Poll

Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
54 (49.1%)
No
48 (43.6%)
Undecided
8 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 110

Author Topic: Would you be in favour of a second tier?  (Read 5326 times)

sligoman2

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Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM »
I honestly think it's time to give this another thought.  The reality is that the All-Ireland will probably be won by one of four teams.  For the rest of us it's just a matter of how far we can go.  It's not if but when we will be beaten.  I have to admit I was no big fan of the Tommy Murphy cup but I'm beginning to think that once division 3 and 4 teams are beaten, (before a certain date) they should play in a b championship with the winners and runners up rejoining the championship at the quarter final stages (or the runner up joining one stage earlier).  It's time for the combine harvesters to be racing against tractors or JCB's.
I know a lot of the managers are not a big fan of this but I think in time they might warm to it.  The chance to be competitive and win something could eventually swing the pendelum.
I put up a poll to see what the appetite is.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 06:12:46 PM by sligoman2 »
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

FermGael

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 12:58:10 PM »
I look at the complete mess that the Gaa has made of the tiered hurling championship and that makes me have to say no.
Look at the Christy Ring final this year.  The hurling secondary tier competition.
Was not covered live on any of the national TV stations.
Vey little coverage in the media.
And all finished up by the end of June.
A secondary football competition would be given lip service for a year or two and then would slowly be let fade away into insignificance.  That's what has happened time and time again with "b" championships. 
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AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 01:02:06 PM »
RTE interviewed 10 'lower tier' managers about it, and only the Longford manager seemed strongly in favour of a B championship. The rest either didn't want it at all, or wanted it as a 'losers competition' for teams beaten early in the championship.

sligoman2

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 01:06:16 PM »
I share your concerns around media coverage and that is something the gaa should address by ensuring games get broadcast.  The chance to re-enter the championship might reduce the lip service factor.  Fermanagh would have a good shot at winning a div3/4 competition next year.  I know I'd rather watch sligo v Fermanagh than Dublin v westmeath
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Tubberman

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 01:07:35 PM »
If the secondary competition winner was awarded a 3rd or 4th round qualifier spot, I think there may be more of an appetite for it.
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Esmarelda

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 02:02:56 PM »
Give this another thought? Has it been far away from many GAA fans for the last couple of years?

The question, in my opinion, is too simplistic. Is two tiers enough? Is there much point putting London in the same competition as Armagh?

It's funny to hear Brolly saying that it work if enough respect and attention was given to it. He's the very fella that wouldn't give it two minutes of his time.

I think it would probably fail because most stakeholders would have an apathetic view on it. Maybe with time that would change but at the minute I think (guess) that the majority of GAA people would prefer that their own county remains in the hunt for Sam. The media and the neutral TV viewer are the only groups that would differ, in my opinion.

AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 02:05:12 PM »
And I actually think this years championship has been decent so far. A couple of horror shows, but in general decent games and close and exciting.


Blowitupref

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 02:09:55 PM »
More to a cup competition than who can win it. The underdog stories like Down winning against the odds v Monaghan last Saturday or Tipp reaching AI semi final last year is what is makes this competition a bit special.



« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 02:22:23 PM by Blowitupref »
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joemamas

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 02:11:48 PM »
And I actually think this years championship has been decent so far. A couple of horror shows, but in general decent games and close and exciting.

Fair point but it does not hide the gap (at the moment) between the top 12 and the rest.
Would the winners and runners up of  "B" having a play in game to the Q/finals not be a better option. At least the teams in question would have three or four wins under their belt at that stage, rather than the one and done the majority of them face right now.

AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 02:13:33 PM »
I just feel a lot of the noise (not including people on here who have genuine long held beliefs about structures) about the Championship and tiers etc, is being made by pundits and media people who would much prefer to fill columns or minutes with chat about Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo and whoever else happens to be riding the crest of a wave at that time. They just do not want to be talking about Sligo, Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow, Laois or anyone else even in the middle tier, never mind Waterford, Leitrim and London. At this moment in time, the grumbling is at a crescendo because they have to preview/review a game like last Sunday, and also qualifiers involving teams that they don't really care about.

Maybe I'm an auld cynic, but I think that if a tiered competition came in, the games would get the same coverage as the hurling tiered competitions do.

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 02:21:43 PM »
I think a better way of looking a t it would be to have staged entry into the one competition depending on league standings.

so div 3& 4 enter at round 1, the winners play the div 2 teams in round 2, the winners of that play the div 1 teams in round 3 .

This would be similar to the way the FA cup is structured with the Premier league teams coming in at the 3rd round stage.

This would give every county in Ireland the opportunity to play in the Sam Maguire competition, and return us to the proper knockout format we used to have.

The main stumbling block will be the resistance to separate the all Ireland from the provincial competitions.

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rosnarun

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 02:22:55 PM »
I just feel a lot of the noise (not including people on here who have genuine long held beliefs about structures) about the Championship and tiers etc, is being made by pundits and media people who would much prefer to fill columns or minutes with chat about Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo and whoever else happens to be riding the crest of a wave at that time. They just do not want to be talking about Sligo, Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow, Laois or anyone else even in the middle tier, never mind Waterford, Leitrim and London. At this moment in time, the grumbling is at a crescendo because they have to preview/review a game like last Sunday, and also qualifiers involving teams that they don't really care about.

Maybe I'm an auld cynic, but I think that if a tiered competition came in, the games would get the same coverage as the hurling tiered competitions do.

I was at the offaly V Cavan game last night and came away feeling bad for offaly . its very hard to build a  system with only a few games a years they have several excellent players but who knows how many of them will be there next summer and maybe even a new manager so they have no time to build they could definitely benefit from a secondary competition esp with a round robin element  . A not so super 8 if you like.
one incentive id like to see is a way back into the A system to keep every one interested.

Im sure TG4 would love to cover it
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Owen Brannigan

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 02:31:47 PM »
There is little appetite for a B or C competition despite all of the logic in favour of it.  Counties want to have a go every year.

A better approach would be to seed the competition according to league position and give the lower division teams a chance to compete with each other and in their provinces before the higher divisions joins the competition.  The bottom 16 could be reduced to 4 teams. Teams would still get 2 meaningful knockout games as present.

This gives a knockout competition to lower division teams with the chance of those surviving the next rounds a chance to giant kill.  It would remove the qualifiers and have the provincial competitions as secondary to the AI competition with only winers making it through to a final 8 knockout competition.

Unfortunately, this will never fly with those wanting to milk the spectators with the super 8 games which show who the GAA management are really interested in.

Fuzzman

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 02:34:24 PM »
Dublin and Kerry are the two teams who year after year waltz through their province virtually unchallenged.

Mayo looked like they were dominating Connacht for a while there but Galway and maybe Roscommon have ended that run again.
Donegal and Monaghan were controlling Ulster for a good while there but would have thought Down and Tyrone would contest this year's final.

Leinster is just awful to watch every year when the Dubs play anyone.
Maybe if the top 4 teams in Div 1 go through to the quarterfinals and opt out of their province it would make winning your province a lot more possible for many counties.

AZOffaly

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Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 02:37:01 PM »
Dublin and Kerry are the two teams who year after year waltz through their province virtually unchallenged.

Mayo looked like they were dominating Connacht for a while there but Galway and maybe Roscommon have ended that run again.
Donegal and Monaghan were controlling Ulster for a good while there but would have thought Down and Tyrone would contest this year's final.

Leinster is just awful to watch every year when the Dubs play anyone.
Maybe if the top 4 teams in Div 1 go through to the quarterfinals and opt out of their province it would make winning your province a lot more possible for many counties.

Leinster is actually decent to watch when the Dubs aren't playing :)