Eamonn Fitz. Not up to his ratings?

[Nihilist]

After watching yesterdays final I think Eamonn Fitzmaurice's ratings have plummeted. Pat Spillane defended him big time but his decision making on the line was bizarre. For instance...

1: He took off both Geaney and O'Donoghue who were the only 2 forwards I remember to score from play for Kerry.
2: He could and probably should have started Donaghy or at least left O'Donoghue on beside him.  Wet day may not have suited Donaghy but the conditions didn't suit defenders either.
3: What exactly was Colm Cooper's role ? A day later and I still can't figure it out. He ended up defending half the time.
4: Sacrificing your star midfielder for a player who retired some years ago. Bizarre decision unless he was injured and even then had Kerry no one else except a guy over the hill? Didn't show a lot of faith in the younger panel.
5: What was the row between himself and Diarmuid Murphy?
6: All of the subs were for guys who arguably are past their peak. Sheehan, Donaghy, O'Sullivan and Galvin. Looked like he was giving them one last run out in Croke Park. Did he not take the final seriously?

If this was Mayo he would be lynched in the media and online. Personally I thought he was lucky last year.

Was he found out this year?

[ashman]

After watching yesterdays final I think Eamonn Fitzmaurice's ratings have plummeted. Pat Spillane defended him big time but his decision making on the line was bizarre. For instance...

1: He took off both Geaney and O'Donoghue who were the only 2 forwards I remember to score from play for Kerry.
2: He could and probably should have started Donaghy or at least left O'Donoghue on beside him.  Wet day may not have suited Donaghy but the conditions didn't suit defenders either.
3: What exactly was Colm Cooper's role ? A day later and I still can't figure it out. He ended up defending half the time.
4: Sacrificing your star midfielder for a player who retired some years ago. Bizarre decision unless he was injured and even then had Kerry no one else except a guy over the hill? Didn't show a lot of faith in the younger panel.
5: What was the row between himself and Diarmuid Murphy?
6: All of the subs were for guys who arguably are past their peak. Sheehan, Donaghy, O'Sullivan and Galvin. Looked like he was giving them one last run out in Croke Park. Did he not take the final seriously?

If this was Mayo he would be lynched in the media and online. Personally I thought he was lucky last year.

Was he found out this year?

To be fair to fitz maurice he got an awful lot out of that team which are not a particularly brilliant bunch.  He made a lot of mistakes yesterday but regardless dublin were the stronger and pacier team.

David Moran has been off the pace this year.  The relative lack of underage success over last decade is showing.  Interesting to see how they do at u21 the next few years .

[macdanger2]

Is the role of the manager overhyped?? There seems to be a "cult" of the manager being built up in a lot of cases but how many of these tactical coups are just a case of getting lucky? Fair enough, preparation for big game and pre-planned strategies (e.g. McMahon going forward yesterday and in the replay) are worked out by the management team in advance but very often during the match, it's things outside the manager's control that really decide the game.

Donaghy being sent on with 5 minutes to go in the SF last year won the All Ireland for Kerry. It turned out to be an inspired move but it looked like deperation at the time.

Donegal beating Dublin last year was hailed as a tactical masterclass from McGuinness but if Dublin had taken a couple of early goal chances, they would have been out the gate.

Dublin were floundering against Mayo after 50 minutes until a stray shot from Fenton was brilliantly diverted by BB, I don't think Gavin had any massive impact on the game at that point.

McMenaman being sent on against Kerry and scoring crucial goals, not exactly rocket science

[AZOffaly]

Players win games, not managers. However Managers have to put the right players in the right positions to give them a chance to go and do their thing.

McMahon bombing on yesterday and pulling Gooch with him was under instruction.
Gooch not being taken off him was also down to a management call.

[Zulu]

Is the role of the manager overhyped??

Absolutely, a team can't lose a game without a manager being 'tactically exposed', there is an awful lot you can't control and the team with the better players will win more often than not. I thought some of the substitutions were odd yesterday but I didn't see any major tactically issue for Kerry the same as there wasn't anything major with Mayo against Dublin.

McMahon bombing on yesterday and pulling Gooch with him was under instruction.
Gooch not being taken off him was also down to a management call.

But McMahon always pushes up into the attack and I don't think you can move a forward off a defender if the opposition want the defender to stay marking him. There was no place Kerry could have moved Cooper to that McMahon wouldn't have been happy to follow.

[AZOffaly]

No but you can 'pass' him off when he goes forward. Say Johnny Buckley, if McMahon bombs on, Gooch will call you onto McMahon, and you take him.

[screenexile]

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is a good manager and one loss doesn't change that.

After the semi final last year Gavin got lambasted for his teams tactics against Donegal but he learned from it . . . I'm sure Fitzmaurice will do the same!

[Esmarelda]

Is the role of the manager overhyped?? There seems to be a "cult" of the manager being built up in a lot of cases but how many of these tactical coups are just a case of getting lucky? Fair enough, preparation for big game and pre-planned strategies (e.g. McMahon going forward yesterday and in the replay) are worked out by the management team in advance but very often during the match, it's things outside the manager's control that really decide the game.

Donaghy being sent on with 5 minutes to go in the SF last year won the All Ireland for Kerry. It turned out to be an inspired move but it looked like deperation at the time.

Donegal beating Dublin last year was hailed as a tactical masterclass from McGuinness but if Dublin had taken a couple of early goal chances, they would have been out the gate.

Dublin were floundering against Mayo after 50 minutes until a stray shot from Fenton was brilliantly diverted by BB, I don't think Gavin had any massive impact on the game at that point.

McMenaman being sent on against Kerry and scoring crucial goals, not exactly rocket science

I'm finding myself agreeing with you a lot lately macdanger2.

I suppose it's a mixed bag. As the cliche goes, you need a luck on your side but I do think the managers have a critical job in putting the plan in place and convincing the 20 odd men involved to follow orders.

From the opening piece, I'm not sure of the relevance of what Fitzmaurice and Murphy were saying is. It was a ten second exchange that happened to be caught on camera.

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, it was just a bad day at the office all around, and as others have said, players lost individual battles.

[Zulu]

Sorry AZ I get you now, though to be fair that's easier said than done. The fundamental issue though is there is not always tactical solutions to the problems your team face and there is still a large element of individuals winning their own battles. Kerry lost so many yesterday that there was little the management could have done to make any material difference.

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, I agree. That's what I'm saying. You have a plan, based on how you play, and how you want to play this opponent. Then you have a plan B ideally, at least. The players all understand it, and you practice and coach it.

Then when the game starts, you can only do so much. The players win the games, the manager just tries to put them in the positions to do so, and if they are being beaten in their own battles, or not doing their jobs, you can't really do much except try a few switches.

[INDIANA]

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is a good manager and one loss doesn't change that.

After the semi final last year Gavin got lambasted for his teams tactics against Donegal but he learned from it . . . I'm sure Fitzmaurice will do the same!

He's a good manager but that Kerry team is in decline.

Made a bad mistake bringing Galvin back. At that level of football you don't take a year out in your 30's.

Half forward line were awful yesterday and he waited far too long to change it.

He left Cooper on when his form didn't merit it.

Tactically the long ball into Geaney was a disaster as he's unsuited to it.

[AZOffaly]

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is a good manager and one loss doesn't change that.

After the semi final last year Gavin got lambasted for his teams tactics against Donegal but he learned from it . . . I'm sure Fitzmaurice will do the same!

He's a good manager but that Kerry team is in decline.

Made a bad mistake bringing Galvin back. At that level of football you don't take a year out in your 30's.

Half forward line were awful yesterday and he waited far too long to change it.

He left Cooper on when his form didn't merit it.

Tactically the long ball into Geaney was a disaster as he's unsuited to it.

Agree with most of that, apart from the last line. Geaney is actually a very good primary ball winner, but yesterday was going to be very hard to make anything stick. I thought they should have brought Donaghy in earlier, and tried to cause havoc with the slippy ball breaking and have Geaney and O'Donoghue trying to sweep up, old-school style.

Johnny Buckley contributed nothing. Donnacha Walsh very little. Gooch nothing in that role. Galvin coming on was very strange.

A forward line of

O'Brien    Gooch     Darren O'Sullivan

Geaney    Donaghy    O'Donoghue

would, I think, have caused Dublin problems, even in those conditions.

[INDIANA]

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is a good manager and one loss doesn't change that.

After the semi final last year Gavin got lambasted for his teams tactics against Donegal but he learned from it . . . I'm sure Fitzmaurice will do the same!

He's a good manager but that Kerry team is in decline.

Made a bad mistake bringing Galvin back. At that level of football you don't take a year out in your 30's.

Half forward line were awful yesterday and he waited far too long to change it.

He left Cooper on when his form didn't merit it.

Tactically the long ball into Geaney was a disaster as he's unsuited to it.

Agree with most of that, apart from the last line. Geaney is actually a very good primary ball winner, but yesterday was going to be very hard to make anything stick. I thought they should have brought Donaghy in earlier, and tried to cause havoc with the slippy ball breaking and have Geaney and O'Donoghue trying to sweep up, old-school style.

Johnny Buckley contributed nothing. Donnacha Walsh very little. Gooch nothing in that role. Galvin coming on was very strange.

A forward line of

O'Brien    Gooch     Darren O'Sullivan

Geaney    Donaghy    O'Donoghue

would, I think, have caused Dublin problems, even in those conditions.

Gooch may be done I'm afraid. It was a desperately bad knee injury he suffered. Doesn't seem to have the gas anymore.

JOD is just not a good enough winner of primary possession for a forward of his reputation. He needs to improve on that to join the elite forwards out there.

Defensively Kerry did quite well overall. Held Connolly and B Brogan very well.

from moran up outside Anthony Maher they had an absolute nightmare

[brianboru00]

After watching yesterdays final I think Eamonn Fitzmaurice's ratings have plummeted. Pat Spillane defended him big time but his decision making on the line was bizarre. For instance...

1: He took off both Geaney and O'Donoghue who were the only 2 forwards I remember to score from play for Kerry.
2: He could and probably should have started Donaghy or at least left O'Donoghue on beside him.  Wet day may not have suited Donaghy but the conditions didn't suit defenders either.
3: What exactly was Colm Cooper's role ? A day later and I still can't figure it out. He ended up defending half the time.
4: Sacrificing your star midfielder for a player who retired some years ago. Bizarre decision unless he was injured and even then had Kerry no one else except a guy over the hill? Didn't show a lot of faith in the younger panel.
5: What was the row between himself and Diarmuid Murphy?
6: All of the subs were for guys who arguably are past their peak. Sheehan, Donaghy, O'Sullivan and Galvin. Looked like he was giving them one last run out in Croke Park. Did he not take the final seriously?

If this was Mayo he would be lynched in the media and online. Personally I thought he was lucky last year.

Was he found out this year?

#1 - Donoghue was very poor and entitled to be taken off well before he was. Geaney likewise.
#2 Easy say that now
#3 Fully agree- last ten minutes and at one stage he was in the corner back position - think he should have been moved inside.
#4 Moran was only fair to middling yesterday and got caught in posession a couple of times. If Galvin is on the panel at all then surely he's entitled to be brought in - think the day suited him.
#6 Think thats a very unfair point. 2 points down on a soggy day in the All Ireland final against the Dubs in Croke Park - not a place to introduce youngsters.
I think he should have brought in Galvin and Donaghy earlier if anything.

The day did not suit good footballers with all due respect to the Dubs - Kerry have the more natural fooballers and I think they would have won it on a dryish day. Dublin were all over Kerry and still only won by three. If they had snuck a goal  in the end I think it would have been a role reversal of the 2011 final when Kerry were coasting until an error in the last few minutes.