Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
54 (49.1%)
No
48 (43.6%)
Undecided
8 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 110

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 7526 times)

stevecw

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #195 on: July 19, 2017, 12:52:20 AM »
Sadly that just won't happen. It'll end up like the hurling Christy Ring...1st year out it was live on before an AI semi final...then it fell away and ended up 1 year played on a saturday night in tullamore, with 3 mins highlights on Sunday game.
Different levels are needed in hurling, as the gaps in standard all along the way are massive. So that is necessary but needs to be worked on.

In Football it's not the same at all, there's the top 3/4 after that then maybe another few that might compete with them on a good day. But we have proven that even one of the worst teams in Div 4 can be level with Monaghan with 5 mins to go, and we held Dublin to 4 points with 20 mins to go, until we lost our best player to a red card. This year we have proved that any team with a decent structure and intelligent gameplan plus obviously a good committed group of players can compete with even the best.
They are already planning to give it a go again next year, hoping to avoid Dublin in the draw and looking at potential Leinster final.

A B championship in any name will always be a lesser tournament and players won't commit, fans won't go. Nobody will care, no matter what it's called. I'd rather have an occasion like we had on Saturday ahead of winning any made up stupid Kevin Heffernan Cup by beating Leitrim or someone in the final in front of about 100 people.

Syferus

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #196 on: July 19, 2017, 02:02:32 AM »
The Carlow manager comes across as some chancer in fairness. I thought Carew was a bluff machine but he's taken the biscuit this year.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 10:55:20 AM by Syferus »

stevecw

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #197 on: July 19, 2017, 03:00:01 AM »
The Caroiw manager comes across as some chancer in fairness. I thought Carew was a bluff machine but he's taken the biscuit this year.

In what way? I'd try to explain all that he has done to improve Carlow, but trying to get yourself to try and talk sense is probably hard to do when you can't even spell Carlow at this stage.

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #198 on: July 19, 2017, 03:02:02 AM »
I think Turlough O Brien is very impressive
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

Owenmoresider

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #199 on: July 19, 2017, 10:02:00 AM »
The Caroiw manager comes across as some chancer in fairness. I thought Carew was a bluff machine but he's taken the biscuit this year.
Carew is surely a bluff machine. At least O'Brien has given Carlow supporters something to remember, Carew gave us national humiliation and stagnation otherwise. And self-serving guff in the Champion.

sligoman2

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #200 on: August 10, 2017, 01:01:40 PM »
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274218

Interesting article in Hoganstand.  Very valid and disturbing point about the margin of victories in the quarter finals....
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #201 on: August 10, 2017, 01:39:40 PM »
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=274218

Interesting article in Hoganstand.  Very valid and disturbing point about the margin of victories in the quarter finals....

Sure that's bollox. If you're taking the quarter finals as proof that we need tiered championships, Tier one would basically be the 4 semi finalists. I made this point months ago when this was raised. If we are trying to avoid heavy beatings, then the only solution is to separate the top 3 or 4 teams in Tier one, and you could have 5 or 6 tiers by the time you finished.

A tiered championship is mostly championed by media as far as I can see, and it's to avoid covering Carlow and the likes as they have the temerity to take a weekend in the summer away from the big guns facing each other. The problem, the real problem, is that the big guns are separating from the pack, in a very small and exclusive bunch, and no amount of restructuring fixtures will change that.

The Super 8s will go some way towards giving the media what they want, as you will theoretically have the top 8 playing each other in 12 matches. However, if the formline from last weekend held, and you had 2 or 3 blowouts in each group, and a dead rubber or two, you'll see support for that fading away as well.

Helping, and enabling, all counties to make the most of their resources, without quite deliberately making it harder for them to improve by disproportionate financial support to other counties, is the best way of improving standards, and competitiveness. Making monsters, and then wondering why they are eating everyone, is daft.

Esmarelda

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #202 on: August 10, 2017, 02:33:52 PM »
Beautifully put AZ.

Was Fitzsimons thinking this after the Mayo v Roscommon draw but decided to hold on to get a full hand of hammerings.

If he's thinking it for a year and a half why didn't he say it when Tipp reached the SF last year.

More of the same from a different mouth.

LeoMc

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #203 on: August 10, 2017, 02:46:11 PM »
Two 16 team championships. Straight knock out. No back door.
8 teams beaten in round 1 (senior) play off. Bottom 4 drop to the second tier the next year.
4 Semi-finalists in the second tier move up to Senior the following year.
8 teams beaten in round 1 (2nd tier) play off for a 3rd tier trophy if there is a need to ensure everyone gets a minimum of 2 games.

No seeding, no links to the league. Win 2 games and you play with the big boys the following year. Lose 2 and you go back down.

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #204 on: August 10, 2017, 03:24:48 PM »
No Provincials?
No point to second tier Semis and Final
How do you decide top 16?
What's in it for Leitrim?
34 Championship games instead if 60 approx.
Home and away or Neutral venues?
2017 Double Connacht Champions

twohands!!!

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #205 on: August 10, 2017, 05:56:26 PM »
Yet another individual involved in the day-in-day-out business of being a bottom-tier footballing county team calling for change.

AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #206 on: August 10, 2017, 11:17:21 PM »
Yet another individual involved in the day-in-day-out business of being a bottom-tier footballing county team calling for change.

Yet another? As far as I'm aware there was a survey there recently of div 4 type managers and all of them mentioned change but i believe only one of them called for tiers. It actually may have been this lad.

LeoMc

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #207 on: August 11, 2017, 11:32:20 AM »
No Provincials? Correct, they are part of the current imbalance.
No point to second tier Semis and Final. When you have played and won two why not go on try to win 2 more to get some silverware, even if it is only an intermediate championship?
How do you decide top 16? League for the first initial line in the san. Then purely previous championship performance.
What's in it for Leitrim? About as much as they get now. There is a chance that once every 60 years they might make an all-Ireland intermediate final.
34 Championship games instead if 60 approx. More time for club football.
Home and away or Neutral venues? Neutral after the first round.


Lone Shark

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #208 on: August 11, 2017, 03:46:49 PM »
Yet another individual involved in the day-in-day-out business of being a bottom-tier footballing county team calling for change.

Yet another? As far as I'm aware there was a survey there recently of div 4 type managers and all of them mentioned change but i believe only one of them called for tiers. It actually may have been this lad.

Exactly. There's been no shortage of media heads, and pundits from Dublin, Kerry or Mayo calling for tiers, but I haven't heard anyone who actually would be cut adrift actually looking for this sort of a system. Fitzsimons' comments are pretty much the first ones that I would take seriously, because he's speaking on behalf of a county that would be cut off into the reincarnated Tommy Murphy cup.

twohands!!!

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #209 on: August 12, 2017, 07:39:02 PM »
Yet another individual involved in the day-in-day-out business of being a bottom-tier footballing county team calling for change.

Yet another? As far as I'm aware there was a survey there recently of div 4 type managers and all of them mentioned change but i believe only one of them called for tiers. It actually may have been this lad.

Exactly. There's been no shortage of media heads, and pundits from Dublin, Kerry or Mayo calling for tiers, but I haven't heard anyone who actually would be cut adrift actually looking for this sort of a system. Fitzsimons' comments are pretty much the first ones that I would take seriously, because he's speaking on behalf of a county that would be cut off into the reincarnated Tommy Murphy cup.

Waterford manager Tom McGlinchey and London manager Ciaran Deely from earlier on in the year.

http://www.the42.ie/tom-mcglinchey-waterford-2-3407747-May2017/

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0530/879042-london-boss-deely-wants-a-second-tier-competition/