Irish Business Thread

[Tony Baloney]

Couple of worrying stories for NI Business in the news at the minute. You wonder is this the tip of the Brexit iceberg with businesses with long lead time on their products/services starting to find order books tapering down.


TfL supplier Wrightbus weighs sale amid financial downturn

https://news.sky.com/story/tfl-supplier-wrightbus-weighs-sale-amid-financial-downturn-11768855


Growing concerns for Harland and Wolff Belfast shipyard

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49073445

H&W not unexpected given the parent was in difficulty and the sector but Wrightbus is a surprise. Always held up as one of NI  manufacturing great success stories

H&W only employs 130 people. There's a massive requirement for people who work in Engineering firms so I'd imagine they'll get picked up pretty quickly.
Wrightbus is a strange one. Did they not have massive building plans in for housing, a Church and shops etc as part of a factory extension? I'd imagine they've fairly good contracts and will be attractive enough to investors / buyers.

I think what you are referring to is "Green Pastures" which a big facility on the outskirts of Ballymena you see if you are lucky enough to be bypassing the town heading north. The main building appears to be up but not sure if it is fitted out. It certainly seems to have stalled a bit.

[north_antrim_hound]

The wrights bus news will be of no surprise to the business community around Ballymena. Management and promotion structures where always dependent on religious orientation and nothing to do with ability. The place is so dysfunctional that most workers are very low on morale and hate the place. The government funding this last few year has been ridiculous. Maybe a sale to an outside investor who might bring some manufacturing competence with them might save it. A lot of good people on the ground with great expertise in this sector.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Couple of worrying stories for NI Business in the news at the minute. You wonder is this the tip of the Brexit iceberg with businesses with long lead time on their products/services starting to find order books tapering down.


TfL supplier Wrightbus weighs sale amid financial downturn

https://news.sky.com/story/tfl-supplier-wrightbus-weighs-sale-amid-financial-downturn-11768855


Growing concerns for Harland and Wolff Belfast shipyard

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49073445

H&W not unexpected given the parent was in difficulty and the sector but Wrightbus is a surprise. Always held up as one of NI  manufacturing great success stories

H&W only employs 130 people. There's a massive requirement for people who work in Engineering firms so I'd imagine they'll get picked up pretty quickly.
Wrightbus is a strange one. Did they not have massive building plans in for housing, a Church and shops etc as part of a factory extension? I'd imagine they've fairly good contracts and will be attractive enough to investors / buyers.

I think what you are referring to is "Green Pastures" which a big facility on the outskirts of Ballymena you see if you are lucky enough to be bypassing the town heading north. The main building appears to be up but not sure if it is fitted out. It certainly seems to have stalled a bit.

They had planned to build their own town basically (Church, school shops, residential area) ,however alot of the planning was refused by Ballymena council. I actually thought they were recently awarded a contract to build Hydrogen Buses for London so things must be bad in the background.

[TabClear]

And another


Linwoods is closing its Armagh bakery in a move that will see 70 people lose their jobs.

It says it comes in response to "a significant and long-term decline in market demand" depressing margins.

The company has 140 employees in Northern Ireland across two sites in County Armagh.

The family business was set up 60 years ago and in 2002 it added health foods to its business. Linwoods Health Foods will not be affected.

John Woods, joint managing director, said: "This is a sad day for the company as we let go of one of the cornerstones of our business, which has been integral to building the Linwoods' brand."

"Our bakery team has worked incredibly hard and we have explored all possible options to avoid these job losses. This decision has not been taken lightly."

The company plans to continue to run the bakery until mid-October.[/i]

[Tony Baloney]

Linwoods isn't big enough to take on the quid for a pan loaf market. They are only making money in their healthfoods arm.

[Smokin Joe]

This is a fairly damning line from the Wrightbus story:
"It is unclear what the prospects are for Wright Group unless it can secure new financial backing."

That's a sad situation given their level of employment in the area, regardless of your thoughts on how dysfunctional you think they may be as a modern business in a global economy.

[Tony Baloney]

It made £5 million pre-tax on £181 million turnover in 2017, which isn't great and it seems their fortunes have dipped since then.

[TabClear]

It made £5 million pre-tax on £181 million turnover in 2017, which isn't great and it seems their fortunes have dipped since then.

Profit is one thing but how much cash were they burning? Haven't looked at their accounts but I would imagine it's quite a capex intensive business which could easily put them in negative cash flow territory. This could cause problems over an extended period regardless of profit levels. If they have decent order pipeline they should be able to secure funding but existing shareholders might have to give up control which could mean big cultural changes going forward.

[Milltown Row2]

Harlands is prime dockland, it will be bought over by developers. Sad to see such a huge historical manufacturing company close. When you can't compete with rest you'll close!

[Eamonnca1]

Harlands is prime dockland, it will be bought over by developers. Sad to see such a huge historical manufacturing company close. When you can't compete with rest you'll close!

Don't they still build cruise ships on the continent? H&W should have been able to stay in that market, but to their credit they diversified into other engineering and renewable energy work. I thought foreign ownership would have strengthened them, but I have to wonder if the culture in there ever really changed. A friend of mine once told me about some lad that got a job painting cabins in the Canberra when she was being built. On his first day he completed a cabin, and one of the 'hats' came along and warned him to slow down. He was making the others look bad.

[trueblue1234]

It made £5 million pre-tax on £181 million turnover in 2017, which isn't great and it seems their fortunes have dipped since then.

Profit is one thing but how much cash were they burning? Haven't looked at their accounts but I would imagine it's quite a capex intensive business which could easily put them in negative cash flow territory. This could cause problems over an extended period regardless of profit levels. If they have decent order pipeline they should be able to secure funding but existing shareholders might have to give up control which could mean big cultural changes going forward.

Heard they had an issue with an order that they manufactured without getting full sign off on the PO. And got hit with it. Whether true or not it's worrying times for the area. Especially on the back of Michelin and JTI over the last few years. 

[Eamonnca1]

It made £5 million pre-tax on £181 million turnover in 2017, which isn't great and it seems their fortunes have dipped since then.

Profit is one thing but how much cash were they burning? Haven't looked at their accounts but I would imagine it's quite a capex intensive business which could easily put them in negative cash flow territory. This could cause problems over an extended period regardless of profit levels. If they have decent order pipeline they should be able to secure funding but existing shareholders might have to give up control which could mean big cultural changes going forward.

Heard they had an issue with an order that they manufactured without getting full sign off on the PO. And got hit with it. Whether true or not it's worrying times for the area. Especially on the back of Michelin and JTI over the last few years.

Ouch! Big mistake.

[omaghjoe]

Kinda surprising H&W I know shipbuilding has gone to the far East but there was and still is an opportunity for plenty of other Offshore projects

Seems like they restyled their business as contractors instead of going for R&D. Probably went for the quickest short-term fix instead of thinking more long term.

Nationalising the shipyard is Lala land stuff these days tho interestingly America holds onto some key shipyards through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920#U.S._shipbuilding

[Milltown Row2]

Harlands is prime dockland, it will be bought over by developers. Sad to see such a huge historical manufacturing company close. When you can't compete with rest you'll close!

Don't they still build cruise ships on the continent? H&W should have been able to stay in that market, but to their credit they diversified into other engineering and renewable energy work. I thought foreign ownership would have strengthened them, but I have to wonder if the culture in there ever really changed. A friend of mine once told me about some lad that got a job painting cabins in the Canberra when she was being built. On his first day he completed a cabin, and one of the 'hats' came along and warned him to slow down. He was making the others look bad.

I served my apprenticeship in Harlands and yes there was all sorts swinging the lead, but fundamentally they could not compete with the Asian shipbuilding. The cruise ships are built in France and Scandinavia and they do a great job, but once Harlands went down the route of drilling ships and the like it became difficult to dip back into tankers, cargo ships and the roll on off ships. Olsen had his oil rigs that he got refurbished and back into use. More than made his money back after bought the place.

[paddyjohn]

Less said about Wrightbus the better. The funded a 3 mile stretch of lamp posts and telegraph poles full of Union Jacks around Galgorm a few years ago. They paid all the court fees of 40/50 employees who decided to take down Tricolors in Fisherwick in Ballymena a few years ago.