Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
54 (49.1%)
No
48 (43.6%)
Undecided
8 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 110

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 7527 times)

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #180 on: July 15, 2017, 05:47:54 AM »
If we're not good enough for Senior.......
We are this year though 8)
So "just winning the AI" is just a nuisance thing?
Sure why have competition at all? Why keep scores? Why does the team who scores most go on to another round? Why have cups and medals?

The underdog stories like Down,Roscommon winning against the odds v Monaghan,Galway this summer or Tipp reaching AI semi final last year is what is makes this competition a bit special. Look at any cup competitions across the world, the top teams more often or not will win them but its the underdog stories that will last a lifetime e.g non or lower league team in England causing a few upsets in the FA Cup.

Exactly and the memories Tipp players and supporters got from winning last years All Ireland quarter final is something they will never forget while in comparison winning a B competition will be quickly forgotten.
That is a value judgement.
Is winning the Pro 12 a joke ?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBALg4xBWXQ
Or would it be better to lose valiantly in the pool group of TAFKA Heineken cup?

I don't know what your point is. The pro 12 is not a B competition.
It effectively is. How many English and French clubs does it have ?

I don't think you understand how rugby is structured very well.
I don't know if you understand how money works
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

criostlinn

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #181 on: July 15, 2017, 09:59:44 AM »
If we're not good enough for Senior.......
We are this year though 8)
So "just winning the AI" is just a nuisance thing?
Sure why have competition at all? Why keep scores? Why does the team who scores most go on to another round? Why have cups and medals?

The underdog stories like Down,Roscommon winning against the odds v Monaghan,Galway this summer or Tipp reaching AI semi final last year is what is makes this competition a bit special. Look at any cup competitions across the world, the top teams more often or not will win them but its the underdog stories that will last a lifetime e.g non or lower league team in England causing a few upsets in the FA Cup.

Exactly and the memories Tipp players and supporters got from winning last years All Ireland quarter final is something they will never forget while in comparison winning a B competition will be quickly forgotten.
That is a value judgement.
Is winning the Pro 12 a joke ?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBALg4xBWXQ
Or would it be better to lose valiantly in the pool group of TAFKA Heineken cup?

I don't know what your point is. The pro 12 is not a B competition.
It effectively is. How many English and French clubs does it have ?

Ok you have me totally lost. Why would English and French teams be in a competition for teams from Ireland, Scotland Wales and Italy. Does this make the English Premiership or French Super 12 also B competitions. Where does it stop. Are you suggesting in Soccer the  Premiership or La Liga are B competitions because they don't have all the top sides from Europe.

If you're looking at it like that then we already have B championships. The Connacht or Ulster Championship doesn't involve Kerry or Dublin.

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #182 on: July 15, 2017, 11:09:52 AM »
We'll have 5 B Championships next year
Connacht, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Qualifiers
All feed into the A Championship a.k.a "Super 8" or top 8 or Big 8.
Some Counties ( small,inept, hurling) will be finished around the 1st week of June.
Very hard to develop a team if you have a 4 month season.
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Jell 0 Biafra

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #183 on: July 15, 2017, 01:25:44 PM »
Play the provincials and Sam in the winter, league in the summer.  Everyone enters Sam; provincials with local rivalries remain.  Everyone knows how long their summer season is, and more games between teams of similar levels in summer.

Esmarelda

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #184 on: July 15, 2017, 02:42:00 PM »
We'll have 5 B Championships next year
Connacht, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Qualifiers
All feed into the A Championship a.k.a "Super 8" or top 8 or Big 8.
Some Counties ( small,inept, hurling) will be finished around the 1st week of June.
Very hard to develop a team if you have a 4 month season.
Four? What teams start out in the first week of February?

And think of the benefits to the club scene in those counties having the whole summer to play games. Please some of the people and all that.

Rossfan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #185 on: July 15, 2017, 03:00:51 PM »
Will the June/July semi pro American circus be abolished?
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Syferus

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #186 on: July 15, 2017, 03:32:39 PM »
Will the June/July semi pro American circus be abolished?

Do you think that's going to stop college lads going on J1s? Daft buck.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:10:43 AM by Syferus »

armaghniac

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #187 on: July 15, 2017, 04:41:10 PM »
No wish to stop people going on J1s and it is good that they play GAA, but each US team should only be allowed play one or two imports.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #188 on: July 16, 2017, 06:44:05 AM »
After all the huffing and puffing there is only one Division 3 team in the last 12,  namely Armagh . And Armagh is hardly a disadvantaged county football-wise.
The qualifiers favour the bigger teams.
It is great to see Carlow getting a run but for every Carlow there are maybe 10 counties who did nothing. Such as Laois.

The top table is a closed shop. Outside of Ulster nobody has broken into it since Offaly 50 years ago. It is not easy to see how to fix it, especially given that everyone wants to be in the same competition.

"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

macdanger2

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #189 on: July 16, 2017, 09:30:19 AM »
After all the huffing and puffing there is only one Division 3 team in the last 12,  namely Armagh . And Armagh is hardly a disadvantaged county football-wise.
The qualifiers favour the bigger teams.
It is great to see Carlow getting a run but for every Carlow there are maybe 10 counties who did nothing. Such as Laois.

The top table is a closed shop. Outside of Ulster nobody has broken into it since Offaly 50 years ago. It is not easy to see how to fix it, especially given that everyone wants to be in the same competition.

No amount of championship restructuring is going to improve standards, investment in coaching and team preparation is all that will do that.

Syferus

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #190 on: July 16, 2017, 11:08:15 AM »
No wish to stop people going on J1s and it is good that they play GAA, but each US team should only be allowed play one or two imports.

No they shouldn't.

seafoid

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #191 on: July 16, 2017, 12:22:05 PM »
After all the huffing and puffing there is only one Division 3 team in the last 12,  namely Armagh . And Armagh is hardly a disadvantaged county football-wise.
The qualifiers favour the bigger teams.
It is great to see Carlow getting a run but for every Carlow there are maybe 10 counties who did nothing. Such as Laois.

The top table is a closed shop. Outside of Ulster nobody has broken into it since Offaly 50 years ago. It is not easy to see how to fix it, especially given that everyone wants to be in the same competition.

No amount of championship restructuring is going to improve standards, investment in coaching and team preparation is all that will do that.
Fair funding and support for high standard coaching would be required for that. The qualifiers are pretty useless in terms of developing weaker counties.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

From the Bunker

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #192 on: July 16, 2017, 01:45:15 PM »
The super 8 will create a second tier so there is no need to worry about it. It's already here in another guise. There is now a first tier and the rest can just go whistle. Sky are happy, Dublin football will be happy, the coffers in headquarters in Croker will be happy.

stevecw

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #193 on: July 18, 2017, 10:51:36 PM »
No way, nothing can beat the feeling of still being part of the main championship deep into July. Last Saturday night even for me was unforgettable, never mind all the young kids who filled Dr Cullen Park at half time in their Carlow & Monaghan jerseys to play their games.
We got a home game, live on tv against a Div 1 side. All week in Carlow there was flags everywhere, out of cars, it was all that people were talking about. Thousands came to support Carlow, instead of the usual 150 of us!

We gave it a good go, and even led with 10 mins left, but sadly the energy and their stronger bench won the day. But by jesus we had them very worried. It was even after the game on the pitch with the players that said it all, they were in bits, felt they had it there for the taking. One of the guys who missed a great goal chance was hardly able to talk.
Most of the players were signing autographs, getting selfies...the teenagers and kids look up to them as heroes now. All those youngsters want to be Brendan Murphy, Sean Gannon, Paul Broderick, Sean Murphy etc.....
It's great  for the future of Carlow football. The Cul camps are sold out for 1st time ever.

If we were stuck in some B championship nobody would care less. A B championship would kill off a county like us.

dublin7

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #194 on: July 18, 2017, 11:09:34 PM »
No way, nothing can beat the feeling of still being part of the main championship deep into July. Last Saturday night even for me was unforgettable, never mind all the young kids who filled Dr Cullen Park at half time in their Carlow & Monaghan jerseys to play their games.
We got a home game, live on tv against a Div 1 side. All week in Carlow there was flags everywhere, out of cars, it was all that people were talking about. Thousands came to support Carlow, instead of the usual 150 of us!

We gave it a good go, and even led with 10 mins left, but sadly the energy and their stronger bench won the day. But by jesus we had them very worried. It was even after the game on the pitch with the players that said it all, they were in bits, felt they had it there for the taking. One of the guys who missed a great goal chance was hardly able to talk.
Most of the players were signing autographs, getting selfies...the teenagers and kids look up to them as heroes now. All those youngsters want to be Brendan Murphy, Sean Gannon, Paul Broderick, Sean Murphy etc.....
It's great  for the future of Carlow football. The Cul camps are sold out for 1st time ever.

If we were stuck in some B championship nobody would care less. A B championship would kill off a county like us.

Carlow got that far by beating teams of their own standard. If teams get 4/5 games every summer it would lead to increased interest and improvements in standards. The "B" championship was poorly organised and treated as a joke by croke park. This insistence on calling it a potential "B" championship doesn't help. If a new trophy was commissioned and called Kevin Heffernan cup for example, finals played in croke park together with All Ireland semi final and earlier rounds televised and marketed I think it would be a success