground with as 20,000 capacity, with landsdowne gone the irfu dont have one. ravenhill can be brought up to 19,000, surly they could fit another 1,000 in and solve the problem or european rugby can say 19,000 is enough in this once-off. alternatively there is a hugh cross over in rugby and gaa supporters in munster anyway so why not use the gaelic grounds as a once off..........
again another problem, of course there is a huge crossover... its the same in every town and club in Ireland but what gives anyone the right to just presume that the GAA should just click their fingers when the situation arises. What it could lead to is in a few years time, the local soccer/rugby pitch being unavailable for use and because of the "huge crossover" the GAA pitch next door should be used instead....
what kind of morons close their 2 biggest stadiums for repair at exactly the same time. the same kind of idiots who would close their main stadium on the prosmise of planning permission so they could embarress the GAA into giving them a free ride.
Sorry that makes us in the gaa something even worse for handing over a 'clean' stadium to them
and then as has been said there the FAI
anyone got the wording of the munster rfu statement where they say that they dont blame the GAA for not opening up their stadia to them etc etc
when I heard it I wasnt too pleased
while it looked like a statement of understanding and non blame, I thought it sounded like a platform for some of the volatile irate anti GAA members of their fraternity to crank up and start with the giving out and eventual campaigning to open croker for munster
I'd give them clones...for as long as they want..
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 08:17:00 PM
thats not the argument being made and well you know it. do we expect concerts to show GAA highlights in between bands? boxing matches between rounds? MCD can use their own commercial partners (catering, stewards, first aiders, announcers) but not the IRFU. there are complaints ofn oneupsmanship being made about making life difficult for them. they are handing over €1,000,000 minimum a game. and they percive CP are taking the piss over little things.
I only asked a question.......and you decided to not answer it. Also I have agreed with you regarding the showing of GAA videos at half-time being a bit much.
You are for some reason very inclined to carry out your 'work buddy's' arguement. It sounds a bit more like you have issues with the GAA personally jumping at every perceived flaw in the organisation.
Quote from: dodo on January 16, 2007, 09:27:23 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 08:17:00 PM
thats not the argument being made and well you know it. do we expect concerts to show GAA highlights in between bands? boxing matches between rounds? MCD can use their own commercial partners (catering, stewards, first aiders, announcers) but not the IRFU. there are complaints ofn oneupsmanship being made about making life difficult for them. they are handing over €1,000,000 minimum a game. and they percive CP are taking the piss over little things.
I only asked a question.......and you decided to not answer it. Also I have agreed with you regarding the showing of GAA videos at half-time being a bit much.
You are for some reason very inclined to carry out your 'work buddy's' arguement. It sounds a bit more like you have issues with the GAA personally jumping at every perceived flaw in the organisation.
No I'm not. He believes that use of CP is being given grudingly. Petty (as he sees them) little caveats that serve no purpose other than to remind the IRFU who is calling the shots. And he reckons they are paying over the odds to be treated shabbily.
Just passing on the mans opinion. And his counts
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 06:53:04 PM
A serious rugby head i work with (committee man and well known in rugby circles) maintains the IRFU just dont want the hassle of being made beg for CP and would rather go overseas than have to deal with the GAA heirarchy. And this man was genuinely grateful for the stadium initially, but the attitude has changed totally. they just have more decorum than the FAI. the prices being mentioned for stadia in Britain are a fraction of CP as well.
The biggest load of rubbish I've seen on here in a while. If the IRFU didn't want to bother dealing with the GAA hierachy they wouldn't bother, and would be off to Cardiff at the drop of a hat, IF IT SUITED THEM.
For you to come on with this innuendo about " a serious rugby head i work with " is rubbish quite frankly. What's this guys name, PM it to me????
The IRFU want to play in Dublin and they want to play in Croker, they are greatful to the GAA and willing to do anything requested as they don't want to rock the boat too much, they are aware they will be asking the GAA for an extension past this season. If they didn't want to bother, they wouldn't. I got this info from a serious rugby head, well known in the media as the Chief Exec of the IFRU.
Your work colleague is talking though his hole I'm afaid
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
Just passing on the mans opinion. And his counts
No , it doesn't count, the only opinion that counts is the public one. The IRFU would get unmercifully crucified if they decided to up sticks and head to the UK while Croker was open to them, regardless of any caveats imposed by the GAA. And the people whose opinion in the IRFU really count know this
Maybe the Yes camp were right. We've pissed off the egg chaser crowd and the maggots more by opening Croker than if we kept it closed. Some consolation I suppose. It galls them to have to be done a favour by us gormless culchies.
Dublinfella - give it up. Go back to foot.ie and the Cathal Dervanites.
I think their is too much reading to what a very small minority are saying . I know many leinster fans who would love to play in croke park but know it will never happen. There are idiots in every walk of life and i don't think we need to get ultra defensive every time one of them mentions Croker
Gnevin - its just that it is never ending and its pretty wearing at this stage. We changed our rules to accomodate International soccer and rugby. Are we supposed to give it to them for free and for every bloody game that they feel they might possibly need to host?
Would be more in peoples line to be asking questions about what is happening about Lansdowne.
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 16, 2007, 10:01:30 PM
Gnevin - its just that it is never ending and its pretty wearing at this stage. We changed our rules to accomodate International soccer and rugby. Are we supposed to give it to them for free and for every bloody game that they feel they might possibly need to host?
Would be more in peoples line to be asking questions about what is happening about Lansdowne.
Never ending hardly .I've heard it about 4 times in the press . If its down the pub i love hearing as i normally just tell them to f off and build their own ground i love reminding the Soccer lads how they had to sell the best pitch in ireland and best called it to Cork GAA
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
No I'm not. He believes that use of CP is being given grudingly. Petty (as he sees them) little caveats that serve no purpose other than to remind the IRFU who is calling the shots. And he reckons they are paying over the odds to be treated shabbily.
Just passing on the mans opinion. And his counts
Sound man dublinfella, thanks for being the intermediary ;).
His, yours and every opinion counts. But organisations are run democratically and the majority vote holds sway.
Again, a deal was agreed between both organisations. It sounds quite
grudging IMO that your (imaginary ? :-\) work buddy now complains of paying over the odds for CP. He should equally be annoyed in this case with the IRFU for paying over the odds !
I understand totally how people are getting annoyed by the arrogance of this councillor, and it of course makes GAA people go on the defensive, i.e. who does this dude think he is?
Still and all - I was for the opening up of Croker and the same would apply in my mind to other major grounds, including Limerick. These are big and expensive grounds that are scandously underused. Limerick has a capacity of 49,000 - the last time it had an attendance that size I reckon was the 1989 Munster Final (I think - the unveiling of the Mackey stand). When was the last time it had 40k in it - 1996 Munster Final?
And of course, Killarney, Cork, Thurles and Kilkenny are all planning extensions to already big grounds that will remain underused, whilst Clare are going to get a brand new 43k baby! Why not use our underused resources for our benefit - plenty of money to be made and there is always room for more money in the GAA, coaching grants etc.
I would love to see Munster playing at the Gaelic Grounds - would benefit Limerick, Munster, Ireland and the GAA!!
Quote from: dodo on January 16, 2007, 10:38:55 PM
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
No I'm not. He believes that use of CP is being given grudingly. Petty (as he sees them) little caveats that serve no purpose other than to remind the IRFU who is calling the shots. And he reckons they are paying over the odds to be treated shabbily.
Just passing on the mans opinion. And his counts
Sound man dublinfella, thanks for being the intermediary ;).
His, yours and every opinion counts. But organisations are run democratically and the majority vote holds sway.
Again, a deal was agreed between both organisations. It sounds quite grudging IMO that your (imaginary ? :-\) work buddy now complains of paying over the odds for CP. He should equally be annoyed in this case with the IRFU for paying over the odds !
there is a lot of paranoia on this site. he exists and if you were me would you release his name to the baying mob?
his problem isnt so much the monetary cost, but he percieves the FAI and IRFU are not (and some of the comments on this thread would back his opinion on this up) being treated as parties to a multi million euro deal. and that was one of the factors in both Munster and Leinster not even considering approaching the GAA for a similar rule change.
but he does profoundly believe that its the GAA's call who plays on their turf. but the majority did vote for the deal. so why the pettiness?
Who exactly is baying ? ::)
You say that there is pettiness? The IRFU didn't have to agree to a thing, you colleague and his opinions are not indicative of thinking at the highest level of the IRFU.
He may well have his opinions but they are not shared by the majority of those whose opinions really count, as I've already stated.
So problem solved really, your colleague is out of touch and is obviously the one who has blinkered issues when it comes to accepting the assistance of colleagues in another, more forward thinking organisation.
Thankfully those who do control policies in the IRFU have weeded out this type of individual by moving onto some meaningless committee.
You've also mentioned that this perceived pettines ( perceived by said backwoodsmen like your colleague that fester in the lower ranks of provincial IRFU branches ) is the reason the provinces are not even consdiering requesting the use of Croker ??? ;D That a ludicrous suggestion, the IRFU have prohibited any such move in that they know it would require a further rule change by the GAA at congress. They know that such a motion would not be passed in time for this year anyway, and that it could impinge on any request for further international use whilst Lansdowne is being redeveloped.
Dublad, you;re inability to grasp the very basics of this discussion is quite cute, but c'mon, away and do some research before coming on here talking rubbish.
Maybe you could point your colleague to this site and he can come on under an alias and discuss his issues here with us. It would be easier than trying to discuss it through "an intermediary" as you put it
Quote from: stephenite on January 16, 2007, 11:20:34 PM
Who exactly is baying ? ::)
You say that there is pettiness? The IRFU didn't have to agree to a thing, you colleague and his opinions are not indicative of thinking at the highest level of the IRFU.
He may well have his opinions but they are not shared by the majority of those whose opinions really count, as I've already stated.
So problem solved really, your colleague is out of touch and is obviously the one who has blinkered issues when it comes to accepting the assistance of colleagues in another, more forward thinking organisation.
Thankfully those who do control policies in the IRFU have weeded out this type of individual by moving onto some meaningless committee.
You've also mentioned that this perceived pettines ( perceived by said backwoodsmen like your colleague that fester in the lower ranks of provincial IRFU branches ) is the reason the provinces are not even consdiering requesting the use of Croker ??? ;D That a ludicrous suggestion, the IRFU have prohibited any such move in that they know it would require a further rule change by the GAA at congress. They know that such a motion would not be passed in time for this year anyway, and that it could impinge on any request for further international use whilst Lansdowne is being redeveloped.
Dublad, you;re inability to grasp the very basics of this discussion is quite cute, but c'mon, away and do some research before coming on here talking rubbish.
Maybe you could point your colleague to this site and he can come on under an alias and discuss his issues here with us. It would be easier than trying to discuss it through "an intermediary" as you put it
fester? he must be a minor player if he disagrees with you ::) grow up
the guy is unhappy, as it appears are the FAI but were blunt enough to complain in the press, about their treatment despite handing over tens of millions.
you need to relax. its not an attack. the IRFU could have approached CP for a once off for the Leinster or Munster games. But they would prefer to go to Britain. One of the factors in that is apparently that the whole thing would be such a collosal pain in their arse as is their CP experience so far.
Feel free to argue the opinion he raised before attacking him and me.
There are some pathetic responses to the opinion of a very resonable man.
Here we go, the likes of Hook etc. want it all their own way now, sure the bould George is convinced that Killarney will host the Munster bandwagon yet. If not sure won't HQ do just fine. Thin end of the wedge indeed.
Dublinfella, never did I think you'd be one of the driving forces behind a thread like this hitting the four page mark :o :o. Anyway, that aside, maybe you'd like to point out some business mathematics to your acquaintance/colleague (mate too?) who is 'high ranking in the IRFU'.
His organisation need a ground in Dublin because they are redeveloping their own ground, this will facilitate the playing of their home competitive fixtures. There is one ground in Dublin which would suit their needs, the owners of said ground (call them the 3rd little piggy, but not as generous) knowing that they have what's known in economic parlance as a 'monopoly' position, decide to drive a bargain that maximises their revenue. The rentors are (afaik) not bound to accept this deal, they can refuse, however, when their negotiators do their sums, they realise that they will be generating more income per game than ever before, or than they generate from any other venue, hence they decide to accept the deal they have been offered. Tell him that's how negotiations work, and that whilst he may feel it's a bad deal (as he's entitled too), some even higher ranking IRFU men accepted the deal (presumably because they were happy with it). Also, you should remind him, that for years now the poor FAI have been paying 15% of gross gate receipts to the IRFU for the rental of a totally inadequate stadium - so in effect one could equate the irfu with a slum landlord ;)
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: stephenite on January 16, 2007, 11:20:34 PM
Who exactly is baying ? ::)
You say that there is pettiness? The IRFU didn't have to agree to a thing, you colleague and his opinions are not indicative of thinking at the highest level of the IRFU.
He may well have his opinions but they are not shared by the majority of those whose opinions really count, as I've already stated.
So problem solved really, your colleague is out of touch and is obviously the one who has blinkered issues when it comes to accepting the assistance of colleagues in another, more forward thinking organisation.
Thankfully those who do control policies in the IRFU have weeded out this type of individual by moving onto some meaningless committee.
You've also mentioned that this perceived pettines ( perceived by said backwoodsmen like your colleague that fester in the lower ranks of provincial IRFU branches ) is the reason the provinces are not even consdiering requesting the use of Croker ??? ;D That a ludicrous suggestion, the IRFU have prohibited any such move in that they know it would require a further rule change by the GAA at congress. They know that such a motion would not be passed in time for this year anyway, and that it could impinge on any request for further international use whilst Lansdowne is being redeveloped.
Dublad, you;re inability to grasp the very basics of this discussion is quite cute, but c'mon, away and do some research before coming on here talking rubbish.
Maybe you could point your colleague to this site and he can come on under an alias and discuss his issues here with us. It would be easier than trying to discuss it through "an intermediary" as you put it
fester? he must be a minor player if he disagrees with you ::) grow up
the guy is unhappy, as it appears are the FAI but were blunt enough to complain in the press, about their treatment despite handing over tens of millions.
you need to relax. its not an attack. the IRFU could have approached CP for a once off for the Leinster or Munster games.
Feel free to argue the opinion he raised before attacking him and me.
There are some pathetic responses to the opinion of a very resonable man.
This is turning quite ridiculous. You've conveniently chosen to take the stance of a work colleague, saying that he thinks this and feels that and that the IRFU "would prefer to go to Britain. One of the factors in that is apparently that the whole thing would be such a collosal pain in their arse as is their CP experience so far ". How do you know this, let me guess, Casper again your imaginary work buddy :D. I don't want you to out Casper now or anything but to argue his opinion all night...I don't know, you just are a good friend I suppose :P.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 11:34:32 PM
fester? he must be a minor player if he disagrees with you ::) grow up
the guy is unhappy, as it appears are the FAI but were blunt enough to complain in the press, about their treatment despite handing over tens of millions.
you need to relax. its not an attack. the IRFU could have approached CP for a once off for the Leinster or Munster games. But they would prefer to go to Britain. One of the factors in that is apparently that the whole thing would be such a collosal pain in their arse as is their CP experience so far.
Feel free to argue the opinion he raised before attacking him and me.
There are some pathetic responses to the opinion of a very resonable man.
Quote
not sure why the guy is unhappy as without a stadium of their own to play in , the IRFU and FAI would certainly not make as much money as they stand to do from a locacally based larger capacity venue that has been 'leased' for a smaller fee than most GAA patrons were lead to believe they would obtain.
Financially the IRFU, FAI and indeed the GAA all benefit out of this financially.
However the PR/media have slung the mud around so much , the parties are all believing it now.
The rental of croker was set in stone last summer/autumn.
The prescribed internationals etc and thats it.
Whatever other fixtures have been assigned to the venue have gone in months ago.
If Croke park GAA HQ can facilitae additional fixtures within their calendar, then the IRFU / FAI can sound them out behind closed doors.
It possibly would make sense (financially at least) if the likes of the Gaelic grounds in Limerick were rented out for the munster game.
however the IRFU and FAI do not seem to be in any way thankful at accomodations thus far, so it is understandable that GAA patrons are relatively reluctant to offer any more grounds.
If GAA grounds are offered, then its for GAA financial gain only, there will be no deep seated gratitude.
I'd say take their money, as there will be whinging either way from these ungrateful people.
The normal fans and players of both / all three codes will be the ones that get the abuse from their peers
sad really.
Quote from: dublinfella on January 16, 2007, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: stephenite on January 16, 2007, 11:20:34 PM
Who exactly is baying ? ::)
You say that there is pettiness? The IRFU didn't have to agree to a thing, you colleague and his opinions are not indicative of thinking at the highest level of the IRFU.
He may well have his opinions but they are not shared by the majority of those whose opinions really count, as I've already stated.
So problem solved really, your colleague is out of touch and is obviously the one who has blinkered issues when it comes to accepting the assistance of colleagues in another, more forward thinking organisation.
Thankfully those who do control policies in the IRFU have weeded out this type of individual by moving onto some meaningless committee.
You've also mentioned that this perceived pettines ( perceived by said backwoodsmen like your colleague that fester in the lower ranks of provincial IRFU branches ) is the reason the provinces are not even consdiering requesting the use of Croker ??? ;D That a ludicrous suggestion, the IRFU have prohibited any such move in that they know it would require a further rule change by the GAA at congress. They know that such a motion would not be passed in time for this year anyway, and that it could impinge on any request for further international use whilst Lansdowne is being redeveloped.
Dublad, you;re inability to grasp the very basics of this discussion is quite cute, but c'mon, away and do some research before coming on here talking rubbish.
Maybe you could point your colleague to this site and he can come on under an alias and discuss his issues here with us. It would be easier than trying to discuss it through "an intermediary" as you put it
fester? he must be a minor player if he disagrees with you ::) grow up
the guy is unhappy, as it appears are the FAI but were blunt enough to complain in the press, about their treatment despite handing over tens of millions.
you need to relax. its not an attack. the IRFU could have approached CP for a once off for the Leinster or Munster games. But they would prefer to go to Britain. One of the factors in that is apparently that the whole thing would be such a collosal pain in their arse as is their CP experience so far.
Feel free to argue the opinion he raised before attacking him and me.
There are some pathetic responses to the opinion of a very resonable man.
Look, the bottom line to all this is that you are incorrect in a lot if what you and your work colleague are saying. I do not believe for one minute that he holds a position of any reponsibility in the IRFU from your description of him.
The notion of the provinces playing in Croker or any GAA grounds can only be resolved by the passing of a seperate motion at congress and this is the only reason that the IRFU are not willing to approach the GAA on thisYour colleague may feel that the GAA is being petty about certain caveats, and may feel that this is the reason the provinces will not play, but his thinking is certainly not in line with the IRFU's general thinking, publicly or privately.
You ave stated that his opinion is one that counts within the IRFU, I don't believe that for one second, maybe it did once. Thus the comment that he is now festering in some minor committee.
Like I said, point him to this forum, if he reads this thread and holds such opinons one could only presume that he would want to have his say directly
dublinfella is a shit-stirrier of the highest order.
I'm sure it gives him a great kick to see the rise hes getting out of you all.
don't encourage him.
(see the FAI thread for more examples of this).
.
it will be ironic if Munster and Leinster have to go to england to play their home quarter finals, seen as rugby would be described in some circles as a West Brit game kinda like going back to their roots really, so they will feel right t home on the mainland :D :D
Correct me if im wrong but do Munster not have to beat Leicester to get a home quarter final and Leinster are gonna play there game in ravenhill?
FFS, there is some paranoid rubbish been written on this thread...
Firstly the facts....
Munster will play their home quarter-final if they get one in Musgrave, their is no need or requirement to move anywhere else. Likewise Leinster can play in Donnybrook if they so desire but will probably play in Ravenhill.
A home semi-final has to played in a stadium with a capacity of 20K or greater and as Lansdowne is ruled out and the IRFU own no other ground with a 20K or greater capacity both Munster and Leinster have provisionally looked abroad with stadiums in Cardiff, Edinburough, London, Reading, Leiscester and Toulouse having been sounded out.
The following is a quote from Philip Browne from last October
Quote"Almost certainly such a game would have to played away. Croke Park is only available for the two internationals against France and England, and this is something that the CEOs of Munster and Leinster are well aware of and have done a fair degree of work in coming up with contingency plans."
The IRFU are not stupid and am sure that their as upset with this Mickey Mouse Counciller as some of you are. The IRFU are probably not happy with some of the arrangements but that is business and they have accepted that, their PR machine has always been positive and supportive of the GAA's stance on opening grounds.
Now as an aside my club Round Towers Kildare will be shortly be laying a new pitch and will be hopefully training out in the local rugby where the current Kildare Senior Squad Train and where the rugby club have allowed them install a GAA pitch that runs side ways accross two floodlight pitches.
Some of you posters really need to open your other eye. Tabloid culture gone mad!!!
To me, this councillor's comments, much of the press coverage, and the comments of some pro-soccer bigoted fellas on this board are all symptomatic of a trend where the gaa is regarded as some sort of semi-state body.
To these people, the GAA's property is not its own, to be used as it sees fit in furthering its aims, ie the promotion of GAELIC GAMES.
No, instead, it is the right of these opinion makers of the English tabloids, Irish independent, Fair supporters, and "the general public" to decide how the GAA uses its real estate.
In their rush to blame the GAA for the lack of soccer / rugby stadiums, surely those mouthing off should look at the real problems.
Ireland has a population of just over 5 million and can't support the number of proper stadiums that each code needs.
If Limerick had one fully covered, all seated municipal stadium, capable of hosting rugby, soccer and Gaelic games, then this row wouldn't be happening. To get such a stadium, all codes would need to contribute financially and co-operate in a civilised manner.
Most importantly, the Govt / general public would have to pay a large share.
Its perverse that the organisation that has managed to build most facilities, with marginal public assistance should be getting abuse heaped on it.
Public contribution to GAA ground development has been marginal.
These whingers will only have any valid case when the public pick up the majority of stadium development costs.
Until that time comes they should shut up, or even better go lobby the government if necessary to build civc stadiums capable of being used by all codes.
A lot of stuff on this thread is completely misleading.
FACT -GAA and IRFU have reach an agreement over Croke Pk that both parties are happy with.
FACT - Munster & Leinster have not asked to use GAA grounds for anything.
The views of some redneck independent councillor from Limerick town mean nothing in the wider scheme of things. This a non story. Dublinfella is a wind up merchant and should be ignored.
Quote from: snatter on January 17, 2007, 01:12:13 PM
To me, this councillor's comments, much of the press coverage, and the comments of some pro-soccer bigoted fellas on this board are all symptomatic of a trend where the gaa is regarded as some sort of semi-state body.
To these people, the GAA's property is not its own, to be used as it sees fit in furthering its aims, ie the promotion of GAELIC GAMES.
No, instead, it is the right of these opinion makers of the English tabloids, Irish independent, Fair supporters, and "the general public" to decide how the GAA uses its real estate.
In their rush to blame the GAA for the lack of soccer / rugby stadiums, surely those mouthing off should look at the real problems.
Ireland has a population of just over 5 million and can't support the number of proper stadiums that each code needs.
If Limerick had one fully covered, all seated municipal stadium, capable of hosting rugby, soccer and Gaelic games, then this row wouldn't be happening. To get such a stadium, all codes would need to contribute financially and co-operate in a civilised manner.
Most importantly, the Govt / general public would have to pay a large share.
Its perverse that the organisation that has managed to build most facilities, with marginal public assistance should be getting abuse heaped on it.
Public contribution to GAA ground development has been marginal.
These whingers will only have any valid case when the public pick up the majority of stadium development costs.
Until that time comes they should shut up, or even better go lobby the government if necessary to build civc stadiums capable of being used by all codes.
In all fairness the GAA is really the only organisation that needs more than one 30,000-50,000 stadium in Ireland . Leinster will have a 20,000 stadium in the RDS next year ,Munster will have a 26,000 , Ulster need improvement and Connacht are fine and the way the Eircom league is going they could play in a park soon enough
Quote from: Dinny Breen on January 17, 2007, 01:01:01 PM
FFS, there is some paranoid rubbish been written on this thread...
Firstly the facts....
Munster will play their home quarter-final if they get one in Musgrave, their is no need or requirement to move anywhere else. Likewise Leinster can play in Donnybrook if they so desire but will probably play in Ravenhill.
A home semi-final has to played in a stadium with a capacity of 20K or greater and as Lansdowne is ruled out and the IRFU own no other ground with a 20K or greater capacity both Munster and Leinster have provisionally looked abroad with stadiums in Cardiff, Edinburough, London, Reading, Leiscester and Toulouse having been sounded out.
The following is a quote from Philip Browne from last October
Quote"Almost certainly such a game would have to played away. Croke Park is only available for the two internationals against France and England, and this is something that the CEOs of Munster and Leinster are well aware of and have done a fair degree of work in coming up with contingency plans."
The IRFU are not stupid and am sure that their as upset with this Mickey Mouse Counciller as some of you are. The IRFU are probably not happy with some of the arrangements but that is business and they have accepted that, their PR machine has always been positive and supportive of the GAA's stance on opening grounds.
Now as an aside my club Round Towers Kildare will be shortly be laying a new pitch and will be hopefully training out in the local rugby where the current Kildare Senior Squad Train and where the rugby club have allowed them install a GAA pitch that runs side ways accross two floodlight pitches.
Some of you posters really need to open your other eye. Tabloid culture gone mad!!!
thats wonderful coexistence and coperation Dinny
but I dont think the GAA rules allow the reverse of this scenario...
Quotebut I dont think the GAA rules allow the reverse of this scenario...
does that make it right?
If someone suggested that the rule be changed whereby any club or county could rent out their ground where they felt it made economic sense (subject to sign-off by HQ to ensure its not been given away, it doesnt interefe with a GAA game, and the pitch can take it), that someone woud get widespread abuse on this forum. Why exactly, I'm not sure. Rugby or soccer don't seem to die when they share their grounds with each other and with us.
Likewise I cannot see the downside of allowing Munster play in the Gaelic Grounds, with Limerick GAA taking a big chunk of rent. The game will take place either way. Its not going to make Munster any more popular than they already are.
Quotebut I dont think the GAA rules allow the reverse of this scenario..
Which is perfectable acceptable as the GAA is a democratric organisation and the rules were brought in for a purpose. But I believe it's time to move on and like Hound I believe each club should be allowed examine and decide by itself. The rugby below will obviously benefit finacially from the Kildare Team but they have offered more or less free of charge to Towers. This will be debated within the club but ultimately it is the club who decides if we can train on a rugby ground because thank there isn't a GAA rule that prevents this.
Too much time is spent worrying about other sports and what they're trying to get out of the GAA, people should have more condifence in their games and just concentrate on ensuring our own house is in order.
I honestly believe some posters here prefer schadenfreude in other sports than actually enjoying and being proud of their own.
You know, if some mouthpieces in the media didn't continually bleat on about what they are 'entitled' to, and what the GAA should and shouldn't do, I honestly feel they'd have more traction within the GAA for what they want. As I've said before, most GAA members are at least supporters, if not members, of other sporting organisations. It's natural to co-operate across such a wide common support/membership.
But my back, and I count myself liberal, gets up every time Cathal Dervan or Floppy Deleany or their ilk start trying to apply meeja pressure to the GAA.
Quote from: Hound on January 17, 2007, 02:04:56 PM
Likewise I cannot see the downside of allowing Munster play in the Gaelic Grounds, with Limerick GAA taking a big chunk of rent. The game will take place either way. Its not going to make Munster any more popular than they already are.
I cannot see the downside of it either, my point ws that this cannot happen without another motion being passed at congress. Something that will not happen in time for a Heineken Cup semifinal should Munster or Leinster make it that far this year
Something just off the topic here. It has been said in the media that UEFA would like to play the Champions League Final in CP.
Now my question is Could the GAA organise this themselves with UEFA (just like hosting a rock concert) or would the FAI have to be involved?
Quote from: Blue06 on January 17, 2007, 10:31:33 PM
Something just off the topic here. It has been said in the media that UEFA would like to play the Champions League Final in CP.
Now my question is Could the GAA organise this themselves with UEFA (just like hosting a rock concert) or would the FAI have to be involved?
Whatever about what the GAA or the FAI might decide in the future, there is
no chance of UEFA ever picking Croke Park to host a Champions League final, while the Hill is a terrace. Terraces or temporary bucket seats would not be acceptable to UEFA for the showpiece event of European club soccer.
If Lansdowne Road ever gets built it would have a strong chance of hosting a UEFA Cup final and an outside chance of a CL final.
Back on topic, Keith Wood has said he'd love to see Munster and Leinster playing in Croke Park! The media in the next couple of weeks is going to be full of this. The QFs might not be too bad as at least they have Musgrave Pk and Ravenhill as options. If either gets a home semi-final draw though it'll build hugely, and I can only imagine what it will be like if they draw each other in the semi-finals....
Great fun!
Sure, lets all be pally together and share and share alike. Sure aren't we all sports people at the end of the day. while we're at it, lets broaden the thing out a bit:
FF/FG/Labour /The PDs make their offices available to the Shinners and any other political rival whos a bit short on space (only when they're not using them of course)
Croke Park provide a bit of space to ease the FAI pressure at Merrion Square ... anybody else out there short of an office or two?
RTE's Premiership and all other soccer programmes make a prime slot available for the GAA
Likewise re rugby
When we're at it, try to make Sky do the same
No more messing re Tallaght, it takes GAA, full-stop
Redesign the new Landsdown , if it ever happens, to do the same
RTE makes their studios and other assets available to any other existing or would be tv outfits out there
Ryanair does the same for their competitor airlines
Irish Times lets the Independent, An Poblacht and anybody else who's interested use their facilities (for a price of course and only when they're not using them)
Stick a couple of GAA pitches in front of the stands at the Curragh, Galway etc
The big global sports, soccer and rugby, shares their cash goodies with us poor relations
When my pig flies it shares the trip with your pig
What was that line about catering for everything and standing for nothing?
One thing on all of this, has anything been bulldozed yet at Lansdowne? ? If not why not use that for any home semi finals?
Also, by the sounds coming from the French rugby clubs, this could be the last year for big matches for any of our provinces!
QuoteOne thing on all of this, has anything been bulldozed yet at Lansdowne? ? If not why not use that for any home semi finals?
thats the most sensible suggestion I've heard all day. Even if work had started then surely demolition could start at one end of Lansdowne in any case, allowing a capacity of 25,000 or so, which would be ideal.
Don't be coming up with suggestions like that. We can't bash those muckers in the GAA with them.
I'm just imagining the fury here if the IRFU decided to open Lansdowne for a game now, given that the Croke Park dispensation is conditional on Lansdowne being closed. It'd makes sense though, if the Health and Safety people were happy.
In any case, it's no concern of mine where they play the games, apart from wishing we could take advantage of the revenue opportunity, not just in Dublin, but all around the country. But that's for another campaign, when the dust has settled after the initial desecration of the sod and the 'no' people notice that the sky hasn't fallen in, that the revenue is very nice and that the other major field sports are like arab nomads - plenty of money, but nowhere to live - while we have an embarrassment of luxury accommodation lying idle during the height of their season, that we refuse to exploit properly because of either an outdated ideology or introversion, fear and lack of confidence.
Does anyone find it slightly nerving that someone from Stab City comes out with something sounding like a threat with "or else"? :o
Quote from: snatter on January 17, 2007, 01:12:13 PM
To me, this councillor's comments, much of the press coverage, and the comments of some pro-soccer bigoted fellas on this board are all symptomatic of a trend where the gaa is regarded as some sort of semi-state body.
To these people, the GAA's property is not its own, to be used as it sees fit in furthering its aims, ie the promotion of GAELIC GAMES.
No, instead, it is the right of these opinion makers of the English tabloids, Irish independent, Fair supporters, and "the general public" to decide how the GAA uses its real estate.
In their rush to blame the GAA for the lack of soccer / rugby stadiums, surely those mouthing off should look at the real problems.
Ireland has a population of just over 5 million and can't support the number of proper stadiums that each code needs.
If Limerick had one fully covered, all seated municipal stadium, capable of hosting rugby, soccer and Gaelic games, then this row wouldn't be happening. To get such a stadium, all codes would need to contribute financially and co-operate in a civilised manner.
Most importantly, the Govt / general public would have to pay a large share.
Its perverse that the organisation that has managed to build most facilities, with marginal public assistance should be getting abuse heaped on it.
Public contribution to GAA ground development has been marginal.
These whingers will only have any valid case when the public pick up the majority of stadium development costs.
Until that time comes they should shut up, or even better go lobby the government if necessary to build civc stadiums capable of being used by all codes.
so you will happily share their grounds but not allow them to share ours?
interesting the line (which I agree with)
all codes would need to contribute financially and co-operate in a civilised manner. Ie the opposite of the GAA's semi official stance on LR and Tallaght?
We cant as an association complain that some people expect us to allow other sports into gaelic gronds that have, and lets be real here snatter, in many cases recieved much more than marginal financial support (Pearse stadium in Galway got a higher % public funding than tallaght will, and the council are retaining ownership of it), while going to the courts demanding access to other codes grounds. its having our cake and eating it too. we either embrace ground sharing or we dont. its not as simple as opening CP and getting abuse for it.
and I love the fact that I report my surprise at the attitude change towords the GAA of a rugby man that he and some others in the moid ranks of the IRFU are unhappy with some aspects of their treatment, as it appears are the FAI, and Im on a wind up, invented the whole story etc. its the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ear and going LALALALA. as was mentioned earlier, there is a propensity from some on this site for schadenfreude and attacking all and anything they disagree with total irrationality. and of course because i mentioned this i agree with it ::)